How to battle sugar addiction
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Jerome's rules for battling sugar:
1. Abandon hope. You cannot eliminate all sugar from your food.
2. Create a plan to minimize the consumption of sugar with your food.
3. In order of importance, accept with a zen tranquility that vegetables do have sugar and you should consume abundant vegetables each day. Next, accept with zen tranquility that fruits do have sugar and a few fruits should be consumed each day. From here, it gets more confusing as less zen tranquility and more spartan warrior mentality is needed to recognize, discern, use, and reject sugar in its many diverse appearances in our food supply. For starters, get a supply of sugar substitute. There are several which are really and truly harmless which can be used in place of sugar to sweeten foods. After that, identify your candied weaknesses and make war on them. Purge them from your abode.
I agree and totally love this "Battle Plan." Except I personally disagree about the sugar substitutes, and I'd strongly recommend using them sparingly and cautiously until you know how they affect you. For me they cause cravings at best, and the non-digestible sort wreak utter havoc on my digestive system at worst. Maybe neither of those will be true for you though.
I know I basically said as much in my post above but I really wanted to second "Jerome's Rules" - some great wisdom here.1 -
3rdof7sisters wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »Addictive behavior, is it hard wired into us, or something we choose?
People choose to smoke, drink, use illegal drugs, gambling, or whatever the addiction may be, it certainly is not a necessity of life, none the less, truly addictive to some, while others can try something once, or never, and not feel any need to ever try it again.
You can not live without eating. It seems to me that, at least technically, we are all addicted to food. If you do not eat, you can put your health seriously at risk and will die if you don't eat at all. It could be psychological addiction to certain types of foods, ie sweet, salty, but does that make it less real? So much is really unknown, even by so called experts. We know ourselves best. What will trigger our reactions and how we can, or can not, handle it.
if you don't breath you will die too, are we also addicted to breathing..
doing something to sustain bodily function and life does not equal addiction ...
It isn't exactly a bodily function, nor is it involuntary, as breathing is. I also happen to believe that it is not an addiction (craving and overindulging in sugary foods). I have lived long enough to know that I can speak for no one else besides myself. There is no possible way to know for a fact that people that believe that they are addicted to sugar, or anything for that matter, aren't. There are experts who disagree on both sides of the issue. All I am saying is that I believe there are people who are convinced that they are addicted to sugar. What makes you so sure that they are not? Where is your expertise on this? How can you possibly know for a fact?
Show me a study of humans showing linkage to sugar and physical addiction and we can talk.
So, you are of the opinion that "I don't believe it, so it isn't".
And you are saying "physical" addiction. I am not so sure that "psychological" addiction is not possible for some people, and that it can be very real.
Google "is sugar addictive" are you open minded enough to consider the possibility that for some, it may be?
I am not saying that it is or isn't addictive. I am not addicted to sugar, but I do love sweets and have learned to moderate my intake. I am however open to the possibility that for some people, they are convinced that they are addicted.
No, there is no evidence of physical addiction from sugar in humans, that is my stance. Show me a peer reviewed source that shows otherwise and we can talk.
You can go Google "Aliens run the government" and find all kinds of sources on that, so no thank you. If you have any peer reviewed studies that counter my argument then feel free to post them.
So you unequivocally claim there is no possibility for any human to be psychologically addicted to sugar.
Pretty certain of you to know this for a fact, for everyone throughout all of the human population.
Amazing
nope, I said no peer reviewed studies show a connection to physical addiction.
I never once mentioned anything about psychological, that is something that you just keep adding to move the goalposts.
I am saying that it may be possible to be psychologically addicted to sugar, and you are quoting my posts.
Why quote me if you are not acknowledging what I am saying? Doesn't make much sense to me.
I am not trying to move any "goalposts", I am trying to be open minded and maybe acknowledge other people's very real concerns about their issues with sugar.
Some people have difficulty controlling their impulses with hyper-palatable foods, many of which contain sugar. Rather than confronting that fact, it's easier to call it an "addiction" because that makes it something they can't control and aren't responsible for.
