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CICO is not the whole equation
Replies
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WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Losing weight and keeping it off is far more about your relationship with food and being in control over hunger and cravings than CICO.
CICO is how it works. Fixing your relationship with food, etc., is how you make sure you are where you want to be with CICO. If you seem them as incompatible things or opposed to each other, I think you are misunderstanding what people mean by CICO. It's not a type of diet.
As for how to achieve CICO, what strategically will work, it differs depending on the person. There are some good tips that work for many, but there's no one-size-fits all.
And one more endorsement!
This thread is making my head spin, it's circling endlessly around the same few egocentric concepts, regardless of science and common sense.
We all agree the only way to lose weight is to eat less than you burn (CI<CO) but
I see a lot of fat people with health problems so clearly CICO doesn't work so
Telling people to eat less and/or move more is wrong
The only way to lose weight is to eat like ME because
That's the way I eat and I'm healthy
So there
Did I miss anything?
You forgot:
"sure if all you care about is weight loss, CICO will work, but if you want to be healthy, there is more to it than that"
Of course there is. Or fit as a fiddle Bob Harper might not have had a heart attack.2 -
Russellb97 wrote: »The difference between overweight people and non-overweight people is those who aren't trying to lose weight are not worried, stressed, frustrated, ashamed, or pre-occupied with what they are going to eat and when they will eat it. It's food controlling us or us controlling our food.
Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
I'll tell you what, being free from the "diligence" and pre-occupation with food is almost as satisfying as losing 130 lbs.
There are tons of non overweight people who obsess over food and their bodies especially women. Body dysmorphia is a real issue.6 -
Russellb97 wrote: »The difference between overweight people and non-overweight people is those who aren't trying to lose weight are not worried, stressed, frustrated, ashamed, or pre-occupied with what they are going to eat and when they will eat it. It's food controlling us or us controlling our food.
Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
I'll tell you what, being free from the "diligence" and pre-occupation with food is almost as satisfying as losing 130 lbs.
Would you mind linking which study you are referring to in the bold?
Thank you!11 -
Traveler120 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Losing weight and keeping it off is far more about your relationship with food and being in control over hunger and cravings than CICO.
CICO is how it works. Fixing your relationship with food, etc., is how you make sure you are where you want to be with CICO. If you seem them as incompatible things or opposed to each other, I think you are misunderstanding what people mean by CICO. It's not a type of diet.
As for how to achieve CICO, what strategically will work, it differs depending on the person. There are some good tips that work for many, but there's no one-size-fits all.
And one more endorsement!
This thread is making my head spin, it's circling endlessly around the same few egocentric concepts, regardless of science and common sense.
We all agree the only way to lose weight is to eat less than you burn (CI<CO) but
I see a lot of fat people with health problems so clearly CICO doesn't work so
Telling people to eat less and/or move more is wrong
The only way to lose weight is to eat like ME because
That's the way I eat and I'm healthy
So there
Did I miss anything?
You forgot:
"sure if all you care about is weight loss, CICO will work, but if you want to be healthy, there is more to it than that"
Of course there is. Or fit as a fiddle Bob Harper might not have had a heart attack.
Well of course there is, but saying that CICO is what matters for weight loss is not saying to ignore health and nutrition.....4 -
I'm thinking that it seems to me that many times when I read about CICO ... especially be newbie dieters or restarters, that they think the difference between input and output must be huge, and cut their calories extremely while upping their activitity extremely. And I think this is because of wanting a pretty immediate result ... like; just get this done and overwith, then "I" can go back to living my life again ... and that just seems, if it is the thought process, to be just way off base.
You don't need a huge deficit between the "i" and "o", and you needn't abrubtly change your fitness routine ... and you do need to be patient and learn, not only the reason behind it, but how to alter the issues that caused the unwanted weight status int he first place.4 -
Russellb97 wrote: »The difference between overweight people and non-overweight people is those who aren't trying to lose weight are not worried, stressed, frustrated, ashamed, or pre-occupied with what they are going to eat and when they will eat it. It's food controlling us or us controlling our food.
Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
I'll tell you what, being free from the "diligence" and pre-occupation with food is almost as satisfying as losing 130 lbs.
Would you mind linking which study you are referring to in the bold?
Thank you!
Soda and sweets aren't making Americans fat. In fact, underweight Americans consume more junk food than those who are morbidly obese.
In a new study in the journal Obesity Science & Practice, Cornell professors analyzed the food intake of about 6,000 people, according to MarketWatch. The study found that consuming more fast food, candy and soda was not correlated with higher body mass indexes—“While a diet of chocolate bars and cheeseburgers washed down with a Coke is inadvisable from a nutritional standpoint, these foods are not likely to be a leading cause of obesity."
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Look_Its_Kriss wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »The difference between overweight people and non-overweight people is those who aren't trying to lose weight are not worried, stressed, frustrated, ashamed, or pre-occupied with what they are going to eat and when they will eat it. It's food controlling us or us controlling our food.
Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
I'll tell you what, being free from the "diligence" and pre-occupation with food is almost as satisfying as losing 130 lbs.
Would you mind linking which study you are referring to in the bold?
Thank you!
Soda and sweets aren't making Americans fat. In fact, underweight Americans consume more junk food than those who are morbidly obese.
In a new study in the journal Obesity Science & Practice, Cornell professors analyzed the food intake of about 6,000 people, according to MarketWatch. The study found that consuming more fast food, candy and soda was not correlated with higher body mass indexes—“While a diet of chocolate bars and cheeseburgers washed down with a Coke is inadvisable from a nutritional standpoint, these foods are not likely to be a leading cause of obesity."
Do you have an actual link tho?
http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/discoveries/junk-food-blame0 -
Does it specify anywhere if the soda was regular or diet or just soda in general?0
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Does dieting really make you eat more?
http://www.enlightenprogramme.co.uk/does-dieting-really-make-you-eat-more/
Posted on March 6, 2013 | Leave a comment
Various research suggests that going on a diet can actually make you eat more.
When you’re happy with your weight and have never dieted, you rely on your body to tell you when to eat and (crucially) when to stop.
But when you diet, this simple process goes very wrong. My clients often say: “As soon as I decide to go on a diet, I get this desperate urge to eat!”
And, whilst they are “good” for a while and stick to the diet, if they ever break the diet and start eating, then they REALLY eat, wolfing food down like young Labrador retrievers.
The ice cream experiment
Psychologists have investigated the effect of dieting on food intake, using dieting and non dieting students. The students were invited to eat as much ice cream as they liked after being given one of three different “pre loads”: one milk shake, two milk shakes or nothing at all.
The non dieters behaved as expected, eating less ice cream after one milk shake than none, and even less ice cream after two. But the dieters actually ate the most ice cream when they’d had the two milk shake, super sized “pre load”!
According to the psychologists, the effect of the milk shake preload was to undermine the dieters’ resolve, so they temporarily gave up their dieting abstinence. After the two milk shake pre load, the dieters decided the diet had been blown out of the water anyway, so they may as well make the most of the situation, and enjoy the ice cream!
This is a feeling which all dieters must recognise. After succumbing to one biscuit you think: “Oh, sod it, I’ve broken the diet anyway. May as well eat the whole packet, and the diet starts again tomorrow!”
The stressful film experiment
By denying themselves, dieters also make food much more important and give it emotional significance that it does not have for non dieters. For instance, dieters are more likely than non dieters to turn to food when they are anxious or depressed.
At a recent study carried out in London, female volunteers were divided into three groups: the first went on a strict diet, the second underwent a rigorous exercise programme and the third neither dieted nor exercised.
