Finding it hard to cut caloric intake any more
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peacelovestone wrote: »peacelovestone wrote: »OP, in addition to your calorie target, do you have MINIMUMS for fat, fiber and protein that you aim to consume every day?
Yes, I don't seem to have a problem hitting fats lol although my minimum is set at 25% of caloric intake; but my minimum for fiber is 25g and I usually am above it, and my target for protein is 115g (1g/lb lean body mass) and I don't always hit it but I am also more often above it, near 130g, and I won't be satisfied if I'm not hitting over 90g.
Your minimums sound really good to me. Otherwise I would suggesting increasing one or several. I'm not sure more fat (you eat 50-55g daily now?) would make a noticeable difference. It sounds like you're doing great, and .5/week loss is right on track. I.e. Faster loss would set you back wrt lean mass.
That's what my husband said. That I might be losing slow, but it's all fat and my body is recompositioning instead of losing muscle + fat. I am feeling the pressure though to get smaller for a wedding that I am the matron of honor in. It's a ways away but the rate I'm losing I feel like I won't be where I'd like to by then. I do like the way I look though as I'm losing weight and I've actually managed to gain muscle mass in a deficit which most people say is impossible, but it's happened.
That's awesome. Really, keep on keeping on. Don't change it up. You will only make more work for yourself, and add more time, in the long run if you cut harder now and lose muscle. Then you will think about a bulk + slow cut (again). You'll get to the end you want FASTER by staying on the course you are on now. IMHO.
Thank you so much. I know you're right. Sometimes I'm impatient
but I do want lasting sustainable results and I'm all for less work lol! I need to stop being so focused on the scale. I am glad I came to this forum! 2 -
I know you said you eat 6 times a day--have you tried intermittent fasting? It's not as difficult as it sounds. There are different methods, but I pretty much follow a pattern of 14hr fast, 10 hr eating window, or sometimes 16 hr fast, 8 hr eating window. I wake up and have coffee (with maybe a small square of dark chocolate), then eat my first meal at 1pm (450 cal), then a snack around 4:30 or 5 (250 cal), then dinner at 7 or so (600 cal). One beer or a little wine after dinner with my hubby usually happens as well (150 cal). I've found this to be a great way to condense my calorie intake into a shorter block of time, so that my meals and snack are more satisfying. I don't find the morning to be very difficult without food. If I do happen to eat breakfast in the morning, it fires up my appetite and I wind up eating more throughout the day. Not eating at all doesn't make me that hungry, although I'll add that during PMS I do usually need to eat by 11am. Anyway, if you want to reduce your calorie intake but don't want to feel deprived, I suggest you read up on IF and give it a try if you haven't already.
I've also recently discovered how great high protein Greek yogurt is at curbing my appetite. If it's part of my lunch or snack, I find the evening much easier to get through without going over my calorie goal. Good luck!1 -
If you feel like you want to stay at 1800-2000 calories to fuel your workouts, then what about doing a refeed here and there? By this I just mean increasing your daily calories to maintenance or a few hundred over maintenance for one or two days. I've done this twice in the past 5 or so weeks, and it's really helped with my energy levels. Of course, you have to keep it reigned in and not go crazy with it1
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peacelovestone wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »peacelovestone wrote: »peacelovestone wrote: »OP, in addition to your calorie target, do you have MINIMUMS for fat, fiber and protein that you aim to consume every day?
Yes, I don't seem to have a problem hitting fats lol although my minimum is set at 25% of caloric intake; but my minimum for fiber is 25g and I usually am above it, and my target for protein is 115g (1g/lb lean body mass) and I don't always hit it but I am also more often above it, near 130g, and I won't be satisfied if I'm not hitting over 90g.
Your minimums sound really good to me. Otherwise I would suggesting increasing one or several. I'm not sure more fat (you eat 50-55g daily now?) would make a noticeable difference. It sounds like you're doing great, and .5/week loss is right on track. I.e. Faster loss would set you back wrt lean mass.
That's what my husband said. That I might be losing slow, but it's all fat and my body is recompositioning instead of losing muscle + fat. I am feeling the pressure though to get smaller for a wedding that I am the matron of honor in. It's a ways away but the rate I'm losing I feel like I won't be where I'd like to by then. I do like the way I look though as I'm losing weight and I've actually managed to gain muscle mass in a deficit which most people say is impossible, but it's happened.
did you recalculate your calories to what your weight is now? if not do that and set it to lose .5 lbs a week,do that for a few months and see what happens.
