Calories in/Calories out vs. low carb
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cwolfman13 wrote: »It's not one size fits all. I am low carb but that's because I love the food I get to eat. I LOVE cheese, butter, cream bacon. I mean I LOVE them lol. I understand now that what made ME fat was the crackers, bread, pasta and sugar that I used to eat along side these things. So I've cut those things out, eat the things I LOVE and am losing weight. These foods satisfy me and fill me up. I feel as if every day is a cheat day.
I know that this is woe is not right for everyone, I get that. I know however that it is right for me
One friend starves all week then eat what she wants at the weekend. She's losing weight.
Another eats high carbs low fat, she's losing weight.
Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? It's gotta be what works for YOU.
^exactly-- I tried high carb low fat and was miserable with being hungry all day. It took a lot of self control to maintain a deficit on that. With LCHF I'm naturally not hungry, can go long periods between meals and can even do IF. I never could have on high carb because I was driven to eat every three hours or suffer with fighting off hunger and a gnawing feeling in my stomach. I don't get that when I eat adequate healthy fats and low carbs.
Curious...did you ever try something in between? Only two extremes of the spectrum?
That's what I'm doing now. I've been able to balance them more evenly. Thanks.
Cool...I was just wondering because it seems like people just live in these extremes around here...if you're not low carb then you must be high carb...it seems like people often miss the fact that there's this whole huge middle area where a balanced diet resides.8 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »It's not one size fits all. I am low carb but that's because I love the food I get to eat. I LOVE cheese, butter, cream bacon. I mean I LOVE them lol. I understand now that what made ME fat was the crackers, bread, pasta and sugar that I used to eat along side these things. So I've cut those things out, eat the things I LOVE and am losing weight. These foods satisfy me and fill me up. I feel as if every day is a cheat day.
I know that this is woe is not right for everyone, I get that. I know however that it is right for me
One friend starves all week then eat what she wants at the weekend. She's losing weight.
Another eats high carbs low fat, she's losing weight.
Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? It's gotta be what works for YOU.
^exactly-- I tried high carb low fat and was miserable with being hungry all day. It took a lot of self control to maintain a deficit on that. With LCHF I'm naturally not hungry, can go long periods between meals and can even do IF. I never could have on high carb because I was driven to eat every three hours or suffer with fighting off hunger and a gnawing feeling in my stomach. I don't get that when I eat adequate healthy fats and low carbs.
Curious...did you ever try something in between? Only two extremes of the spectrum?
That's what I'm doing now. I've been able to balance them more evenly. Thanks.
Cool...I was just wondering because it seems like people just live in these extremes around here...if you're not low carb then you must be high carb...it seems like people often miss the fact that there's this whole huge middle area where a balanced diet resides.
Exactly. I couldn't stay keto because I do love some starches. But I'm trying to find the sweet spot of tolerable carbs without triggering cravings and hunger.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »It's not one size fits all. I am low carb but that's because I love the food I get to eat. I LOVE cheese, butter, cream bacon. I mean I LOVE them lol. I understand now that what made ME fat was the crackers, bread, pasta and sugar that I used to eat along side these things. So I've cut those things out, eat the things I LOVE and am losing weight. These foods satisfy me and fill me up. I feel as if every day is a cheat day.
I know that this is woe is not right for everyone, I get that. I know however that it is right for me
One friend starves all week then eat what she wants at the weekend. She's losing weight.
Another eats high carbs low fat, she's losing weight.
Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? It's gotta be what works for YOU.
^exactly-- I tried high carb low fat and was miserable with being hungry all day. It took a lot of self control to maintain a deficit on that. With LCHF I'm naturally not hungry, can go long periods between meals and can even do IF. I never could have on high carb because I was driven to eat every three hours or suffer with fighting off hunger and a gnawing feeling in my stomach. I don't get that when I eat adequate healthy fats and low carbs.
Curious...did you ever try something in between? Only two extremes of the spectrum?
That's what I'm doing now. I've been able to balance them more evenly. Thanks.
Cool...I was just wondering because it seems like people just live in these extremes around here...if you're not low carb then you must be high carb...it seems like people often miss the fact that there's this whole huge middle area where a balanced diet resides.
