When did junk food/sweets/fast food stop being just an occasional treat?
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Why do these items have to be occasional treats? How often is occasional? What's wrong with having them daily?
I didn't have a lot of fast food growing up because I lived in a small town that didn't/couldn't support fast food places. My parents were working and raising 5 kids. I generally had free time on my hands and my folks didn't give much care about what I ate as long as I was quiet while Mom was sleeping and came home when it got dark out. I ate plenty of junk food, probably 90% of my diet was candy bars, beef jerky, soda pop, and potato chips.
Eating dessert twice a day keeps me from getting stabby. Apologies that that doesn't fit in your world.
To be honest, I'm a little surprised by the hostility. I don't think that I'm being rude or judgmental, in fact I have said that I am not advocating towards any persons diet. And I never said my way was the right way. I just think it's interesting that while one person can view cookies as a treat, another person can view cookies as something that is needed every day. And maybe it was the culture of the neighborhood I grew up in, or my state, or just the people I was around but those things were always considered treats so when I realize people didn't consider them treats it was just interesting to me.
It's also interesting that one person can view food as such an emotional personal issue, while someone else just views it as a non-issue.
You read hostility in interesting places.
I'd like to hear your answers to my questions since we seem to have opposing views on what is a treat and how often is occasionally.
Well your last little comment on your post was unnecessarily rude, but that's kind of beside the point at this juncture of the conversation.
To answer your questions, I don't really have any answers because I don't think one way of living is better or worse than another way for everyone. That's why asked this question; to see other peoples opinions on the subject. And I certainly don't believe that people have to live their life the way I do, so my personal answers to the those questions would only apply to me in my life. I just view them as treats because I do, and I have them when I feel like I want a treat are my answers. And for me the definition of treat is something that special that you don't have all the time.2 -
I grew up in the 80s, and my mom was a great cook, and we definitely only had sweet things for special occasions. She never bought sugar cereals or Poptarts or anything like that, although she would make a dessert maybe once a week. Now, she did encourage us to eat large portions, and she herself had to have weight loss surgery when I was a teenager, so this didn't necessarily work out to healthy eating practices. You can overeat on roast chicken, veggies, and potatoes just as easily as you can on sweets. (Well, maybe not just as easily, but it is not impossible) I think that might be why some are getting ruffled feathers. The access to sweets alone is not the cause of obesity, and the eating of sweets everyday is not automatically overeating.2
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saralukies wrote: »I grew up in the 80s, and my mom was a great cook, and we definitely only had sweet things for special occasions. She never bought sugar cereals or Poptarts or anything like that, although she would make a dessert maybe once a week. Now, she did encourage us to eat large portions, and she herself had to have weight loss surgery when I was a teenager, so this didn't necessarily work out to healthy eating practices. You can overeat on roast chicken, veggies, and potatoes just as easily as you can on sweets. (Well, maybe not just as easily, but it is not impossible) I think that might be why some are getting ruffled feathers. The access to sweets alone is not the cause of obesity, and the eating of sweets everyday is not automatically overeating.
Yes, I myself have overeaten potatoes, even salads, but rarely sweets.
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »@KassLea22 Since you mention a wide span of time including your childhood, I'll present the possibility that as the cost of calories has fallen throughout our lifetimes, an ever greater percentage of the population has the wherewithal to purchase calories which have been arranged in seductively attractive forms.
Thanks for the reply. I'm not entirely sure I understand what you were trying to say. would you care to elaborate?
Your opening post mentioned something from your childhood, something from your several years on mfp, and something at the present time. I don't know how many years you've lived, but I've lived over 50. In both our lives, the cost of food, as well as the percentage of income spent on food, has been falling for the average citizen. Since the tasty treats (I preferred to use flowery words initially) are cheaper than ever, we buy them more than ever.1 -
Why do these items have to be occasional treats? How often is occasional? What's wrong with having them daily?
I didn't have a lot of fast food growing up because I lived in a small town that didn't/couldn't support fast food places. My parents were working and raising 5 kids. I generally had free time on my hands and my folks didn't give much care about what I ate as long as I was quiet while Mom was sleeping and came home when it got dark out. I ate plenty of junk food, probably 90% of my diet was candy bars, beef jerky, soda pop, and potato chips.
Eating dessert twice a day keeps me from getting stabby. Apologies that that doesn't fit in your world.
To be honest, I'm a little surprised by the hostility. I don't think that I'm being rude or judgmental, in fact I have said that I am not advocating towards any persons diet. And I never said my way was the right way. I just think it's interesting that while one person can view cookies as a treat, another person can view cookies as something that is needed every day. And maybe it was the culture of the neighborhood I grew up in, or my state, or just the people I was around but those things were always considered treats so when I realize people didn't consider them treats it was just interesting to me.
