Married but never see my partner

candythorns
candythorns Posts: 246 Member
Ok i exaggerate, i get to see him every other week due to our work schedules. I work a consistent 7-3 and his schefule changes weekly.
I have no hobbies, and very few friends because ive always been kind of a loner....but i still like being around ppl.
I found myself googling "things to do alone" but honestly, its -15C out, who wants to wander aimlessly in that weather.
I looked up different meet ups but haven't gotten to the point where i want to make myself uncomfortable.
Just needed to say this somewhere....any ideas that im not thinking of??

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Replies

  • Rhody_Hoosier
    Rhody_Hoosier Posts: 688 Member
    Have you tried Tinder?
  • Rhody_Hoosier
    Rhody_Hoosier Posts: 688 Member
    fidycixer wrote: »
    Have you tried Tinder?

    I kid.
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    fidycixer wrote: »
    fidycixer wrote: »
    Have you tried Tinder?

    I kid.

    It sucks.........it wasnt always like this. Just past few years.
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    Ok i exaggerate, i get to see him every other week due to our work schedules. I work a consistent 7-3 and his schefule changes weekly.
    I have no hobbies, and very few friends because ive always been kind of a loner....but i still like being around ppl.
    I found myself googling "things to do alone" but honestly, its -15C out, who wants to wander aimlessly in that weather.
    I looked up different meet ups but haven't gotten to the point where i want to make myself uncomfortable.
    Just needed to say this somewhere....any ideas that im not thinking of??

    If you feel alone, you should talk to him and say the schedule is not working, you feel like you want to do things together. Couples talk about what's best for "the family". So if the relationship is important enough to you both, work schedules get rearranged. If work is more important or a compromise can't be made, maybe it's just an excuse to look elsewhere. People that truly want to be together mutually, compromise and find solutions.

    It sucks to feel alone, but sometimes in "the real world" it's much harder to meet people for whatever reason. I hope you find a solution that works for you.

    Last year we went through a hard time, i dont normally air my marital grievances but ill make the exception for context. Things git rough after I tried to make friends from work and we just all spent time drinking together. Things got messy and i nearly left just because i felt like such a piece of *kitten*. He offered to quit his job. But honestly, that could lead to HUGE resentment. A resentment i dont want to face daily for my whole life.
    Ive been signing up for fitness classes (theres not many around), ive been walking to the second train stop on my commute home just to kill time....

  • km8907
    km8907 Posts: 3,861 Member
    Find a hobby. Something you can do inside until the weather's better, then find something to do outside. Volunteer somewhere. Is there any way you can keep in contact with him when he's at work? Facetime, sexy texts, stupid voicemails etc.
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    km8907 wrote: »
    Find a hobby. Something you can do inside until the weather's better, then find something to do outside. Volunteer somewhere. Is there any way you can keep in contact with him when he's at work? Facetime, sexy texts, stupid voicemails etc.

    We honestly rarely txt when hes on his afternoon shift. I wake up at 5am so i go to bed no later than 11pm. He crawls into bed around 1am....
    And dont get me wrong the relationship part is fine.
    Im just lonely, and bored as *kitten*.
    Hobbies never motivated me. I never did extracurriculars growing up (i started ging out drinking with my friends at 14) and before that just spent time doing nothing with friends....not the best development for a healthy motivated adult life
    I have tried taking up painting, coloring, playing keyboard. I used to write a lot. I dont play video games. I started to try my hand at baking a couple weeks ago but then i just eat it all so that's out lol
  • HealthWoke0ish
    HealthWoke0ish Posts: 2,078 Member
    But I DO see my girlfriend regularly... B)>:)
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    Mississauga!! My brother lives there. I visit him often. It's very quiet out there and cold. He lives in the suburbs. Canada is boring in general. But I feel like that the moment I step out of NY, CT or NJ.

    I suggest professional networking on linkedin. I recommend the shapr app. I meet other professionals using the app and we trade ideas. They need to come up with more non-dating networking apps. Sometimes ideas need to come out of your head.

    Yea im in the suburbs too! We lived closer to a city centre area but moved. Thankfully im beside a train stn so i can go to work downtown and be around ppl.

    I added Shapr, thanks for the suggestion, and it only shows American ppl
  • This content has been removed.
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    That sucks. Perhaps update your settings or maybe the app is still in expansion mode. I read in tech crunch that they are getting funding to widen their net.

