Whole Foods- Plant based diet
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I went vegan overnight. I have made mistakes and even "paused" the veganism when I went on vacation in Europe. I love the Forks over Knives doc and I try to eat as closely as I can to this. I would start with small things, like switching from milk to a plant milk. Doing Meatless days, then eventually vegan days. One of the biggest things I took away from FOK is that you don't need to cook with oil/fat, even on a vegan diet. I "fry" and sauté with water or broth and it tastes just as good. I don't hit the 80/10/10 macros, but I try to eat as whole-food plant-based as I can.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »What I find quite humorous is that the vegans are telling us we're killing ourselves with meat...
The keto crowd tells us we're killing ourselves with carbs...
Religious fringe dieting much?
Spoiler alert: We're all gonna die.3 -
Also, know the reasons why you'd want to go plant based. Some meat eaters are hella touchy and feel personally offended that you don't eat meat or dairy anymore. I went vegan for the animals. The health benefits are an added bonus.
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crzycatlady1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »live2dream wrote: »It's funny when people say it's propaganda. It's facts. The trillion dollar meat and dairy industry is the real propaganda. You can't turn on the TV or walk/drive down the street without being inundated with ads promoting it, and then the next commercial is pharmaceuticals. Why are people so sick? Hmmmm I wonder. Hint: it's not the plant foods.
I have a group on here - Happy herbivores. The only thing we sell is good vibes - for free
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/45-happy-herbivores
Feel free to join for advice. We'd love to have you.
I'm really uncomfortable with the idea that going plant-based or vegan is some sort of insurance against illness or that people who are sick should be blamed for their illnesses. Virginia Messina says it better than I do (as usual).
"Disease shaming alienates and ostracizes people. Vegans may be afraid to share their diagnosis with others. They may not ask for much-needed support because they worry about feeling judged. Some may be reluctant to admit that they have chosen conventional treatment for their cancer instead of trying to cure it through some raw, low-fat, alkaline, whole foods vegan diet. But, there is no evidence that any particular diet, whole foods plant-based or otherwise, can cure cancer. Believe it or not (sorry, Hippocrates) sometimes you have to let medicine be thy medicine."
http://www.theveganrd.com/2014/12/vegan-diets-cancer-and-disease-shaming.html
I've read a couple of her books and while I'm not a vegan I really respect her. Solid stuff
There actually is evidence that certain foods slow down the various stages of cancer development, there most certainly is. You said you read the book, but don't want to go there for whatever reason. That is precisely the research that many doctors have to acknowledge when assessing treatment of certain cancers. I'm not saying I don't respect anyone's decision for eating an omnivorous diet, however I am a woman of science and I cannot deny the evidence. Animal proteins have been found to increase the rate and mass of certain cancers. Plant protein has been shown to slow and haunt growth at various stages...I'm doing it...I'm citing Dr. Campbell book, The China Study.0 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »live2dream wrote: »It's funny when people say it's propaganda. It's facts. The trillion dollar meat and dairy industry is the real propaganda. You can't turn on the TV or walk/drive down the street without being inundated with ads promoting it, and then the next commercial is pharmaceuticals. Why are people so sick? Hmmmm I wonder. Hint: it's not the plant foods.
I have a group on here - Happy herbivores. The only thing we sell is good vibes - for freehttp://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/45-happy-herbivores
Feel free to join for advice. We'd love to have you.
I'm really uncomfortable with the idea that going plant-based or vegan is some sort of insurance against illness or that people who are sick should be blamed for their illnesses. Virginia Messina says it better than I do (as usual).
"Disease shaming alienates and ostracizes people. Vegans may be afraid to share their diagnosis with others. They may not ask for much-needed support because they worry about feeling judged. Some may be reluctant to admit that they have chosen conventional treatment for their cancer instead of trying to cure it through some raw, low-fat, alkaline, whole foods vegan diet. But, there is no evidence that any particular diet, whole foods plant-based or otherwise, can cure cancer. Believe it or not (sorry, Hippocrates) sometimes you have to let medicine be thy medicine."
http://www.theveganrd.com/2014/12/vegan-diets-cancer-and-disease-shaming.html
I've read a couple of her books and while I'm not a vegan I really respect her. Solid stuff
There actually is evidence that certain foods slow down the various stages of cancer development, there most certainly is. You said you read the book, but don't want to go there for whatever reason. That is precisely the research that many doctors have to acknowledge when assessing treatment of certain cancers. I'm not saying I don't respect anyone's decision for eating an omnivorous diet, however I am a woman of science and I cannot deny the evidence. Animal proteins have been found to increase the rate and mass of certain cancers. Plant protein has been shown to slow and haunt growth at various stages...I'm doing it...I'm citing Dr. Campbell book, The China Study.