I like donuts. Especially cream or jelly filled ones. I could easily sit down with a half dozen of them and polish them off in a few minutes. But I realize that doing so isn't a good idea, so I don't. Instead I occasionally enjoy them in moderation. Or if I were to make the conscious decision to gorge on those lovely, delicious half dozen donuts, I'd take full responsibility for it rather than sobbing over my "addiction" and absolving myself of blame. It's not the evil, evil donut makers' fault, or "Big Sugar's" fault - it's 100% mine because I chose to eat those donuts.
My wife claims to be a "carb addict". She has absolutely zero impulse control if there are sweets in the house. I mean NONE. No ability whatsoever to moderate. If it's there, she'll eat it, every last bite of it. Yet when she doesn't have those kind of foods readily available to her, she has no problems with cravings and won't go out of her way to obtain them. In fact, she consciously makes the effort to keep them out of the house and away from her. We've been together for 28 years and I have never once seen her go through any kind of withdrawal symptoms as a result of her "addiction". She just has no willpower and needs to keep those foods completely away from her and she's perfectly fine. But like many people, she doesn't understand the difference between impulse control and "addiction" and as this thread perfectly demonstrates, it's futile to discuss it with such people.8 -
For me, going on a 2 week strict low carb diet (Atkins Induction style) kicks the cravings, 100%. It's a miserable first week, second you start to feel amazing. Good luck, you've got this. Don't listen to people picking apart whether it's an addiction or not- that's not the point- the point is to find what works for you.2
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TheRambler wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »
Lustig. Lol, yeah he's kinda of an extremist. When labeling sugar as a "toxic" or "poisonous" to the system, and then having people believe it means he's a good salesman. His book sales are off the charts.TheRambler wrote: »Also, here's an article with research on sugar from what some believe to be an expert doctor. https://www.rt.com/news/319954-sugar-dangerous-children-study/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm a firm believer that it's important to read/listen to both points of view. I'm pretty sure that it's obvious that sugar isn't toxic and won't kill you if eaten in moderation. I think it's also obvious that sugar (as with most things) is very dangerous to your health if overdone. And it's VERY easy to over-do sugar.
If you have a glass of juice and a yogurt with "fruit" in it for breakfast, you're already near 20 tbsps. That's when you wake up. A day of that with soda/smoothies and normal eating can/will get you sick.
Obviously sugar is not bad for you. It's in fruit. I REALLY believe our kids need to be educated on what to look for when eating. How many people are fooled daily with smoothies/yogurt/juice? It's deceiving and dangerous.
I'm not even talking about weight, just overall health.
I totally disagree that people are "fooled" by these things. If they are interested (most people are not), it's incredibly easy to find out.
I'd personally never start the day with juice and a flavored yogurt because I wouldn't find that filling, but if someone does it can be part of a balanced diet. (I do think it's best to eat fruit whole vs. only the juice, but a moderate amount of juice if you enjoy it can be fine.)TheRambler wrote: »The problem with sugar is, it's so hidden. A lot of times people think they are being healthy, but they're not.
It's not hidden. People like this argument because it pretends like people had NO IDEA they were eating unhealthfully, but it's not consistent with the actual stats. If you look at where the sugar in the US diet comes from, something like 35% is from sugar sweetened drinks, another big chunk is from pastries and other sweet baked goods, candy, ice cream, etc. Then a chunk from sugary cereals (and the sugar is cereals is NOT hidden, everyone knows about it). Not that much from yogurt overall (although that's obviously not hidden either), and not much (as a percentage) from savory foods that most mean when they talk about so-called hidden sugar.
I don't think this has anything to do with OP's issue, though.
Do you not think that the average kid, before school, had juice and cereal? And more juice at school?
Do you have a kid in school? I do, and I know a bunch of others and the answer to your question is a resounding NO.4 -
3rdof7sisters wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »Addictive behavior, is it hard wired into us, or something we choose?
People choose to smoke, drink, use illegal drugs, gambling, or whatever the addiction may be, it certainly is not a necessity of life, none the less, truly addictive to some, while others can try something once, or never, and not feel any need to ever try it again.
