Eating what you want within calories vs Keto within calories

I like keto personally; I also have done a little self-experimentation and found that I maintain on ~1800-1900 when doing keto, versus ~1600-1700 at more moderate carb intake, after adjusting for TEF and keeping protein intake constant. So, I like that I can eat a little more. I also have crazy cravings when I eat more carbs. I don't think in general I have to keep it to keto levels to fight these -- for instance, I'll have apples or some sweet potato sometimes, but if I'm up over 100 g/day or if I'm eating sweets or crackers or whatever, I'll usually blow my calorie limit.

I'd say keep trying keto for about a month if you feel good on it, and if you still have lots of cravings after that, or if all your favorite foods are higher carb, then it's probably not for you. Also, I don't feel it's always necessary to restrict carbs to keto levels to get the same satiety benefits, especially if you're exercising regularly, but I know that it's helpful for some.

I like carbs, and find they very helpful when I am actively cycling during the warmer months. For me, eating during a smaller window is what helps me feel full and not cranky. If you took carbs from me I would feel miserable. From what I have read the actual fat loss over time is the same for both although keto might give a quickly initial weight loss from water weight as one stored glycogen levels go down. Pick what works for you so you can comply with a calorie deficit.

Fortunately there's a gigantic continuum of food selections between "keto" and "eat whatever I want".

In my opinion, there's a good probability that you just need to modify your food choices to improve satiety without necessarily going on a ketogenic diet.


I feel like we are discussing the endpoints here and excluding the middle.

nvmomketo wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

menotyou56 wrote: »

k_e_l wrote: »

Hi guys!

Just wondering how many of you have tried both keto (within your calorie limit) & eating whatever you want (within your calorie limit)? What did you find was easier to do?

I've tried eating anything I want to a set calorie goal many times. Failed them all every time as well lol. If I say to myself, go ahead and have that reese's pbc just count the cals...by the end of the day the whole bag is gone and I'm back to square one.

But then you AREN'T eating a balanced diet within your calorie limit, right?

I would always feel intense hunger on a CICO only diet as well. 24/7. Going to bed, waking up and in the middle of the day, hunger.

There are usually other ways of eating that control this besides keto.

Not saying you shouldn't do keto if you like it -- I think keto can be a good choice for some. But so often people switch from a diet that wasn't particularly what is normally recommended for health or satiety (for example, includes a lot of candy or other junk foods, not a lot of veg or other sources of fiber, maybe lower on protein than what they later adopt) and then blame "carbs" or not doing keto for their hunger issues.

I think for some of us, a LCHF, often keto, diet is what is left after you remove those trigger foods that prevent us from eating within our calories limit. (I wouldn't say "balanced" as that is a personal interpretation, IMO.)

Yes, I think that's possible, but so many people say that they raised protein and vegetables eating low carb that I think many don't genuinely try eating a sensible healthful diet that has higher carbs (for many the "trigger" foods seem to be things like candy, as the poster mentioned, and not oats or apples or corn, and yet "carbs" are blamed vs. "hyperpalatable foods" or eating an unbalanced, not particularly satisfying diet before going keto).

I do agree that for some -- you are one, there are some other frequent lower carb posters -- there does seem to be an issue with any higher carb foods (like starches in general, fruit) making a diet less satiating. My pet theory is that this may be related to a problem with insulin resistance, but who knows, but I see many others who claim that "cutting carbs" made the diet more filling when the prior diet wasn't close to what anyone would call satiating or healthful and included lots of foods that are high fat AND high carb that for some reason get classified as "carbs" (like donuts, chips).

I also think that independent of what macro is most satiating that some do have issues with hunger and that keto (probably because for the body it mimicks starvation in some ways) tends to kill the appetite. I suspect that most people who eat a healthful diet with more carbs won't have hunger as a major thing (or can deal with mental hunger by breaking bad habits), but I do think people are different and for some this effect of keto can be enormously valuable (while for others it never kicks in or is counterproductive).

All I object to are: (a) claims that "carbs" aren't filling when what people are referring to are specific carbs (like candy, donuts) that often also are high in fat, (b) claims that we all find fat filling and carbs not; and (c) claims that anyone not doing keto/low carb will be struggling with hunger or cravings. There are ways I can eat that DO cause hunger or cravings to be a problem (I shifted away from them naturally, as I think anyone sensible should), but it has nothing to do with carb %.

My trigger foods are sugars and starches. That leaves meats, seafood, eggs, dairy, veggies and some fruit. That tends towards low carb (under 100-150g of carbs per day) very naturally. Many people eat low carb because they have chosen those foods. Their macros naturally land there. I think you fall around that range (correct me if I am wrong).

Yes, I naturally end up around 150 g carbs when at maintenance and less (more like 100-125 g) when at a deficit, and I really enjoy eating that way as it allows me to eat a bit more fat which isn't specifically satiating to me (protein is, so is fiber and some other carbs like potatoes, and I find just a plate of vegetables pretty filling or a piece of fruit), but which I love and find makes my diet overall more enjoyable. I've tried lower fat since I've toyed with plant based, and tend to be less satisfied although never hungry. I'm more apt to desire other foods in a hedonistic way than when eating a higher fat and protein diet. And yes, I naturally think of the meat or other source of protein plus vegetables as making a full meal and other things as extras, so that's how I naturally tend to eat. That happens without me watching macros at all and did when I was gaining weight too, which is why for me I know just cutting carbs doesn't ensure weight loss/maintenance.

But all that aside, I don't think of my carb percentage as low carb -- it's moderate carb. I'd say at a lower cal level low is under 100 g, and of course that's WAY above keto.

Others, like me, landed at that diet/food choices because of our chosen macros. For me, I knew I needed to eat fewer carbs due to IR. We ended up with similar food choices but approached it from different directions.

Yeah, I agree with this, except I don't think we have similar food choices, really. But I see nothing wrong with lower carb and would probably fall within the broadest lower carb umbrella myself, certainly when at a deficit. I've experimented with trying to force myself to eat higher carb to see if it helped my training and concluded that even if it did, a little, I really don't like eating that way and prefer more moderate carb or slightly lower carb for me personally. I also often write about how I think low carb can be a good choice for people (including keto), so long as it doesn't mean cutting out/giving up on vegetables, of course, and that what people find satisfying and satiating is individual. I think I understand why people would find low carb preferable and recommend that anyone interested experiment with it.

This is why I find it frustrating that you seem to peg me as anti LC or complain when I point out that it's not the right choice for everyone and that traditional healthy diets are commonly higher carb. My point is never that low carb is bad, but only that low carb isn't right for everyone or somehow inherently healthier, especially if people focus on their reaction to low nutrient/high fat and carb junk foods as what "carbs" are.

(I include this last paragraph as I would like to get past this as I don't think we are as far apart on all this as you often seem to believe, from my reading of your comments toward me.)