so your lone citation is one book that has been debunked?4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.0 -
Although it is rare in my experience, I have encountered some non-vegans who do seem personally offended by my veganism or feel as if it is something that is directed at them. Some people, meat-eaters or no, are "hella touchy" and make things about them when they aren't. For those reasons, anyone who is making a decision who goes against the norm may want to be able to easily articulate why they chose to do so (or just decline to answer questions, not everything has to be up for debate).0 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
Do you really believe people who eat vegan or plant-based diets do not get ill/sick/diseased?2 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
It's been criticized by the actual scientific community...not just "people"...you need to do a little more research.
My great grandpa ate meat...he died at 101 of simple old age...news flash...we've been eating meat for millions of years. That's great if you're all about the animals but just stop with your fear mongering bull *kitten* and get off your soap box.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »What I find quite humorous is that the vegans are telling us we're killing ourselves with meat...
The keto crowd tells us we're killing ourselves with carbs...
Religious fringe dieting much?
Spoiler alert: We're all gonna die.
I know...I just find it humorous that so many people from these two groups in particular are so adamant that doing it their way will help us live so much longer...
and not you...I don't think you've ever come here telling everyone who doesn't do what you do that they're going to get sick and die.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
It's been criticized by the actual scientific community...not just "people"
And Dr. Campbell is a scientific researcher himself...pick your scientist I guess?? Again, there are plenty of scientists who eat meat, plenty of doctors who do as well. I'm just saying respect research and it's quality for what it is, present it without bias and let the people make their own decisions.0 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
I've been eating meat for longer than you've been alive and I'm in great health, it's all good
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I lost over 100 pounds with a WFPB diet and exercise. I started it for health reasons but as I became more immersed and informed I transitioned to full vegan. Get informed and make a decision that is right for you. The world is full of negativity and critics; seek your path, find peace, pursue compassion.2
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Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
It's been criticized by the actual scientific community...not just "people"
And Dr. Campbell is a scientific researcher himself...pick your scientist I guess?? Again, there are plenty of scientists who eat meat, plenty of doctors who do as well. I'm just saying respect research and it's quality for what it is, present it without bias and let the people make their own decisions.
Picking by scientist is problematic, I think. We've got to look at the studies, the methods used, and see if conclusions are over-stating the case made by the evidence. In the case of Campbell's work, there are a lot of legitimate doubts.5 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
I've been eating meat for longer than you've been alive and I'm in great health, it's all good
I don't think there is a "blue zone" on the planet where meat is avoided. Some areas eat more, some eat less, but to say that someone can be perfectly healthy eating meat "for a while" just flies in the face of what we currently understand of the eating patterns of the areas with greatest longevity.2 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
It's been criticized by the actual scientific community...not just "people"
And Dr. Campbell is a scientific researcher himself...pick your scientist I guess?? Again, there are plenty of scientists who eat meat, plenty of doctors who do as well. I'm just saying respect research and it's quality for what it is, present it without bias and let the people make their own decisions.
The quality of the research and how he came to his conclusions is what is criticized by many...the data doesn't actually support his conclusions...in his book he purposefully omitted data that was contradictory to his conclusions and cherry picked...there's plenty out there on this from the scientific community....again, not just "people"...he would appear to have been influenced by his own expectations and therefore biased. Much of the scientific community has called him out on this...it's agenda driven bias.
And actually, we're designed to eat meat...if that weren't the case, B12 wouldn't be essential to us...but it is...and you don't get it anywhere else besides meat or supplements.4 -
double
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cwolfman13 wrote: »double
People will only get sick and die if they disregard my opinions on very important things like movie theater etiquette.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
It's been criticized by the actual scientific community...not just "people"
And Dr. Campbell is a scientific researcher himself...pick your scientist I guess?? Again, there are plenty of scientists who eat meat, plenty of doctors who do as well. I'm just saying respect research and it's quality for what it is, present it without bias and let the people make their own decisions.
The quality of the research and how he came to his conclusions is what is criticized by many...the data doesn't actually support his conclusions...in his book he purposefully omitted data that was contradictory to his conclusions and cherry picked...there's plenty out there on this from the scientific community....again, not just "people"...he would appear to have been influenced by his own expectations and therefore biased. Much of the scientific community has called him out on this...it's agenda driven bias.
