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"Clean" eater critical of Low Carb
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That's silly. A low carb diet is actually muscle sparing and if you wish you could shower him with studies saying so. I wouldn't bother though. He sounds like a pompous know it all who isn't worth your time.3
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Get him to participate in the 800g vegetable/fruit challenge. If he's eating clean, it should be super easy for him...right?
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Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »A guy at work, a self proclaimed "clean eater" who doesn't eat sugar or red meat or packaged processed foods (allegedly), said to another coworker that my diet is unhealthy.
How dare he!
And not even to your face!
Thems fighting words and I think this should be settled as a duel. Here are some suggestions:
- Tofu eating contest
- Wheat grass smoothie drinking contest (first to barf loses)
- Bio-metric stand-up. You each submit to a full bio-metric work-up, including (but not limited to) % body fat, VO2max, %HDL/LDL cholesterol, insulin response, etc. Whoever comes out better has to adopt the others diet for at least a week.
I know! Right?! I think that is what bothered me most is that he said it behind my back. If he had said it to me, I could have engaged in a debate with him or at least pointed out that I actually get plenty of veggies and protein and don't gorge myself on bacon and cheese. He also pointed out another person who is eating this way, and allegedly said "See, he is doing that diet and lost a lot of weight, but he doesn't have any muscle at all." Well duh, the guy he is talking about was probably 350 pounds before he started watching his diet. He is now probably 230 (just guessing), and due to knee issues, is only just now beginning to incorporate any exercise. Of course he's going to look . . . . not muscular. Anyway, "Clean Eater" is one of those types of people that is naturally thin. I know, that could be a whole other debate about whether there is such a thing as "naturally" thin, but trust me he is. Is he muscular? No. He is a beanpole. I almost want to ask him how his muscle building by "clean eating" diet alone is working for him.0 -
The self proclaimed "clean eater" is right but for the wrong reasons. You didn't mention anything about resistance or weight training in your OP, so assuming you aren't doing some intense workouts, you are going to lose muscle mass, it's unavoidable. But it's not because of what you are eating, it's because you are in a calorie deficit and some of the weight you lose will be muscle. Your best shot at maintaining it is to lift some weights or otherwise engage your larger muscles with resistance or bodyweight along the way.0
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That said, I am losing weight and currently involved in a weight loss contest in the workplace. Hence, the reason my diet has become fodder for public debate in the workplace.
The main thing here is not your food vs his food. It's the insanity of offices, being locked up all day with people who can completely get on your nerves.
The contest sounds like it was supposed to be in good fun. I would draw some boundaries with the guy or the group - directly, with or without humor. You don't need to explain your food. Maybe just say "knock it off" when the next food talk starts again.
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What is a healthy diet for one may not be a healthy diet for another.0
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JohnnyPenso wrote: »The self proclaimed "clean eater" is right but for the wrong reasons. You didn't mention anything about resistance or weight training in your OP, so assuming you aren't doing some intense workouts, you are going to lose muscle mass, it's unavoidable. But it's not because of what you are eating, it's because you are in a calorie deficit and some of the weight you lose will be muscle. Your best shot at maintaining it is to lift some weights or otherwise engage your larger muscles with resistance or bodyweight along the way.
I am definitely not a fitness expert. And please don't take this as an argument when I ask this question. It is a legitimate question, but could come across as sarcastic. I have X amount of lean muscle mass without any attention to diet OR exercise, but I automatically must lose lean muscle mass if I diet and lose weight without strength training? Honestly, I thought (probably read it somewhere) as long as I eat an appropriate amount of protein for my lean muscle mass, I would maintain it (not build it of course, but maintain it).
My current exercise routine consists of elliptical sessions and long hikes on the weekends. I do plan to add in weight lifting at a future date.0 -
JohnnyPenso wrote: »The self proclaimed "clean eater" is right but for the wrong reasons. You didn't mention anything about resistance or weight training in your OP, so assuming you aren't doing some intense workouts, you are going to lose muscle mass, it's unavoidable. But it's not because of what you are eating, it's because you are in a calorie deficit and some of the weight you lose will be muscle. Your best shot at maintaining it is to lift some weights or otherwise engage your larger muscles with resistance or bodyweight along the way.
