Replacing back squat with front squat as my primary leg exercise?
Da_Chozen_Juan
Posts: 37 Member
I came across this study,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19002072/
It basically concludes that front squats can be safer for the knee joints than back squats, which sounds appealing to me as I have a past plagued by knee injuries. It also infers that little to no difference was found in muscle activation and development in the athletes who substituted front squats for back squats. Front squats honestly feel more "natural" to me, and I absolutely prefer them over back squats (which I seemingly struggle with and force myself to do because it's thought to be the "king of all exercises). My program has me do 2 squat variations (back squat & Bulgarian split squats), deadlifts, and other lower body accessory movements. I'd rather do front squats & split squats than back squats (for the people that say "just do front & back squats"). Has anybody here substituted the back squat for another movement? If so, have you seen any noticeable differences?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19002072/
It basically concludes that front squats can be safer for the knee joints than back squats, which sounds appealing to me as I have a past plagued by knee injuries. It also infers that little to no difference was found in muscle activation and development in the athletes who substituted front squats for back squats. Front squats honestly feel more "natural" to me, and I absolutely prefer them over back squats (which I seemingly struggle with and force myself to do because it's thought to be the "king of all exercises). My program has me do 2 squat variations (back squat & Bulgarian split squats), deadlifts, and other lower body accessory movements. I'd rather do front squats & split squats than back squats (for the people that say "just do front & back squats"). Has anybody here substituted the back squat for another movement? If so, have you seen any noticeable differences?
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I do stronglifts and subbed the front squat for the back squat. I couldn't nail my form in back squat, so I switched. I think it was a good decision. I'm not repeating the same weight all the time trying to get form right anymore. Front squats just come naturally for me.1
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Can't do a back squat either. I have a bad shoulder, so I do front squats too.1
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Da_Chozen_Juan wrote: »I came across this study,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19002072/
It basically concludes that front squats can be safer for the knee joints than back squats, which sounds appealing to me as I have a past plagued by knee injuries. It also infers that little to no difference was found in muscle activation and development in the athletes who substituted front squats for back squats. Front squats honestly feel more "natural" to me, and I absolutely prefer them over back squats (which I seemingly struggle with and force myself to do because it's thought to be the "king of all exercises). My program has me do 2 squat variations (back squat & Bulgarian split squats), deadlifts, and other lower body accessory movements. I'd rather do front squats & split squats than back squats (for the people that say "just do front & back squats"). Has anybody here substituted the back squat for another movement? If so, have you seen any noticeable differences?
I just front squatted today for day 2 of my next 6 week block (that I haven't fully written yet, lol). I'm subbing the front squat in for a 6 week block with 2-3 front squat sessions per week and probably 1 back squat per week.
There's nothing wrong with front squatting. You'll likely be using much lower loads which by itself should spare knee stress. From a developmental standpoint you'll get less training stimulus on the posterior chain since you'll have a more upright torso angle in a front squat, and you'll get proportionately more quad stimulus.
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Da_Chozen_Juan wrote: »I came across this study,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19002072/
It basically concludes that front squats can be safer for the knee joints than back squats, which sounds appealing to me as I have a past plagued by knee injuries. It also infers that little to no difference was found in muscle activation and development in the athletes who substituted front squats for back squats. Front squats honestly feel more "natural" to me, and I absolutely prefer them over back squats (which I seemingly struggle with and force myself to do because it's thought to be the "king of all exercises). My program has me do 2 squat variations (back squat & Bulgarian split squats), deadlifts, and other lower body accessory movements. I'd rather do front squats & split squats than back squats (for the people that say "just do front & back squats"). Has anybody here substituted the back squat for another movement? If so, have you seen any noticeable differences?
I just front squatted today for day 2 of my next 6 week block (that I haven't fully written yet, lol). I'm subbing the front squat in for a 6 week block with 2-3 front squat sessions per week and probably 1 back squat per week.
There's nothing wrong with front squatting. You'll likely be using much lower loads which by itself should spare knee stress. From a developmental standpoint you'll get less training stimulus on the posterior chain since you'll have a more upright torso angle in a front squat, and you'll get proportionately more quad stimulus.