And actually, we're designed to eat meat...if that weren't the case, B12 wouldn't be essential to us...but it is...and you don't get it anywhere else besides meat or supplements.
Actually not true, we used to be able to get vitamin B12 from the earth left of crops and drinking stream water...before all the people and pollution. We now add chemicals to water, which means less bacteria and viruses (obviously a good thing) but renders the vitamin B12 useless. Again we were designed perfectly to be plant eaters.0 -
KeepRunningFatboy wrote: »I lost over 100 pounds with a WFPB diet and exercise. I started it for health reasons but as I became more immersed and informed I transitioned to full vegan. Get informed and make a decision that is right for you. The world is full of negativity and critics; seek your path, find peace, pursue compassion.
Great outlook ☺0 -
If you are looking to transition try watching the engine 2 diet on Netflix. Or plant pure nation also on Netflix.
I would not put much stock in what the MFP professional commentary staff have to say.0 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
It's been criticized by the actual scientific community...not just "people"
And Dr. Campbell is a scientific researcher himself...pick your scientist I guess?? Again, there are plenty of scientists who eat meat, plenty of doctors who do as well. I'm just saying respect research and it's quality for what it is, present it without bias and let the people make their own decisions.
The quality of the research and how he came to his conclusions is what is criticized by many...the data doesn't actually support his conclusions...in his book he purposefully omitted data that was contradictory to his conclusions and cherry picked...there's plenty out there on this from the scientific community....again, not just "people"...he would appear to have been influenced by his own expectations and therefore biased. Much of the scientific community has called him out on this...it's agenda driven bias.
And actually, we're designed to eat meat...if that weren't the case, B12 wouldn't be essential to us...but it is...and you don't get it anywhere else besides meat or supplements.
Actually not true, we used to be able to get vitamin B12 from the earth left of crops and drinking stream water...before all the people and pollution. We now add chemicals to water, which means less bacteria and viruses (obviously a good thing) but renders the vitamin B12 useless. Again we were designed perfectly to be plant eaters.
And yet we've been eating meat for millions of years...just stop already with your fear mongering bull *kitten*. The problem isn't meat...the problem is the SAD...people don't eat enough plants and eat a lot of junk...it's not the meat. The blue zone regions of the world all eat meat in varying degrees as stated by another fellow...and frankly more reasonable vegan...these are some of the healthiest populations on the planet
By the by, I eat an *kitten* load of plants...I'm substantively plant based and I eat meat...mostly wild caught fish and chicken from up the road.
Personally, I think people like you do a great disservice to your cause...
4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
It's been criticized by the actual scientific community...not just "people"
And Dr. Campbell is a scientific researcher himself...pick your scientist I guess?? Again, there are plenty of scientists who eat meat, plenty of doctors who do as well. I'm just saying respect research and it's quality for what it is, present it without bias and let the people make their own decisions.
The quality of the research and how he came to his conclusions is what is criticized by many...the data doesn't actually support his conclusions...in his book he purposefully omitted data that was contradictory to his conclusions and cherry picked...there's plenty out there on this from the scientific community....again, not just "people"...he would appear to have been influenced by his own expectations and therefore biased. Much of the scientific community has called him out on this...it's agenda driven bias.
And actually, we're designed to eat meat...if that weren't the case, B12 wouldn't be essential to us...but it is...and you don't get it anywhere else besides meat or supplements.
Actually not true, we used to be able to get vitamin B12 from the earth left of crops and drinking stream water...before all the people and pollution. We now add chemicals to water, which means less bacteria and viruses (obviously a good thing) but renders the vitamin B12 useless. Again we were designed perfectly to be plant eaters.
And yet we've been eating meat for millions of years...just stop already with your fear mongering bull *kitten*. The problem isn't meat...the problem is the SAD...people don't eat enough plants and eat a lot of junk...it's not the meat. The blue zone regions of the world all eat meat in varying degrees as stated by another fellow...and frankly more reasonable vegan...these are some of the healthiest populations on the planet
By the by, I eat an *kitten* load of plants...I'm substantively plant based and I eat meat...mostly wild caught fish and chicken from up the road.
Personally, I think people like you do a great disservice to your cause...
