A question for diabetics.
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Christine_72
Posts: 16,049 Member
I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
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Replies
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It's called non-compliant. Liar, liar pants on fire. Next the whole leg.8
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An insulin pump sort of works on this premise...and many feel the freedom to eat poorly because of it. But some (maybe all?) pumps have you input your carbs eaten to adjust the dosage. But it's not a license to eat like a fat kid unleashed on a cake...as evidenced by his recent amputation.2
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I know there's a diabetic member here, @midwesterner85 , who had 10-20k binge sessions iirc. Hopefully he'll see this thread and provide some insight.1
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Yes, as long as he is using proper bolus doses and knows how to do the math, then a bolus type insulin can be used to cover carbs. This is what type 1's do all the time for everything they eat - whether you think the food is "healthy" or not; and regardless of weight.
On the other hand, if he is really a type 2 and overweight, it is almost certain he can improve his condition by losing weight. So while he is right as far as taking insulin to cover carbs (assuming he has the supplies and knows what he is doing), he might be better long-term by losing weight.6 -
He's probably using medication to cover the fact that he's eating very poorly. In the short term he may lessen his blood glucose spikes, but in the long term his insulin resistance will get worse. I could take insulin to cover a bag of candy too. Long term, that's going to cause more problems.
Plus, I would be a lot of money that he is still getting spikes in BG that are way beyond acceptable. I would bet he would be getting BG readings in the double digits quite often (or 180's+).Doctors are finding that BG spikes above 6 are associated with "diabetic" complications. If he is letting his BG go higher, he is asking for trouble. Unfortunately.0 -
There are a wide variety of meds for diabetes, but nothing magical. It is true insulin can be adjusted to accommodate for what you eat to get your blood sugar to goal, but it will lead to weight gain unless you change your lifestyle ((healthy diet and exercise).0
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It's not a new kind of insulin. Insulin always works this way. When an insulin dependent diabetic takes a certain amount of carbs, a proportional amount of insulin is required to compensate.
Imagine a child on a swing going higher and higher. The wider the swing the deeper the compensation. And the more danger of overcompensating.
If a diabetic goes TOO LOW on his sugar, he may need to compensate with carbs until the blood sugar comes up.
The leg amputation is from poor blood sugar control, damaged nerves and damaged fine blood vessels. In that sort of condition life threatening infections can set in. The uncle is in danger of blindness too.
If he were to limit his sweets and other carbs he must carefully monitor his insulin usage so he gets used to taking less insulin. It's a tightrope walk for sure.5 -
Thank you so much for your insightful post @jgnatca1
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Umm... How is he not counting amputation as a repercussion? Seems like some serious denial going on.1
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tlflag1620 wrote: »Umm... How is he not counting amputation as a repercussion? Seems like some serious denial going on.
Most definitely! Knowing him, he'll be blaming everything else other than himself... Hopefully this is a wake up call for him.
He went into the hospital expecting to have his little toe removed, and came out of the theatre with half of his leg gone.0 -
My brother and sister have type 1 diabetes and that was pretty much how it's worked for them. They eat what they want and then take the right amount of insulin to match up with the amount of carbs they eat. Of course I think the less insulin they have to take the better and eating too many sweets is unhealthy for everyone, but they can't go their whole lives without dessert because what kind of life would that be.1
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I'm having a hard time understanding how he is having such extreme complications if he is keeping tight control of his glucose readings. Something doesn't add up.0
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Skyblueyellow wrote: »I'm having a hard time understanding how he is having such extreme complications if he is keeping tight control of his glucose readings. Something doesn't add up.
I doubt he's keeping tight control of anything, I really have no idea. At least once every couple of weeks he calls my mum telling her he's going to down a bottle of pills and kill himself.. He's one of those woe is me types.
Everything i hear is 3rd hand news down the line from my mum... I posted this to try and get a better understanding of diabetes.1 -
I'm Type II but not on insulin so I am not able to adjust a dose of anything to compensate for carb binges. I do know of several diabetics in my life who are on insulin pumps and just eat whatever the heck they want.
I do take medication, but thankfully that is all that I need at this point in my life. I'm hoping to actually get off of medication completely and be diet-controlled. It's a goal at least.
