A question for diabetics.
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Ooooh... how sad for your uncle and your mum. Tough situation when someone you care about suffers bad consequences from bad decisions. Everyone suffers in away. Best to your family.1
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midwesterner85 wrote: »gieshagirl wrote: »
this is true. I am a nurse at a high school and several diabetic students...they eat what they want, try to stay away from sugar...yeah right....calculate carbs and adjust per meal. all of the diabetics at my school are on this now. since they don't adhere well to the rules....sugar....the blood sugar levels are all over the place...that being said adults seem to do very well with this.midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, as long as he is using proper bolus doses and knows how to do the math, then a bolus type insulin can be used to cover carbs. This is what type 1's do all the time for everything they eat - whether you think the food is "healthy" or not; and regardless of weight.
On the other hand, if he is really a type 2 and overweight, it is almost certain he can improve his condition by losing weight. So while he is right as far as taking insulin to cover carbs (assuming he has the supplies and knows what he is doing), he might be better long-term by losing weight.
Are these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.
I think the op is talking about type 1's. Minimizing carbohydrates definitely makes staying in the target zone easier. As you said there are many other factors that will affect BG, why not make it a little easier by moderating carbohydrate intake.0 -
he is lying0
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BlackTimber wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »gieshagirl wrote: »
this is true. I am a nurse at a high school and several diabetic students...they eat what they want, try to stay away from sugar...yeah right....calculate carbs and adjust per meal. all of the diabetics at my school are on this now. since they don't adhere well to the rules....sugar....the blood sugar levels are all over the place...that being said adults seem to do very well with this.midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, as long as he is using proper bolus doses and knows how to do the math, then a bolus type insulin can be used to cover carbs. This is what type 1's do all the time for everything they eat - whether you think the food is "healthy" or not; and regardless of weight.
On the other hand, if he is really a type 2 and overweight, it is almost certain he can improve his condition by losing weight. So while he is right as far as taking insulin to cover carbs (assuming he has the supplies and knows what he is doing), he might be better long-term by losing weight.
Are these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.
I think the op is talking about type 1's. Minimizing carbohydrates definitely makes staying in the target zone easier. As you said there are many other factors that will affect BG, why not make it a little easier by moderating carbohydrate intake.
It isn't necessary to avoid carbs or sugar, but yes, it makes it easier because of the timing issue mentioned earlier. That is something else that is true for non-diabetics as well... much better BG's with low carb.
The way @gieshagirl specifically called out "sugar" leads to the understanding that the diabetics she is talking about are somehow unable to take insulin to cover "sugar" and that they should abstain from "sugar." In fact, sugar is like any other source of net carbs in this regard. And diabetics can eat "sugar" and any other carbs - bread, rice, potatoes, etc. by taking insulin. For type 1's, taking insulin is just manually completing the exact same function that a non-diabetic's pancreas performs without thought. So if the argument is that a type 1 shouldn't eat "sugar" or carbs, then the same argument applies to all homo sapiens.0 -
You only get one pancreas, the danger for diabetics is high blood sugar... external sources of insulin is only a stop gap, it isn't meant to replace your own insulin production... uncontrolled diabetes can and does lead to weight loss...prior to my diagnosis I was eating like a horse and losing a couple pounds a week... I thought that was kind of cool, but I knew something was up... My doc requisitioned blood work on a Thursday... Friday morning I went to the lab for the tests... Saturday morning my Doc called me and told me to check in at the nearest ER in order to get some help ASAP... anyway... the deal is this... bacteria live on sugar... sweet blood gives plenty of food for bacteria to thrive... meds are NOT meant to provide an opportunity to indulge in carbs and sugar... they are meant to slow the progress of a progressive condition... but like anything... people are going to choose the way they live their lives regardless of any logic... often it isn't until it is too late before some decide to take their health seriously.0
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That is technically how insulin works. Insulin lowers blood sugar by decreasing the sugar that's in the bloodstream and having it be absorbed by the muscles or the glucose can be stored as fat (this is why insulin typically causes weight gain). If he accounts for carbs and uses insulin, accordingly to what he is going to eat then that's really a short term management of his disease state. If he wants to get better, he needs to watch his diet and lose weight so that he can take less insulin and maybe potentially get off insulin. I met some people who decided they wanted to turn their life around. These people were obese diabetics and they were able to get off their diabetic meds completely. Medications should be used to help people get to their goal when they are having trouble doing it themselves.
My parents are both diabetics and my job here is to help them get better.
