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habits vs genetics?
Replies
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rankinsect wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Ask yourself how many morbidly obese people existed 100 years ago.
Doesn't mean there isn't a genetic component, just that in the past most people didn't have access to sufficient food to gain that much. Genetics can definitely make people want to eat more, by increasing hunger and reducing satiety, but weight still comes down to CICO - if you lack access to a surplus of calories you can't gain.
In fact that's why a predisposition to overeat would be evolutionarily favorable - historically people didn't have access to enough food to cause obesity to be a serious health risk, and those who ate a lot during times of plenty were less likely to perish in the next famine. Now we have a drive to prepare for a famine that isn't going to happen.
I don't disagree with you, but my point is that we can still do something about it. We aren't helpless. Lemurcat12 above made a much more complete response on this point. My concern is that these things start to be viewed fatalistically as if people are "meant" to be fat or skinny without considering how much lifestyle/habit changes can make a difference. I love to eat and I genuinely enjoy being "stuffed" at times. I wish I didn't because this would be so much easier.5 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Ask yourself how many morbidly obese people existed 100 years ago.
This is interesting as the culture of skinny = attractive is relatively new. Obesity has historically been a sign of wealth and affluence, which as you state destroys the "It's my genes" narrative.
People love to say this, but it's not true except for a fraction of a percentage of the very wealthy and royalty, who could actually afford to be gluttonous. And even then, there's little evidence that this was considered "attractive" any more than the fat billionaires of today are considered attractive. People unfamiliar with art history always point to Rubens as an example of how fat people ("Rubenesque") were considered desirable, but leave out the fact that Rubens was a distant outlier for a very short period, and that even most of his contemporaries painted women that would fit into today's idea of attractiveness. Men in particular were nearly always painted as extremely muscular.
Attractiveness has always meant "relatively slim" in Western society, back as far as the Greeks. It's almost like we're genetically predisposed towards people who appear physically healthy.
edit: It's also important to differentiate "desirability" from "physical attractiveness." The guy today who has a yacht and a Lamborghini may be physically hideous, but he's still going to get tons of women because his wealth makes him desirable. Similarly, a fat person 400-years ago would have been very desirable, but not necessarily physically attractive.12 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Ask yourself how many morbidly obese people existed 100 years ago.
Well 100 years ago would be 1916 and the answer is ... mostly rich people1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »rankinsect wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Ask yourself how many morbidly obese people existed 100 years ago.
Doesn't mean there isn't a genetic component, just that in the past most people didn't have access to sufficient food to gain that much. Genetics can definitely make people want to eat more, by increasing hunger and reducing satiety, but weight still comes down to CICO - if you lack access to a surplus of calories you can't gain.
In fact that's why a predisposition to overeat would be evolutionarily favorable - historically people didn't have access to enough food to cause obesity to be a serious health risk, and those who ate a lot during times of plenty were less likely to perish in the next famine. Now we have a drive to prepare for a famine that isn't going to happen.
I don't disagree with you, but my point is that we can still do something about it. We aren't helpless. Lemurcat12 above made a much more complete response on this point. My concern is that these things start to be viewed fatalistically as if people are "meant" to be fat or skinny without considering how much lifestyle/habit changes can make a difference. I love to eat and I genuinely enjoy being "stuffed" at times. I wish I didn't because this would be so much easier.
Oh, I agree fully that even if the genetic deck is stacked against you, it doesn't mean you can't be a healthy weight. It does mean that it will likely require some additional effort to reach and maintain goal weight.6 -
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IMO, it's like a card game...
Genetics is the hand you are delt.
Habit is how you choose to play those cards.
I agree with what someone said earlier though that environment/culture can be a big factor as well.8 -
The older I get, the more I believe in the effects of genetics. You can maximize your potentials but once you hit about 50, the genetics kick in and you look more and more like your aunts and uncles.1
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michael_hatten wrote: »The older I get, the more I believe in the effects of genetics. You can maximize your potentials but once you hit about 50, the genetics kick in and you look more and more like your aunts and uncles.
If your aunts and uncles became less active and had portion creep, sure.3 -
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michael_hatten wrote: »The older I get, the more I believe in the effects of genetics. You can maximize your potentials but once you hit about 50, the genetics kick in and you look more and more like your aunts and uncles.
So when I hit 50 I should become very slender and either muscular like my uncle on my mother's side, or scrawny like my uncles on my father's side. Forgetting the fact that my none of my uncles' physiques are anything like my parent's physiques (other than height).
