Why is it the more I run the slower I'm getting ?
Amclean93
Posts: 40 Member
Hi everyone, just a quick background on myself- I'm 23, I enjoy playing rugby, football(soccer) running and going to the gym. I came back home to Scotland at the end of September after spending 6 months in America (most of my time spent eating lots and drinking lots, and some weight-training but never running) After coming home it was time to get in to my normal routine again, I run 3.2 miles to my rugby club, use the gym, run home. At my peak a couple of years ago I could run there in 24 mins. It's not all flat, there is one large hill, but I was always proud of the 24 mins (it took me a while to get there) The first time I done that run it would take me 33-35mins. Anyway, when I came back from America the strangest thing happened, I was running it a lot quicker than I thought I'd be able to, and I started getting faster pretty quickly, and now the more I train the further away I get from my goal of 24 mins. I have also started adding in long runs, because I want to do another marathon next year, I thought this might help my time, by increasing my cardiovascular capacity but I don't know if it is helping. I will put an '*' beside my long runs, everything else is my 3.2 mile (5km) run to the gym.
Here's a look at the dates and how long it took me.
Oct 11th- 28:00
Oct 13th- 28:19
Oct 14th- 27:15 !
Oct 19th- 26:54 !!
Oct 20th- 26:25 !!!
Oct 31st- 27:30
Nov 4th- 32:04
*Nov 6th- 9.89 miles 01:49:56*
Nov 7th- 29:16
Nov 10th- 28:27
*Nov 11th- 5miles 59:15*
*Nov 13th- 11.74 miles 02:25:44*
Nov 14h- 28:55
*Nov 15h- 5.15 miles 50:31*
Nov 18th- 37:29 ???
*Nov 21st- 6.56 miles 1:06:40*
*Nov 24th- 5.63 miles 57:56*
* Nov 27th 16 miles 03:22:47*
* Nov 29th 5.61 miles 01:00:08*
And today I tried running there and it took me around 35 mins. I have no idea what's going on, because when I came back from America I had gained quite a bit of weight and I was pretty unfit, but yet in that first week I got it down to 26:25 !! And now no matter how hard I try I cant get close to that, at my fastest it might take me like 29 mins. I don't know if it has something to do with my long slow runs, is that kind of throwing my body off? I would have thought it might have aided me get a quicker time but is it doing the reverse ? Thanks for reading and for any feedback guys,
Adam.
Here's a look at the dates and how long it took me.
Oct 11th- 28:00
Oct 13th- 28:19
Oct 14th- 27:15 !
Oct 19th- 26:54 !!
Oct 20th- 26:25 !!!
Oct 31st- 27:30
Nov 4th- 32:04
*Nov 6th- 9.89 miles 01:49:56*
Nov 7th- 29:16
Nov 10th- 28:27
*Nov 11th- 5miles 59:15*
*Nov 13th- 11.74 miles 02:25:44*
Nov 14h- 28:55
*Nov 15h- 5.15 miles 50:31*
Nov 18th- 37:29 ???
*Nov 21st- 6.56 miles 1:06:40*
*Nov 24th- 5.63 miles 57:56*
* Nov 27th 16 miles 03:22:47*
* Nov 29th 5.61 miles 01:00:08*
And today I tried running there and it took me around 35 mins. I have no idea what's going on, because when I came back from America I had gained quite a bit of weight and I was pretty unfit, but yet in that first week I got it down to 26:25 !! And now no matter how hard I try I cant get close to that, at my fastest it might take me like 29 mins. I don't know if it has something to do with my long slow runs, is that kind of throwing my body off? I would have thought it might have aided me get a quicker time but is it doing the reverse ? Thanks for reading and for any feedback guys,
Adam.
0
Replies
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You're transitioning to more slow twitch muscle fibers, geared towards endurance, not speed.5
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Are you using a Garmin GPS watch or something to help make sure you are staying on pace? If not, I would get one...especially if you'll be training for a marathon.
If you've been running a while, it might be time to add a speedwork session in your running once per week, such as intervals, a tempo run, a fast finish, etc... Just note that most of your running shouldn't be all out as fast as you can go. Most should be at conversational pace. There is some good info about running training plans on the internet, but all of it says you should have a combination of slow runs with some speedwork.
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whats your reason to be trying to PB a 5k 4 or 5 times a week?9
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You happened to have 2 faster days, the rest before and after the 26s are fairly consistent. Some days we do better than others, that's life, that's working out!5
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If you are truly that worried about your speed, throw in intervals a few days a week. I agree with lorrpb, we do have good days and bad days.1
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My guess: too much chronic training load, you're constantly fatigued, at least somewhat, enough to not perform at your full capabilities.8
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I agree--it does sound like overtraining.3
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TavistockToad wrote: »whats your reason to be trying to PB a 5k 4 or 5 times a week?
This.2 -
How is your sleep? Recovery time between runs + rugby training? Diet? Is your coach stressing you out or is there another source of anxiety?3
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You're running a 5K to the gym, working out and running a 5K home, sometimes on back to back days. I'd say you're not allowing for proper recovery.8
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NorthCascades wrote: »My guess: too much chronic training load, you're constantly fatigued, at least somewhat, enough to not perform at your full capabilities.