It's also interesting that one person can view food as such an emotional personal issue, while someone else just views it as a non-issue.
You read hostility in interesting places.
I'd like to hear your answers to my questions since we seem to have opposing views on what is a treat and how often is occasionally.
Well your last little comment on your post was unnecessarily rude, but that's kind of beside the point at this juncture of the conversation.
To answer your questions, I don't really have any answers because I don't think one way of living is better or worse than another way for everyone. That's why asked this question; to see other peoples opinions on the subject. And I certainly don't believe that people have to live their life the way I do, so my personal answers to the those questions would only apply to me in my life. I just view them as treats because I do, and I have them when I feel like I want a treat are my answers. And for me the definition of treat is something that special that you don't have all the time.
There was this kid who grew up across the street from us who was an only child. We'd go over there and her whole house was full of Twinkies, Devil Dogs, Pepsi, Ruffles potato chips, Pop Tarts, Hershey Bars, Hawaian Punch, Keebler Fudge crème filled cookies, Peppermint Patties, Yoo Hoos, and left over Kentucky Fried Chicken and pizza from the night before with Strawberry parfaits.
And she'd open the fridge and look in the cupboards and say "Oh. Let's have a peach and some ice water." Me and my sisters almost fainted but what could we say? Or it was "Let's have one cookie and some plain milk." She did this every time we went over there. It was mindboggling to us.
Ha ha I wonder if that's how my and my sisters friends felt. I mean we would eat ice cream and stuff when they would come over but I guess I've always just liked healthy food. I genuinely enjoy eating all my vegetables and I don't have a huge sweet tooth most of the time. When I do get a sweet tooth I give into my craving without thinking about it because I also know I don't eat a lot of sugar and I don't eat it very much. When I'm sitting watching TV on a lazy Saturday I love making a nice bowl of roasted Brussels sprouts to eat!1 -
saralukies wrote: »I grew up in the 80s, and my mom was a great cook, and we definitely only had sweet things for special occasions. She never bought sugar cereals or Poptarts or anything like that, although she would make a dessert maybe once a week. Now, she did encourage us to eat large portions, and she herself had to have weight loss surgery when I was a teenager, so this didn't necessarily work out to healthy eating practices. You can overeat on roast chicken, veggies, and potatoes just as easily as you can on sweets. (Well, maybe not just as easily, but it is not impossible) I think that might be why some are getting ruffled feathers. The access to sweets alone is not the cause of obesity, and the eating of sweets everyday is not automatically overeating.
Oh of course you can, totally. I just recently commented on another thread that same thing, that even if you eat healthy if you were eating a large portion you're still eating unhealthily. I mean I never mentioned over eating once in this post. I actually wasn't even thinking about that.
As I've tried to say my question was why do some people consider chips and soda and ice cream a treat while other people consider them just an average part of their diet. I don't think I mentioned or alluded to the concept over eating, unless people just misunderstood what I was saying or reading between the lines something that I never was intending to say if that makes sense.
I guess I don't understand why people are getting their feathers ruffled because I don't see food as an emotional issue, and it's kind of interesting for me to see that for some people it is because I'm learning a perspective that I didn't think about before which I think is good. It's actually good for everyone to understand that people don't think exactly like them, and I mean that for the people who disagree with me as well.0 -
A lot of people eat more than they need. Thats why mfp exists.
edited 4 spell mistake0 -
A lot of peole eat more than they need. Thats why mfp exists.
Of course they do, but that's not what I was saying in my post and I'm not sure what that has to do with anything on this particular thread.
Mfp is not just for people who are dieting or for people who are overweight, it's for people who are already active/healthy/whatever or are trying to gain weight as well. That's why I am on mfp, to track my calories/macros because I am very thin with a high metabolism, but I also lift and need to eat a decent amount of calories to gain the muscle I want to. I've been on this site since 2011.0 -
Oh gosh I'm old, I know you all knew that already
I grew up in post war, poor, working class, Manchester UK in the fifties. I had a ration book!
My dad was a bus conductor then driver, and drank most of his income. My mum scrubbed floors and worked in a factory to make ends meet.
Our food was very basic and structured around mealtimes. My mum was a good cook and made awesome, though plain, meals from what she had available. Cake and salad on Sunday made my week. There was fruit available for after tea (dinner) all the time.
Toast and tea for breakfast.
School dinner- meat potatoes and 2 veg for 5/- a week for lunch.