    I am in NY. I meet hedge fund guys and mid-level execs every now and then. I am the kind of person who needs constant exchange of intellect to feel good.

    I see you said meetups. Did you try meetup.com. Does have a lot of weirdos - I got so miffed at the nature of people that my last meetup was like months and months ago.

    I hope things work out okay. Good luck to you.

    My fear of going to one is that ill get lost in the sea of ppl. The meetups always say that 15 or more ppl are going. Do these ppl know eachother? Will i be totally invisible and awkward, like the 16th wheel?
    I havent forced myself into that yet

    Thats even like these forums. I dont jump in if i see hundreds of responses, as mine is sure to get ignored
  • subcounter
    subcounter Posts: 2,382 Member
    edited March 2017
    Ok i exaggerate, i get to see him every other week due to our work schedules. I work a consistent 7-3 and his schefule changes weekly.
    I have no hobbies, and very few friends because ive always been kind of a loner....but i still like being around ppl.
    I found myself googling "things to do alone" but honestly, its -15C out, who wants to wander aimlessly in that weather.
    I looked up different meet ups but haven't gotten to the point where i want to make myself uncomfortable.
    Just needed to say this somewhere....any ideas that im not thinking of??

    You should try to understand whats going on with the relationship first, thats a totally different issue from you being a loner or not having a lot of friends.
    You definitely need to sit down and talk about this with your partner. Perhaps save at least two nights a week for only you two to start with. Could be sitting on the couch chilling, talking, having some wine, or going to some exhibition, or walking in some mall, anything really.
    Honestly a relationship where you see each other every other week doesn't sound healthy.

    As per meet ups, etc, well, try to find yourself a hobby first. I don't think meeting random people is going to change how you feel in general. Rather focus on what you like to do, and meet people in that circle. Say it could be pottery classes, or cooking classes, or cross-fit, running groups (there are so many out there), etc etc. You don't need to know about it, just go for it, and learn. It's good to push yourself out of your comfort zone. Thats where you meet people and enjoy your life most of the time.

    Anyways good luck!
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    subcounter wrote: »
    Ok i exaggerate, i get to see him every other week due to our work schedules. I work a consistent 7-3 and his schefule changes weekly.
    I have no hobbies, and very few friends because ive always been kind of a loner....but i still like being around ppl.
    I found myself googling "things to do alone" but honestly, its -15C out, who wants to wander aimlessly in that weather.
    I looked up different meet ups but haven't gotten to the point where i want to make myself uncomfortable.
    Just needed to say this somewhere....any ideas that im not thinking of??

    You should try to understand whats going on with the relationship first, thats totally different issue from you being a loner or not having a lot of friends.
    You definitely need to sit down and talk about this with your partner. Perhaps save at least two nights a week for only you two to start with. Could be sitting on the couch chilling, talking, having some wine, or going to some exhibition, or walking in some mall, anything really.
    Honestly a relationship where you see each other every other week doesn't sound healthy.

    As per meet ups, etc, well, try to find yourself a hobby first. I don't think meeting random people is going to change how you feel in general. Rather focus on what you like to do, and meet people in that circle. Say it could be pottery classes, or cooking classes, or cross-fit, running groups (there are so many out there), etc etc. You don't need to know about it, just go for it, and learn. It's good to push yourself out of your comfort zone. Thats where you meet people and enjoy your life most of the time.

    Anyways good luck!

    This is sound advice. And just to confirm i get him for one week on and one week off, not just one day every other week. Sorry if i made that confusing.

    I wish had the desire to do things....i started getting into hula hooping, i can try to get back into that
  • IslaTiempo
    IslaTiempo Posts: 530 Member
    Ok i exaggerate, i get to see him every other week due to our work schedules. I work a consistent 7-3 and his schefule changes weekly.
    I have no hobbies, and very few friends because ive always been kind of a loner....but i still like being around ppl.
    I found myself googling "things to do alone" but honestly, its -15C out, who wants to wander aimlessly in that weather.
    I looked up different meet ups but haven't gotten to the point where i want to make myself uncomfortable.
    Just needed to say this somewhere....any ideas that im not thinking of??


    So are you married just to be married? What's the point of being married?

    I feel like you have a few options as life is not as complicated as we make it seem.

    1- Get a divorce and really live a life alone, and REALLY think about what it is that you've always loved and wanted to do, and do it.

