"Clean" eater critical of Low Carb

zyxst

BABetter1 wrote: »

rawroy wrote: »

BABetter1 wrote: »

And, is it just me or is a certain someone totally ignoring my comments (especially the ones with relevant past experience) and just using my thread as a soap box?

If you are referring to me, no, you didn't stump me. I haven't been back because I have so many other things I do everyday like work, bike to the gym, and meal prep to help others who have diabetes, heart disease and more caused from their meat and dairy based diet.

You have to understand I'm totally outnumbered here but I'm sure there are more like me that just don't speak up because of that. I am just limiting how much time and energy I invest in these forums. These threads can go on forever so don't take me not responding as some sort of victory. I know people think they win a debate that way but I'm here to share my experience, research, and hopefully it will help others who are willing to change because low fat plant based has so many benefits compared to any other diet. That should be our primary source of food and I can say, since I'm the minority now, the majority of people on meat based diets have health problems and I wonder what percentage that is on MFP...

I only just noticed this was directed at me. So, again, you make a lot of assumptions based on what? Never said I stumped you. Never implied victory in this debate. I also never said my diet is meat and dairy based. You, sir, are just like "clean eater", the original subject of this debate, in that you have made assumptions about what my low carb diet consists of. Did you actually read the original post where I list what I ate that day? There is no winning a debate with someone who simply discounts your personal anecdotal evidence as lies and is quite self convinced that everyone but he must load up a potato with meat, cheese, and butter at every meal because, according to you, "they just can't help themselves". At any rate, your input in this debate is irrelevant as the debate compared my way of eating to that of "clean eater" who also happens to eat meat. So even he can't meet your perfect standards.

psuLemon

BABetter1 wrote: »

rawroy wrote: »

BABetter1 wrote: »

LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »

I can overeat potatoes without thinking about it, regardless of what is on it. Throw the cheese and sour cream on cauliflower and I stay within range. Everyone is different in how their bodies respond to different foods.

This. So let me re-iterate, I went vegan for a year. I gained a ton of weight. While I was vegan, I was eating whole foods, no meat or dairy. I wasn't putting any cheese or sour cream on my potatoes, and aside from some very occasional vegan cheese or boca burger and frequent tofu, very little of what I ate was processed other than being dried (grains and beans) or processed in a food processor. Still felt like I couldn't get enough to eat and gained a ton.

I tried vegetarian when I totally failed at being vegan thinking my body just needed more protein (added eggs back in), same result. Plant-based alone is just not for me. And, the assertion that it's not the potato's fault but what a person puts on the potato is an inaccurate broad generalization.

Let me get this straight, are you claiming that "most" of your calories came from "low fat" plant based whole foods and you gained a ton of weight? That is very very very unlikely because anyone who follows mostly low fat plant based would have the opposite problem eating enough calories. Those extra calories most likely came from the processed food (vegan or not) with cooking oils and calories from refined sugars and fats.

It really does matter what people put on a potato but people blame the carbs instead. People just can't help loading them up with butter, cheese, sour cream, bacon bits, salt and turn it into a highly processed high fat high calorie vegetable...poor potato

Well, thanks for basically calling me a liar. When I said "most", I was referring to the "whole, unprocessed" part of that statement. One can't be "mostly" vegan. It's an all or nothing type of word. Remember I also clarified that I did eat "on occasion" boca burger (plant based), tofu (plant based), and vegan cheese (plant based). Those are all processed foods that I used in moderation with certain recipes. But, I ate 100% vegan. I cook. I love to cook. So, I made awesome vegan stuffed peppers, vegan lasagna, quinoa pilaf, etc., but it was ALL VEGAN. So, I don't appreciate your presumption that I added butter (not vegan), cheese (not vegan), sour cream (not vegan) or bacon (definitely as far from vegan as humanly possible) to my food. In fact, I ate very little potato while on the vegan diet. Instead, I ate a lot of whole grains. And I gained a TON OF WEIGHT. You clearly are going to believe whatever you choose to believe. But, I lived it. And, I could put away a lot of grub if I wanted to at each sitting. Now, research INSULIN RESISTANCE, and once you understand what happens to someone with IR with the blood sugar spikes and crashes, you might begin to understand how someone who can put away a lot of food paired with IR can result in gaining tons of weight, even on a plant based diet.

I still don't eat PORK and various unclean (Biblically speaking) foods, for religious reasons. But, rawroy, you probably think I'm lying about that too. Whatever.

Now, you have a wonderful life, sir.

I wouldn't stress it too much. It's fairly obvious that he does not have a deep knowledge of IR or any associated diseases. And he certainly isn't aligned with the plethora of science behind IR and benefits of LCHF diets with that disease. Anyone who has spent a little time researching IR, PCOS or even diabetes would see how fast you can control glucose by cutting carbs. And while some people can improve glucose with moderate carb (limiting to 30 to 40g per meal or less, when combined with protein/fats to slow absorption), the benefits are accelerated with carbs are decreased.

Hamsibian

All I know for me is that an LCHF diet is the best thing for me and my Crohn's. I would forever be in the hospital if I was vegan. But i know other Crohnies who wouldnt survive on my diet (lots of vegetables and fiber). One size does not fit all.

I am glad you found something that works (isn't that just the best feeling?)! forget those who tell you otherwise, especially if they are seriously misinformed .

stealthq

rawroy wrote: »

stealthq wrote: »

rawroy wrote: »

LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »

I can overeat potatoes without thinking about it, regardless of what is on it. Throw the cheese and sour cream on cauliflower and I stay within range. Everyone is different in how their bodies respond to different foods.