Sounds good. I'm not worried about the lesser degree of development of the posterior change from cutting out back squats. The deadlifts, hamstring curls, split squats, and hyper extensions that I do will definitely be sufficient enough in developing the posterior chain.1 -
jennybearlv wrote: »I do stronglifts and subbed the front squat for the back squat. I couldn't nail my form in back squat, so I switched. I think it was a good decision. I'm not repeating the same weight all the time trying to get form right anymore. Front squats just come naturally for me.
Same here. With back squats, I just find myself leaning forward a bit too much on ascension. I thought it was an ankle mobility issue, but surprisingly I don't have trouble keeping an upright torso in the front squat, which demands greater ankle mobility than the back squat.0 -
nice to know that it isn't just me. i'm still trying with the back squats but i've put front squats in as an equal contender and i'm just going to let the two of them battle it out. currently i know the wisdom about it and all, but the fact is i seem to be getting more butt work out of my front squats than the back ones.
dunno why, but that's the way that it is. knees aren't my problem but every other part of the back squatting is, or has been at some point. i still haven't taken my squats out of the quarantine ward and put them back into the regular routine, but i'm getting less and less worried about whether/when i ever actually do.0 -
All they did was measure muscle activation (EMG) and forces on the knee, nothing about development. I would think the lower compressive force on the knee is more a matter of lower load, not bar positioning.Da_Chozen_Juan wrote: »It also infers that little to no difference was found in muscle activation and development in the athletes who substituted front squats for back squats.
From the article:
They even go on to say that in a similar study, compressive forces were measured to be much higher while the subjects were lifting much more. I can't say for sure why they'd dilly dally around saying load=compression, but probably because it'd be a boring study.Presumably, the
increased knee extensor moment
required during the back squat
is attributable to the additional
load lifted during the back
squat. More specifically, our
subjects lifted 61.8 kg during
the back squat and 48.5 kg for
the front squat.
The more I see these EMG studies, the more confused I get about the real-world consequences, if there are any. Actually, this is the second time I've seen the commonly held belief about back squat/posterior chain vs. front squat/anterior core/quad emphasis being unsupported by "muscle activation" EMG readings. Seems to me, EMG can tell you what's working, but not much more than that.
But anyway, as to your point, nothing wrong with front squats. I prefer zerchers myself. If you find them more comfortable for your knee, that's more important than whether they're considered king or not. I think they're only king 'cause people load them so high, not because they're more effective (for whatever effectiveness means to you).1 -
I do both, but how much for each is dependent how I write my program reflective on goals and health. I use hip belt squats in place of back squats as well. Basically I program all my squats exclusively for quads and get posterior work from hip thrust, glute ham curls, deads, and seated curls.
Simular on two lifters with relatively the same composition of body type can deadlift or squat differently. Certain lifts benefit some lifters alot and not others as much. Find the ones your body adheres to according to your goals and use a program that mirrors your needs.0 -
If the goal is to hit the quads, front squats are just fine as a replacement.
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This is wildly dependent on your body and goals.
I DO front squat- but unhappily. My front squat is very pretty- but it does bother my knees- and I'm not even going particularly heavy- as am currently doing 3 x 12 to 15- and of the things I do- this one bothers me the most- so much so I've considered completely removing them and subbing it out for leg extensions and thoracic extensions.0 -
Da_Chozen_Juan wrote: »I came across this study,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19002072/
It basically concludes that front squats can be safer for the knee joints than back squats, which sounds appealing to me as I have a past plagued by knee injuries. It also infers that little to no difference was found in muscle activation and development in the athletes who substituted front squats for back squats. Front squats honestly feel more "natural" to me, and I absolutely prefer them over back squats (which I seemingly struggle with and force myself to do because it's thought to be the "king of all exercises). My program has me do 2 squat variations (back squat & Bulgarian split squats), deadlifts, and other lower body accessory movements. I'd rather do front squats & split squats than back squats (for the people that say "just do front & back squats"). Has anybody here substituted the back squat for another movement? If so, have you seen any noticeable differences?
I rarely do back squats. Olympic lifts are at the foundation of my program so I do a lot more front squatting as that is the position I'm going to be in with a clean. I also do overhead squat variations as assistance for the snatch. Other assistance work generally includes dead lift variations, single leg work, lunge variations, etc.