I am definitely not a fitness expert. And please don't take this as an argument when I ask this question. It is a legitimate question, but could come across as sarcastic. I have X amount of lean muscle mass without any attention to diet OR exercise, but I automatically must lose lean muscle mass if I diet and lose weight without strength training? Honestly, I thought (probably read it somewhere) as long as I eat an appropriate amount of protein for my lean muscle mass, I would maintain it (not build it of course, but maintain it).
My current exercise routine consists of elliptical sessions and long hikes on the weekends. I do plan to add in weight lifting at a future date.
When we lose weight, it's never going to be 100% fat, it's going to include some muscle. The point of choosing a reasonable calorie deficit, getting enough protein, and doing resistance training is to minimize the amount of muscle lost. This is why many people recommend doing resistance training while losing weight.4 -
JohnnyPenso wrote: »The self proclaimed "clean eater" is right but for the wrong reasons. You didn't mention anything about resistance or weight training in your OP, so assuming you aren't doing some intense workouts, you are going to lose muscle mass, it's unavoidable. But it's not because of what you are eating, it's because you are in a calorie deficit and some of the weight you lose will be muscle. Your best shot at maintaining it is to lift some weights or otherwise engage your larger muscles with resistance or bodyweight along the way.
I am definitely not a fitness expert. And please don't take this as an argument when I ask this question. It is a legitimate question, but could come across as sarcastic. I have X amount of lean muscle mass without any attention to diet OR exercise, but I automatically must lose lean muscle mass if I diet and lose weight without strength training? Honestly, I thought (probably read it somewhere) as long as I eat an appropriate amount of protein for my lean muscle mass, I would maintain it (not build it of course, but maintain it).
My current exercise routine consists of elliptical sessions and long hikes on the weekends. I do plan to add in weight lifting at a future date.
The studies that I know would suggest that you need an active progressive resistance stimulus to maintain muscle. But it doesn't make the clean eater right by any means.... because he is not.2 -
A guy at work, a self proclaimed "clean eater" who doesn't eat sugar or red meat or packaged processed foods (allegedly), said to another coworker that my diet is unhealthy. He went on to claim that I would lose muscle more than fat. I eat low carb, moderate protein, high fat. I do this primarily for health reasons (pre-diabetic and insulin resistant). And yes, I already know that this type of restrictive diet is not necessary for weight loss. So, pretty please with stevia on top, do not fill up this debate with arguments about how this diet is unnecessary. I know, unnecessary, still my diet of choice. That said, I am losing weight and currently involved in a weight loss contest in the workplace. Hence, the reason my diet has become fodder for public debate in the workplace. Here is an example of what I eat in a day: For lunch yesterday, I had a HUGE spinach salad with grape tomatoes, green olives, a bit of cheese, cucumbers, roast chicken breast, and an avocado with a little lime juice and salt. For dinner last night, I had: 2 servings of homemade low carb meatloaf and a serving of cauliflower crumbles-fried rice style with a bit of scrambled eggs in it. For breakfast: I have coffee with milk pretty much every day. So, as near as I can tell (I don't know exactly everything that he eats), the primary differences between our two dietary styles is that I do eat red meat (love me a good ribeye), do eat dairy (lots of protein and fat there too), he doesn't do either. He does eat whole grains, I eat little to none. I do eat sufficient protein to maintain lean mass. So, does "clean eater" have any basis for his claim that my diet is "unhealthy" and I will lose muscle?
Fellow "Low Carber" here. Go listen to Dr. Ageston's 4 steps to a healthy heart. If you are pre-diabetic and insulin resistant then actually your diet IS necessary for YOU. Your blood chemistry are not the same as a non- insulin resistant person. And looking at what you are eating, it's very heart healthy. You are getting your carbs from vegetables. WHICH is what the USDA recommends. They want your plate to be 1/4 meat, 1/4 whole grain starch, and 1/2 vegetables. That is for a NORMAL person. Whole grain starches are Quinoa, Amaranth, Barley, Black Rice, Legumes. But the thing is for whatever reason, your blood chemistry does not fit into the USDA (or is it FDA) recommendations. You are a square peg and their hole is round. SO what do you do... move to a diet where your blood sugar is kept low and steady. It's full of lean veggies and good fats. There is no shame in that. You found your square hole. It looks relatively healthy based on what you posted.