This is what I always wonder. High carb and low fat never appealed to me (although, sigh, I know I'm plenty full on a WFPB diet that is quite low fat, I just enjoy more fat). Never had a hunger issue on a balanced, nutrient dense diet with moderate carbs and fat and protein (which is just what I tend to gravitate to when eating a healthful diet).
I think maybe some women just are really into carbs? (I say women just because I see it more from them. Maybe it is lingering fear of fat, dunno.)1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »It's not one size fits all. I am low carb but that's because I love the food I get to eat. I LOVE cheese, butter, cream bacon. I mean I LOVE them lol. I understand now that what made ME fat was the crackers, bread, pasta and sugar that I used to eat along side these things. So I've cut those things out, eat the things I LOVE and am losing weight. These foods satisfy me and fill me up. I feel as if every day is a cheat day.
I know that this is woe is not right for everyone, I get that. I know however that it is right for me
One friend starves all week then eat what she wants at the weekend. She's losing weight.
Another eats high carbs low fat, she's losing weight.
Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? It's gotta be what works for YOU.
^exactly-- I tried high carb low fat and was miserable with being hungry all day. It took a lot of self control to maintain a deficit on that. With LCHF I'm naturally not hungry, can go long periods between meals and can even do IF. I never could have on high carb because I was driven to eat every three hours or suffer with fighting off hunger and a gnawing feeling in my stomach. I don't get that when I eat adequate healthy fats and low carbs.
Curious...did you ever try something in between? Only two extremes of the spectrum?
That's what I'm doing now. I've been able to balance them more evenly. Thanks.
Cool...I was just wondering because it seems like people just live in these extremes around here...if you're not low carb then you must be high carb...it seems like people often miss the fact that there's this whole huge middle area where a balanced diet resides.
This is what I always wonder. High carb and low fat never appealed to me (although, sigh, I know I'm plenty full on a WFPB diet that is quite low fat, I just enjoy more fat). Never had a hunger issue on a balanced, nutrient dense diet with moderate carbs and fat and protein (which is just what I tend to gravitate to when eating a healthful diet).
I think maybe some women just are really into carbs? (I say women just because I see it more from them. Maybe it is lingering fear of fat, dunno.)
I did 50/30/20 because that's what Nutrisystem was promoting because of the government recommendations. I had never dieted before so I just did it. When I started getting bad cravings from it people kept telling me I must not be following plan. But I was. And they recommended 6 small meals a day and 1200 calories. It didn't work in my case, and I stuck with it for too long because I didn't know any better. Until I came to MFP and learned that there are other options to try that worked for me, that is.0 -
I don't think 50% carbs is high carb, although I did 40-30-30 when on a deficit and more like 33-33-33 for the brief period of time I was eating around 1200 (I think 100 g is a good minimum protein amount for me, so I sacrificed carbs to add more protein when on a deficit). I think people should definitely experiment if they have issues with hunger (I just never had found that macros matter for me for that, eating a good varied diet with lots of whole foods and plenty of fiber and vegetables and protein, as noted above, means I am not ever hungry).
6 meals a day is something I never did, since I know it results in me feeling unsatisfied and wanting to eat more. Just thinking about it always makes me depressed. I also loathe grazing, although I know that works for some.0 -
Macros have made all the difference on my life. 20% fat was too low. I do okay on 40/30/30.2
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First I just watched calories and made sure I didn't go overboard on the fat. I realized I was not really eating a ton of carbs so tried to actually stick with it...first under 75...then under 50 and now I am trying under 20. The thing I like about low carb is I am not hungry. I eat lunch and dinner and rarely snack. I naturally take in less but I STILL COUNT CALORIES. I have only been on MFP since the second week of August and counting helps me. I have no problem with the no bread or pasta (I do have low carb tortillas now for wraps) but I do miss potatoes. On 50 I could still fit in a small potato when I wanted it so I liked that but kept hearing that under 20 was the way to go. I do NOT do the high fat. I find protein is what keeps me satiated which is cool because I love meat. I just miss having potatoes or rice with my meat. My protein is usually anywhere from 10-30 grams higher than my fat because I don't purposely add extra fat to everything I eat. If I felt like I needed it, I might but I don't so do not see the point in putting butter in my coffee and using heavy whipping cream in everything I eat. I even use light margarine when margarine is needed. I still use full fat cheese and full fat sour cream because I don't enjoy the taste of the fat free but I use it in moderation.