It is not about the fact humans have been eating meat for millions of years. This is true. And it is OK to eat meat. But it is how much we eat. Unfortunately that magic number is not known. But what is known is our bodies do not need it.0 -
shelleyrhoads wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »I've seen that 'documentary,' as well as most of the others floating around, and just be careful to take them with a grain of salt. They're made with a definite agenda-to sell something. In the case of the Forks over Knives people-they sell books, online 'cooking' lessons ($350) and things like lectures that start at $300 for a one day event. So yeah, that raises all sorts of red flags.
Forks Over Knives is based on the research of the greatest nutritional study ever conducted, The China Study, by Dr. Campbell. While this is my opinion, it is also the opinion of the scientific community in biochemistry, and nutritional studies around the world. To say that this documentary was intended to sell material things and not some the greatest health information available is kind of sad. With all the confusing information about nutrition, this data should be everyone's duty to explore themselves and make their own judgements. Keeping an open mind is critical in uncovering information about our health and science. You can always the deny evidence, it's easy, many people do not want to change habits. They don't want to be told eating animals isn't necessary, or much more, making them sick.
You should actually look into that a bit more...that study has been much criticized...
I do eat a primarily whole foods diet and I eat animals...and I am very healthy. I started out not so much but took my LDL from 160s to 90...HDL from 25 to 55...pre-diabetic blood glucose levels are now normal...etc, etc, etc...please tell me again how I'm killing myself by eating animals...
It's will always be criticized, always. It's not popular to tell someone their food choices may be hurting their health. However, I'm not saying you can't be perfectly healthy eating meat...for a while.
I do however say that with the population inceasing, meat and animal agricultural is not sustainable...period. The health evidence, the UN report concerning global warming and fact that we don't need animal product to thrive as humans is good enough for me.
It's been criticized by the actual scientific community...not just "people"
And Dr. Campbell is a scientific researcher himself...pick your scientist I guess?? Again, there are plenty of scientists who eat meat, plenty of doctors who do as well. I'm just saying respect research and it's quality for what it is, present it without bias and let the people make their own decisions.
The quality of the research and how he came to his conclusions is what is criticized by many...the data doesn't actually support his conclusions...in his book he purposefully omitted data that was contradictory to his conclusions and cherry picked...there's plenty out there on this from the scientific community....again, not just "people"...he would appear to have been influenced by his own expectations and therefore biased. Much of the scientific community has called him out on this...it's agenda driven bias.
And actually, we're designed to eat meat...if that weren't the case, B12 wouldn't be essential to us...but it is...and you don't get it anywhere else besides meat or supplements.
Actually not true, we used to be able to get vitamin B12 from the earth left of crops and drinking stream water...before all the people and pollution. We now add chemicals to water, which means less bacteria and viruses (obviously a good thing) but renders the vitamin B12 useless. Again we were designed perfectly to be plant eaters.
And yet we've been eating meat for millions of years...just stop already with your fear mongering bull *kitten*. The problem isn't meat...the problem is the SAD...people don't eat enough plants and eat a lot of junk...it's not the meat. The blue zone regions of the world all eat meat in varying degrees as stated by another fellow...and frankly more reasonable vegan...these are some of the healthiest populations on the planet
By the by, I eat an *kitten* load of plants...I'm substantively plant based and I eat meat...mostly wild caught fish and chicken from up the road.
Personally, I think people like you do a great disservice to your cause...
It is not about the fact humans have been eating meat for millions of years. This is true. And it is OK to eat meat. But it is how much we eat. Unfortunately that magic number is not known. But what is known is our bodies do not need it.
We don't need meet...we don't need carbs...pretty soon we're just going to not need anything...you zealots crack me up...one of the regular keto peeps here insists we don't need vegetables at all...y'all are a riot.4 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »live2dream wrote: »It's funny when people say it's propaganda. It's facts. The trillion dollar meat and dairy industry is the real propaganda. You can't turn on the TV or walk/drive down the street without being inundated with ads promoting it, and then the next commercial is pharmaceuticals. Why are people so sick? Hmmmm I wonder. Hint: it's not the plant foods.
I have a group on here - Happy herbivores. The only thing we sell is good vibes - for freehttp://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/45-happy-herbivores
Feel free to join for advice. We'd love to have you.
I'm really uncomfortable with the idea that going plant-based or vegan is some sort of insurance against illness or that people who are sick should be blamed for their illnesses. Virginia Messina says it better than I do (as usual).