After five weeks, the researchers measured the women’s food intake while they watched a stressful film. Bowls of sweets and nuts were left beside the women and they were told to eat as they liked. Even though none of the women were hungry, those in the diet group ate far more than the others.0 -
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https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=marietta1271708395&disposition=inline
Other researchers have found that guilt about chocolate consumption is also found in children aged 11,
12, and 13, particularly among girls (Cartwright, Stritzke, Durkin, Houghton, Burke, & Beilin,
2007). Negative reactions are not just limited to eating, as some women express dissatisfaction
over simply being exposed to high-calorie foods (Fett, Lattimore, Roefs, Geschwind, & Jansen,
2009).
Despite the widespread availability of fast food and concern over its effects on the
American diet, little has been done to study emotional reactions to fast food consumption.
When “What Tastes Right” 8
Following previous research on reaction to high-calorie versus low-calorie foods and filling a
gap in fast food and gender research, the present study investigates negative emotions such as
guilt and shame in college-aged men and women who choose to eat either fast food or salad.
Guilt and shame are strong emotions, and understanding the role they play in fast food
consumption may lead to a greater understanding of why people continue to eat so poorly at ever
alarming rates. In an effort to qualify data, an exploratory measure was also used for people who
choose fast food: these participants were asked to provide reasons for why they react negatively
to fast food consumption.0 -
Omg@26 pages1
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@Russellb97 I guess you have never know normal or underweight people with eating disorders. Never seen people crying over eating salad or saltines. I have. I've been there myself actually. There is tons of guilt involved. Also have you ever hung around women of every size? I'm sure you'll hear normal weight women complaining about eating to their friends. It's rampant. Not sure why you think guilt and shame are experienced by overweight people.7
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Look_Its_Kriss wrote: »
I have binge eating disorder.
It took medication to stop it.
Once I dealt with the behaviour though CICO was all I did. But the fact that I had behaviours that needed correcting does not change the fact that CICO is really all it is.
So ... you say had a mental illness/eating disorder that needed active intervention to address it before you could make any weight loss progresss yet you're still advocating (in this and other threads) that people just need to focus on CICO and there's nothing more to weight management?
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Look_Its_Kriss wrote: »No. What I am saying is that...
CICO is how you control your weight.
If there is something preventing you from doing so... Be it eating disorder. Emotional eating. Trigger foods. Etc. Then that issue needs to be addressed.
Once the issue is addressed then it's simply CICO.
If it wasn't then I'd still be struggling with my weight despite medication and therapy.
So I guess you could consider all those other impacting things to be part of the weight loss - not just energy balance - equation.
It's fair to say the ratio of CICO is greatly affected by emotional, psychological, socioeconomic ect etc factors. Hence, all kinds of things 'matter to weight loss'.
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Water weight isn't fat weight. Since there is no calories in water, it shouldn't be counted as an energy source.Amy_QueenInTraining wrote: »*following. (And my two cents: You are right, it is not the whole equation. Personally, sodium consumption, time of day I eat, and how I exercise all contribute to my weight)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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singingflutelady wrote: »@Russellb97 I guess you have never know normal or underweight people with eating disorders. Never seen people crying over eating salad or saltines. I have. I've been there myself actually. There is tons of guilt involved. Also have you ever hung around women of every size? I'm sure you'll hear normal weight women complaining about eating to their friends. It's rampant. Not sure why you think guilt and shame are experienced by overweight people.
Never said only and I'm sorry it came out that way. I'm also not here to cause a fight. My point is when you are in control of your hunger and cravings CICO becomes far less difficult to manage.
From my own experience, I see obesity as a mental health issue. And self-image, shame, and guilt are at the core of it.1 -
Russellb97 wrote: »Look_Its_Kriss wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »Russellb97 wrote: »The difference between overweight people and non-overweight people is those who aren't trying to lose weight are not worried, stressed, frustrated, ashamed, or pre-occupied with what they are going to eat and when they will eat it. It's food controlling us or us controlling our food.