Smaller meat potatoes and veg type meal for dinner.
Cocoa, milk tea, or milk coffee, with a buscuit (cookie) or 2 before bed.
Every other Friday we would get fish and chips as take out. A big treat.
About once a week we would go visit a set of cousins, or they would visit us and the visitors would provide a chocolate bar or some change so we could go to the corner store and shop for our selves.
I never thought I had gone without or gone hungry. It was only years later I realized just how poor we had been and how many foods I had never experienced.
Hop forward to now. I still base my food around meals, though I have a much broader and adventurous palette, and have coffee and biscuits before bed.
I have never aquired a taste for fast/chain restaurant food, or snacking between meals.
That is just me- a creature of habit.
Cheers, h.6 -
A lot of peole eat more than they need. Thats why mfp exists.
Of course they do, but that's not what I was saying in my post and I'm not sure what that has to do with anything on this particular thread.
Mfp is not just for people who are dieting or for people who are overweight, it's for people who are already active/healthy/whatever or are trying to gain weight as well. That's why I am on mfp, to track my calories/macros because I am very thin with a high metabolism, but I also lift and need to eat a decent amount of calories to gain the muscle I want to. I've been on this site since 2011.
U R being a wee bit oversensitive about my comment. best wishes on ur goals
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middlehaitch wrote: »Oh gosh I'm old, I know you all knew that already
I grew up in post war, poor, working class, Manchester UK in the fifties. I had a ration book!
My dad was a bus conductor then driver, and drank most of his income. My mum scrubbed floors and worked in a factory to make ends meet.
Our food was very basic and structured around mealtimes. My mum was a good cook and made awesome, though plain, meals from what she had available. Cake and salad on Sunday made my week. There was fruit available for after tea (dinner) all the time.
Toast and tea for breakfast.
School dinner- meat potatoes and 2 veg for 5/- a week for lunch.
Smaller meat potatoes and veg type meal for dinner.
Cocoa, milk tea, or milk coffee, with a buscuit (cookie) or 2 before bed.
Every other Friday we would get fish and chips as take out. A big treat.
About once a week we would go visit a set of cousins, or they would visit us and the visitors would provide a chocolate bar or some change so we could go to the corner store and shop for our selves.
I never thought I had gone without or gone hungry. It was only years later I realized just how poor we had been and how many foods I had never experienced.
Hop forward to now. I still base my food around meals, though I have a much broader and adventurous palette, and have coffee and biscuits before bed.
I have never aquired a taste for fast/chain restaurant food, or snacking between meals.
That is just me- a creature of habit.
Cheers, h.
I've retained a three meals a day habit, and have added a bedtime snack in my older years. Treats snd snacks remain for special occassions. The thing that has changed is the variety of foods I eat. There are so many new foods available now.
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Same when I grew up, we didn't really get any sweets/biscuits during the week and in the weekend we all got a small bowl with crisps. Cakes only on birthdays and no take-aways or fizzy drinks. McD didn't even exist back then where I lived.
That's 40 years ago though, there just wasn't that much around then.
My children now get a treat every day after school like a small chocolate bar and I would have something every day too. Could be more than once a day as well. Crazy really, it's just become such a habit. We don't really do take-aways though, maybe 3 times a year. It's not cheap and usually not even that nice anyway. We cook from scratch pretty much every day so I'm hoping that on the whole we're reasonably okay in our diet.1 -
Soooo many hangry replies... you guys don't have to take a post in Debate as a personal attack, you know.
OP I get what you're trying to say... it seems to me like non-nutritional food is more widely available. But honestly, the onward march of constant advertising, plus the fact we are all more connected than ever via internet etc., just makes it seem like suddenly everyone is drinking Coke all the livelong day.
So the answer I think is... the junk food didn't stop being an occasional treat for a lot of people... it just appears that it did.5 -
I was a child in the 1950s-70s (I'm 61.) There's not the slightest question in my mind that the availability, variety, marketing, and portion size of fast food, take out, prepared food products in grocery stores, and sweet/salty/fat-focused snack foods have increased dramatically since then.
I still visit the small town (population around 1800) in a rural area where I grew up. I can compare what was there then vs. now. There are literally 5 times as many fast food outlets, for example (10 vs. 2).
Standard soda/pop containers were smaller, most gas stations didn't include full convenience stores (maybe but not always a pop machine and a rack of candy bars/chips).
A wider variety of "good" foods are widely available in stores now, too -international foods, all-season fresh produce, seafood, etc. The average grocery store is bigger and more varied.