Yup...5 -
To get faster you have to rest. Going full speed all the time does not work. Slow down. Make most of your runs easy. Do a long run each week and maybe add one workout that is fast.
I suggest starting on a intermediate/advanced marathon training program and stick with it. Do each workout and fight the urge to see how fast you can run. And if you find yourself slowing down take an extra rest day.3 -
Probably the smartest piece of training advice that I ever got was to run my fast runs faster and my slow runs MUCH slower. Many serious runners call miles that are run at a medium pace "junk miles" because they are typically run just to run -- i.e. not for a specific training purpose. If you are serious about getting faster, every run should have a purpose (i.e. recovery, base aerobic capacity building, threshold run, speed work to improve mechanics, etc.), and you should know what it is before walking out the door. Typically, most purpose-driven runs will either be slow or will have a slow warmup and cooldown and some intense AF running in the middle.
As an example --- my long runs used to be at an 8:30 pace. On tempo days, I'd do 1.5 miles at 9:00 pace, 5k at 6:00 pace or slightly faster, and 1.5 miles at 9:00 pace as a cooldown. For many guys I know who are better runners than me, the contrast between long run pace and tempo pace is greater.
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NorthCascades wrote: »My guess: too much chronic training load, you're constantly fatigued, at least somewhat, enough to not perform at your full capabilities.
Definitely! You are overtraining. I would try working out/running/rugby every other day for a week and see what happens. If your speed picks up again, you have your answer. I suspect it will.4 -
Try to have a good sleep and rest, maybe you are overtrained and try to check your timer maybe the battery was weak. Just guessing
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As others have said, you are over training. Running 5k either side of a rugby training sessions is just to much for your body to repair and recover from before you head out and do it again.
You put a post in the long distance running group about the ultra you have signed up for and the marathon in March. You need to start by prioritising what you fitness goals are.
If it is the marathon and the ultra then you need to start following a structured training plan for those, which will probably mean things like the rugby get side lined until you have completed the runs.
As it stands, you are a long long way off your desired sub 3:30 marathon time which means that your ultra time will probably be a lot lot longer than you currently think it will be. If you are not mentally ready to be out on your feet for 10+ hours then you will DNF.
You need to seriously stop caring about running fast, slow it all down, take a couple of rest days a week and start focusing on proper training for the runs you have booked.6 -
BeeerRunner wrote: »Are you using a Garmin GPS watch or something to help make sure you are staying on pace? If not, I would get one...especially if you'll be training for a marathon.
If you've been running a while, it might be time to add a speedwork session in your running once per week, such as intervals, a tempo run, a fast finish, etc... Just note that most of your running shouldn't be all out as fast as you can go. Most should be at conversational pace. There is some good info about running training plans on the internet, but all of it says you should have a combination of slow runs with some speedwork.
Yeah I have a runkeeper app which has a voice telling me every 5 mins what my average pace is it's pretty helpful0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »whats your reason to be trying to PB a 5k 4 or 5 times a week?
I'm not sure, I think it's just a confidence thing. I think it's because I know that when I was at my peak physically I was able to run that route in 23/24mins, and it would make me feel good if I could do that again. I've probably tried to do too much too soon. And I know myself I'm probably trying to force it to happen whereas I should just take a break and let it happen naturally. But as people have stated above, I'm maybe over-training, because I also didn't mention in that original post my runs to work which I sometimes have to get up at 6am to do, they are only 2.5 mile runs so it's nothing really but that combined with less sleep has probably been contributing to over-training past couple weeks. I've just wanted to give myself a big kick up the *kitten* after all the guilty months in America.
So, thank you to everyone for your replies it's been very insightful and has helped me get rid of the worries I was having. My plan is to keep doing 1 long slow run a week (hopefully building on my most recent 16mile run), maybe 2 back-to-back long&slow runs (for the purpose of training for the ultra) And when I do run to the gym don't worry about the time and just keep it at a conversational speed. And make sure I'm getting enough rest and not forcing myself to do too much.
Thanks again people ! 3 -
It sounds like your best bet (outside of a good coach or scheduled training plan) is probably using TrainingPeaks and the fitness vs freshness chart for long term pacing. All of these things will help you avoid the temptation to do too much which sounds like is what is preventing you from hitting your 24 mm 5K.1
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NorthCascades wrote: »It sounds like your best bet (outside of a good coach or scheduled training plan) is probably using TrainingPeaks and the fitness vs freshness chart for long term pacing. All of these things will help you avoid the temptation to do too much which sounds like is what is preventing you from hitting your 24 mm 5K.
What is the fitness vs freshness chart ? Never heard of that, you got a link to one ?0 -
When you run, you're improving and hurting your fitness at the same time.
You go out and do a run, and that's good for your cardiovascular fitness and it's good for your leg strength and all these other things. But it's also wrecked your leg muscles, and your body needs time to repair that damage.