Your uncle is technically correct (as others have pointed out) but I'm afraid that it sounds as if his mental health is not great. Threatening suicide along with binge eating (with or without weight gain) is extremely concerning to me. I'm hoping that he has some sort of support system where he is to help him adjust to life after amputation. I'm afraid that if he is already suffering from depression that the loss of half of a limb will just compound that.
Best wishes to your family. This has to be difficult for your mother.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I doubt he's keeping tight control of anything, I really have no idea.
Losing a limb because of diabetes means he is not keeping tight control. Spending time above 140 mg/dl damages organs. My doctor describes it as rotting from the inside out. Probably not entirely accurate, but a useful analogy.
jgnatca's analogy is a good one. Another analogy is driving a car. When you keep your car going at a slow speed (fewer carbs), it's pretty easy to slow down (by adding more insulin) if you find you're going faster than you thought (ate more carbs) to make sure you stop at the stop sign, or to avoid something unexpected that pops up in the road in front of you (physical or emotional stress, for example - both of which have pretty dramatic consequences on my blood glucose). Take that same car traveling at 100 mph (lots of carbs). You've got to be able to apply the brakes (insulin) much more quickly and precisely to avoid blowing through the stop sign - and if something unexpected pops up - you're likely to hit it.
So what you are seeing in the amputation is the consequence of the multiple times your uncle couldn't stop in time and blew through the stop sign or ran into the deer that jumped in front of him.6 -
He's probably using medication to cover the fact that he's eating very poorly. In the short term he may lessen his blood glucose spikes, but in the long term his insulin resistance will get worse. I could take insulin to cover a bag of candy too. Long term, that's going to cause more problems.
Plus, I would be a lot of money that he is still getting spikes in BG that are way beyond acceptable. I would bet he would be getting BG readings in the double digits quite often (or 180's+).Doctors are finding that BG spikes above 6 are associated with "diabetic" complications. If he is letting his BG go higher, he is asking for trouble. Unfortunately.
Perfectly healthy people have spikes in the 180's+ when eating carbs. The differences are more about timing with insulin injections because 1) The pathway for insulin is slower, and 2) Artificial insulins still don't work as fast as our own insulin when properly working.
A few years back, there was a study published about the timing issue of injected insulin wit type 1's. Participants ate oatmeal. The control group's BG went up to 180's at 1 hr. and the diabetic group went up to lower 200's at same time. The group making insulin had started reducing BG earlier because insulin didn't have to travel through subcutaneous tissue first.2 -
Also, while it sounds like he isn't keeping good control please keep in mind that some diabetics can do everything right and not necessarily keep what many deem "good control". So many factors other than food can also cause higher blood sugar. I have also known as few diabetics that are very healthy and active and still have issues with complications. Everybody is different.3
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this is true. I am a nurse at a high school and several diabetic students...they eat what they want, try to stay away from sugar...yeah right....calculate carbs and adjust per meal. all of the diabetics at my school are on this now. since they don't adhere well to the rules....sugar....the blood sugar levels are all over the place...that being said adults seem to do very well with this.midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, as long as he is using proper bolus doses and knows how to do the math, then a bolus type insulin can be used to cover carbs. This is what type 1's do all the time for everything they eat - whether you think the food is "healthy" or not; and regardless of weight.
On the other hand, if he is really a type 2 and overweight, it is almost certain he can improve his condition by losing weight. So while he is right as far as taking insulin to cover carbs (assuming he has the supplies and knows what he is doing), he might be better long-term by losing weight.
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gieshagirl wrote: »
this is true. I am a nurse at a high school and several diabetic students...they eat what they want, try to stay away from sugar...yeah right....calculate carbs and adjust per meal. all of the diabetics at my school are on this now. since they don't adhere well to the rules....sugar....the blood sugar levels are all over the place...that being said adults seem to do very well with this.midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, as long as he is using proper bolus doses and knows how to do the math, then a bolus type insulin can be used to cover carbs. This is what type 1's do all the time for everything they eat - whether you think the food is "healthy" or not; and regardless of weight.
On the other hand, if he is really a type 2 and overweight, it is almost certain he can improve his condition by losing weight. So while he is right as far as taking insulin to cover carbs (assuming he has the supplies and knows what he is doing), he might be better long-term by losing weight.
Are these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.0
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