When did junk food/sweets/fast food stop being just an occasional treat?
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I think people underestimate the power of advertisements, brand recognition and brand loyalty. People tend to make an emotional connection with food and they also make an emotional connection with brands. Also let's be honest, the fact that there is no shame attached with overeating the way there used to be accounts for some of it. We have turned it into a national pastime to over indulge. There is almost a social pressure to join in or else you are seen as a wet blanket. Even in this thread there are people who are offended and defensive because others eat a more nutrient dense diet.
I also think many people have out of control drinking problems or prescription drug problems that impact their ability to make good food choices.
That's a good point and I didn't think about it like that.
I also find it interesting that I am being judged for my diet by people who, in the same breath, are telling me not to judge them for their diet. I never came from a place of judgment in my post, I came from a place of curiosity, and people seem to get so defensive and upset by me just asking a generic question on an observation I thought I had made.
I haven't seen any judgement, and I haven't seen any reason why you keep popping in to ponder why people are getting upset and defensive.
You posted this as a debate. Debates involve people disagreeing with each other and strongly stating their opinions. That's what's happening here. Maybe you should read some of the other debate threads, the ones with lots of posts, and then come back and read this thread with fresh eyes. :drinker:7 -
I think people underestimate the power of advertisements, brand recognition and brand loyalty. People tend to make an emotional connection with food and they also make an emotional connection with brands. Also let's be honest, the fact that there is no shame attached with overeating the way there used to be accounts for some of it. We have turned it into a national pastime to over indulge. There is almost a social pressure to join in or else you are seen as a wet blanket. Even in this thread there are people who are offended and defensive because others eat a more nutrient dense diet.
I also think many people have out of control drinking problems or prescription drug problems that impact their ability to make good food choices.
That's a good point and I didn't think about it like that.
I also find it interesting that I am being judged for my diet by people who, in the same breath, are telling me not to judge them for their diet. I never came from a place of judgment in my post, I came from a place of curiosity, and people seem to get so defensive and upset by me just asking a generic question on an observation I thought I had made.
I haven't seen any judgement, and I haven't seen any reason why you keep popping in to ponder why people are getting upset and defensive.
You posted this as a debate. Debates involve people disagreeing with each other and strongly stating their opinions. That's what's happening here. Maybe you should read some of the other debate threads, the ones with lots of posts, and then come back and read this thread with fresh eyes. :drinker:
I was responding to their observation with my observation. We appeared to a similar observation. And there have been other people who commented on here also saying that people were getting defensive so it's not just me that took some of the answers that way. And it's my post so of course I'm going to respond to replies on it.
Of course people are going to disagree on a debate topic, that's why I posted it here...to learn about other people's viewpoints.
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I think people underestimate the power of advertisements, brand recognition and brand loyalty. People tend to make an emotional connection with food and they also make an emotional connection with brands. Also let's be honest, the fact that there is no shame attached with overeating the way there used to be accounts for some of it. We have turned it into a national pastime to over indulge. There is almost a social pressure to join in or else you are seen as a wet blanket. Even in this thread there are people who are offended and defensive because others eat a more nutrient dense diet.
I also think many people have out of control drinking problems or prescription drug problems that impact their ability to make good food choices.
That's a good point and I didn't think about it like that.
I also find it interesting that I am being judged for my diet by people who, in the same breath, are telling me not to judge them for their diet. I never came from a place of judgment in my post, I came from a place of curiosity, and people seem to get so defensive and upset by me just asking a generic question on an observation I thought I had made.
I haven't seen any judgement, and I haven't seen any reason why you keep popping in to ponder why people are getting upset and defensive.
You posted this as a debate. Debates involve people disagreeing with each other and strongly stating their opinions. That's what's happening here. Maybe you should read some of the other debate threads, the ones with lots of posts, and then come back and read this thread with fresh eyes. :drinker:
I was responding to their observation with my observation. We appeared to a similar observation. And there have been other people who commented on here also saying that people were getting defensive so it's not just me that took some of the answers that way. And it's my post so of course I'm going to respond to replies on it.
Of course people are going to disagree on a debate topic, that's why I posted it here...to learn about other people's viewpoints.