"Disease shaming alienates and ostracizes people. Vegans may be afraid to share their diagnosis with others. They may not ask for much-needed support because they worry about feeling judged. Some may be reluctant to admit that they have chosen conventional treatment for their cancer instead of trying to cure it through some raw, low-fat, alkaline, whole foods vegan diet. But, there is no evidence that any particular diet, whole foods plant-based or otherwise, can cure cancer. Believe it or not (sorry, Hippocrates) sometimes you have to let medicine be thy medicine."
http://www.theveganrd.com/2014/12/vegan-diets-cancer-and-disease-shaming.html
I've read a couple of her books and while I'm not a vegan I really respect her. Solid stuff
There actually is evidence that certain foods slow down the various stages of cancer development, there most certainly is. You said you read the book, but don't want to go there for whatever reason. That is precisely the research that many doctors have to acknowledge when assessing treatment of certain cancers. I'm not saying I don't respect anyone's decision for eating an omnivorous diet, however I am a woman of science and I cannot deny the evidence. Animal proteins have been found to increase the rate and mass of certain cancers. Plant protein has been shown to slow and haunt growth at various stages...I'm doing it...I'm citing Dr. Campbell book, The China Study.
so your lone citation is one book that has been debunked?
No actually, I work with many healthcare professionals, Chemo and infusion, and have seen a lot on the topic first hand. Just because I reference one book, doesn't mean it was one study, this is research that started in the 60's, and now has been implemented into numerous universities and nutritional education programs.
No more on the topic, if you feel you are informed, great, that's your decision. Just keep being informed and having an open mind.
I used to knock vegans and swore I didn't want to take a supplement for something I could just eat...b12 blah blah blah. My mind changed the more I dug into the science, there are numerous funded vegan studies happening right now, not just this "one book."1 -
Leslierussell4134 wrote: »Leslierussell4134 wrote: »crzycatlady1 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »live2dream wrote: »It's funny when people say it's propaganda. It's facts. The trillion dollar meat and dairy industry is the real propaganda. You can't turn on the TV or walk/drive down the street without being inundated with ads promoting it, and then the next commercial is pharmaceuticals. Why are people so sick? Hmmmm I wonder. Hint: it's not the plant foods.
I have a group on here - Happy herbivores. The only thing we sell is good vibes - for freehttp://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/45-happy-herbivores
Feel free to join for advice. We'd love to have you.
I'm really uncomfortable with the idea that going plant-based or vegan is some sort of insurance against illness or that people who are sick should be blamed for their illnesses. Virginia Messina says it better than I do (as usual).
"Disease shaming alienates and ostracizes people. Vegans may be afraid to share their diagnosis with others. They may not ask for much-needed support because they worry about feeling judged. Some may be reluctant to admit that they have chosen conventional treatment for their cancer instead of trying to cure it through some raw, low-fat, alkaline, whole foods vegan diet. But, there is no evidence that any particular diet, whole foods plant-based or otherwise, can cure cancer. Believe it or not (sorry, Hippocrates) sometimes you have to let medicine be thy medicine."
http://www.theveganrd.com/2014/12/vegan-diets-cancer-and-disease-shaming.html
I've read a couple of her books and while I'm not a vegan I really respect her. Solid stuff
There actually is evidence that certain foods slow down the various stages of cancer development, there most certainly is. You said you read the book, but don't want to go there for whatever reason. That is precisely the research that many doctors have to acknowledge when assessing treatment of certain cancers. I'm not saying I don't respect anyone's decision for eating an omnivorous diet, however I am a woman of science and I cannot deny the evidence. Animal proteins have been found to increase the rate and mass of certain cancers. Plant protein has been shown to slow and haunt growth at various stages...I'm doing it...I'm citing Dr. Campbell book, The China Study.
so your lone citation is one book that has been debunked?
No actually, I work with many healthcare professionals, Chemo and infusion, and have seen a lot on the topic first hand. Just because I reference one book, doesn't mean it was one study, this is research that started in the 60's, and now has been implemented into numerous universities and nutritional education programs.
No more on the topic, if you feel you are informed, great, that's your decision. Just keep being informed and having an open mind.
I used to knock vegans and swore I didn't want to take a supplement for something I could just eat...b12 blah blah blah. My mind changed the more I dug into the science, there are numerous funded vegan studies happening right now, not just this "one book."
You are the one that listed debunked science as your source, speaks volumes.3 -
I think vegan can work great for some people. I think meat works great for others.
I have a good friend who improved her health with vegetarianism. Me? I need low carb (keto infidel here) in order to be healthy. Plus my stomach can't handle many vegetables.0 -
Currently watching the same documentary.0
This discussion has been closed.
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