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Is it cheating?
Replies
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Packerjohn wrote: »Weight loss advice (medical advice) from other than a medical professional should be taken with a grain truckload of salt.
that is hilarious given some of the worst advice on this site usually starts with "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/ etc told me..."
I honestly feel that sometimes people just add that "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/etc..... told me such and such" in an effort to validate what advice they are offering. If medical professionals truly offer some of the really bad advice I see floating around I think the whole medical profession has to be in serious trouble.4 -
ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Weight loss advice (medical advice) from other than a medical professional should be taken with a grain truckload of salt.
that is hilarious given some of the worst advice on this site usually starts with "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/ etc told me..."
I honestly feel that sometimes people just add that "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/etc..... told me such and such" in an effort to validate what advice they are offering. If medical professionals truly offer some of the really bad advice I see floating around I think the whole medical profession has to be in serious trouble.
Do you realize how little training doctors actually get in nutrition?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/3 -
It's only cheating if somebody is breaking the rules. Like if you have a weight loss contest and decide surgery isn't legit, then it's cheating. But if somebody has the surgery because they decided to and their doctor agreed? That's just part of live.
Everybody is free to give advice. The person getting the advice should take it with a grain of salt.3 -
Anvil_Head wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Weight loss advice (medical advice) from other than a medical professional should be taken with a grain truckload of salt.
that is hilarious given some of the worst advice on this site usually starts with "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/ etc told me..."
I honestly feel that sometimes people just add that "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/etc..... told me such and such" in an effort to validate what advice they are offering. If medical professionals truly offer some of the really bad advice I see floating around I think the whole medical profession has to be in serious trouble.
Do you realize how little training doctors actually get in nutrition?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
Absolutely I do. Which why I say if they are the source of some of this bad advice the medical profession is in trouble. However they are surely knowledgeable enough to know better than to recommend fad diets and the like. One would hope at least.2 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Weight loss advice (medical advice) from other than a medical professional should be taken with a grain truckload of salt.
that is hilarious given some of the worst advice on this site usually starts with "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/ etc told me..."
A lot of the time a doctor (or anyone else) gives advice that makes sense in context but doesn't generalize to what the entire world should be doing.3 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Weight loss advice (medical advice) from other than a medical professional should be taken with a grain truckload of salt.
that is hilarious given some of the worst advice on this site usually starts with "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/ etc told me..."
So what do you think is a better source of medical advice than a medical professional examining an individual? Obviously someone can get the advice, read, get another opinion, ask follow-up questions, etc.
IMO, I'd take that road rather than random internet posters.
BTW, what medical experience/education do you have to judge what is "some of the worst advice on this site"?1 -
I don't know if I would use the word 'cheating' but I wouldn't take advise from someone who had to have an operation to lose weight.
I understand that the operation is a very small part of the weight loss but at the end of the day the person didn't 'do it on their own' they have had help, and I know 2 people who had the surgery, lost the weight and after a few years put the weight (and more) back on because they didn't 'get' that they needed to change their diet for life, not just for a few months.
Same as people who go the 'motivation' route - 3 people (that I know), all put the weight back on once they stopped going to the clinics.
Eat less/better and move more isn't rocket science.4 -
some of the responses are interesting....1
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It would depend on the advice. I know my cousins who had the surgery were then eating a very restrictive diet and what amounted to a VLCD. They could only eat a couple bites at a time. Because of the restrictions they had post surgery I don't think their experience is always relevant to someone losing weight without the surgery. It is a very extreme form of weight loss. Over time they couldn't keep it up and gained all that weight back and more. I know another person who lost weight with surgery and has kept it off, but is still on a very restricted diet.
In that way I don't think their entire experience is relevant to someone losing weight by trying to eat less than they burn without surgical assist. In some ways surgery is easier, in some ways it is much harder. Some of the challenges are similar, but not all of them.
I am not saying in any way it is cheating, it is an extreme measure and it is sacrificing a lot. There are actual physiological reactions that happen to the body that someone without the surgery won't have to deal with or be "helped" by.1 -
There are people who consider any discomfort - no matter how minor - to be horrifying and life-threatening. Those people will fail after surgery the same way they failed before surgery.
The people who will succeed after surgery are the people who could accept a lifestyle change and succeed the way the rest of us do, and so never needed to it begin with.
Weight loss surgery isn't cheating; it's pointless.4 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Weight loss advice (medical advice) from other than a medical professional should be taken with a grain truckload of salt.
that is hilarious given some of the worst advice on this site usually starts with "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/ etc told me..."
So what do you think is a better source of medical advice than a medical professional examining an individual? Obviously someone can get the advice, read, get another opinion, ask follow-up questions, etc.
IMO, I'd take that road rather than random internet posters.
BTW, what medical experience/education do you have to judge what is "some of the worst advice on this site"?
well when someone says "my doctor told me to avoid all sugar because it makes you fat" that is a pretty huge red flag...