Disagreeing does not equal defensive or getting upset. It's best to focus on what's being said instead of how it's being said on a message board. Especially a debate board.6 -
I'm 30. My sister and I grew up in a single-parent household. My mother worked 2-3 jobs to make ends meet, so we grew up on reduced school breakfast and lunch and frozen dinners. And while our food wasn't healthy, we also didn't have access to a lot of sweets and soda. Take out was a treat, and restaurant eating was only a few times a year. And I was very active. Once I became a teenager, I started buying my own packaged food to replace the school food, but I was still active, so while I filled out, I was still in a healthy weight. It wasn't until I got out of college and started a sedentary job that I started to gain too much weight.2
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I'm 30, grew up with two parents working full time on an organic farm in a very small town.
We always had something like a box of cookies/sugary cereal OR a container of ice cream in the house, but not a full pantry full. And I pretty much always had free reign of them. Sugary cereals were for SNACKS not breakfast, my sister & I also baked our own sugary snacks.
We always sat down & ate dinner as a family, and my parents insisted that we always eat a proper vegetable (corn is a grain, potatoes are a starch, carrots and spinach are vegetables.)
We frequently ate out on weekend in a larger nearby city, at a local restaurant, rarely fast food or a chain. But never during the week because there weren't really any restaurants in our town.
I still basically eat like this, have a 'proper dinner' but cookies are fair game if I am still hungry.
I still think of sugary snacks as a 'treat'. Just also I think I deserve a 'treat' basically every day.0 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »I think people underestimate the power of advertisements, brand recognition and brand loyalty. People tend to make an emotional connection with food and they also make an emotional connection with brands. Also let's be honest, the fact that there is no shame attached with overeating the way there used to be accounts for some of it. We have turned it into a national pastime to over indulge. There is almost a social pressure to join in or else you are seen as a wet blanket. Even in this thread there are people who are offended and defensive because others eat a more nutrient dense diet.
I also think many people have out of control drinking problems or prescription drug problems that impact their ability to make good food choices.
That's a good point and I didn't think about it like that.
I also find it interesting that I am being judged for my diet by people who, in the same breath, are telling me not to judge them for their diet. I never came from a place of judgment in my post, I came from a place of curiosity, and people seem to get so defensive and upset by me just asking a generic question on an observation I thought I had made.
I haven't seen any judgement, and I haven't seen any reason why you keep popping in to ponder why people are getting upset and defensive.
You posted this as a debate. Debates involve people disagreeing with each other and strongly stating their opinions. That's what's happening here. Maybe you should read some of the other debate threads, the ones with lots of posts, and then come back and read this thread with fresh eyes. :drinker:
I was responding to their observation with my observation. We appeared to a similar observation. And there have been other people who commented on here also saying that people were getting defensive so it's not just me that took some of the answers that way. And it's my post so of course I'm going to respond to replies on it.
Of course people are going to disagree on a debate topic, that's why I posted it here...to learn about other people's viewpoints.
Disagreeing does not equal defensive or getting upset. It's best to focus on what's being said instead of how it's being said on a message board. Especially a debate board.
I respect your opinion completely and I do get what you're saying. But there have been a small handful of replies that what they actually said, not the tone, was defensive. When some people debate they can't do so without getting defensive. I don't think I said I thought anyone was getting upset, because I think there's a difference between being defensive and being upset, but if I did I certainly didn't intend to do that.
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I think people underestimate the power of advertisements, brand recognition and brand loyalty. People tend to make an emotional connection with food and they also make an emotional connection with brands. Also let's be honest, the fact that there is no shame attached with overeating the way there used to be accounts for some of it. We have turned it into a national pastime to over indulge. There is almost a social pressure to join in or else you are seen as a wet blanket. Even in this thread there are people who are offended and defensive because others eat a more nutrient dense diet.
I also think many people have out of control drinking problems or prescription drug problems that impact their ability to make good food choices.
That's a good point and I didn't think about it like that.
I also find it interesting that I am being judged for my diet by people who, in the same breath, are telling me not to judge them for their diet. I never came from a place of judgment in my post, I came from a place of curiosity, and people seem to get so defensive and upset by me just asking a generic question on an observation I thought I had made.
I didn't see where you were 'judged' for your diet? I also didn't see where people were defensive or upset by you.
Usually the debate section just asks for people to back up their statements with science or data.
It is sometimes hard to read things without attributing tone to statements. So maybe just address the facts more than the attitude? IDK, hope that helps.
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Why do these items have to be occasional treats? How often is occasional? What's wrong with having them daily?