I don't think that's quite how this works.
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michael_hatten wrote: »The older I get, the more I believe in the effects of genetics. You can maximize your potentials but once you hit about 50, the genetics kick in and you look more and more like your aunts and uncles.
I am doomed in 2 years from now.1 -
I believe it can be both. However, using genetics of obesity does not give us the go ahead to just give up and go pig out on whatever we want, then turn around and blame it on metabolism or genes. I have heard that excuse many times. I have tons more respect for those who try than those who don't .3
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Your genetics determine the limits that you can push yourself too. How you push yourself to those limits, and how fast you reach them is entirely dependent on your habits.4
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Genetics is huge part of bone structure, weight gain, and what you eat that may cause weight gain.
My family is Italian and all my siblings grew up eating macaroni regularly for meals. If you come to my house, macaroni and sauce is healthy in our house. Why? Because based on our genetics, we benefit more from spaghetti and sauce in our diets than mashed potatoes and chicken. I eat macaroni without weight gain, but I rather hate stake. My dad can't eat regular macaroni because of his genetics and the fact he has diabetes from weight gain. He has to eat a special kind that won't spike his blood sugar so fast.
My sister has bigger bones than me but my brother and I are smaller boned. Leaving my sister to eat more but have trouble losing weight. My brother and I can lose weight fairly fast if we watch what we eat. That is also why I don't look good at my sister's weight but she wouldn't look good at my weight. We aren't that off in height, but bone structure determines what "looks right."
It depends, I would say a good chunk is genetics. But the other part is learning what is healthy, and to not go overboard on how much you eat.0 -
you think there are genetic differences that allow some people to eat pasta and some people to not be able to.....? Have you ever seen any research or data on this?DanceDiva234 wrote: »Genetics is huge part of bone structure, weight gain, and what you eat that may cause weight gain.
My family is Italian and all my siblings grew up eating macaroni regularly for meals. If you come to my house, macaroni and sauce is healthy in our house. Why? Because based on our genetics, we benefit more from spaghetti and sauce in our diets than mashed potatoes and chicken. I eat macaroni without weight gain, but I rather hate stake. My dad can't eat regular macaroni because of his genetics and the fact he has diabetes from weight gain. He has to eat a special kind that won't spike his blood sugar so fast.
My sister has bigger bones than me but my brother and I are smaller boned. Leaving my sister to eat more but have trouble losing weight. My brother and I can lose weight fairly fast if we watch what we eat. That is also why I don't look good at my sister's weight but she wouldn't look good at my weight. We aren't that off in height, but bone structure determines what "looks right."
It depends, I would say a good chunk is genetics. But the other part is learning what is healthy, and to not go overboard on how much you eat.
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DanceDiva234 wrote: »If you come to my house, macaroni and sauce is healthy in our house. Why? Because based on our genetics, we benefit more from spaghetti and sauce in our diets than mashed potatoes and chicken.
This is one of the best things I've read on here. I'm going to eat pizza everyday so that my children can enjoy the health benefits of pizza.
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trigden1991 wrote: »DanceDiva234 wrote: »If you come to my house, macaroni and sauce is healthy in our house. Why? Because based on our genetics, we benefit more from spaghetti and sauce in our diets than mashed potatoes and chicken.
This is one of the best things I've read on here. I'm going to eat pizza everyday so that my children can enjoy the health benefits of pizza.
Pop epigenetics. At least it's more fun than pop postmodernism.5 -
Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
you think there are genetic differences that allow some people to eat pasta and some people to not be able to.....? Have you ever seen any research or data on this?DanceDiva234 wrote: »Genetics is huge part of bone structure, weight gain, and what you eat that may cause weight gain.
My family is Italian and all my siblings grew up eating macaroni regularly for meals. If you come to my house, macaroni and sauce is healthy in our house. Why? Because based on our genetics, we benefit more from spaghetti and sauce in our diets than mashed potatoes and chicken. I eat macaroni without weight gain, but I rather hate stake. My dad can't eat regular macaroni because of his genetics and the fact he has diabetes from weight gain. He has to eat a special kind that won't spike his blood sugar so fast.
My sister has bigger bones than me but my brother and I are smaller boned. Leaving my sister to eat more but have trouble losing weight. My brother and I can lose weight fairly fast if we watch what we eat. That is also why I don't look good at my sister's weight but she wouldn't look good at my weight. We aren't that off in height, but bone structure determines what "looks right."