    2- Stay married and have a heart to heart with your husband. I'm sure people do still talk to each other nowadays, work out a schedule and get a hobby.

    3- Live the same life you're living...
  • dc8066
    dc8066 Posts: 1,439 Member
    That sucks. Perhaps update your settings or maybe the app is still in expansion mode. I read in tech crunch that they are getting funding to widen their net.

    I am in NY. I meet hedge fund guys and mid-level execs every now and then. I am the kind of person who needs constant exchange of intellect to feel good.

    I see you said meetups. Did you try meetup.com. Does have a lot of weirdos - I got so miffed at the nature of people that my last meetup was like months and months ago.

    I hope things work out okay. Good luck to you.

    My fear of going to one is that ill get lost in the sea of ppl. The meetups always say that 15 or more ppl are going. Do these ppl know eachother? Will i be totally invisible and awkward, like the 16th wheel?
    I havent forced myself into that yet

    Thats even like these forums. I dont jump in if i see hundreds of responses, as mine is sure to get ignored

    You should force yourserf to go to a meetup once, or twice. It is scary at first but you will feel more comfortable afterwards. It is safer meeting strangers in a group vs one-on-one , and you might find there young people in a similar situation, maybe even a friend or two .
  • candythorns
    candythorns Posts: 246 Member
    IslaTiempo wrote: »
    Ok i exaggerate, i get to see him every other week due to our work schedules. I work a consistent 7-3 and his schefule changes weekly.
    I have no hobbies, and very few friends because ive always been kind of a loner....but i still like being around ppl.
    I found myself googling "things to do alone" but honestly, its -15C out, who wants to wander aimlessly in that weather.
    I looked up different meet ups but haven't gotten to the point where i want to make myself uncomfortable.
    Just needed to say this somewhere....any ideas that im not thinking of??


    So are you married just to be married? What's the point of being married?

    I feel like you have a few options as life is not as complicated as we make it seem.

    1- Get a divorce and really live a life alone, and REALLY think about what it is that you've always loved and wanted to do, and do it.

    2- Stay married and have a heart to heart with your husband. I'm sure people do still talk to each other nowadays, work out a schedule and get a hobby.

    3- Live the same life you're living...

    You are sassy like me, so i respect and appreciate this.
    I nearly left last year and i regret it. When things become tough i cant just run away every time. Im married because i love him. Our schedules were not always like this. We have been together for 12 years, married for 4, and this schedule has existed for 3 years.
  • Rhody_Hoosier
    Rhody_Hoosier Posts: 688 Member
    That sucks. Perhaps update your settings or maybe the app is still in expansion mode. I read in tech crunch that they are getting funding to widen their net.

    I am in NY. I meet hedge fund guys and mid-level execs every now and then. I am the kind of person who needs constant exchange of intellect to feel good.

    I see you said meetups. Did you try meetup.com. Does have a lot of weirdos - I got so miffed at the nature of people that my last meetup was like months and months ago.

    I hope things work out okay. Good luck to you.

    My fear of going to one is that ill get lost in the sea of ppl. The meetups always say that 15 or more ppl are going. Do these ppl know eachother? Will i be totally invisible and awkward, like the 16th wheel?
    I havent forced myself into that yet

    Thats even like these forums. I dont jump in if i see hundreds of responses, as mine is sure to get ignored

    I use meetup for hiking. Good exercise. Groups are usually 10 or less. Sometimes a dozen. Rarely as many as 15.
  • Rhody_Hoosier
    Rhody_Hoosier Posts: 688 Member
    fidycixer wrote: »
    That sucks. Perhaps update your settings or maybe the app is still in expansion mode. I read in tech crunch that they are getting funding to widen their net.

    I am in NY. I meet hedge fund guys and mid-level execs every now and then. I am the kind of person who needs constant exchange of intellect to feel good.

    I see you said meetups. Did you try meetup.com. Does have a lot of weirdos - I got so miffed at the nature of people that my last meetup was like months and months ago.

    I hope things work out okay. Good luck to you.

    My fear of going to one is that ill get lost in the sea of ppl. The meetups always say that 15 or more ppl are going. Do these ppl know eachother? Will i be totally invisible and awkward, like the 16th wheel?
    I havent forced myself into that yet

    Thats even like these forums. I dont jump in if i see hundreds of responses, as mine is sure to get ignored

    I use meetup for hiking. Good exercise. Groups are usually 10 or less. Sometimes a dozen. Rarely as many as 15.

