Why is it the more I run the slower I'm getting ?
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When you run, you're improving and hurting your fitness at the same time.
You go out and do a run, and that's good for your cardiovascular fitness and it's good for your leg strength and all these other things. But it's also wrecked your leg muscles, and your body needs time to repair that damage.
That shouldn't be anything you don't know. But it's also kind of vague, and hard to act on.
You can take all of the running you've done over the last month and a half, and use it to chart your chronic training load (CTL), which overall is a pretty good proxy for your fitness. The more exercise you've done recently, the more fit you'll be.
Then you take all the running you've done over the last week, and use it to chart your acute training load (ATL), which is a proxy for your fatigue or exhaustion. The 5K you ran a month ago isn't still making you tired, but the one you did yesterday is.
Fatigue decays faster than fitness; people wouldn't gain anything from exercise if that wasn't true. Finally you have training stress balance (TSB) which is yesterday's fatigue minus yesterday's fitness. This is the one that matters. You're "in good form" after a short taper (rest period) when you have a lot of fitness but aren't too exhausted to use it.
The chart shows them all, and with that information, it's very easy to see when you're ready to deliver your peak performance.5 -
Nobody has brought that up and I'm certainly not versed in discussing optimum training schedule (though it does sound like you're over-training). But are you ALSO cutting calories at the same time? Potentially under-fuelling your training?2
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Here is an article that argues for a focus on speed over mileage. Perhaps it is relevant to the discussion. https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/the-8-minute-mile-standard0
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TavistockToad wrote: »whats your reason to be trying to PB a 5k 4 or 5 times a week?
I'm not sure, I think it's just a confidence thing. I think it's because I know that when I was at my peak physically I was able to run that route in 23/24mins, and it would make me feel good if I could do that again. I've probably tried to do too much too soon. And I know myself I'm probably trying to force it to happen whereas I should just take a break and let it happen naturally. But as people have stated above, I'm maybe over-training, because I also didn't mention in that original post my runs to work which I sometimes have to get up at 6am to do, they are only 2.5 mile runs so it's nothing really but that combined with less sleep has probably been contributing to over-training past couple weeks. I've just wanted to give myself a big kick up the *kitten* after all the guilty months in America.
So, thank you to everyone for your replies it's been very insightful and has helped me get rid of the worries I was having. My plan is to keep doing 1 long slow run a week (hopefully building on my most recent 16mile run), maybe 2 back-to-back long&slow runs (for the purpose of training for the ultra) And when I do run to the gym don't worry about the time and just keep it at a conversational speed. And make sure I'm getting enough rest and not forcing myself to do too much.
Thanks again people !
Training to get fit is one thing. Training to get fast is an entirely different thing.
Study up on the Training Effect. You're going to have to introduce various levels of intervals, rest/recovery where super compensation (or "over compensation") takes place after the previous training load you have endured to build your speed and stamina.
This chart shows the path for you to get "faster" by loaded, recovering, loading, recovering, and on and on...
The lower half of this chart shows what you are currently experiencing by trying to "beat" a certain time day in and day out. You are in a downward trend (under recovery and over reaching) as your body is not getting the time it needs to recover, super or over compensate and get stronger so that the next effort has you start out on your run at a better/stronger/fitter/faster form...
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Here is an article that argues for a focus on speed over mileage. Perhaps it is relevant to the discussion. https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/the-8-minute-mile-standard
This article is a mix of half truths and bro-science!1 -
Here is an article that argues for a focus on speed over mileage. Perhaps it is relevant to the discussion. https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/the-8-minute-mile-standard
I think this is the material point that the author makes:
I do not have a specific formula as to why the time frame of the mile should be 8 minutes.
The rest of the article is predicated on his opinion. Regrettably the meaningful point he raises gets lost in the rest.1 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »Here is an article that argues for a focus on speed over mileage. Perhaps it is relevant to the discussion. https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/the-8-minute-mile-standard
I think this is the material point that the author makes:
I do not have a specific formula as to why the time frame of the mile should be 8 minutes.