I am still "experimenting". For right now, I am sticking to the lower carb just because my hunger is much more controlled but I am thinking about going back to the 50-75 so I can go back to enjoying my potatoes or other starchy side as side dishes.
As for rate of loss, at this point it looks like I lost at the same rate just counting calories as I am at low carb but I haven't been doing it long enough to really have a good handle on that.0 -
I'm pretty sure I was under 20% fat when I was doing a WFPB eating plan for Lent one time, and I've never been more sated on less food. I can see getting dissatisfied with it, though, as I enjoy more fat (and eggs, meat, and dairy). But this is why I say experiment if something isn't working.
Too often, though, I see people eating lots of low-fiber, highly processed carbs (or often carbs+fat) as the basis of their diet, changing to some kind of low carb or clean eating plan and bumping up protein and often vegetables/fiber (even though there is zero reason someone should need to go low carb to add in vegetables, which are primarily carbs), and then blaming "carbs" or carb percentage for why the prior diet was unsatisfying and the new one is not.
But that aside, I do think people vary in what works for them.0 -
Helloitsdan wrote: »Myself and my clients don't count calories and we lose weight when we need to.
Consistentcy over time is how it's done.
You'll lose weight on low carb, but you really need to find something you can maintain for life.
So, find what calorie range has you maintaining weight for a month.
Reduce that by taking away a snack and see what you lose over the next month.
If it's a few pounds, awesome.
If you're over 30 BMI, reduce your intake by one more snack or simply stop eating when you're 75-80% full.
Simple, intuitive, natural.
PM if you need more info.
@Helloitsdan, how do those two things above (the bolded) reconcile with each other? No snark, genuinely curious. IPOARM was helpful to me back in the day, but it seems as though you've gone in a different direction since then if I'm reading your current posts correctly.
"So, find what calorie range has you maintaining weight for a month."
Forgot to cover this in my last answer!
You look at your food diary over the last week or so and see where the weight sits.
Since most people look to loose weight indiscriminately, it's important to them that the scale goes down.
Also the average person eats the same 15 foods a week with some variety sprinkled in here or there.
So if you've been tracking correctly and honestly, and you've maintained weight for several weeks, it's safe to say that that calorie is your maintenance. I personally fluctuate up to 6lbs depending on work, training, stress, sleep quality.
If you've maintained on the same calories fur a week or so, reduce 1 easy good item for that week. Usually I eliminate Starbucks (300-500kcal) per day and I'll begin losing scale weight.
Rank beginners who begin working with a coach lifting weights and eating nutrient dense foods, may not see scale weight drop as quickly due to composition changes, but will notice clothing fitting better.
Nit everything is scale weight. My clients weigh once a week. I have one who's never weighed herself because of dysmorphia tendency.
More on the habit changes as I work on IPOARM 2017.0 -
Repeat:
Low carb is a way to CICO.
Just sayin'.
There is no "which one is better".3 -
I love veggies and have never given them up. I love protein too! Low glycemic carbs are okay if they have enough protein and fiber. I have trouble with processed flour and sugary items in isolation. Low fat isn't good for me, personally.1
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lemurcat12 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »It's not one size fits all. I am low carb but that's because I love the food I get to eat. I LOVE cheese, butter, cream bacon. I mean I LOVE them lol. I understand now that what made ME fat was the crackers, bread, pasta and sugar that I used to eat along side these things. So I've cut those things out, eat the things I LOVE and am losing weight. These foods satisfy me and fill me up. I feel as if every day is a cheat day.
I know that this is woe is not right for everyone, I get that. I know however that it is right for me
One friend starves all week then eat what she wants at the weekend. She's losing weight.
Another eats high carbs low fat, she's losing weight.
Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? It's gotta be what works for YOU.