Yes, I make sure to recalculate often. My HR monitor syncs with my MFP also, but I do reset MFP often as I lose weight. I am losing 0.5 lb/week and not having a problem with that, I weigh 3 lbs less now than I did 6.5 weeks ago... It seems to be working out fine. It just seems like my body doesn't want to go any lower than that (1800-2000 cals a day). I work out intensely and I'll feel like I'm starving or hangry or dizzy or tired or all of the above when I try to cut more calories, but I sort of wanted to lose a bit quicker for a goal date. I just wondered if there were something I was missing. It seems like maybe where I'm at is a healthy way to lose weight wrt sustainability and muscle mass though from what people have said.
if you are at a healthy weight it will take longer to lose weight. and losing more quickly would not be advisable.you could always eat at maintenance and do whats called a recomp. while its very slow to do a recomp,it will change your body in different ways and you will look smaller at a higher weight and you may possibly gain some muscle(you wont get bulky).1 -
lightenup2016 wrote: »If you feel like you want to stay at 1800-2000 calories to fuel your workouts, then what about doing a refeed here and there? By this I just mean increasing your daily calories to maintenance or a few hundred over maintenance for one or two days. I've done this twice in the past 5 or so weeks, and it's really helped with my energy levels. Of course, you have to keep it reigned in and not go crazy with it
So do IF and lower my cals below 1800-2000 and then do refeeds? Or stay at 1800-2000 and do refeeds?
I feel like I have almost no energy beyond fueling my workouts and doing what I have to do as a mother of 3, it's so strange. I do have to take my kids to two different schools, pick them up, grocery shop, work out, and deal with a 2 year old all day, etc. and my step count is usually around 8k so I'm not like stuck in bed by any means but sometimes I have to choose between dishes or laundry or working out and I choose myself right now. But you'd think I'd have more energy! I just feel so drained every day.0 -
peacelovestone wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »If you feel like you want to stay at 1800-2000 calories to fuel your workouts, then what about doing a refeed here and there? By this I just mean increasing your daily calories to maintenance or a few hundred over maintenance for one or two days. I've done this twice in the past 5 or so weeks, and it's really helped with my energy levels. Of course, you have to keep it reigned in and not go crazy with it
So do IF and lower my cals below 1800-2000 and then do refeeds? Or stay at 1800-2000 and do refeeds?
I feel like I have almost no energy beyond fueling my workouts and doing what I have to do as a mother of 3, it's so strange. I do have to take my kids to two different schools, pick them up, grocery shop, work out, and deal with a 2 year old all day, etc. and my step count is usually around 8k so I'm not like stuck in bed by any means but sometimes I have to choose between dishes or laundry or working out and I choose myself right now. But you'd think I'd have more energy! I just feel so drained every day.
have you had blood tests done? could be low iron or vitamin D or anything like that causing you to be tired too. not enough sleep? stress?0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »peacelovestone wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »If you feel like you want to stay at 1800-2000 calories to fuel your workouts, then what about doing a refeed here and there? By this I just mean increasing your daily calories to maintenance or a few hundred over maintenance for one or two days. I've done this twice in the past 5 or so weeks, and it's really helped with my energy levels. Of course, you have to keep it reigned in and not go crazy with it
So do IF and lower my cals below 1800-2000 and then do refeeds? Or stay at 1800-2000 and do refeeds?
I feel like I have almost no energy beyond fueling my workouts and doing what I have to do as a mother of 3, it's so strange. I do have to take my kids to two different schools, pick them up, grocery shop, work out, and deal with a 2 year old all day, etc. and my step count is usually around 8k so I'm not like stuck in bed by any means but sometimes I have to choose between dishes or laundry or working out and I choose myself right now. But you'd think I'd have more energy! I just feel so drained every day.
have you had blood tests done? could be low iron or vitamin D or anything like that causing you to be tired too. not enough sleep? stress?