Studies have shown that overweight people exercise more often than non-overweight and non-overweight people eat more junk for than those who are overweight.
I'll tell you what, being free from the "diligence" and pre-occupation with food is almost as satisfying as losing 130 lbs.
Would you mind linking which study you are referring to in the bold?
Thank you!
Soda and sweets aren't making Americans fat. In fact, underweight Americans consume more junk food than those who are morbidly obese.
In a new study in the journal Obesity Science & Practice, Cornell professors analyzed the food intake of about 6,000 people, according to MarketWatch. The study found that consuming more fast food, candy and soda was not correlated with higher body mass indexes—“While a diet of chocolate bars and cheeseburgers washed down with a Coke is inadvisable from a nutritional standpoint, these foods are not likely to be a leading cause of obesity."
Do you have an actual link tho?
http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/discoveries/junk-food-blame
This is the actual study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5063171/
I just jumped to the conflict of interest statement:
"Conflict of Interest Statement
No conflict of interest was declared. Dr. Wansink is a member of McDonald's Global Advisory Council,..."
So, no, I'm not going to waste my time reading it.
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The food quality isn't impacting their death rates much. Inmates have been living for YEARS on low quality prison food. They have a much higher chance dying of venereal disease or getting shanked, than from the food they eat on a daily basis.
What does this have to do with CICO not being the whole equation?geneticexpectations wrote: »That's cool. I understand and accept that there is a difference in perception of what food means to each of us.
Let me ask another hopefully provocative question - and this is in the light that I am a quality over quantity guy, ie, I do "primal" dieting sticking to whole foods, buy all my meats pastured/grassfed from individual farmers etc.
WHO DO THE CEO's OF BIG FOOD LIKE BETTER?
(ie, the people who make billions$$$$ off of non-whole foods, not like the farmers who I buy from who just get by).
Me
or
You (Referring to the people who responded to my recent post).
??????
How about this: why isn't the prison population full of obese people if quality of food REALLY matters?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's only really relevant if you're still talking ONLY about weight not health.
If you want to look at the impact of food quality using prison populations you would need to compare the prevalence of disease amongst this cohort to those eating a 'better' quality but equal caloric diet in the community, in a similar socioeconomic group. Not just weight.
(I don't know how to put all my qualifications in as a little footer so I'll just leave them off, heh?)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Water weight isn't fat weight. Since there is no calories in water, it shouldn't be counted as an energy source.Amy_QueenInTraining wrote: »*following. (And my two cents: You are right, it is not the whole equation. Personally, sodium consumption, time of day I eat, and how I exercise all contribute to my weight)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Kilograms made up of water still count as weight regardless of being devoid of energy.
You don't weigh just your fat when you step on the scales.
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The food quality isn't impacting their death rates much. Inmates have been living for YEARS on low quality prison food. They have a much higher chance dying of venereal disease or getting shanked, than from the food they eat on a daily basis.
What does this have to do with CICO not being the whole equation?geneticexpectations wrote: »That's cool. I understand and accept that there is a difference in perception of what food means to each of us.
Let me ask another hopefully provocative question - and this is in the light that I am a quality over quantity guy, ie, I do "primal" dieting sticking to whole foods, buy all my meats pastured/grassfed from individual farmers etc.
WHO DO THE CEO's OF BIG FOOD LIKE BETTER?
(ie, the people who make billions$$$$ off of non-whole foods, not like the farmers who I buy from who just get by).
Me
or
You (Referring to the people who responded to my recent post).
??????
How about this: why isn't the prison population full of obese people if quality of food REALLY matters?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
That's only really relevant if you're still talking ONLY about weight not health.
If you want to look at the impact of food quality using prison populations you would need to compare the prevalence of disease amongst this cohort to those eating a 'better' quality but equal caloric diet in the community, in a similar socioeconomic group. Not just weight.