^exactly-- I tried high carb low fat and was miserable with being hungry all day. It took a lot of self control to maintain a deficit on that. With LCHF I'm naturally not hungry, can go long periods between meals and can even do IF. I never could have on high carb because I was driven to eat every three hours or suffer with fighting off hunger and a gnawing feeling in my stomach. I don't get that when I eat adequate healthy fats and low carbs.
Curious...did you ever try something in between? Only two extremes of the spectrum?
That's what I'm doing now. I've been able to balance them more evenly. Thanks.
Cool...I was just wondering because it seems like people just live in these extremes around here...if you're not low carb then you must be high carb...it seems like people often miss the fact that there's this whole huge middle area where a balanced diet resides.
This is what I always wonder. High carb and low fat never appealed to me (although, sigh, I know I'm plenty full on a WFPB diet that is quite low fat, I just enjoy more fat). Never had a hunger issue on a balanced, nutrient dense diet with moderate carbs and fat and protein (which is just what I tend to gravitate to when eating a healthful diet).
I think maybe some women just are really into carbs? (I say women just because I see it more from them. Maybe it is lingering fear of fat, dunno.)
I don't have a fear of fat, it just doesn't do much for me. I like some sources of it just fine. I think olive oil, nuts, and avocado are delicious, but they don't sate me very much. I'd rather spend my calories on vegetables and fruit.
That being said, I still put a few grams of walnuts in my smoothies for the EFA's. And use olive oil spray on my popcorn.
I make sure to get 100 grams of protein a day, and then I get as many carbs as I can for energy, because they fill me up.
Edit: Since macro splits were mentioned, I'm doing 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat. I don't always hit it perfectly, it's just what I set MFP at. I mostly only care about hitting my protein minimum.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »It's not one size fits all. I am low carb but that's because I love the food I get to eat. I LOVE cheese, butter, cream bacon. I mean I LOVE them lol. I understand now that what made ME fat was the crackers, bread, pasta and sugar that I used to eat along side these things. So I've cut those things out, eat the things I LOVE and am losing weight. These foods satisfy me and fill me up. I feel as if every day is a cheat day.
I know that this is woe is not right for everyone, I get that. I know however that it is right for me
One friend starves all week then eat what she wants at the weekend. She's losing weight.
Another eats high carbs low fat, she's losing weight.
Who is to say who is right and who is wrong? It's gotta be what works for YOU.
^exactly-- I tried high carb low fat and was miserable with being hungry all day. It took a lot of self control to maintain a deficit on that. With LCHF I'm naturally not hungry, can go long periods between meals and can even do IF. I never could have on high carb because I was driven to eat every three hours or suffer with fighting off hunger and a gnawing feeling in my stomach. I don't get that when I eat adequate healthy fats and low carbs.
Curious...did you ever try something in between? Only two extremes of the spectrum?
That's what I'm doing now. I've been able to balance them more evenly. Thanks.
Cool...I was just wondering because it seems like people just live in these extremes around here...if you're not low carb then you must be high carb...it seems like people often miss the fact that there's this whole huge middle area where a balanced diet resides.
This is what I always wonder. High carb and low fat never appealed to me (although, sigh, I know I'm plenty full on a WFPB diet that is quite low fat, I just enjoy more fat). Never had a hunger issue on a balanced, nutrient dense diet with moderate carbs and fat and protein (which is just what I tend to gravitate to when eating a healthful diet).
I think maybe some women just are really into carbs? (I say women just because I see it more from them. Maybe it is lingering fear of fat, dunno.)
I don't have a fear of fat, it just doesn't do much for me. I like some sources of it just fine. I think olive oil, nuts, and avocado are delicious, but they don't sate me very much. I'd rather spend my calories on vegetables and fruit.
Hunger wise it doesn't do much for me either, so I get that. I meant women who claim they were eating high carb diets naturally or when initially dieting even though they believe they feel better with more fat.
I love vegetables and fruit, but I think I missed the gene (kidding, I know it's not a gene) that makes people want to overeat plain pasta or bread or rice or other grains (or, ugh, cold cereal). That stuff just leaves me blah. (To clarify, I love pasta and good bread, but not on its own -- with protein and vegetables and a little fat, delicious.) And even the supposedly orgasmic, can't stop eating sugar things usually are just okay or yum, but not all that to me, vs. a rack of lamb (know that's not your thing!) or some cheese or the like. If I ate everything without considering calories I bet my macros would be pretty much the same as they are now.