    That said it was a bit scary meeting a group of strangers...from the interwebs...in the woods...to "take a walk". And I'm a pretty big guy. Sooooo there's that. Just make sure you join a big group with many previous meetups and you'll be 100% fine.
  • TonyB0588
    TonyB0588 Posts: 9,520 Member
    subcounter wrote: »
    Ok i exaggerate, i get to see him every other week due to our work schedules. I work a consistent 7-3 and his schefule changes weekly.
    I have no hobbies, and very few friends because ive always been kind of a loner....but i still like being around ppl.
    I found myself googling "things to do alone" but honestly, its -15C out, who wants to wander aimlessly in that weather.
    I looked up different meet ups but haven't gotten to the point where i want to make myself uncomfortable.
    Just needed to say this somewhere....any ideas that im not thinking of??

    You should try to understand whats going on with the relationship first, thats totally different issue from you being a loner or not having a lot of friends.
    You definitely need to sit down and talk about this with your partner. Perhaps save at least two nights a week for only you two to start with. Could be sitting on the couch chilling, talking, having some wine, or going to some exhibition, or walking in some mall, anything really.
    Honestly a relationship where you see each other every other week doesn't sound healthy.

    As per meet ups, etc, well, try to find yourself a hobby first. I don't think meeting random people is going to change how you feel in general. Rather focus on what you like to do, and meet people in that circle. Say it could be pottery classes, or cooking classes, or cross-fit, running groups (there are so many out there), etc etc. You don't need to know about it, just go for it, and learn. It's good to push yourself out of your comfort zone. Thats where you meet people and enjoy your life most of the time.

    Anyways good luck!

    This is sound advice. And just to confirm i get him for one week on and one week off, not just one day every other week. Sorry if i made that confusing.

    I wish had the desire to do things....i started getting into hula hooping, i can try to get back into that

    So do you make it very interesting during the one week that you have him? That should make it more bearable during the week that you don't.

    How far away from home does he work? Does he actually work all night, or one shift which just happens to be part of the night? Surely you can find some overlapping hours when you're both in the house. Or maybe when he's off during the day, you two can meetup during your lunch hour.

    Also in this day of modern communication, it can't be that hard to "talk" to each other while he's out. There's texting and other instant messaging apps. Then actual talking on your cell phones isn't as expensive as it was 30 years ago.

    What are your ages? Do you actually have children, or plan to have any?
  • kassierodriguez1
    kassierodriguez1 Posts: 357 Member
    Ok i exaggerate, i get to see him every other week due to our work schedules. I work a consistent 7-3 and his schefule changes weekly.
    I have no hobbies, and very few friends because ive always been kind of a loner....but i still like being around ppl.
    I found myself googling "things to do alone" but honestly, its -15C out, who wants to wander aimlessly in that weather.
    I looked up different meet ups but haven't gotten to the point where i want to make myself uncomfortable.
    Just needed to say this somewhere....any ideas that im not thinking of??

    Man I feel ya here. My husband works 12 hour shifts and it definitely gets lonely. I'm also a bit of a loner. I'm not good at making friends. I have a hard time feeling like I relate to a lot of women. And guys usually only want to be friends with me because they are hopeful. So that is usually temporary because they taper off once they give up hope I think. And I would never hang out with them alone. :(
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,948 Member
    Have a kid. That's what kept me from being bored the last 12 years.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • kassierodriguez1
    kassierodriguez1 Posts: 357 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Have a kid. That's what kept me from being bored the last 12 years.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
    I have a kid and I still get bored. It's great when she's there. But when she goes to school or bed. Or when you want to do adult things on the weekend with someone...not alone
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,948 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Have a kid. That's what kept me from being bored the last 12 years.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
    I have a kid and I still get bored. It's great when she's there. But when she goes to school or bed. Or when you want to do adult things on the weekend with someone...not alone
    Lol, I guess it may be that I still like to do kid things then. My DD and I hang out a lot together. Just came back from watching LOGAN.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • Sharon_C
    Sharon_C Posts: 2,132 Member
    I feel your pain. My husband works shift work and I work 8-5. When he's on evening shift I'll go 4-5 days without seeing him. I hated it at first but now I'm used it to. So much so that when he's on day shift I kinda resent it because I feel like he's intruding on my time.