I could go on and on. Truly, the US food culture is different
That said, even in my childhood, family food culture varied a lot in things like whether people drank pop regularly with meals, had desserts, cooked from scratch vs. eating a lot of "TV dinners" (what frozen prepared meals were called, and the commonest alternative to actual home-prepared foods).
Some of those differences probably had socioeconomic or class tendencies, but I can't say that those were absolute.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »IDK...I think it's been a long time. I'm 42 and when I was a kid, my family definitely treated treats like treats, we rarely ate out, etc...part of that was because we were poor and part of that was my mom not wanting my sister and I to eat like crap.
On the other hand, I liked going to friends houses because it seemed like they always had "the goods"...sleep overs and Fruit Loops for breakfast, etc. One of my dad's really good friends was pretty well to do and they ate out frequently...I was always a little jealous. We only ever ate out on Sunday after church.
This was actually part of the reason I hated visiting friends when I was younger. It was one of those "I've been taught to not he rude, but I really don't want to eat this garbage" scenarios. I was used to eggs for breakfast. The hell is this bowl of sugar nonsense?
My ex-girlfriend always used to crack on me: "you're an embarrassment to fat people...how the hell do you not like candy?" Pfft, I got fat the old fashioned way: fried chicken, 73/27 ground beef, eggs and beans.8 -
I was a child in the 1950s-70s (I'm 61.) There's not the slightest question in my mind that the availability, variety, marketing, and portion size of fast food, take out, prepared food products in grocery stores, and sweet/salty/fat-focused snack foods have increased dramatically since then.
Agreed and my frame of reference is the 70s/80s.
However, availability is not the main reason, in my opinion, it is cost. In relative terms the cost of food, especially junk food, is dramatically lower now than what it was in the past.
In 1960 the average person spent a little under 20% of their income on food. Now it's under 10%.
Eating out, ice cream and sweets were very much treats when I grew up.
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Families have gone from 1 parent working to 2 while food has gotten cheaper. This puts the cost of someones free time to cook as higher while the cost of outsourcing cooking is lower.
Home ec isn't taught as much and a whole generation is coming up not knowing how to cook from scratch. I have friends who don't know how to make even simple foods. Last summer we were all at a cabin and my making lasagna when internet was down so no online recipe amazed the houseful because nobody else knew how. When the next morning I made blueberry muffins and poached eggs without an online cookbook you should have seen the amazement.
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I think people underestimate the power of advertisements, brand recognition and brand loyalty. People tend to make an emotional connection with food and they also make an emotional connection with brands. Also let's be honest, the fact that there is no shame attached with overeating the way there used to be accounts for some of it. We have turned it into a national pastime to over indulge. There is almost a social pressure to join in or else you are seen as a wet blanket. Even in this thread there are people who are offended and defensive because others eat a more nutrient dense diet.
I also think many people have out of control drinking problems or prescription drug problems that impact their ability to make good food choices.6 -
I think people underestimate the power of advertisements, brand recognition and brand loyalty. People tend to make an emotional connection with food and they also make an emotional connection with brands. Also let's be honest, the fact that there is no shame attached with overeating the way there used to be accounts for some of it. We have turned it into a national pastime to over indulge. There is almost a social pressure to join in or else you are seen as a wet blanket. Even in this thread there are people who are offended and defensive because others eat a more nutrient dense diet.
I also think many people have out of control drinking problems or prescription drug problems that impact their ability to make good food choices.
That's a good point and I didn't think about it like that.
I also find it interesting that I am being judged for my diet by people who, in the same breath, are telling me not to judge them for their diet. I never came from a place of judgment in my post, I came from a place of curiosity, and people seem to get so defensive and upset by me just asking a generic question on an observation I thought I had made.5 -
I think people underestimate the power of advertisements, brand recognition and brand loyalty. People tend to make an emotional connection with food and they also make an emotional connection with brands. Also let's be honest, the fact that there is no shame attached with overeating the way there used to be accounts for some of it. We have turned it into a national pastime to over indulge. There is almost a social pressure to join in or else you are seen as a wet blanket. Even in this thread there are people who are offended and defensive because others eat a more nutrient dense diet.
I also think many people have out of control drinking problems or prescription drug problems that impact their ability to make good food choices.
That's a good point and I didn't think about it like that.
I also find it interesting that I am being judged for my diet by people who, in the same breath, are telling me not to judge them for their diet. I never came from a place of judgment in my post, I came from a place of curiosity, and people seem to get so defensive and upset by me just asking a generic question on an observation I thought I had made.
I fail to see this judgement. It's best not to read tone through text because that is usually where people go wrong.7
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