The rest of the article is predicated on his opinion. Regrettably the meaningful point he raises gets lost in the rest.
I agree. The whole article is predicated on his opinion of, not only that his way of training is the only suitable way to train, but also that everybody must have the same goal in mind in relation to running. He states that a person that isn't capable of running a 5K in under 25 minutes has no business running it in the first place and then suggests that this isn't elitist. Hello brother, you just slapped the face of the vast majority of 5K participants and then claim it isn't elitist. That's about the point where most people are going to stop listening. If there is a compelling argument to be made here, he certainly needs to find a better way to present it.2 -
I read the article based on the comments here. There's "8 minutes" I'll never get back. 4
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I know the article is controversial, but you know people are doing something wrong when there are so many people all kitted out in running gear at the local 5k but most of them can't break 30 minutes. We should be critical of the focus on just putting in more miles when one could benefit from speed work.1
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They are doing nothing wrong. Not everyone is there to 'race'. Runners have no issue with that. I am sorry you do.7
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I know the article is controversial, but you know people are doing something wrong when there are so many people all kitted out in running gear at the local 5k but most of them can't break 30 minutes. We should be critical of the focus on just putting in more miles when one could benefit from speed work.
So now people who can't break 30 minutes shouldn't be "all kitted out in running gear?"
Should they be forced to run in regular street clothes instead, to distinguish them from the "real" runners? Or maybe have a scarlet letter branded on their foreheads?
How's the view from up on that high horse?10 -
I know the article is controversial
I wouldn't dignify it with that description., but you know people are doing something wrong when there are so many people all kitted out in running gear at the local 5k but most of them can't break 30 minutes. We should be critical of the focus on just putting in more miles when one could benefit from speed work.
We have no idea why others run, what's motivating them to get out there. Regrettably what puts some people off is others turning their noses up at what they percieve as not fitting their own motivations.
Speedwork has a place, but until one has adequate training volume to benefit from it, it's more likely to lead to injury than anything else.
If we go back to the original point, whaqt's causing the slow down appears to be overtraining. No ammount of speedowork is going to fix that...
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Was definitely guilty of over-training in November, viewed my runkeeper profile online, and I went from running a measly 24 miles in October to running 110 miles in November. As a consequence I suffered from a headache this past week, and noticed my times getting slower. Having taken a few days off I'm ready to get back to it today, wee 5km run to the gym and gonna do a light workout. Definitely going to be more wary of over-training from now on, thanks guys !3
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Was definitely guilty of over-training in November, viewed my runkeeper profile online, and I went from running a measly 24 miles in October to running 110 miles in November. As a consequence I suffered from a headache this past week, and noticed my times getting slower. Having taken a few days off I'm ready to get back to it today, wee 5km run to the gym and gonna do a light workout. Definitely going to be more wary of over-training from now on, thanks guys !
Sounds good! Let us know how it felt to run today after a few days off. Hopefully, you had "happy legs" during your run...1 -
SingingSingleTracker wrote: »Was definitely guilty of over-training in November, viewed my runkeeper profile online, and I went from running a measly 24 miles in October to running 110 miles in November. As a consequence I suffered from a headache this past week, and noticed my times getting slower. Having taken a few days off I'm ready to get back to it today, wee 5km run to the gym and gonna do a light workout. Definitely going to be more wary of over-training from now on, thanks guys !
Sounds good! Let us know how it felt to run today after a few days off. Hopefully, you had "happy legs" during your run...
I actually ended up running the 5k in 26 mins, I didn't initially set off to run my fastest time, but when my app told me I was running at an average pace of 7:30 min/mi and 8:00 min/mi I thought I'd try and keep it at that pace. I was so surprised that after so many days off (well it wasn't actually that many days off just 3/4) that I was able to do it in that time haha, I was so happy. Definitely had happy legs as you said. 100% going to learn to give myself more rest days and stop trying to go all out all of the time.4 -
I know the article is controversial, but you know people are doing something wrong when there are so many people all kitted out in running gear at the local 5k but most of them can't break 30 minutes. We should be critical of the focus on just putting in more miles when one could benefit from speed work.