That shouldn't be anything you don't know. But it's also kind of vague, and hard to act on.
You can take all of the running you've done over the last month and a half, and use it to chart your chronic training load (CTL), which overall is a pretty good proxy for your fitness. The more exercise you've done recently, the more fit you'll be.
Then you take all the running you've done over the last week, and use it to chart your acute training load (ATL), which is a proxy for your fatigue or exhaustion. The 5K you ran a month ago isn't still making you tired, but the one you did yesterday is.
Fatigue decays faster than fitness; people wouldn't gain anything from exercise if that wasn't true. Finally you have training stress balance (TSB) which is yesterday's fatigue minus yesterday's fitness. This is the one that matters. You're "in good form" after a short taper (rest period) when you have a lot of fitness but aren't too exhausted to use it.
The chart shows them all, and with that information, it's very easy to see when you're ready to deliver your peak performance.5 -
Nobody has brought that up and I'm certainly not versed in discussing optimum training schedule (though it does sound like you're over-training). But are you ALSO cutting calories at the same time? Potentially under-fuelling your training?2
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Here is an article that argues for a focus on speed over mileage. Perhaps it is relevant to the discussion. https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/the-8-minute-mile-standard0
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TavistockToad wrote: »whats your reason to be trying to PB a 5k 4 or 5 times a week?
I'm not sure, I think it's just a confidence thing. I think it's because I know that when I was at my peak physically I was able to run that route in 23/24mins, and it would make me feel good if I could do that again. I've probably tried to do too much too soon. And I know myself I'm probably trying to force it to happen whereas I should just take a break and let it happen naturally. But as people have stated above, I'm maybe over-training, because I also didn't mention in that original post my runs to work which I sometimes have to get up at 6am to do, they are only 2.5 mile runs so it's nothing really but that combined with less sleep has probably been contributing to over-training past couple weeks. I've just wanted to give myself a big kick up the *kitten* after all the guilty months in America.
So, thank you to everyone for your replies it's been very insightful and has helped me get rid of the worries I was having. My plan is to keep doing 1 long slow run a week (hopefully building on my most recent 16mile run), maybe 2 back-to-back long&slow runs (for the purpose of training for the ultra) And when I do run to the gym don't worry about the time and just keep it at a conversational speed. And make sure I'm getting enough rest and not forcing myself to do too much.
Thanks again people !
Training to get fit is one thing. Training to get fast is an entirely different thing.
Study up on the Training Effect. You're going to have to introduce various levels of intervals, rest/recovery where super compensation (or "over compensation") takes place after the previous training load you have endured to build your speed and stamina.
This chart shows the path for you to get "faster" by loaded, recovering, loading, recovering, and on and on...
The lower half of this chart shows what you are currently experiencing by trying to "beat" a certain time day in and day out. You are in a downward trend (under recovery and over reaching) as your body is not getting the time it needs to recover, super or over compensate and get stronger so that the next effort has you start out on your run at a better/stronger/fitter/faster form...
1 -
Here is an article that argues for a focus on speed over mileage. Perhaps it is relevant to the discussion. https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/the-8-minute-mile-standard
This article is a mix of half truths and bro-science!1 -
Here is an article that argues for a focus on speed over mileage. Perhaps it is relevant to the discussion. https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/the-8-minute-mile-standard
I think this is the material point that the author makes:
I do not have a specific formula as to why the time frame of the mile should be 8 minutes.
The rest of the article is predicated on his opinion. Regrettably the meaningful point he raises gets lost in the rest.1 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »Here is an article that argues for a focus on speed over mileage. Perhaps it is relevant to the discussion. https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/the-8-minute-mile-standard
I think this is the material point that the author makes:
I do not have a specific formula as to why the time frame of the mile should be 8 minutes.
The rest of the article is predicated on his opinion. Regrettably the meaningful point he raises gets lost in the rest.
I agree. The whole article is predicated on his opinion of, not only that his way of training is the only suitable way to train, but also that everybody must have the same goal in mind in relation to running. He states that a person that isn't capable of running a 5K in under 25 minutes has no business running it in the first place and then suggests that this isn't elitist. Hello brother, you just slapped the face of the vast majority of 5K participants and then claim it isn't elitist. That's about the point where most people are going to stop listening. If there is a compelling argument to be made here, he certainly needs to find a better way to present it.2 -
I read the article based on the comments here. There's "8 minutes" I'll never get back. 4
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I know the article is controversial, but you know people are doing something wrong when there are so many people all kitted out in running gear at the local 5k but most of them can't break 30 minutes. We should be critical of the focus on just putting in more miles when one could benefit from speed work.1
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They are doing nothing wrong. Not everyone is there to 'race'. Runners have no issue with that. I am sorry you do.7
![im]](https://us.v-cdn.net/cdn-cgi/image/fit=scale-down,width=1600/http://home.trainingpeaks.com/getmedia/259f9858-c289-4b25-a3a5-241151544394/performance-management-chart-trainingpeaks-peakATL?width=700&height=294[/im])
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