I actually haven't done a back squat in about 5 months since I was diagnosed with a compressed disk in my c6/7...everything seems to be back to normal now, but I haven't bothered to back squat since the injury.0 -
My primary goal for leg work is to increase functional strength.This is wildly dependent on your body and goals.
I DO front squat- but unhappily. My front squat is very pretty- but it does bother my knees- and I'm not even going particularly heavy- as am currently doing 3 x 12 to 15- and of the things I do- this one bothers me the most- so much so I've considered completely removing them and subbing it out for leg extensions and thoracic extensions.
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Da_Chozen_Juan wrote: »
My primary goal for leg work is to increase functional strength.This is wildly dependent on your body and goals.
I DO front squat- but unhappily. My front squat is very pretty- but it does bother my knees- and I'm not even going particularly heavy- as am currently doing 3 x 12 to 15- and of the things I do- this one bothers me the most- so much so I've considered completely removing them and subbing it out for leg extensions and thoracic extensions.
Then go do functional things.1 -
I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.2
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Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
me too! I have to do them with crossed arms, but really have to watch that I stay upright.0 -
Da_Chozen_Juan wrote: »I came across this study,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19002072/
It basically concludes that front squats can be safer for the knee joints than back squats, which sounds appealing to me as I have a past plagued by knee injuries. It also infers that little to no difference was found in muscle activation and development in the athletes who substituted front squats for back squats. Front squats honestly feel more "natural" to me, and I absolutely prefer them over back squats (which I seemingly struggle with and force myself to do because it's thought to be the "king of all exercises). My program has me do 2 squat variations (back squat & Bulgarian split squats), deadlifts, and other lower body accessory movements. I'd rather do front squats & split squats than back squats (for the people that say "just do front & back squats"). Has anybody here substituted the back squat for another movement? If so, have you seen any noticeable differences?
My knees bother me too at times. One thing that helps alleviate that is making sure that I keep the majority of the pressure toward the back half of my foot (pushing through the heels) all the way through the movement. If the your weight starts moving out toward your toes, it's puts a lot of pressure on the maniscus and other parts in the front/side of the knee. Keeping your weight back puts the strain on your glutes/hamstrings, where it should be.0 -
Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
You can use lifting straps around the bar if upur wrist aren't compliant. Third exercise shown here...
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Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
You can use lifting straps around the bar if upur wrist aren't compliant. Third exercise shown here...
Yeah, I love Dead lifts. Did those this morning, and really hit you0 -
Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
When I first started Oly lifting they killed me too...no issues anymore...
https://www.crossfitinvictus.com/blog/tips-for-improved-wrist-mobility/
This stuff helps...
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I do fronts because I can't get the back squat form right. My upper arm feels like I am twisting it in an unnatural position. I do other exercises to target the back of my legs so I hope I am getting the right balance.0
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I do both. For heavy power days I do high bar squats, then for high volume hypertrophy days I do front squats. I prefer high bar since no matter what I always end up with a pain in my collar bone. Never suffered any sort of knee problems with either though.0
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Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.0 -
Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.
I used to do that but eventually became tired of always having to deal with form police saying "well that's not how Olympic lifters do it"
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Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.
I used to do that but eventually became tired of always having to deal with form police saying "well that's not how Olympic lifters do it"
I can't ever here them over the sound of how awesome I am- so it never bothers me.
who the *kitten* comes and critisizes someone doing NO HANDED FRONT SQUATS.
#stabby2 -
Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.
I used to do that but eventually became tired of always having to deal with form police saying "well that's not how Olympic lifters do it"
I can't ever here them over the sound of how awesome I am- so it never bothers me.
who the *kitten* comes and critisizes someone doing NO HANDED FRONT SQUATS.
#stabby
The oly coach actually got me doing my warm up sets without holding on. Something about control and body position.0 -
Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.
I used to do that but eventually became tired of always having to deal with form police saying "well that's not how Olympic lifters do it"
I can't ever here them over the sound of how awesome I am- so it never bothers me.
who the *kitten* comes and critisizes someone doing NO HANDED FRONT SQUATS.
#stabby
Just out of curiosity after seeing your stats on your lifts, how long have you been lifting for? They were pretty damn impressive.
