Muscle building & Resting
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As a counterpoint to the above, I'll offer my own experience. I train 6-7 days per week, with quite a few two-a-days. Recovery is vastly overstated for new trainees. In the early running, your CNS just isn't capable of pushing your muscles to the point where any real damage is incurred.
My lifts are still increasing. My bodyweight is up. My calipers and tape haven't changed much. I'll spare the details for now, but basically, let your energy in the gym be your guide, as opposed to spending days sitting on your *kitten*, that would be of more use spent moving poundage. I'd look at the programs as a bare minimum. Add in other stuff as desired.0 -
As a newer lifter, as mentioned, would be better to follow a structured lifting program. If you want another workout, some light cardio or yoga in the afternoon/evening would be fine, just need to take calories burned into consideration.0
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casandra_zamarripa wrote: »No specific program I just work with weights and eat healthy These pics are from me gym sessions (some of the things I'm doing)
you need to identify a structured lifting program and stick with that for three to four months...
training twice a day is going to be massive over kill ...so now sure how you say that you understand you need rest, and then go on to say you are going to train twice a day, six days a week. IMO that is recipe for burnout.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »As a counterpoint to the above, I'll offer my own experience. I train 6-7 days per week, with quite a few two-a-days. Recovery is vastly overstated for new trainees. In the early running, your CNS just isn't capable of pushing your muscles to the point where any real damage is incurred.
My lifts are still increasing. My bodyweight is up. My calipers and tape haven't changed much. I'll spare the details for now, but basically, let your energy in the gym be your guide, as opposed to spending days sitting on your *kitten*, that would be of more use spent moving poundage. I'd look at the programs as a bare minimum. Add in other stuff as desired.
Sure, I did that right up until the time I screwed up my shoulder. Sometimes just feeling your way is going to put you in the wrong space. Recovery isn't vastly overstated, it's actually understated and when you burn out, and you will unless you are on something, you'll understand what the rest of us have already figured out the hard way.
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I would suggest heading over to bodybuilding.com It has a place for everyone, start here - http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/find-a-plan.html0
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »As a counterpoint to the above, I'll offer my own experience. I train 6-7 days per week, with quite a few two-a-days. Recovery is vastly overstated for new trainees. In the early running, your CNS just isn't capable of pushing your muscles to the point where any real damage is incurred.
My lifts are still increasing. My bodyweight is up. My calipers and tape haven't changed much. I'll spare the details for now, but basically, let your energy in the gym be your guide, as opposed to spending days sitting on your *kitten*, that would be of more use spent moving poundage. I'd look at the programs as a bare minimum. Add in other stuff as desired.
Sure, I did that right up until the time I screwed up my shoulder. Sometimes just feeling your way is going to put you in the wrong space. Recovery isn't vastly overstated, it's actually understated and when you burn out, and you will unless you are on something, you'll understand what the rest of us have already figured out the hard way.
This isn't my first trip through, though it's been several years since I picked up anything heavier than my PC tower. I did the same thing the first time. I did get injured, twice, and I trained around it, doing other stuff that avoided the wounded bodypart. What drove me out of the gym the first time wasn't injury, burnout, or "overtraining". It was a collapsing marriage, lack of funds, and several other things all at once. So unless the same thing happens again (not remarried, and live in a different area, so not likely), no it won't happen.
As for your comment about being on something: define something. Last I checked, some of the oldest performance enhancers in the world are used on a nearly daily basis by huge swaths of the population. It just so happens that most of them don't exactly focus on physical training anymore, while using them.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »As a counterpoint to the above, I'll offer my own experience. I train 6-7 days per week, with quite a few two-a-days. Recovery is vastly overstated for new trainees. In the early running, your CNS just isn't capable of pushing your muscles to the point where any real damage is incurred.
My lifts are still increasing. My bodyweight is up. My calipers and tape haven't changed much. I'll spare the details for now, but basically, let your energy in the gym be your guide, as opposed to spending days sitting on your *kitten*, that would be of more use spent moving poundage. I'd look at the programs as a bare minimum. Add in other stuff as desired.
Sure, I did that right up until the time I screwed up my shoulder. Sometimes just feeling your way is going to put you in the wrong space. Recovery isn't vastly overstated, it's actually understated and when you burn out, and you will unless you are on something, you'll understand what the rest of us have already figured out the hard way.
This isn't my first trip through, though it's been several years since I picked up anything heavier than my PC tower. I did the same thing the first time. I did get injured, twice, and I trained around it, doing other stuff that avoided the wounded bodypart. What drove me out of the gym the first time wasn't injury, burnout, or "overtraining". It was a collapsing marriage, lack of funds, and several other things all at once. So unless the same thing happens again (not remarried, and live in a different area, so not likely), no it won't happen.
As for your comment about being on something: define something. Last I checked, some of the oldest performance enhancers in the world are used on a nearly daily basis by huge swaths of the population. It just so happens that most of them don't exactly focus on physical training anymore, while using them.
If I have to define gear for you then you missed the point (no I wasn't talking about caffeine). As for your injuries, you don't think that had something to do with obsessive overtraining? I've been lifting before you could lift your head (oh god I hate admitting that!) and I've seen a ton of people come and go who were completely gung-ho and guess where they are now. Where will you be in 5 years let alone 15 years if you let yourself get injured while you are still very young. You might blame your last break completely on circumstances but if you had the motivation you would have found a way and we both understand that since I've been there too.