You should visit some of the 5K threads on the LetsRun.com forums. There, anyone who can't break 15:00 for a 5K is a total loser, and if you ask a question as I did once about trying to get from the low 19:00s to the 18:XXs, you are advised to just quit.
I think some people's bodies just run faster --- even at the same weight and training load. I used to run with a guy who would get busy with work and quit running. When things slowed down, he would start running again with our group. For the first couple of runs, we'd slow down to his 9:XX miles. Two weeks in, we'd be running 8:XX miles. Then we'd all be comfortable at 7:XX training miles for a while. After about six weeks, he'd start to drop us, and after a few months he'd be back down to his high 5:XX training paces. Based on that experience, I am not going to criticize people who are running 30:00 5Ks, although I do think most of them could run faster.
The advice I have always seen, though -- including from my previous coach who was a sub 15:30 5K guy even in his 30s -- is volume before speed. Build up volume to establish a base, add strides, then do some R pace (faster than interval, slower than sprint) workouts to develop efficiency, then add build intervals. But --- all of that stuff comes after a decent base building phase at a slow pace, and definitely after you have been running for at least 6 months to build up some durability.
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I know the article is controversial, but you know people are doing something wrong when there are so many people all kitted out in running gear at the local 5k but most of them can't break 30 minutes. We should be critical of the focus on just putting in more miles when one could benefit from speed work.
This is for anyone who judges a person on how long it takes them to run.
Personally I think anyone who is going to judge someone on what time it takes them to run various distances is a complete joke figure, and utter moron. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, has the right to criticise someone for turning up to a race in running gear and not getting this time or that time. You don't know anything about that person, they might be recovering from a serious illness or injury, or they might just be someone who is wanting to change or improve their lifestyle and have to start somewhere, or they might not even be a runner but someone who is fundraising for a charity ! No matter the case we should all be encouraging one anther to get out and run, jog or walk not insulting others.
I don't feel embarrassed that I can't run a 5k in under 24mins, when I first started I couldn't break 30mins. Because I am not solely a runner, I'm a rugby player, weightlifter and football player. Therefore if some runner was to laugh at my 5k time, I'd challenge them to play a high standard full-contact 80min game of rugby. Or to lift the same weight as me in the gym.
I want people to get running gear and run a distance that will challenge them or make them feel better about themselves. If it takes them an hour, who the hell cares !? Certainly not me, I'd be encouraging them. If someone is going to laugh at a person or mock them for not getting a time you think is good enough, without knowing the first thing about that person then you're an arrogant fool, and the world could do better without ya.
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It takes me 38 minutes to run 5k and I am PROUD of that, it is the furthest I can run, well so far! I doubt I will get that much faster, but it doesn't matter. I would likely come last in a 5k race, but I wouldn't enter anyway. There is nothing wrong with me, I am not recovering from injury or anything, but I am just slow. AND I wear running gear! :-)6
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It takes me 38 minutes to run 5k and I am PROUD of that, it is the furthest I can run, well so far! I doubt I will get that much faster, but it doesn't matter. I would likely come last in a 5k race, but I wouldn't enter anyway. There is nothing wrong with me, I am not recovering from injury or anything, but I am just slow. AND I wear running gear! :-)
That's a really good time well done. Exactly, you should be proud. There's some just some horrible and stupid people out there. Don't listen to them 2 -
It takes me 38 minutes to run 5k and I am PROUD of that, it is the furthest I can run, well so far! I doubt I will get that much faster, but it doesn't matter. I would likely come last in a 5k race, but I wouldn't enter anyway. There is nothing wrong with me, I am not recovering from injury or anything, but I am just slow. AND I wear running gear! :-)
I ran a 10k in a normal shirt once. Know what the prize was? Fire nipples. Keep wearing your running gear.
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