You can not live without eating. It seems to me that, at least technically, we are all addicted to food. If you do not eat, you can put your health seriously at risk and will die if you don't eat at all. It could be psychological addiction to certain types of foods, ie sweet, salty, but does that make it less real? So much is really unknown, even by so called experts. We know ourselves best. What will trigger our reactions and how we can, or can not, handle it.
if you don't breath you will die too, are we also addicted to breathing..
doing something to sustain bodily function and life does not equal addiction ...
It isn't exactly a bodily function, nor is it involuntary, as breathing is. I also happen to believe that it is not an addiction (craving and overindulging in sugary foods). I have lived long enough to know that I can speak for no one else besides myself. There is no possible way to know for a fact that people that believe that they are addicted to sugar, or anything for that matter, aren't. There are experts who disagree on both sides of the issue. All I am saying is that I believe there are people who are convinced that they are addicted to sugar. What makes you so sure that they are not? Where is your expertise on this? How can you possibly know for a fact?
Show me a study of humans showing linkage to sugar and physical addiction and we can talk.
So, you are of the opinion that "I don't believe it, so it isn't".
And you are saying "physical" addiction. I am not so sure that "psychological" addiction is not possible for some people, and that it can be very real.
Google "is sugar addictive" are you open minded enough to consider the possibility that for some, it may be?
I am not saying that it is or isn't addictive. I am not addicted to sugar, but I do love sweets and have learned to moderate my intake. I am however open to the possibility that for some people, they are convinced that they are addicted.
No, there is no evidence of physical addiction from sugar in humans, that is my stance. Show me a peer reviewed source that shows otherwise and we can talk.
You can go Google "Aliens run the government" and find all kinds of sources on that, so no thank you. If you have any peer reviewed studies that counter my argument then feel free to post them.
So you unequivocally claim there is no possibility for any human to be psychologically addicted to sugar.
Pretty certain of you to know this for a fact, for everyone throughout all of the human population.
Amazing
nope, I said no peer reviewed studies show a connection to physical addiction.
I never once mentioned anything about psychological, that is something that you just keep adding to move the goalposts.
I am saying that it may be possible to be psychologically addicted to sugar, and you are quoting my posts.
Why quote me if you are not acknowledging what I am saying? Doesn't make much sense to me.
I am not trying to move any "goalposts", I am trying to be open minded and maybe acknowledge other people's very real concerns about their issues with sugar.
Some people have difficulty controlling their impulses with hyper-palatable foods, many of which contain sugar. Rather than confronting that fact, it's easier to call it an "addiction" because that makes it something they can't control and aren't responsible for.
I like donuts. Especially cream or jelly filled ones. I could easily sit down with a half dozen of them and polish them off in a few minutes. But I realize that doing so isn't a good idea, so I don't. Instead I occasionally enjoy them in moderation. Or if I were to make the conscious decision to gorge on those lovely, delicious half dozen donuts, I'd take full responsibility for it rather than sobbing over my "addiction" and absolving myself of blame. It's not the evil, evil donut makers' fault, or "Big Sugar's" fault - it's 100% mine because I chose to eat those donuts.
My wife claims to be a "carb addict". She has absolutely zero impulse control if there are sweets in the house. I mean NONE. No ability whatsoever to moderate. If it's there, she'll eat it, every last bite of it. Yet when she doesn't have those kind of foods readily available to her, she has no problems with cravings and won't go out of her way to obtain them. In fact, she consciously makes the effort to keep them out of the house and away from her. We've been together for 28 years and I have never once seen her go through any kind of withdrawal symptoms as a result of her "addiction". She just has no willpower and needs to keep those foods completely away from her and she's perfectly fine. But like many people, she doesn't understand the difference between impulse control and "addiction" and as this thread perfectly demonstrates, it's futile to discuss it with such people.
Then it is just a case of using the incorrect term addiction vs: impulse control & futile to discuss with someone that has the condition because they do not discern the difference between the very pronounced difference between the two. Guilty as charged
Thanks anvilhead for clearly explaining.
So not an addiction, an unmanageable impulse control issue, perceived by the person as an addiction. Got it!