I'm not criticising your enthusium, it's very admirable but you have to understand that lifting heavy accumulates stress on every part of you both physically and mentally. Overtraining is not a myth and it shows up first on the emotional and mental dimensions as your CNS and PNS get over taxed and this can lead to burn out. If you are willing to take that risk for yourself then fine but please don't push that on others.2 -
I think you missed my point. I realize that rest and recovery can become extremely important, however that tends to come later, when people are actually pushing poundages that stress their body and CNS. You may have forgotten what it was like to be either new or completely detrained, but new lifters, while they may encounter DOMS that will make them think they are dying, are barely inducing any real trauma on their bodies.
As for my injuries: they had nothing to do with training too much. They had to do with being stupid, which I will freely admit. The first was my letting the stupid ATG squat garbage get in my head, and putting myself in a poorly balanced position to try and hit farther below parallel than is ever necessary. I tipped over with 315 on my shoulders, twisted my ankle, smashed my hand in the rack, laid there laughing like an idiot, then got up and finished my squats on my twisted ankle, but without trying that stupid "depth pride" *kitten* again.
The second was doing some retarded dumbbell swing *kitten* that I had read about, and *kitten* my shoulder up for about a month. Both of those taught me something valueable: most people on lifting forums are retarded, and should not be trusted any further than their sanctioned total reaches. Heh.
ETA: anyway, my point is that a lot of people appear to quit really early, not due to discomfort or hurting themselves, but because they aren't seeing tangible results. This is ridiculous on a couple of levels. Mainly though, those early days are the greatest gains one can ever hope to see, so I'd always recommend the new lifter ride those newbie gains as hard as they possibly can. Eat well, pick up heavy *kitten* as often as they possibly can, and just go hard as *kitten* for the first couple of months at least. If nothing else, it will maximize what they accomplish in the shortest period of time, and just might prevent some new lifters from bailing out due to slow progress.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I think you missed my point. I realize that rest and recovery can become extremely important, however that tends to come later, when people are actually pushing poundages that stress their body and CNS. You may have forgotten what it was like to be either new or completely detrained, but new lifters, while they may encounter DOMS that will make them think they are dying, are barely inducing any real trauma on their bodies.
As for my injuries: they had nothing to do with training too much. They had to do with being stupid, which I will freely admit. The first was my letting the stupid ATG squat garbage get in my head, and putting myself in a poorly balanced position to try and hit farther below parallel than is ever necessary. I tipped over with 315 on my shoulders, twisted my ankle, smashed my hand in the rack, laid there laughing like an idiot, then got up and finished my squats on my twisted ankle, but without trying that stupid "depth pride" *kitten* again.
The second was doing some retarded dumbbell swing *kitten* that I had read about, and *kitten* my shoulder up for about a month. Both of those taught me something valueable: most people on lifting forums are retarded, and should not be trusted any further than their sanctioned total reaches. Heh.
ETA: anyway, my point is that a lot of people appear to quit really early, not due to discomfort or hurting themselves, but because they aren't seeing tangible results. This is ridiculous on a couple of levels. Mainly though, those early days are the greatest gains one can ever hope to see, so I'd always recommend the new lifter ride those newbie gains as hard as they possibly can. Eat well, pick up heavy *kitten* as often as they possibly can, and just go hard as *kitten* for the first couple of months at least. If nothing else, it will maximize what they accomplish in the shortest period of time, and just might prevent some new lifters from bailing out due to slow progress.
Yeah the first case of serious DOMS will make anyone think they might have really done some damage even though it's just that they aren't used to the exercise so caused more trauma to their muscles than they should be and they aren't used to them either. As for riding newbie gains, they will be there based on capacity and not time so there is no need to kill yourself. In fact, the untrained need more rest than the trained. For fastest result frequency training is highly recommended for beginners and this means training the muscle groups every 48 to 72 hours but going to frequently will actually decrease growth due to build up of cortisol and epinephrine. This is my concern for new lifters since lifting stress can be harder on them due to their bodies not being adapted like trained individuals who can handle stress more easily.
Sorry about your injuries, but you definitely learn from those.
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What did you do on the calories increase per this discussion?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/37563372#Comment_37563372
We can't arbitrarily tell you how many calories to bulk.. You can do a clean or dirty. Since fat gain is inevitably an issue for you, so the clean bulk (200 - 250)? If you truly truly want to build muscle as a woman, have to take the good with the bad and the bad is fat gain its gonna happen. The good, a structured lifting program and not a homemade one is gonna allow you to reap results.
If you can't get past fat gain and you want some slower progress, recomp at maintenance calories. You still need a structured lifting program.
And a structured lifting program is not gonna have you working out 2 times a day 6 days a week. There really is no need for this type of working out. I could go on about how unnecessary it is and what you will potentially do to your body, hormones etc.. but no need to.
edited to add: you need to rest. if not for muscle building, you need to rest for both your mind and body.. there is nothing like burnout and 2 times a day? burnout and injury is possible.0 -
What did you do on the calories increase per this discussion?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/37563372#Comment_37563372
We can't arbitrarily tell you how many calories to bulk.. You can do a clean or dirty. Since fat gain is inevitably an issue for you, so the clean bulk (200 - 250)? If you truly truly want to build muscle as a woman, have to take the good with the bad and the bad is fat gain its gonna happen. The good, a structured lifting program and not a homemade one is gonna allow you to reap results.
If you can't get past fat gain and you want some slower progress, recomp at maintenance calories. You still need a structured lifting program.
And a structured lifting program is not gonna have you working out 2 times a day 6 days a week. There really is no need for this type of working out. I could go on about how unnecessary it is and what you will potentially do to your body, hormones etc.. but no need to.
Yeah, if I went into everything about stress response I'd be rehashing my neuroscience thesis again and that's pain I don't need lol!
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The main thing you're going to do by increasing your workouts that much is increase your hunger, fatigue, and chance for injury. Do not recommend.0
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