I haven't. I wish we could afford it! Sometimes I wonder if I have sleep apnea though. My tracker says I'm restless like 20x a night and that I lose an hour of sleep. I wake up at least 2-4 times fully that I catch myself waking up or I actually get up to go to the restroom. My gma has sleep apnea and used to use a CPAP and my mom has obstructive sleep apnea... I know it can make you feel tired even though you sleep a normal amount of hours. I sleep an average of 7.5 hours and I haven't felt stressed in a long time even though I used to be a very high strung, anxious person, now I'm pretty relaxed -- my kids are older than when I felt like that and 2 are in school, and I work out a lot which helps relieve any tension. Plus having three kids has made me chill out, not much is a big deal anymore I've learned haha
I wish I knew why I felt like that though! Some of my friends say it's just having three kids, but I feel like it's more. It's been going on for years though, so it must not be my intake, because that's varied over the years. I've started to fall asleep while on the highway if I drove too many exits away for a school commute or an appt...I thought I had narcolepsy it was so bad! Sometimes I have pulled over just to sleep.0 -
peacelovestone wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »peacelovestone wrote: »lightenup2016 wrote: »If you feel like you want to stay at 1800-2000 calories to fuel your workouts, then what about doing a refeed here and there? By this I just mean increasing your daily calories to maintenance or a few hundred over maintenance for one or two days. I've done this twice in the past 5 or so weeks, and it's really helped with my energy levels. Of course, you have to keep it reigned in and not go crazy with it
So do IF and lower my cals below 1800-2000 and then do refeeds? Or stay at 1800-2000 and do refeeds?
I feel like I have almost no energy beyond fueling my workouts and doing what I have to do as a mother of 3, it's so strange. I do have to take my kids to two different schools, pick them up, grocery shop, work out, and deal with a 2 year old all day, etc. and my step count is usually around 8k so I'm not like stuck in bed by any means but sometimes I have to choose between dishes or laundry or working out and I choose myself right now. But you'd think I'd have more energy! I just feel so drained every day.
have you had blood tests done? could be low iron or vitamin D or anything like that causing you to be tired too. not enough sleep? stress?
I haven't. I wish we could afford it! Sometimes I wonder if I have sleep apnea though. My tracker says I'm restless like 20x a night and that I lose an hour of sleep. I wake up at least 2-4 times fully that I catch myself waking up or I actually get up to go to the restroom. My gma has sleep apnea and used to use a CPAP and my mom has obstructive sleep apnea... I know it can make you feel tired even though you sleep a normal amount of hours. I sleep an average of 7.5 hours and I haven't felt stressed in a long time even though I used to be a very high strung, anxious person, now I'm pretty relaxed -- my kids are older than when I felt like that and 2 are in school, and I work out a lot which helps relieve any tension. Plus having three kids has made me chill out, not much is a big deal anymore I've learned haha
I wish I knew why I felt like that though! Some of my friends say it's just having three kids, but I feel like it's more. It's been going on for years though, so it must not be my intake, because that's varied over the years. I've started to fall asleep while on the highway if I drove too many exits away for a school commute or an appt...I thought I had narcolepsy it was so bad! Sometimes I have pulled over just to sleep.
yeah somehow you need to get those things checked.2 -
So do IF and lower my cals below 1800-2000 and then do refeeds? Or stay at 1800-2000 and do refeeds?
I feel like I have almost no energy beyond fueling my workouts and doing what I have to do as a mother of 3, it's so strange. I do have to take my kids to two different schools, pick them up, grocery shop, work out, and deal with a 2 year old all day, etc. and my step count is usually around 8k so I'm not like stuck in bed by any means but sometimes I have to choose between dishes or laundry or working out and I choose myself right now. But you'd think I'd have more energy! I just feel so drained every day.[/quote]
I guess it depends--at first I meant try IF if you really think you want to try lowering your calorie intake. But if you're already feeling wiped out at your current intake and exercise level, you might want to stay at your current intake but try the refeeds for better energy.
We have a lot of things in common--I also have 3 kiddos, although mine are ages 10, 7, and 5, so things are getting a bit easier now! My TDEE seems to be about 2300, and I've been eating around 1800 calories, losing a lb or so per week. Recently I've been really tired and not feeling up to my workouts, so I did the refeed over the weekend and it seemed to help with my energy level. But that could be short lived--I can't really tell yet. I also don't get enough sleep.