I am sure you can use the handy search feature and find all kinds of threads like this...2 -
xmichaelyx wrote: »There are people who consider any discomfort - no matter how minor - to be horrifying and life-threatening. Those people will fail after surgery the same way they failed before surgery.
The people who will succeed after surgery are the people who could accept a lifestyle change and succeed the way the rest of us do, and so never needed to it begin with.
Weight loss surgery isn't cheating; it's pointless.
I completely disagree that it's pointless. For some people, it's exactly what they need. My BIL was morbidly obese and had the surgery after a pretty big health scare. His doctor was concerned that he might not live much longer if he didn't lose the weight quickly. He's kept it off for a couple of years now, and his health is greatly improved. His healthy habits concerning food quantity, set meal times, and activity have become ingrained. He respects his stomach is smaller, and there will be immediate consequences if he overeats. There aren't immediate consequences for someone who hasn't had surgery - if I overeat, I might feel lethargic or a bit nauseated, but I'm not involuntarily throwing up or in great pain. It's a different way of staying motivated for maintenance for sure... Not one I'd ever want, but one that works for some.6 -
I don't consider it cheating, but it's not the best solution. The surgery does nothing to address the causes for being overweight. If those aren't confronted and resolved, they'll be right back in the same situation some time later.0
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Of course it isn't cheating. However there are risks and (my personal opinion) I think a patients mental status needs careful evaluation to make sure they understand these dangerous, and potentially life altering, risks.
However a person ultimately chooses to proceed, hopefully this person, understands that if he/she hasn't changed how they eat and how they live, they'll fail.
At one point when I was morbidly obese, surgery could have been an option for me but I took control and was able to make changes before my health was damaged. The path I chose was right for me and I have no regrets, but I don't know all the factors for those that do decide on surgery.0 -
MeganMoroz89 wrote: »Am I the only one who read what OP said completely differently? I've been reading the comments and a lot of people are commenting on if having the surgery is cheating but I thought OP was saying that the coworker said that you can't trust the weight loss advice of the person who had the surgery because "what do they know, they cheated to lose their weight" ?
I thought the OP was saying that her coworker thought surgery was cheating (no work involved) and advice from that person would be invalid to anyone who actually worked to lose weight.
My answer is to the advice portion is that the person who had surgery may have good advice or may have bad advice. Surgery is not really the deciding factor. Can they give advice to people who haven't had surgery? I believe they are quite capable of understanding CICO and that it will be based on that person's stats not theirs.
There are a lot of people who lose weight with fad or extreme diets and give advice. They work insanely hard you might say but their weight loss advice might not be particularly healthy/trustworthy. I might trust the advice of the person who had surgery much more.
Good advice is good. Bad advice is bad.
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I had an argument of sorts today because a person in our workplace was giving advise on weight loss to another coworker, but the coworker giving the advise had gastric surgery to lose weight. So the other coworker said "that shouldn't count because she cheated". It kind of made me a little upset.
What are your thoughts?
If someone had surgery to help lose weight should they give advise on weight loss to others?
Was i wrong? Did she cheat?
I don't think it's cheating, but I also don't think the dietary advice would be necessarily applicable to gen pop...
From what I know of it, surgery is basically a last resort for people who are morbidly obsese and at great health risk...as far as I know you can't just walk in with 50 Lbs to lose and say, "hey...I'm lazy...I want this surgery." From what I've seen, this is reserved generally for people with hundreds of pounds they need to lose and/or are in fairly immediate danger health wise.
They have to first lose weight...and quickly, so they eat a supervised VLCD to get to surgery weight. What they do here isn't going to be safe, healthy, or generally applicable to the general population needing to lose some weight...but it doesn't have anything to do with cheating.
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Gastric bypass .. I'm sure is no picnic and takes a lot of work and discipline that most of us can't even relate too. However.. i would also suggest that someone with a lap band or bypass not give advice to others who are losing through diet and exercise.
It is like a person with inherited wealth telling a self made person how to make and invest money.3 -
Thank you all. There was a lot if informative and honest answers, with no disrespect included. I guess there is more than one way of looking at a situation and I may have been too quick to defend one person without understanding where the other person was coming from
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I agree that it isn't cheating, but I do agree with some others that their dietary advice on losing may not be applicable to everyone else, nor do I think that personal (n=1) advice on medical issues that resolved from WLS is as valid either.
I do however believe that these people should give their opinions (on weight loss or nutrition) but they should pair it with the disclaimer that they've had WLS.0 -
I agree that it isn't cheating, but I do agree with some others that their dietary advice on losing may not be applicable to everyone else, nor do I think that personal (n=1) advice on medical issues that resolved from WLS is as valid either.
I do however believe that these people should give their opinions (on weight loss or nutrition) but they should pair it with the disclaimer that they've had WLS.
Makes sense.0
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