I don't think you realize how difficult it would be to eat 10 whole potatoes compared to say 1 can of pringles or even just 2 potatoes that are saturated with oil, cheese, sour cream, butter, bacon bits, and whatever else people add to make it so unhealthy. I don't think everyone is that different or we wouldn't have so many people following the same exact diets at all. The vast majority of people really would find it rather difficult to overeat their caloric requirement on a low fat plant based diet compared to a high fat high protein meat and dairy based diet. The volume of food would just be too daunting.

If you have trouble overeating because you are still hungry, just add more whole foods like veggies or grains or fruit without all the extra fat condiments. Just season them up without added salt and sugar and I'm sure you'll be full. My taste buds have gone back to what I consider our natural state and now I can easily enjoy and detect the true flavor of food we take for granted after eliminating most of the processed foods.

*Blink*

~900 cals in one can of Pringles.

~3000-3500 cals in 10 typically-sized russet potatoes at my grocery.

I can eat the can of Pringles and still have 700 cals left if I'm maintaining.

I'm on track to gain 2-3 lbs per week if I eat the 10 potatoes in a day. Oh, and I'll eventually get mighty sick if I don't add any fats or proteins to those potatoes.

Something tells me this is not any kind of reasonable comparison.

Seriously! You use MFP and think 10 potatos are 3500 calories. No, you wouldn't get sick. You ever hear of the potato diet? There really are people eating mainly potatoes and losing weight and clearing up health problems. Turns out, a potato gives them all the nutrition and protein they need! It would make for a very bland diet but that was never my point. My point is, the potato is not the problem or reason people overeat.

Yes, I do.

A typical russet potato in my grocery runs around 450g, which is why if I'm buying a baking potato I end up digging around in the bottom of the bin to find the smallest ones. Those are still quite a bit larger than what you're using as a 'typical' potato. I don't think I've ever logged one smaller than 250g.

If you're specifically referencing small potatoes, you can buy reds, baby, or fingerlings, but that really undermines your original argument. Because they're so small, it's be super easy to put away that many in a day. If I'm eating smaller potatoes, I'd normally have 3-5 as a side, and I am petite.

Potatoes absolutely do not give you everything you need. They are lacking in essential fats, and have insufficient protein, without which you would eventually die. The potato diet is a short-term crash diet. Assuming you are decently nourished to start, malnutrition does not catch up with you in a couple of weeks.

amusedmonkey

Well, fine. It's hard to eat 1100 calories of plain potatoes in one sitting, but this has nothing to do with it being plant-based, it has to do with having a relatively low caloric density. It's equally as hard if not harder to eat the whites of 70 eggs in one sitting (similar calories to ten 150 gram potatoes) and that's high protein and not plan-based. You are also forgetting that satiety is largely individual and some people who eat a low carb diet experience a diminished appetite where small portions of high fat foods are exceptionally filling to them. Clearly OP is doing pretty well on a low carb diet and is not hungry, so that point is dead on arrival.

AnvilHead

rawroy wrote: »

stealthq wrote: »

rawroy wrote: »

LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »

I can overeat potatoes without thinking about it, regardless of what is on it. Throw the cheese and sour cream on cauliflower and I stay within range. Everyone is different in how their bodies respond to different foods.

I don't think you realize how difficult it would be to eat 10 whole potatoes compared to say 1 can of pringles or even just 2 potatoes that are saturated with oil, cheese, sour cream, butter, bacon bits, and whatever else people add to make it so unhealthy. I don't think everyone is that different or we wouldn't have so many people following the same exact diets at all. The vast majority of people really would find it rather difficult to overeat their caloric requirement on a low fat plant based diet compared to a high fat high protein meat and dairy based diet. The volume of food would just be too daunting.

If you have trouble overeating because you are still hungry, just add more whole foods like veggies or grains or fruit without all the extra fat condiments. Just season them up without added salt and sugar and I'm sure you'll be full. My taste buds have gone back to what I consider our natural state and now I can easily enjoy and detect the true flavor of food we take for granted after eliminating most of the processed foods.

*Blink*

~900 cals in one can of Pringles.

~3000-3500 cals in 10 typically-sized russet potatoes at my grocery.

I can eat the can of Pringles and still have 700 cals left if I'm maintaining.

I'm on track to gain 2-3 lbs per week if I eat the 10 potatoes in a day. Oh, and I'll eventually get mighty sick if I don't add any fats or proteins to those potatoes.

Something tells me this is not any kind of reasonable comparison.

Seriously! You use MFP and think 10 potatos are 3500 calories. No, you wouldn't get sick. You ever hear of the potato diet? There really are people eating mainly potatoes and losing weight and clearing up health problems. Turns out, a potato gives them all the nutrition and protein they need! It would make for a very bland diet but that was never my point. My point is, the potato is not the problem or reason people overeat.

In what bizarro world is 30g of protein (from TEN potatoes, no less) a sufficient daily intake for anybody? And what's the amino acid profile of the protein in potatoes? Do they contain every one of the essential amino acids?

It's also worth mentioning that fats are an essential part of the diet for many reasons, and potatoes have none. Their micronutrient profile is nowhere near complete either. A "potato diet" is a very bad idea for several reasons.

KassLea22

I'm skeptical of any "low or no" diet. While I think it's important to watch what you eat, our bodies do need a certain amount of fat, sodium, carbs, protein, and even sugar. I think portion control is the most important part of a diet. Even eating "healthy foods" like broccoli, chicken, turkey, spinach, etc can be bad when you are over eating them. That's great if a person wants to eat a low sodium diet, or a low-carb diet, or switch to eating all turkey. But if a person is still going back for 2nd, 3rd, or 4th helpings that is the problem.

Just realize that may not have answered the initial question but that's my opinion.

bathsheba_c

It's not worth getting into the argument. The moment someone starts referring to food as "clean" or "unclean," they've turned their eating habits into a religion, and that's psychologically unhealthy.