I didn't have a lot of fast food growing up because I lived in a small town that didn't/couldn't support fast food places. My parents were working and raising 5 kids. I generally had free time on my hands and my folks didn't give much care about what I ate as long as I was quiet while Mom was sleeping and came home when it got dark out. I ate plenty of junk food, probably 90% of my diet was candy bars, beef jerky, soda pop, and potato chips.
Eating dessert twice a day keeps me from getting stabby. Apologies that that doesn't fit in your world.
To be honest, I'm a little surprised by the hostility. I don't think that I'm being rude or judgmental, in fact I have said that I am not advocating towards any persons diet. And I never said my way was the right way. I just think it's interesting that while one person can view cookies as a treat, another person can view cookies as something that is needed every day. And maybe it was the culture of the neighborhood I grew up in, or my state, or just the people I was around but those things were always considered treats so when I realize people didn't consider them treats it was just interesting to me.
It's also interesting that one person can view food as such an emotional personal issue, while someone else just views it as a non-issue.
You read hostility in interesting places.
I'd like to hear your answers to my questions since we seem to have opposing views on what is a treat and how often is occasionally.
Well your last little comment on your post was unnecessarily rude, but that's kind of beside the point at this juncture of the conversation.
To answer your questions, I don't really have any answers because I don't think one way of living is better or worse than another way for everyone. That's why asked this question; to see other peoples opinions on the subject. And I certainly don't believe that people have to live their life the way I do, so my personal answers to the those questions would only apply to me in my life. I just view them as treats because I do, and I have them when I feel like I want a treat are my answers. And for me the definition of treat is something that special that you don't have all the time.
Ah. Under that definition, treats for me would be things like sushi/sashimi, smoked salmon, caviar (love salmon caviar), lobster rolls, etc. I.e. food I really like but too expensive to buy even once a month, or not available to me unless I go on a trip (good lobster rolls - rare as hen's teeth in TX).
I've never thought of fast food or sweets as 'something that special'. I mean, there's an exception or two - buckeyes that we only make at Christmas, pumpkin pie that we only make at Thanksgiving, opera fudge that will probably never be made again because of the effort involved (and relatively low probability of success after all the work).0 -
Like many of the other posters, my own experience had multiple factors at play. I grew up in the 70s with a SAHM. We almost never ate out, but that was partly due to our family situation (dad was always out running around on my mom & we only had the 1 car). My mom wasn't a health fanatic nor overly restrictive, but I only remember having soda on (homemade) pizza night once a month, occasional baked goods, and a single candy bar once in a while (no packages of them in the house). I remember sugary cereal occasionally (I loved Fruity Freakies!) and gorging on candy on holidays. But basically, my mom was there and monitored what I ate, and I knew this stuff was the exception and not the rule.
But here's the interesting thing. Even though I was never deprived, we had a stressful home life. And I liked sweets. I was a food sneaker. When mom would go out to hang laundry, I'd be in the peanut butter jar or sneaking a square from a Hershey bar she'd keep stashed for herself (and more than once got chewed out for having finished it off and replaced the wrapper in tact so she didn't realize she was out). Once I was out of the house, I freely indulged in all the sweet things I enjoyed- why only "treat" yourself occasionally when life is so stressful- and combined with a more sedentary lifestyle (driving instead of walking everywhere, less activity at my job than I'd had in school), I started packing on weight quickly. Also, I had met my husband by then and eating out was our most common dating activity.
By this time, there was a fast food place on every corner and any time you didn't particularly feel like cooking or were a little short on time, you could grab something cheap & calorific. And now, of course, this is the lifestyle for many people. Not to mention they may come home to a party size bag of m&ms in the cupboard, because it's cheaper & more convenient to buy them that way (or is that just me?
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So from my experience, it seems like a hot mess of generational differences, economics, family breakdown, stress, laziness, personal psychological issues & convenience. Can't draw a lot of conclusions from that. 5 -
I was a child in the 1950s-70s (I'm 61.) There's not the slightest question in my mind that the availability, variety, marketing, and portion size of fast food, take out, prepared food products in grocery stores, and sweet/salty/fat-focused snack foods have increased dramatically since then.
I still visit the small town (population around 1800) in a rural area where I grew up. I can compare what was there then vs. now. There are literally 5 times as many fast food outlets, for example (10 vs. 2).
Standard soda/pop containers were smaller, most gas stations didn't include full convenience stores (maybe but not always a pop machine and a rack of candy bars/chips).