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TheRambler wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »
Lustig. Lol, yeah he's kinda of an extremist. When labeling sugar as a "toxic" or "poisonous" to the system, and then having people believe it means he's a good salesman. His book sales are off the charts.TheRambler wrote: »Also, here's an article with research on sugar from what some believe to be an expert doctor. https://www.rt.com/news/319954-sugar-dangerous-children-study/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm a firm believer that it's important to read/listen to both points of view. I'm pretty sure that it's obvious that sugar isn't toxic and won't kill you if eaten in moderation. I think it's also obvious that sugar (as with most things) is very dangerous to your health if overdone. And it's VERY easy to over-do sugar.
If you have a glass of juice and a yogurt with "fruit" in it for breakfast, you're already near 20 tbsps. That's when you wake up. A day of that with soda/smoothies and normal eating can/will get you sick.
Obviously sugar is not bad for you. It's in fruit. I REALLY believe our kids need to be educated on what to look for when eating. How many people are fooled daily with smoothies/yogurt/juice? It's deceiving and dangerous.
I'm not even talking about weight, just overall health.
I totally disagree that people are "fooled" by these things. If they are interested (most people are not), it's incredibly easy to find out.
I'd personally never start the day with juice and a flavored yogurt because I wouldn't find that filling, but if someone does it can be part of a balanced diet. (I do think it's best to eat fruit whole vs. only the juice, but a moderate amount of juice if you enjoy it can be fine.)TheRambler wrote: »The problem with sugar is, it's so hidden. A lot of times people think they are being healthy, but they're not.
It's not hidden. People like this argument because it pretends like people had NO IDEA they were eating unhealthfully, but it's not consistent with the actual stats. If you look at where the sugar in the US diet comes from, something like 35% is from sugar sweetened drinks, another big chunk is from pastries and other sweet baked goods, candy, ice cream, etc. Then a chunk from sugary cereals (and the sugar is cereals is NOT hidden, everyone knows about it). Not that much from yogurt overall (although that's obviously not hidden either), and not much (as a percentage) from savory foods that most mean when they talk about so-called hidden sugar.
I don't think this has anything to do with OP's issue, though.
Do you not think that the average kid, before school, had juice and cereal? And more juice at school?
Yeah, when I was growing up it was common to have juice and cereal. The sugar wasn't hidden, and I don't think that's a problem unless the child is hungry after and eating too much, of course -- which didn't seem to be the case despite this being a common breakfast back in the '70s and '80s.
I guess kids have juice at school now? We didn't have juice at school. Milk at lunch, however.1 -
prattiger65 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »
Lustig. Lol, yeah he's kinda of an extremist. When labeling sugar as a "toxic" or "poisonous" to the system, and then having people believe it means he's a good salesman. His book sales are off the charts.TheRambler wrote: »Also, here's an article with research on sugar from what some believe to be an expert doctor. https://www.rt.com/news/319954-sugar-dangerous-children-study/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm a firm believer that it's important to read/listen to both points of view. I'm pretty sure that it's obvious that sugar isn't toxic and won't kill you if eaten in moderation. I think it's also obvious that sugar (as with most things) is very dangerous to your health if overdone. And it's VERY easy to over-do sugar.
If you have a glass of juice and a yogurt with "fruit" in it for breakfast, you're already near 20 tbsps. That's when you wake up. A day of that with soda/smoothies and normal eating can/will get you sick.
Obviously sugar is not bad for you. It's in fruit. I REALLY believe our kids need to be educated on what to look for when eating. How many people are fooled daily with smoothies/yogurt/juice? It's deceiving and dangerous.
I'm not even talking about weight, just overall health.
I totally disagree that people are "fooled" by these things. If they are interested (most people are not), it's incredibly easy to find out.
I'd personally never start the day with juice and a flavored yogurt because I wouldn't find that filling, but if someone does it can be part of a balanced diet. (I do think it's best to eat fruit whole vs. only the juice, but a moderate amount of juice if you enjoy it can be fine.)TheRambler wrote: »The problem with sugar is, it's so hidden. A lot of times people think they are being healthy, but they're not.