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Willbenchforcupcakes wrote: »Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.
I used to do that but eventually became tired of always having to deal with form police saying "well that's not how Olympic lifters do it"
I can't ever here them over the sound of how awesome I am- so it never bothers me.
who the *kitten* comes and critisizes someone doing NO HANDED FRONT SQUATS.
#stabby
The oly coach actually got me doing my warm up sets without holding on. Something about control and body position.
I actually don't mind it- I mean- it's hard AF- but I like the challenge.Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.
I used to do that but eventually became tired of always having to deal with form police saying "well that's not how Olympic lifters do it"
I can't ever here them over the sound of how awesome I am- so it never bothers me.
who the *kitten* comes and critisizes someone doing NO HANDED FRONT SQUATS.
#stabby
Just out of curiosity after seeing your stats on your lifts, how long have you been lifting for? They were pretty damn impressive.
almost 2 decades- I started lifting heavy things when I was a kid (horse ranch)- and high school included weight training for the off season of cross country- I was introduced formally to oly/power lifting in college- but actual weight lifting and developing of strength began when I was a child. I'm fortunate my family never tried to make me "look" a certain way- or make me "stop doing" those things. I love lifting- I always have.
The words "raging lady lifter boner" actually crossed my lips yesterday- because I get THAT kind of excited about lifting. just- so awesome. I LOVE lifting.2 -
I do fronts because I can't get the back squat form right. My upper arm feels like I am twisting it in an unnatural position. I do other exercises to target the back of my legs so I hope I am getting the right balance.
Same here. My upper arms really hurt (I think it may be flexibility). Plus the fact that my right shoulder has about 95% of its mobility back after a long stretch of adhesive capsulitis, but I still can't do back squats (just tried the bar alone) without pain in the right upper arm. I am having trouble trying to do front squats even with little weight - it feels like my quads are about to get ripped into two pieces well before my knees bend enough to reach parallel. I was using a broomstick just to get my arms and wrists into the right form.
ETA: I don't have trouble doing goblet squats though.1 -
Willbenchforcupcakes wrote: »Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.
I used to do that but eventually became tired of always having to deal with form police saying "well that's not how Olympic lifters do it"
I can't ever here them over the sound of how awesome I am- so it never bothers me.
who the *kitten* comes and critisizes someone doing NO HANDED FRONT SQUATS.
#stabby
The oly coach actually got me doing my warm up sets without holding on. Something about control and body position.
I actually don't mind it- I mean- it's hard AF- but I like the challenge.Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.
I used to do that but eventually became tired of always having to deal with form police saying "well that's not how Olympic lifters do it"
I can't ever here them over the sound of how awesome I am- so it never bothers me.
who the *kitten* comes and critisizes someone doing NO HANDED FRONT SQUATS.
#stabby
Just out of curiosity after seeing your stats on your lifts, how long have you been lifting for? They were pretty damn impressive.
almost 2 decades- I started lifting heavy things when I was a kid (horse ranch)- and high school included weight training for the off season of cross country- I was introduced formally to oly/power lifting in college- but actual weight lifting and developing of strength began when I was a child. I'm fortunate my family never tried to make me "look" a certain way- or make me "stop doing" those things. I love lifting- I always have.
The words "raging lady lifter boner" actually crossed my lips yesterday- because I get THAT kind of excited about lifting. just- so awesome. I LOVE lifting.
That's pretty sweet, I know the feeling you're talking about. You wake up in the morning and the first thing you think about is hopping into a power rack that day when you're done work.
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Flapjack_Mollases wrote: »I have to stick with back squats. Front squats are HELL on my wrists.
I don't hold the bar at all- I broke my left arm as a child and the set the bones completely fkered up- so it's almost impossible for me to actually do front squats with the "traditional" positioning for more than 1-5 reps- and I can't do them at all heavy- or for high reps. I do cross grip- but mostly since I'm high rep- eventually my shoulders give out so now I just don't told the bar and hold my hands out in front of my face.
I used to do that but eventually became tired of always having to deal with form police saying "well that's not how Olympic lifters do it"
So turn so you're facing them. Do your squats that way, but with middle fingers raised.4
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