As for IF, I believe it can help you feel fuller and more satisfied at mealtime compared to the usual 3 meals and 2-3 snacks, no matter what your calorie intake level. Who wants a 100 calorie snack?? Mine are 250 and plenty filling. Also, no breakfast means one more meal I don't have to think about and prepare, and same with no morning snack.1 -
@peacelovestone: Checked out your Instagram. Your progress is stellar and you have a lot to be proud of! Now it's a matter of tweaking, seeing what works for you (sometimes frustrating) and finding a structured program that fits.
Cutting calories might work... but I don't know that cutting calories is always THE approach for further fat loss. It seems-ballparking here with your workouts of choice-- your net calorie intake is 1400ish. You don't have a lot to drop away and if you've been going at 1800 for some time, there comes a time of homeostasis. Others may disagree with the whole theory but I've seen too many level out, add calories and begin losing again. That's not to say it's the answer- just something to consider as you dial in your progress. Less can be, but definitely isn't always, more.
At worst, you could play around with both and see where your measurements take you.1 -
Hi OP: this is essentially a post saying stay the course!
You said that you secretly believe you've increased lean mass even at a deficit. While the consensus is that this is not possible, should it be the reality of what is happening, it would mean that you actual caloric deficit is significantly larger than what your rate of weight loss implies.
Hence your hunger.
And hence your not being able to optimise other than by counter-productively increasing the deficit, or by giving up on fitness in favour of increased weight loss--which would also be counter-productive!
In support of this possibility I supply:
--one dexa scan, name redacted, furnished by the operator who performed it, with the permission of the female who lost 21lbs while gaining 9lbs of lean mass over a period of 3 months: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ivy2PKgcqcUFRJbHJ6UWZKXzZJelVMYkpPcUc4a0RFalQ4/view?usp=sharing
--and this interesting article I bookmarked a while back: http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
The number on the scale is NOT the ONLY data point.3 -
Ok, a lot to take in and answer, but I am glad I came to this forum! So, as for @lightenup2016 we seem to be so similar! My kiddos are almost 6, one is 4, and the baby is 2 though. So I have a lot on my hands lol. But my TDEE is very similar as well. Using Fitbit's data, my TDEE over the last month is 2396 with 29 days of data averaged. According to Scooby's "Most Accurate Calorie Calculator" or whatever it's called, it should be just over 2300. Anyways, I know what you are saying about IF. I used to practice it after I stopped eating "keto," I naturally fell into it, and I'm not much of a breakfast person anyways. But I stopped doing it because I found that when I worked out in the mornings, which I try to do more often than not so that my brain doesn't say "No, I don't want to work out!" lol, I would feel lightheaded and not be able to push as hard if I did them fasted. But I do agree it was harder to "go over" what I wanted to eat/easier to condense my intake into 2 meals and 2 snacks vs. 3 meals & 3 snacks. Do you know anything to address that issue of fasted workouts if I attempt IF again?
As for @Dano74, I should have been more clear about my intake. So, I eat within a range. I wouldn't say I follow intuitive eating, but I listen to my body, and some days, like say I push really hard that day and did a brutal weights session, I might feel really hungry that night or the next day and I eat more, and others I just don't feel like my body needs as much, so some days I eat less and others more, like caloric cycling, but I eat within a range of 1800-2000 and I always hit at least a certain target for fiber and protein like I said to a PP because I feel that's more important than my intake. Over the week, it averages out that I have a deficit. But whatever this deficit is, my body doesn't want to go lower it feels like. I tried to eat around 1500-1600 and it was awful. I felt awful. Apparently my BMR is 1500. So maybe that's why. Is it dangerous to try eating near that? That's my laying around, couch-potato, intake. Yet I'm far from that, so it feels my body SCREAMS for me to feed it
when I eat like that.
So as for above ^^^ my TDEE averaged at 2396 for a 4 week period according to the data I have. My intake for the same 4-week period averaged at 1950. So my deficit over 4 weeks was ~450/day. I've lost about 3 lbs in that time frame. Seems on target since my loss should have been about 3.5 with that deficit. I'm just not sure what to do from here I guess is what I'm saying. Stay the course, keep doing what I'm doing? Try to cut my intake slowly? Get more stringent with a strict calorie intake day to day instead of cycling? Play around with bringing it up? I've been dieting for about 10-11 months out of a 15 month period and now am in a healthy weight range for my height so it just seems it is getting harder and harder.