A wider variety of "good" foods are widely available in stores now, too -international foods, all-season fresh produce, seafood, etc. The average grocery store is bigger and more varied.
I could go on and on. Truly, the US food culture is different
That said, even in my childhood, family food culture varied a lot in things like whether people drank pop regularly with meals, had desserts, cooked from scratch vs. eating a lot of "TV dinners" (what frozen prepared meals were called, and the commonest alternative to actual home-prepared foods).
Some of those differences probably had socioeconomic or class tendencies, but I can't say that those were absolute.
I'm 47, but all of this rings true to me too.
I eat basically like when I grew up, except the options are greater -- Chinese and Mexican and Italian (which meant spaghetti, not pasta) -- was basically the extent of "ethnic" cuisine. My parents had some Indian friends so we were exposed to that early on, but with my child's palate I didn't care for it then (Mexican either). Now -- and granted this is partly because I'm in a big city and didn't grow up in one, but it's also just times changing -- everything seems to be available (and could be with just a click of the internet for food delivery from a huge range of places). The options in the supermarket are greater, including for things like fresh produce, fish, and various stuff from other cultures. More people seem to be into cooking and using local ingredients and all that (vs. cans), but that could be socio-economic changes for me. Portion sizes are larger. I don't think things like snacky foods and fast food is more available, or pop, but I do think that it seems common for people to consume it more than when I was a kid (and I think the stats back me up there), but the difference is not access. (On the other hand, I am sure some had it more than we did back when I was a kid, and many people I know almost never have it and feed their children pretty similarly to what I recall.)
I think food is around more in workplaces and such, eating between meals (other than a planned after school snack for kids) seems more common, and my workplaces have certainly all done a lot of wining and dining and such, but that last I don't think is a change -- the 3 martini lunch used to be a thing, and that went out before I started working (at least in my experience).
Whatever all this means, probably nothing!1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »IDK...I think it's been a long time. I'm 42 and when I was a kid, my family definitely treated treats like treats, we rarely ate out, etc...part of that was because we were poor and part of that was my mom not wanting my sister and I to eat like crap.
On the other hand, I liked going to friends houses because it seemed like they always had "the goods"...sleep overs and Fruit Loops for breakfast, etc. One of my dad's really good friends was pretty well to do and they ate out frequently...I was always a little jealous. We only ever ate out on Sunday after church.
This was actually part of the reason I hated visiting friends when I was younger. It was one of those "I've been taught to not he rude, but I really don't want to eat this garbage" scenarios. I was used to eggs for breakfast. The hell is this bowl of sugar nonsense?
Heh, you are one of the few weirdos like me on this topic that I've found.
We were permitted to have sugary cereal, my sister loved it (my sister almost never eats sweet snacks now, doesn't have much of a sweet tooth, and has always been thin, but as a kid she'd add sugar to Froot Loops), but for whatever reason I always hated it (also hated packaged bread -- I guess carbs aren't my main weakness, heh), and had eggs. I'd choke down the invariable cereal at friends' houses when I spent the night, but I hated it.1 -
If I had to put an approximate time to the period when the variety & ubiquity of fast foods, snack foods & prepared foods really started to explode during my life, I'd guess mid to late 1960s.
It was pretty much in full swing by the time I was in college in the mid 1970s, though of course it did and still does continue to evolve.
I'm sure my perception is colored by living in a rural/small town setting in childhood, but we visited a nearby good-sized city frequently, and marketing was national for these things.
I'd be interested in what other old people here recall - whether they perceive the phenomenon the way I do, and on what timeline.
(I hope OP thinks this is on topic - not trying to hijack.)
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »I think how people eat is their own personal business.
Totally respect that and I'm not advocating one way or another.
I'm just wondering why attitudes towards sweets and fast food have changed, or why people view them so much differently.
That is your personal experience. I am sure there were families that ate sweets regularly while you were growing up.
I think that you are being defensive which is stopping you from seeing his point. He is talking about how many years ago 1950's and 60's it was not the norm to eat junk food in the quantities that we eat them in today. There are studies to back this up.2 -
Its funny how everyone one grew up eating differently yet we're all still here on this weight loss site
seems like it may not matter much then. 3 -
Shanel0916 wrote: »Its funny how everyone one grew up eating differently yet we're all still here on this weight loss site seems like it may not matter much then.