Regarding muscle mass, as long as you are doing resistance training you will not lose your muscle. Generally speaking your body will use it's excess tissue to maintain what it uses. That would be vital organs and muscle tissue used in every day movement. Granted, if you don't eat enough to help support those daily movements then yes you will lose some muscle.
Also Some muscle loss is normal in the course of weight loss. a 300lb person that loses 100lbs does not need the same muscles it did before to move the 300lbs 1mile. So naturally that muscle becomes obselete and is consumed by the body as it is no longer being used. I can't exactly remember what the fat to muscle ratio is for weight loss but without resistance training I think it is somewhere in the ball park of 50/50. When you add resistance training you lower that ratio to somewhere like 60/40 and maybe even closer to 70/30 as you become leaner.
Oh PS... your diet is very clean.0 -
JohnnyPenso wrote: »The self proclaimed "clean eater" is right but for the wrong reasons. You didn't mention anything about resistance or weight training in your OP, so assuming you aren't doing some intense workouts, you are going to lose muscle mass, it's unavoidable. But it's not because of what you are eating, it's because you are in a calorie deficit and some of the weight you lose will be muscle. Your best shot at maintaining it is to lift some weights or otherwise engage your larger muscles with resistance or bodyweight along the way.
I am definitely not a fitness expert. And please don't take this as an argument when I ask this question. It is a legitimate question, but could come across as sarcastic. I have X amount of lean muscle mass without any attention to diet OR exercise, but I automatically must lose lean muscle mass if I diet and lose weight without strength training? Honestly, I thought (probably read it somewhere) as long as I eat an appropriate amount of protein for my lean muscle mass, I would maintain it (not build it of course, but maintain it).
My current exercise routine consists of elliptical sessions and long hikes on the weekends. I do plan to add in weight lifting at a future date.
If you hike in mountains or hills you are getting a good bit of resistance. Walking up a hill may be "cardio" but it also creates resistance.0 -
Thanks for all the info on the muscle question. So, yeah I sort of wondered about the whole "less of me overall requiring less muscle to haul around" thing. And, yes, my hikes are in hilly areas. So, score.3
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He's a fool. This is like a debate on Ford vs. Chevy. He has chosen his brand and will follow whatever marketing woo to it's end.
OP - sounds like you are doing everything right. As for the muscle loss - yes you will lose muscle when in a caloric deficit. Protein will help in protection, but muscle tissue requires stimulus to grow. If you aren't using it your body minimizes maintenance - that goes with everything in a biological system. If you plan on incorporating this in the future I have to ask "why?" I did the same when I started MFP and regret it. This put me back months in my plan where I could have protected muscle loss by incorporating a progressive resistance program at the beginning.
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Well all know the right answer to the bold...He's a fool. This is like a debate on Ford vs. Chevy. He has chosen his brand and will follow whatever marketing woo to it's end.
OP - sounds like you are doing everything right. As for the muscle loss - yes you will lose muscle when in a caloric deficit. Protein will help in protection, but muscle tissue requires stimulus to grow. If you aren't using it your body minimizes maintenance - that goes with everything in a biological system. If you plan on incorporating this in the future I have to ask "why?" I did the same when I started MFP and regret it. This put me back months in my plan where I could have protected muscle loss by incorporating a progressive resistance program at the beginning.
And it's Ford
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He's a fool. This is like a debate on Ford vs. Chevy. He has chosen his brand and will follow whatever marketing woo to it's end.
OP - sounds like you are doing everything right. As for the muscle loss - yes you will lose muscle when in a caloric deficit. Protein will help in protection, but muscle tissue requires stimulus to grow. If you aren't using it your body minimizes maintenance - that goes with everything in a biological system. If you plan on incorporating this in the future I have to ask "why?" I did the same when I started MFP and regret it. This put me back months in my plan where I could have protected muscle loss by incorporating a progressive resistance program at the beginning.
LOL! Only one simple reason I am putting off weight training, weight loss contest. I am primarily doing this for my health. But, I am still in this weight loss contest (with a prize that I definitely want/need). I mean, when I win this thing, it will be like somebody paid me to lose weight! And, I kind of need the money. Think of it as a temporary part-time job. So the contest will be over in just a few more weeks. Then, I will evolve from diet and cardio only and get the weights going too. And to be honest, I don't care that much for weight training, and I'm maybe not in as much of a hurry to get that going as I probably should be. But, I do understand about "skinny fat", and I WILL start the weight training soon.1 -
He's a fool. This is like a debate on Ford vs. Chevy. He has chosen his brand and will follow whatever marketing woo to it's end.