Now as to bringing it up, I don't know that it's the answer but about 4 weeks ago, i had plateaued, and I was tired of reading all these articles saying "You're not tracking properly, you're lying to yourself" or "You need to push harder with your workouts" etc. -- I track religiously and am obsessive about getting it right, and I push myself really hard in the gym, changing routines when I'm bored, practicing progressive overload, etc. Two of the personal trainers at my gym joke that I'm a beast lol because I am always there working my butt off and doing burpees for fun and stuff haha. So I found two articles when this happened, one from Jillian Michaels and I forget what the other one was, but they actually said to bring up your intake for a few days or a week and then drop it again, (and there was a lot of scientific reasoning behind it that made sense to me) and you will break it, so I tried it, and I did break it! I mean I'm not sure that it applies now or what I should do right now, I haven't plateaued, just feeling like my weight loss is really slow where I'm at but finding it hard to suffer with eating near my BMR either.0 -
@PAV8888 I love what you posted! I read both and I'm in a similar position to that woman... I've lost a lot of body fat, made lean muscle gains, recomped my body, etc. but my weight loss has been slow. I have close friends that lose way faster than I do and it kills me when they say they lost 20 lbs in 4 months or something; I've lost 27 lbs with about 10 months of tracking and working out hard over a 15 month period (there was 4-5 months where I "gave up" because I plateaued and fell off the wagon, then got back on). I don't ever want to do that again, I was lucky to only gain 4 lbs in that time period -- which I had to then RE-lose -- and from my tracking some days, it should have been more that I gained, but maybe I was reverse dieting and fixing my metabolism because I have lost very steadily since! I wish I could put in a graph here. So maybe it was a welcome break for my body. But I don't want to lose what I've worked so hard for again and fitness helps me in so many ways, from keeping up with my kids, to anxiety. That article was really interesting too. I'll be staying the course for sure. Just trying to figure out how to fine-tune.
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peacelovestone wrote: »I tried to eat around 1500-1600 and it was awful. I felt awful. Apparently my BMR is 1500. So maybe that's why. Is it dangerous to try eating near that? That's my laying around, couch-potato, intake. Yet I'm far from that, so it feels my body SCREAMS for me to feed it when I eat like that.
So as for above ^^^ my TDEE averaged at 2396 for a 4 week period according to the data I have. My intake for the same 4-week period averaged at 1950. So my deficit over 4 weeks was ~450/day. I've lost about 3 lbs in that time frame. Seems on target since my loss should have been about 3.5 with that deficit. I'm just not sure what to do from here I guess is what I'm saying.
I used the stats you posted earlier to calculate your BMI. It's 24.2. So, you're at a healthy weight. That means that you shouldn't be trying to lose more than 1 pound/week and probably not really more than 0.5 pounds/week. So, if you're burning 2300-2400 cals/day on average, you should be eating no less than 1800-1900 cals/day. The reason that your body gets cranky when you try to feed it only 1500-1600 cals/day is that that isn't enough for you.
You need to stick the course. You don't have a lot of weight to lose, so you have to lose it slowly.
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SusanMFindlay wrote: »peacelovestone wrote: »I tried to eat around 1500-1600 and it was awful. I felt awful. Apparently my BMR is 1500. So maybe that's why. Is it dangerous to try eating near that? That's my laying around, couch-potato, intake. Yet I'm far from that, so it feels my body SCREAMS for me to feed it when I eat like that.
So as for above ^^^ my TDEE averaged at 2396 for a 4 week period according to the data I have. My intake for the same 4-week period averaged at 1950. So my deficit over 4 weeks was ~450/day. I've lost about 3 lbs in that time frame. Seems on target since my loss should have been about 3.5 with that deficit. I'm just not sure what to do from here I guess is what I'm saying.
I used the stats you posted earlier to calculate your BMI. It's 24.2. So, you're at a healthy weight. That means that you shouldn't be trying to lose more than 1 pound/week and probably not really more than 0.5 pounds/week. So, if you're burning 2300-2400 cals/day on average, you should be eating no less than 1800-1900 cals/day. The reason that your body gets cranky when you try to feed it only 1500-1600 cals/day is that that isn't enough for you.