We're not all here for the same reasons.3 -
Shanel0916 wrote: »Its funny how everyone one grew up eating differently yet we're all still here on this weight loss site seems like it may not matter much then.
Because it is a tool used for a multitude of purposes?
From weight loss to muscle gain?
Generalisation...3 -
squatsanddeadlift wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »I think how people eat is their own personal business.
Totally respect that and I'm not advocating one way or another.
I'm just wondering why attitudes towards sweets and fast food have changed, or why people view them so much differently.
That is your personal experience. I am sure there were families that ate sweets regularly while you were growing up.
I think that you are being defensive which is stopping you from seeing his point. He is talking about how many years ago 1950's and 60's it was not the norm to eat junk food in the quantities that we eat them in today. There are studies to back this up.
Nope. Wrong. But good try.0 -
Just a thought I've been having for a while, that I wanted to see other opinions.
Growing up, my family never really ordered in food or had fast food. We only ate that stuff if it was a special occasion. We also had cookies, candy, ice cream, and all those other foods at home but they were never a part of my every day diet. They were treats that we would eat maybe on a weekend or on family game night, or if we had friends over. My mom was a great baker, but she only baked cakes and sweets on birthdays or for bake sales, things like that....or if she wanted to treat us to something special on a weekend or for a barbecue.
So I grew up with a pretty healthy diet, and was not being deprived of sweets from time to time. I'm an adult now and that attitude has definitely continued with me. I don't eat that stuff on an every day basis and I don't really feel like I'm missing out. When I do have cake and cookies and things like that I consider it a treat and it kind of makes it more fun to have it since I don't have things like that a lot.
I've been on the site since 2011, but I didn't really start posting on here until recently. One thing I noticed when I started reading these forums years ago was that things like cookies and pop and cake were a part of peoples every day diet. I just kind of figured everybody viewed those items as treats. I realize now that many people think of those things as necessities.
Just wondering what everyone's view of this is. Is it better if cake and cookies are viewed as a special treat? Or should they be considered an acceptable part of an every day diet? Has anyone else noticed this change in attitude towards sweets or am I alone?
Edit: I suppose my overall question is, why do so many people have such different attitudes towards food? Why is food and emotional issue for some people, when for other people it's not? why do you some food items have different definitions for different people? All things that are just interesting to me, I like learning about other people and their attitudes.
Also want to clarify that my parents wouldn't have cared if we ate the candy and ice cream that was in our house as long as we asked first. I guess i just really didn't because I always viewed it as something special and not for every day.
My home eating was the same as yours. But around age 25 I started to have disposable income. So, I'd go out to eat occasionally as a treat. Since I ate out so rarely, I'd get an app, entree, and dessert. Then I met my now hubs. With two incomes we were eating out ALL THE TIME! Eating out for him was a way of life. For me, it was a treat. He'd order a salad. I'd order nachos, steak, and cheesecake. Yep, got pretty fat pretty fast. So we started eating at home. Then I realized, I was still making our plates the same size. Ok, my hubs is 6 foot. I'm 5'3. Why didn't I realize we shouldn't eat the same amount?
So getting fat was 100% my husband's fault.
Kidding, but yes. I made bad choices because I could afford to and was fat and happy.2 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »squatsanddeadlift wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »I think how people eat is their own personal business.
Totally respect that and I'm not advocating one way or another.
I'm just wondering why attitudes towards sweets and fast food have changed, or why people view them so much differently.
That is your personal experience. I am sure there were families that ate sweets regularly while you were growing up.
I think that you are being defensive which is stopping you from seeing his point. He is talking about how many years ago 1950's and 60's it was not the norm to eat junk food in the quantities that we eat them in today. There are studies to back this up.
Nope. Wrong. But good try.
I have seen the error of my ways, good job.
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Shanel0916 wrote: »Its funny how everyone one grew up eating differently yet we're all still here on this weight loss site seems like it may not matter much then.
IDK...my weight gain was largely attributable to graduating college at 30 and taking a desk job...I went from being really active...I had no car and biked and walked everywhere...I hiked regularly...played Ultimate Frisbee with my buddies...hit the weight room worked landscape construction in the summer and retail or waited tables during the school year to commuting daily by car and working 12+ hour days behind a desk.
I basically became very sedentary and didn't make time for deliberate exercise. My diet was never particularly horrible...my activity level just tanked.3
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