OP - sounds like you are doing everything right. As for the muscle loss - yes you will lose muscle when in a caloric deficit. Protein will help in protection, but muscle tissue requires stimulus to grow. If you aren't using it your body minimizes maintenance - that goes with everything in a biological system. If you plan on incorporating this in the future I have to ask "why?" I did the same when I started MFP and regret it. This put me back months in my plan where I could have protected muscle loss by incorporating a progressive resistance program at the beginning.
LOL! Only one simple reason I am putting off weight training, weight loss contest. I am primarily doing this for my health. But, I am still in this weight loss contest (with a prize that I definitely want/need). I mean, when I win this thing, it will be like somebody paid me to lose weight! And, I kind of need the money. Think of it as a temporary part-time job. So the contest will be over in just a few more weeks. Then, I will evolve from diet and cardio only and get the weights going too. And to be honest, I don't care that much for weight training, and I'm maybe not in as much of a hurry to get that going as I probably should be. But, I do understand about "skinny fat", and I WILL start the weight training soon.
It's more than just being skinny fat.... muscle is linked to metabolism and immune function. Also resistance training can make you less prone to injury (strong muscles for support), prevent osteoporosis, and so much more.3 -
You are right. And I will start very soon.2
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You aren't going to build a huge amount of muscle while losing weight, however weight training will cause you to retain water in your muscles. For me the water weight comes off about about 2-3 days. So, if you want to strength train to aid in your weight loss, just don't lift the 3 days before your final weigh in and you won't have the extra water weight skewing your results.1
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The term "Clean Eating" does not mean healthy and doesn't mean much else to me anymore when everyone uses it regardless of which diet they choose. I really don't have an answer for you because I'm not just going to tell you what you want to hear.
What matters most to me is what type of processed foods I eat that are unhealthy and damaging, rather than healing, my system and proven to promote our leading causes of disease. We all eat processed foods that contain alcohols, chemicals, hormones, antibiotics, gmo's, etc and those should be the exception and not the rule. It doesn't matter if someone thinks their diet is "cleaner and healthier". I let the diets speak for themselves. What kind of ailments does the person have? What diseases? What deficiencies? Is it Sustainable? Is the person always sick and tired? I mean, the questions can go on and on and on and on but no one will divulge the truth about their health problems so arguments over these things are pointless when you don't have all the facts. I do find out from my real friends and family what they are doing and going through from the grapevine and it's normally not good news about the side effects of their diets and ongoing health problems....
Challenges are a great way to motivate others and get in shape so my only advice to you is to not take it personal and use whatever diets you are doing to experiment on yourself, evaluate and track your progress and more importantly, go get a complete blood test before and after to make sure you are getting adequate nutrients and lowering cholesterol and are not promoting diseases. Losing weight does not determine how healthy you are on the inside...
I just challenged my brother to a year long contest because he's trying another diet and I'm 99% certain he is not going to be able to sustain another calorie restrictive diet that includes all the food and alcohol he refuses to give up long term and is always going with that other catch phrase "Everything in Moderation".
"Everything in Moderation" is another prime example of most people just teeter tottering back and forth and never really changing their bad eating habits. It's "mostly" just an "advertisement" for consumers to support the unhealthy food industry. They want nothing more than for all of us to subscribe and convince ourselves and others how it's ok to just moderate our health problems so we can live it up!
Instead of Moderation, I have adopted a different approach to evolve more and more towards healthy eating and stop going back as much every time I move forward! That for me is eating a majority of my diet from plant based whole foods that are actually proven to help fight disease and heal us. We really need to start analyzing our own health and listen to our bodies and rethink our beliefs, traditions and change those habits that are getting us no where. Keep moving in this direction ->->->-> Plant Based
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Rawroy, not sure what you think I "want to hear". I posted this in "Debate: Health and Fitness" so I could see if there is a legitimate health argument against my way of eating versus "clean eater's" approach. I mean clearly I don't think there is or I wouldn't continue eating this way. Aside from that, I think I get what you are saying, no single approach is the best/healthiest for every single body. More power to you with the plant based diet. I truly wish that I could eat that way (for personal/spiritual reasons), but find that it just doesn't work for my body.1
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