On another note, you mentioned your uncle had his leg amputated. This might be due to the way he takes his insulin because insulin should be controlling his sugars so that infections, nerve problems, blindness shouldn't happen. But this largely depends on when he takes his insulin. If he takes his insulin at the same time of his meals or after he eats then what he's doing is being reactive to his blood sugar levels. Insulin takes time to work, depending on what type of insulin he is using. Insulin should usually be taken before meals (like 15 or 30 min before a meal for instance). If he's taking it during or after a meal, his sugar levels are already going to be high and it will come down when once the insulin starts working. If this is what is happening then the sugars still have the opportunity to damage the nerves, eyes, kidneys, etc.
Some people who have an unhealthy lifestyle are also not being compliant with their medications or are not using them appropriately, which could be what's happening to your uncle. There are people who are on a bulk load of insulin to control their sugars and they say they're doing fine. But insulin is not an easy medication to take because you have to factor in when to take the medication and when to eat each time even during snacks depending on the person. Along with that, you have to calculate how much insulin you have to take. Also, if a person's diet get worse and worse and they need to take more and more insulin, that will cost more money. You have to invest a lot of time on this medication, if you're going to use it correctly.
I am happy my parents are choosing to fight diabetes and get better. I would say this, try to inspire him to get better. It will be very hard because type 2 diabetics (if he is type 2) have been indulging in a terrible lifestyle for quite a while, so it's going to be hard to break. It will be even harder if they have certain societal factors going against his body's demands. The road he is taking now is hard, but it may get worse. His life will be dictated around his diabetes, his blood sugars, and his insulin injections---is this what he wants? He already lost half his leg and it can get worse. He needs make this choice for himself and regardless of his decision he would need support.1 -
Are these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.[/quote]
these are type 1 diabetics. some with new diagnosis and others that have had to deal with this since they were very small. with teens, the trend with doctors is that if you say something is off limits....that is what they will sneak and do. the diabetic clinics seem to have more compliance with adjustment after eating than prohibiting certain foods. the carbs are broken down by the body into sugar....sugar impacts your system fast...(2 smarties can bring it up by 50-60 points in 10 min.) where as carbs can be slowed down by eating protein with it (but it still turns to sugar and your body perceives it like sugar and uses and stores it like sugar) and thus it makes for more blood sugar stability rather than huge swings that can harm you. type 2 diabetics have less freedom if they are diet controlled because they have to rely on their body to correct blood sugar (sometimes with oral meds for help) but they are more likely to have huge swings in sugar r/t their pancreas are trying to work where as type one their pancreas are not working at all
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gieshagirl wrote: »
these are type 1 diabetics. some with new diagnosis and others that have had to deal with this since they were very small. with teens, the trend with doctors is that if you say something is off limits....that is what they will sneak and do. the diabetic clinics seem to have more compliance with adjustment after eating than prohibiting certain foods. the carbs are broken down by the body into sugar....sugar impacts your system fast...(2 smarties can bring it up by 50-60 points in 10 min.) where as carbs can be slowed down by eating protein with it (but it still turns to sugar and your body perceives it like sugar and uses and stores it like sugar) and thus it makes for more blood sugar stability rather than huge swings that can harm you. type 2 diabetics have less freedom if they are diet controlled because they have to rely on their body to correct blood sugar (sometimes with oral meds for help) but they are more likely to have huge swings in sugar r/t their pancreas are trying to work where as type one their pancreas are not working at allAre these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.
Right, so why are they supposed to stay away from sugar? They take insulin based on carbs, so why not include those sugar carbs in their dosage calculation?0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Clearly your uncle's plan is not working for him. You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
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Christine_72 wrote: »I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Clearly your uncle's plan is not working for him. You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Forget the ADA. Try Diet Doctor on Facebook. He recommends a no-grain, no-sugar (or as close as you can get), high fat diet for pre-Type 2 and Type diabetics. The idea is because diabetes is a disease of high blood sugar, why would you want to eat food that spikes blood sugar? Grains and sugar spike blood sugar and fats do not.
Makes sense to me.2 -
Thank you everyone for your comments, I'm definitely more enlightened on this subject now.0
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Clearly your uncle's plan is not working for him. You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Forget the ADA. Try Diet Doctor on Facebook. He recommends a no-grain, no-sugar (or as close as you can get), high fat diet for pre-Type 2 and Type diabetics. The idea is because diabetes is a disease of high blood sugar, why would you want to eat food that spikes blood sugar? Grains and sugar spike blood sugar and fats do not.
Makes sense to me.
"Forget the official place to go, take this random dude from facebook that I agree with".7 -
stevencloser wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Clearly your uncle's plan is not working for him. You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Forget the ADA. Try Diet Doctor on Facebook. He recommends a no-grain, no-sugar (or as close as you can get), high fat diet for pre-Type 2 and Type diabetics. The idea is because diabetes is a disease of high blood sugar, why would you want to eat food that spikes blood sugar? Grains and sugar spike blood sugar and fats do not.