The exception was when I was really low cal, as I made an effort to get in my 100 g of protein at a lower calorie level. Now I gravitate more toward 45-50% carbs at maintenance (25% the other two). But that's just a spot check, since I rarely log anymore.0 -
I can do some serious damage to cold cereal and milk. But it's the combination. I was never one for eating it straight out of the box.
But I've also overeaten (to ridiculous extremes) egg salad and cheese.
Having been an emotional eater, it really was all about putting away a vast quantity of food, no matter what I was eating. That's why I don't really get the "the macros made me do it" arguments. My overeating was always behavior based.1 -
I am lucky...not a huge pasta person or cereal or sugar except for the Coke I had to give up and switch to Coke Zero. My big one is POTATOES....Every single way you can possibly prepare a potato I LOVE. I could live on potatoes, meat and cheese.2
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I can do some serious damage to cold cereal and milk. But it's the combination. I was never one for eating it straight out of the box.
But I've also overeaten (to ridiculous extremes) egg salad and cheese.
Having been an emotional eater, it really was all about putting away a vast quantity of food, no matter what I was eating. That's why I don't really get the "the macros made me do it" arguments. My overeating was always behavior based.
I've never been an overeater or an emotional eater-- don't like feeling "full". I gradually gained a few pounds over time. I tend to plateau and maintain easily. I think my gain was age related and due to slowing metabolism over time. I was never overweight when younger and not too overweight at max weight. But I have trouble losing weight and don't understand how others can lose so easily but can gain back easily. I don't lose weight easily and do stall easily.0 -
I am lucky...not a huge pasta person or cereal or sugar except for the Coke I had to give up and switch to Coke Zero. My big one is POTATOES....Every single way you can possibly prepare a potato I LOVE. I could live on potatoes, meat and cheese.
I could totally live off of breakfast cereal
Pasta,rice and potatoes i can take or leave. 0 -
I'm down 105lb down in a year and I eat just whatever I want, just in moderation. There is no way on Earth that I could go low carb, I enjoy carb rich foods too much and find I need them to feel full. So I got to indulge in my son's birthday cake yesterday along with a fully loaded hot chocolate. But I do also occasionally enjoy the lower carb options, cauliflower rice is a lot tastier than I imagined and carrot noodles are really yummy.1
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I can do some serious damage to cold cereal and milk. But it's the combination. I was never one for eating it straight out of the box.
But I've also overeaten (to ridiculous extremes) egg salad and cheese.
Having been an emotional eater, it really was all about putting away a vast quantity of food, no matter what I was eating. That's why I don't really get the "the macros made me do it" arguments. My overeating was always behavior based.
I've never been an overeater or an emotional eater-- don't like feeling "full". I gradually gained a few pounds over time. I tend to plateau and maintain easily. I think my gain was age related and due to slowing metabolism over time. I was never overweight when younger and not too overweight at max weight. But I have trouble losing weight and don't understand how others can lose so easily but can gain back easily. I don't lose weight easily and do stall easily.
Well, I used to think those same things about myself -- that I had a slowed metabolism due to age and that I lost weight slowly.
That's not true.
You said you were using Nutri-System to lose weight. Were you logging and tracking at the time? Were you using a food scale? If you weren't you don't truly know your caloric intake.
At the time I thought I was having a hard time losing weight, I was estimating my food intake by eyeballing portions. When I starting actually logging and weighing everything, it was a real eye opener. I also started losing weight at pretty much the expected rate.
The truth is that age accounts for a very small decrease in metabolic rate, about 100 calories per decade.
I've said before that the way you speak about metabolism indicates that you misunderstand it. I stand by that.2 -
I've done both.
I lost weight on Atkins easily BUT I couldn't eat like that for the rest of my life and thus why I failed at maintaining any weight I lost.
CICO - I can eat what I want in my calorie goal, I can play around with my calories (went over today by 100 reduce tomorrow by 100 or the next 2 days by 50) I know approximately how many calories I need to eat to maintain so this is a life long doable way for me.1
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