It depends, I would say a good chunk is genetics. But the other part is learning what is healthy, and to not go overboard on how much you eat.
I've never looked into it, but I am sure there is a study somewhere. My only explanation in regards to my statement is from experience. The general population of the United States has always complained of gaining weight from breads and pastas, but the majority of my family never faces weight gain from a dish of macaroni every night.
I think our genetics has a defining role in what we can eat and how much weight we gain from certain foods. If your ancestors lived off of certain foods for survival than eventually evolution takes course and the food becomes easier for your body to break down. Maybe those who have trouble digesting starches is because their genetics aren't accustomed to handling it?
I have a tree nut allergy that runs through my family. My aunt has it and my father has it, and in turn my cousin and my sister and I have it. We've had the allergy since birth. Is that genetics? Just a thought, I have no scientific evidence to back up any of my claims.
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DanceDiva234 wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
you think there are genetic differences that allow some people to eat pasta and some people to not be able to.....? Have you ever seen any research or data on this?DanceDiva234 wrote: »Genetics is huge part of bone structure, weight gain, and what you eat that may cause weight gain.
My family is Italian and all my siblings grew up eating macaroni regularly for meals. If you come to my house, macaroni and sauce is healthy in our house. Why? Because based on our genetics, we benefit more from spaghetti and sauce in our diets than mashed potatoes and chicken. I eat macaroni without weight gain, but I rather hate stake. My dad can't eat regular macaroni because of his genetics and the fact he has diabetes from weight gain. He has to eat a special kind that won't spike his blood sugar so fast.
My sister has bigger bones than me but my brother and I are smaller boned. Leaving my sister to eat more but have trouble losing weight. My brother and I can lose weight fairly fast if we watch what we eat. That is also why I don't look good at my sister's weight but she wouldn't look good at my weight. We aren't that off in height, but bone structure determines what "looks right."
It depends, I would say a good chunk is genetics. But the other part is learning what is healthy, and to not go overboard on how much you eat.
I've never looked into it, but I am sure there is a study somewhere. My only explanation in regards to my statement is from experience. The general population of the United States has always complained of gaining weight from breads and pastas, but the majority of my family never faces weight gain from a dish of macaroni every night.
I think our genetics has a defining role in what we can eat and how much weight we gain from certain foods. If your ancestors lived off of certain foods for survival than eventually evolution takes course and the food becomes easier for your body to break down. Maybe those who have trouble digesting starches is because their genetics aren't accustomed to handling it?
I have a tree nut allergy that runs through my family. My aunt has it and my father has it, and in turn my cousin and my sister and I have it. We've had the allergy since birth. Is that genetics? Just a thought, I have no scientific evidence to back up any of my claims.
Or they eat the same number of calories as they burn therefore are eating at maintenance? Genetic predisposition to food types, especially as specific as pasta, is absurd.7 -
DanceDiva234 wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
you think there are genetic differences that allow some people to eat pasta and some people to not be able to.....? Have you ever seen any research or data on this?DanceDiva234 wrote: »Genetics is huge part of bone structure, weight gain, and what you eat that may cause weight gain.
My family is Italian and all my siblings grew up eating macaroni regularly for meals. If you come to my house, macaroni and sauce is healthy in our house. Why? Because based on our genetics, we benefit more from spaghetti and sauce in our diets than mashed potatoes and chicken. I eat macaroni without weight gain, but I rather hate stake. My dad can't eat regular macaroni because of his genetics and the fact he has diabetes from weight gain. He has to eat a special kind that won't spike his blood sugar so fast.
My sister has bigger bones than me but my brother and I are smaller boned. Leaving my sister to eat more but have trouble losing weight. My brother and I can lose weight fairly fast if we watch what we eat. That is also why I don't look good at my sister's weight but she wouldn't look good at my weight. We aren't that off in height, but bone structure determines what "looks right."
It depends, I would say a good chunk is genetics. But the other part is learning what is healthy, and to not go overboard on how much you eat.
I've never looked into it, but I am sure there is a study somewhere. My only explanation in regards to my statement is from experience. The general population of the United States has always complained of gaining weight from breads and pastas, but the majority of my family never faces weight gain from a dish of macaroni every night.