You need to stick the course. You don't have a lot of weight to lose, so you have to lose it slowly.
I guess since I listen to my body it really knows what's best then. I'll stick it out!2 -
Hi OP--You asked about IF and working out in the morning before eating. I have done both – – worked out fasted, and worked out in the afternoon sometime after eating. I guess I haven't really been able to tell a difference, or at least I don't seem to have a problem in the morning. I don't do strength exercises in the morning though, only walking or running. I do have coffee and a small piece of dark chocolate in the morning (total of about 100 calories, so not exactly fasting) so maybe that helps me? Or maybe try figuring out a way to work out later? I have run in our neighborhood in the dark after the kids have gone to bed, and we also have a treadmill at home. We actually have two treadmills at home – – one is my work treadmill desk that I use for walking, and the other is a running treadmill. This makes it a lot easier to get a workout anytime I can squeeze it in.2
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lightenup2016 wrote: »Hi OP--You asked about IF and working out in the morning before eating. I have done both – – worked out fasted, and worked out in the afternoon sometime after eating. I guess I haven't really been able to tell a difference, or at least I don't seem to have a problem in the morning. I don't do strength exercises in the morning though, only walking or running. I do have coffee and a small piece of dark chocolate in the morning (total of about 100 calories, so not exactly fasting) so maybe that helps me? Or maybe try figuring out a way to work out later? I have run in our neighborhood in the dark after the kids have gone to bed, and we also have a treadmill at home. We actually have two treadmills at home – – one is my work treadmill desk that I use for walking, and the other is a running treadmill. This makes it a lot easier to get a workout anytime I can squeeze it in.
Yeah, I don't think it bothers me so much if I do cardio... Today I did an hour of Zumba class fasted and that was fine, but doing weights fasted makes me feel weak and lightheaded. When I've done it at home (I have selectable dumbbells that go up to 50 lbs each dumbbell) I've actually stopped and gotten a protein shake and banana mid-training. I read a protocol for fasted training that said to use BCAAs and it should help, and I got those a month or two ago after I stopped doing IF, so maybe I could try that and see if it helps. I think it's because weights deplete your glycogen stores and cardio oxidizes fat instead, but I could be wrong.0 -
From your description you seem knowledge and have a sensible diet plan. I'm guessing if you find and decrease in calories has you starving that you don't have much fat to lose and are just trying to get very lean? I think that's pretty normal that that last few pounds of loss is going to be slower and slower and tougher and tougher. If you aee still losing with what you are doing I'd stick with it and just accept it's going to take a while.
If I'm wrong and your actually quite overweight then I'm not sure. Usually high protein high fiber helps but sounds like you already do that.3 -
Usually I think people aren't being honest with themselves about what they are eating and how much they are exercising, but you provided so much detail that I know you know what you are doing.
You have lost a decent amount of weight plus you are weight lifting to build muscle, which might not show on the scale but it will show in your clothes. Honestly when I was lifting 3 times a week for an hour at about 70%+ my one rep max (combo of squats, deadlifts, snatches, cleans and then drills for each) the next day I was ravenous and would sometimes eat 3,000+ calories! But my weight (141-146 pounds) always stayed the same. I also noticed the day after eating so much I usually only ate 1,200-1,600 calories.
Unfortunately the closer you get to your goal weight the harder it is to lose, simply because your deficit is smaller and smaller.
I do have a thought, though. Do you eat distracted? Like in front of the TV or computer or with others? I notice when I eat distracted I still feel hungry and keep eating, but when I eat my meal and concentrate on it, taking small bites and putting my fork down between bites, I feel more full and can stop.3 -
Cutting the calories is actually pretty easy. It isn't about eating less, it is about eating right. Stick to lean meats and seafood and vegetables and you will have no problem getting full. You will also stay full since these foods won't have the yoyo effect on your blood sugar like refined carbs will.
I started out at 320 pounds and have always had a ridiculous appetite but I have no problem staying under 2000 calories and staying full. I eat good sized meals and I still have plenty of calories left for my protein shake and some healthy snacks.0
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