    All those years that I was alone I eventually found a hobby that morphed into a second career that I can do from home. So now I work 2 jobs and I never have any down time. Hubby doesn't seem to mind because...double the income.

    The only advice I have is to find something that you like to do, but it seems like you're already trying that.

    Good luck!
  • kassierodriguez1
    kassierodriguez1 Posts: 357 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Have a kid. That's what kept me from being bored the last 12 years.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
    I have a kid and I still get bored. It's great when she's there. But when she goes to school or bed. Or when you want to do adult things on the weekend with someone...not alone
    Lol, I guess it may be that I still like to do kid things then. My DD and I hang out a lot together. Just came back from watching LOGAN.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I love doing kid things too so I get it. But when I want to go out dancing, who am I gonna go with? Or shopping and actually be able to get a solid opinion lol. There are few things I need another adult for. But it would be nice to have one in those moments
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,948 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Have a kid. That's what kept me from being bored the last 12 years.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
    I have a kid and I still get bored. It's great when she's there. But when she goes to school or bed. Or when you want to do adult things on the weekend with someone...not alone
    Lol, I guess it may be that I still like to do kid things then. My DD and I hang out a lot together. Just came back from watching LOGAN.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I love doing kid things too so I get it. But when I want to go out dancing, who am I gonna go with?
    Haha. Just go to a Zumba class. You don't even have to dress up.
    Or shopping and actually be able to get a solid opinion lol. There are few things I need another adult for. But it would be nice to have one in those moments
    But don't most men just say "what do you think" so they don't have to make the decision? One thing I love above my wife, she NEVER asks me what I think on clothes. And I think they all look great on her. But maybe that's just me.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • synchkat
    synchkat Posts: 37,368 Member
    How about finding a hobby or sport? My husband works a lot so I'm alone a lot and I have a social network through the sports I do.

    Might be a start
  • kassierodriguez1
    kassierodriguez1 Posts: 357 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Have a kid. That's what kept me from being bored the last 12 years.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
    I have a kid and I still get bored. It's great when she's there. But when she goes to school or bed. Or when you want to do adult things on the weekend with someone...not alone
    Lol, I guess it may be that I still like to do kid things then. My DD and I hang out a lot together. Just came back from watching LOGAN.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I love doing kid things too so I get it. But when I want to go out dancing, who am I gonna go with?
    Haha. Just go to a Zumba class. You don't even have to dress up.
    Or shopping and actually be able to get a solid opinion lol. There are few things I need another adult for. But it would be nice to have one in those moments
    But don't most men just say "what do you think" so they don't have to make the decision? One thing I love above my wife, she NEVER asks me what I think on clothes. And I think they all look great on her. But maybe that's just me.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Pft that is no fun.
  • JLAJ81
    JLAJ81 Posts: 2,477 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Have a kid. That's what kept me from being bored the last 12 years.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
    I have a kid and I still get bored. It's great when she's there. But when she goes to school or bed. Or when you want to do adult things on the weekend with someone...not alone
    Lol, I guess it may be that I still like to do kid things then. My DD and I hang out a lot together. Just came back from watching LOGAN.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    I love doing kid things too so I get it. But when I want to go out dancing, who am I gonna go with? Or shopping and actually be able to get a solid opinion lol. There are few things I need another adult for. But it would be nice to have one in those moments
    I'll go shopping with ya! But you have to tell me if I look fat in certain outfits
  • mandymay01
    mandymay01 Posts: 758 Member
    get a 2nd job, that's what I did. keeps my mind and body busy
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    km8907 wrote: »
    Find a hobby. Something you can do inside until the weather's better, then find something to do outside. Volunteer somewhere. Is there any way you can keep in contact with him when he's at work? Facetime, sexy texts, stupid voicemails etc.

    We honestly rarely txt when hes on his afternoon shift. I wake up at 5am so i go to bed no later than 11pm. He crawls into bed around 1am....
    And dont get me wrong the relationship part is fine.
    Im just lonely, and bored as *kitten*.
    Hobbies never motivated me. I never did extracurriculars growing up (i started ging out drinking with my friends at 14) and before that just spent time doing nothing with friends....not the best development for a healthy motivated adult life
    I have tried taking up painting, coloring, playing keyboard. I used to write a lot. I dont play video games. I started to try my hand at baking a couple weeks ago but then i just eat it all so that's out lol

    If you're bored and lonely the relationship part isn't 'fine'....