I think our genetics has a defining role in what we can eat and how much weight we gain from certain foods. If your ancestors lived off of certain foods for survival than eventually evolution takes course and the food becomes easier for your body to break down. Maybe those who have trouble digesting starches is because their genetics aren't accustomed to handling it?
I have a tree nut allergy that runs through my family. My aunt has it and my father has it, and in turn my cousin and my sister and I have it. We've had the allergy since birth. Is that genetics? Just a thought, I have no scientific evidence to back up any of my claims.
No one gains weight from bread and pasta without a calorie surplus. (Also, most who claim to gain on pasta probably eat it WITH bread, in overly large servings, with a high cal sauce and plenty of cheese.) My ancestry isn't Italian at all (it's mostly British Isles and German, which is the ethnic background of a huge proportion of the US), and yet I lost weight easily eating pasta regularly (I don't really like bread that much unless it's homemade or naan, but I ate that sometimes too). And, of course, the entire population of Europe regularly ate some sort of carbs (and all starches get treated the same by the body), so that my ancestors might have been earlier adopters of the potato vs. some other Europeans (and the potato is relatively recent to Europe, introduced around 1600, caught on later, depending on the place) is not going to mean that I do better with potatoes than others who maybe relied (ancestrally) more on grains (including rice).
In fact, most areas of the world relied on a primary starch staple -- tend to be easy to grow and high in cals and that was the main concern.
I somewhat buy the amylase thing and that some groups do worse with higher carb diets than others, but I don't think that's going to differentiate various European groups and couldn't explain differences so specific as pasta vs. potatoes. (Personally, I'm a fan of gnocchi anyway.)2 -
genetics certainly play a part- but just a part. If you are eating a doctor monitored weight loss dietary plan and still not losing weight then there is probably something else at play. If you eat what you want with no plan, even if you think you are eating 'good' then it's habit.
Has anyone else watched Secret Eaters? Where people write down what they eat for a week, then the show spies on them for a week to see if they are realizing what they actually eat. Everyone always MASSIVELY under estimates what they are eating. Often by 2 or 3 times the amount.
People blaming their genetics, and solely/mainly their genetics, makes me think of when violent criminals where blaming their DNA for making them criminals.2 -
DanceDiva234 wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
you think there are genetic differences that allow some people to eat pasta and some people to not be able to.....? Have you ever seen any research or data on this?DanceDiva234 wrote: »Genetics is huge part of bone structure, weight gain, and what you eat that may cause weight gain.
My family is Italian and all my siblings grew up eating macaroni regularly for meals. If you come to my house, macaroni and sauce is healthy in our house. Why? Because based on our genetics, we benefit more from spaghetti and sauce in our diets than mashed potatoes and chicken. I eat macaroni without weight gain, but I rather hate stake. My dad can't eat regular macaroni because of his genetics and the fact he has diabetes from weight gain. He has to eat a special kind that won't spike his blood sugar so fast.
My sister has bigger bones than me but my brother and I are smaller boned. Leaving my sister to eat more but have trouble losing weight. My brother and I can lose weight fairly fast if we watch what we eat. That is also why I don't look good at my sister's weight but she wouldn't look good at my weight. We aren't that off in height, but bone structure determines what "looks right."
It depends, I would say a good chunk is genetics. But the other part is learning what is healthy, and to not go overboard on how much you eat.
I've never looked into it, but I am sure there is a study somewhere. My only explanation in regards to my statement is from experience. The general population of the United States has always complained of gaining weight from breads and pastas, but the majority of my family never faces weight gain from a dish of macaroni every night.
I think our genetics has a defining role in what we can eat and how much weight we gain from certain foods. If your ancestors lived off of certain foods for survival than eventually evolution takes course and the food becomes easier for your body to break down. Maybe those who have trouble digesting starches is because their genetics aren't accustomed to handling it?
I have a tree nut allergy that runs through my family. My aunt has it and my father has it, and in turn my cousin and my sister and I have it. We've had the allergy since birth. Is that genetics? Just a thought, I have no scientific evidence to back up any of my claims.
I'd just like to point out that this chain of logic does not hold.
On the one hand, you're saying that people whose ancestors ate a lot of a particular type of food have a harder time getting fat from eating it - like you and your family with pasta.
On the other hand, you're saying that people whose ancestors ate a lot of a particular type of food have evolved to digest it more easily/completely. If you digest a food better than someone else, you're extracting more calories and/or nutrients which would lead to gaining more easily on equal amounts of that food.