(I don't know how to put all my qualifications in as a little footer so I'll just leave them off, heh?)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
All that statement says is that it would be hard to do an actual comparison on the health of these population due to variables such as premature death by other causes.
My comment was that your point about obesity rates in prison demonstrating that diet quality was irrelevant was not really looking at the right things to draw that kind of a conclusion.
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Lol, okay so you weigh yourself before you pee, then after you pee. You really consider that "weight loss"? It might make one feel better, but the reality is that it had no impact on actual loss of fat.
Water weight isn't fat weight. Since there is no calories in water, it shouldn't be counted as an energy source.Amy_QueenInTraining wrote: »*following. (And my two cents: You are right, it is not the whole equation. Personally, sodium consumption, time of day I eat, and how I exercise all contribute to my weight)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Kilograms made up of water still count as weight regardless of being devoid of energy.
You don't weigh just your fat when you step on the scales.
It's the same as gaining weight from drinking 8oz of water and weighing 8oz more after. Is someone really going to attribute that to gaining weight?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Lol, okay so you weigh yourself before you pee, then after you pee. You really consider that "weight loss"? It might make one feel better, but the reality is that it had no impact on actual loss of fat.
Water weight isn't fat weight. Since there is no calories in water, it shouldn't be counted as an energy source.Amy_QueenInTraining wrote: »*following. (And my two cents: You are right, it is not the whole equation. Personally, sodium consumption, time of day I eat, and how I exercise all contribute to my weight)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Kilograms made up of water still count as weight regardless of being devoid of energy.
You don't weigh just your fat when you step on the scales.
It's the same as gaining weight from drinking 8oz of water and weighing 8oz more after. Is someone really going to attribute that to gaining weight?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A full bladder is hardly the same as water retained in cells due to osmotic pressures.
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Agreed, but if someone gains 4lbs in day after a high sodium meal the day before even though they ate within calorie restrictions, it's pretty obvious that it's water weight gain and shouldn't be construed as being a CICO issue. That's the point I'm making here.
Lol, okay so you weigh yourself before you pee, then after you pee. You really consider that "weight loss"? It might make one feel better, but the reality is that it had no impact on actual loss of fat.
Water weight isn't fat weight. Since there is no calories in water, it shouldn't be counted as an energy source.Amy_QueenInTraining wrote: »*following. (And my two cents: You are right, it is not the whole equation. Personally, sodium consumption, time of day I eat, and how I exercise all contribute to my weight)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Kilograms made up of water still count as weight regardless of being devoid of energy.
You don't weigh just your fat when you step on the scales.
It's the same as gaining weight from drinking 8oz of water and weighing 8oz more after. Is someone really going to attribute that to gaining weight?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A full bladder is hardly the same as water retained in cells due to osmotic pressures.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Agreed, but if someone gains 4lbs in day after a high sodium meal the day before even though they ate within calorie restrictions, it's pretty obvious that it's water weight gain and shouldn't be construed as being a CICO issue. That's the point I'm making here.
Lol, okay so you weigh yourself before you pee, then after you pee. You really consider that "weight loss"? It might make one feel better, but the reality is that it had no impact on actual loss of fat.
Water weight isn't fat weight. Since there is no calories in water, it shouldn't be counted as an energy source.Amy_QueenInTraining wrote: »*following. (And my two cents: You are right, it is not the whole equation. Personally, sodium consumption, time of day I eat, and how I exercise all contribute to my weight)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Kilograms made up of water still count as weight regardless of being devoid of energy.
You don't weigh just your fat when you step on the scales.
It's the same as gaining weight from drinking 8oz of water and weighing 8oz more after. Is someone really going to attribute that to gaining weight?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A full bladder is hardly the same as water retained in cells due to osmotic pressures.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
True but for person with a diet chronically high in sodium causing greater retention of water then it would certainly be a factor impacting their weight. It's not a CICO issue but it IS a contributing factor to weight loss/gain.
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