Makes sense to me.
"Forget the official place to go, take this random dude from facebook that I agree with".
Truthfully, the ADA recommendation for tons of carbs is most harmful to those who are insulin resistant and not taking supplemental insulin. Those are the patients who would have the worst uncontrolled high BG's. In such cases, the ADA truly has terrible advice.1 -
The ADA does not advocate "tons of carbs"!!6
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midwesterner85 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Clearly your uncle's plan is not working for him. You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Forget the ADA. Try Diet Doctor on Facebook. He recommends a no-grain, no-sugar (or as close as you can get), high fat diet for pre-Type 2 and Type diabetics. The idea is because diabetes is a disease of high blood sugar, why would you want to eat food that spikes blood sugar? Grains and sugar spike blood sugar and fats do not.
Makes sense to me.
"Forget the official place to go, take this random dude from facebook that I agree with".
Truthfully, the ADA recommendation for tons of carbs is most harmful to those who are insulin resistant and not taking supplemental insulin. Those are the patients who would have the worst uncontrolled high BG's. In such cases, the ADA truly has terrible advice.
Glad you agree.
The ADA gets major funding from the drug companies who make billions treating Type 2 diabetics for decades. The simple diet switch defunds the drug companies, and defunds the ADA.
The other theory is that the ADA knows it has been giving terrible advise for decades, but cannot admit they were wrong because of the liability.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Thank you everyone for your comments, I'm definitely more enlightened on this subject now.
The bible of a high-fat, low-carb lifestyle is Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. It was written in 1997 and has stood the test of time. He is an 82-year-old, very healthy Type I diabetic.2 -
The ADA does not advocate "tons of carbs"!!
I acknowledge the ADA has improved significantly over the past several years in regards to carbs. In the past, it was common to see something similar to the old food pyramid - primary food is grains, then some fruit carbs and dairy (some of which has heavy carbs) as well as vegetables (some of which have heavy carbs also) and meats.
Now, the ADA is advocating low fat (still not quite right), and 25% grains / 50% non-starchy vegetables / 25% meat using the "plate method." When you calculate calories, the non-starchy vegetables have very few calories. The calories they do have come from small amounts of carbs. So 75% of the "plate" is supposed to be covered with carbs.
However, it isn't really fair to say that 75% of calories come from carbs because the 50% of the plate with "non-starchy vegetables" is going to contain fewer total calories than the other 50% with grains/starchy vegetables and meat. So let's be conservative and say that only 20% of the total calories come from the 50% of the plate (I'm open to other numbers here... it will vary widely depending on specifics). Keep in mind that is all carbs. Now there are 80% remaining calories made up with grains and meats. Let's estimate conservatively here also and figure that 50% is meat (protein and fat) while 30% is grains. That is still 50% calories from carbs! On a 2,000 calorie diet, that is 250g of carbs per day. Yes, that is tons of carbs! And that is even after the ADA has gone through significant improvement over the past several years.
ETA: Keep in mind that 250g is after making several conservative estimates also. Realistically, a person following the ADA recommendations will consume more than that.2 -
The ADA does not advocate "tons of carbs"!!
From my perspective (eating a low carb diet) 200ishg of carbs a day seems insane for someone with diabetes. And the fat recommendation seems to be rock bottom even though it's the least likely to impact blood sugar - in order to make room for all of those carbs I guess. Source
Eat the "healthy" carbs your body can't process is asinine advice at best and criminal at worst. If I had diabetes I would be paying attention to recent studies -- good control is not protecting you from heart disease and cancer. --> THIS is not working.3 -
@Christine_72
Sounds like he's not interested in making changes. There's really not much you can do about this. Honestly, if you know that he's not being completely honest about his compliance with medical recommendations, is it going to do anything other than make you upset? Likewise, for your poor mum having to deal with him?
It sounds to me like he is slowly killing himself, and doesn't care enough to stop. All the back and forth about which diet is most appropriate is useless until he is willing to make the changes. Sounds like he needs some counseling to begin changing his mindset, but even then, he needs to be willing.
Let him know that you love him, support him, and worry about his health and life. Then try to accept that until he is ready to make the changes, there is nothing more you can do. It's painful to watch loved ones throw their lives away, but it's important to know that it is out of your control. Hug your mum and tell her the same things.
Just my opinion, of course. It's free, so take it for what it's worth.5 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
I have read testimonial after testimonial from pre-Type 2 diabetics who got their blood sugars back to normal in a matter of just weeks by eliminating all grains, all sugars and all starches. Carbohydrates from leafy vegetables and low-car nuts are fine.
Maybe a few hundred of these people can organize and storm the gates of the ADA headquarters in Virginia, and tell them to change their guidelines.
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