Both statements can't be true.
Isn't it more reasonable to think that you and your family are accustomed to portioning the pasta you make appropriately for your daily needs, so you eat an appropriate amount and that others are not so good at doing this?6 -
Ive found some interesting articles on the subject , which definatly suggests it is a combination of both
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/pregastric/fatgenes.html
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110919073845.htm
http://www.medicaldaily.com/food-preferences-based-genetics-how-personlized-nutrition-may-fight-depression-and-obesity-285814
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/168487140 -
I would say habits.0
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I would tend to think that habits are a larger contributing factor but there certainly are factors outside of habits that can contribute towards (or resist) obesity.
One potentially interesting area of study is how people autoregulate spontaneous physical activity in response to food intake.
There's at least some evidence that certain people will inherently burn off a greater portion of excess calories by upregulating spontaneous movement compared to more obesity prone individuals.
Additionally, NEAT also explains a good portion of the reduction in energy output that is seen in people who have successfully lost weight (James Krieger did a fantastic presentation on this in the UK this year)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3782097/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1543621/
Stephan Guyenet on genetics of obesity and some commentary on twins studies:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-genetics-of-obesity-part-i.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2336074
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ugh I CANT with this one my mother is over weight and always says its because of my diabetes its because of my genetics etc etc. NO woman its because you used to eat an entire box of donuts and a big bag of potato chips every day for 10 years of your life. I have never said that to her of course but its true my father isnt over weight, my mothers mother isnt over weight, my sister isnt over weight, i was over weight but thats because i would binge eat not because of genetics. IT IS possible to loose weight with diabetes and thyroid issues but most people use there illness as a crutch.4
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This doesn't not follow. As someone else already pointed out, if they had trouble digesting the foods, they would have more trouble extracting calories and nutrients from the foods and gaining weight. Getting overweight from foods is a relatively recent phenomenon and would be generally favored in an environment where food is difficult to come by.DanceDiva234 wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »
you think there are genetic differences that allow some people to eat pasta and some people to not be able to.....? Have you ever seen any research or data on this?DanceDiva234 wrote: »Genetics is huge part of bone structure, weight gain, and what you eat that may cause weight gain.
My family is Italian and all my siblings grew up eating macaroni regularly for meals. If you come to my house, macaroni and sauce is healthy in our house. Why? Because based on our genetics, we benefit more from spaghetti and sauce in our diets than mashed potatoes and chicken. I eat macaroni without weight gain, but I rather hate stake. My dad can't eat regular macaroni because of his genetics and the fact he has diabetes from weight gain. He has to eat a special kind that won't spike his blood sugar so fast.
My sister has bigger bones than me but my brother and I are smaller boned. Leaving my sister to eat more but have trouble losing weight. My brother and I can lose weight fairly fast if we watch what we eat. That is also why I don't look good at my sister's weight but she wouldn't look good at my weight. We aren't that off in height, but bone structure determines what "looks right."
It depends, I would say a good chunk is genetics. But the other part is learning what is healthy, and to not go overboard on how much you eat.
I've never looked into it, but I am sure there is a study somewhere. My only explanation in regards to my statement is from experience. The general population of the United States has always complained of gaining weight from breads and pastas, but the majority of my family never faces weight gain from a dish of macaroni every night.
I think our genetics has a defining role in what we can eat and how much weight we gain from certain foods. If your ancestors lived off of certain foods for survival than eventually evolution takes course and the food becomes easier for your body to break down. Maybe those who have trouble digesting starches is because their genetics aren't accustomed to handling it?
Additionally, the cuisines you think of as traditional were hardly static. Foods were introduced with colonization and trade. Tomatoes are very prevalent in Italian cuisine, but they were only introduced into the late 17th or early 18th century. Tomatoes originated from central/south America. There wasn't a sudden prevalence of obesity in Ireland when potatoes were introduced from the America's hundreds of years ago.0 -
Much of this discussion has been about generalities. The documentary profiles a handful of people who have a specific known genetic disorder, Prader-Willi Syndrome, the result of damage or gene deletion in chromosome 15, resulting in an array of developmental disorders. I'm not sure we can infer anything about genetic effects on weight gain in the general population from that.0
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Genetics establishes parameters. Habits allow one to either be limited by those parameters or break past them.
Good points. It seems like epigenetics trumps genetics as well for most people.
advances.nutrition.org/content/5/1/71.full1
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