It's not hidden. People like this argument because it pretends like people had NO IDEA they were eating unhealthfully, but it's not consistent with the actual stats. If you look at where the sugar in the US diet comes from, something like 35% is from sugar sweetened drinks, another big chunk is from pastries and other sweet baked goods, candy, ice cream, etc. Then a chunk from sugary cereals (and the sugar is cereals is NOT hidden, everyone knows about it). Not that much from yogurt overall (although that's obviously not hidden either), and not much (as a percentage) from savory foods that most mean when they talk about so-called hidden sugar.
I don't think this has anything to do with OP's issue, though.
Do you not think that the average kid, before school, had juice and cereal? And more juice at school?
Do you have a kid in school? I do, and I know a bunch of others and the answer to your question is a resounding NO.
Yep, my kids usually eat leftovers for breakfast and I don't buy juice because it's overpriced calorie water
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RedSquadronLeader wrote: »I always laugh a bit when someone says "you don't eat sugar out of the bag with a spoon do you?" because I totally have.
I suspect this is quite rare.
I also suspect this is not what OP is talking about.
Rather than speculating, it would be nice to know what the OP is talking about. People tend to assume that whatever their deal was applies to the OP too, and I think issues with sugary foods (and other foods) that feel out of control usually are quite fact specific and varied.0 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »Jerome's rules for battling sugar:
1. Abandon hope. You cannot eliminate all sugar from your food.
2. Create a plan to minimize the consumption of sugar with your food.
3. In order of importance, accept with a zen tranquility that vegetables do have sugar and you should consume abundant vegetables each day. Next, accept with zen tranquility that fruits do have sugar and a few fruits should be consumed each day. From here, it gets more confusing as less zen tranquility and more spartan warrior mentality is needed to recognize, discern, use, and reject sugar in its many diverse appearances in our food supply. For starters, get a supply of sugar substitute. There are several which are really and truly harmless which can be used in place of sugar to sweeten foods. After that, identify your candied weaknesses and make war on them. Purge them from your abode.
I think focusing on "sugar" rather than specific foods is the issue. Vegetables are great and nutrient dense, and so is fruit. That they contain sugar doesn't change that. Ice cream is a sometimes (or moderate serving size) kind of food, since it's high cal and doesn't have a lot of nutrients (although it's not void of them). That's not really, IMO, because it has sugar.
I have not actually ever used a sugar substitute, although I consume diet soda sometimes and I've had Quest bars. If I want a little sugar in something like a rhubarb sauce, I see no reason to use a substitute, it's few calories. For baking, it's more about controlling how often I bake (or doing it with others to share), I wouldn't use a sugar substitute, since if I'm baking it's going to be amazing, I'd rather sacrifice amount than taste.
I don't really add sugar to anything else -- I only tend to have it in the house when I've been baking. I'm always surprised that people use just plain sugar. (I'm more apt to have honey on hand although I don't think it's better or worse nutritionally. You generally don't use enough that it matters.)
So again I think we need the specifics -- is OP's issue something like adding sugar to tea or coffee?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »RedSquadronLeader wrote: »I always laugh a bit when someone says "you don't eat sugar out of the bag with a spoon do you?" because I totally have.
I suspect this is quite rare.
I also suspect this is not what OP is talking about.
Rather than speculating, it would be nice to know what the OP is talking about. People tend to assume that whatever their deal was applies to the OP too, and I think issues with sugary foods (and other foods) that feel out of control usually are quite fact specific and varied.
Sure, I agree. But it does happen, and that was my point. For those of us who do deal with that, reading this sort of thing constantly is demoralizing and frustrating. I did note to the OP that their approach and finding their "moderation tolerance" should definitely be individualized - and I also doubt they eat sugar by the spoonful, but maybe this will be helpful to anyone else reading it who might.
I don't presume that my issues apply to everyone.3 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »First of all, anyone saying it's not a battle or addiction has never had an addiction to it. It is one of the most addictive things out there and is in damned near everything! I know it can be rough. I've been there for 36 years. One thing i have learned is 80/20. Don't beat yourself up on cheat days. I try to stay away from sugar and unhealthy foods while i'm at work and have to pack food to bring in, then saturday is a cheat day. I try to be stubborn enough to only have it that day. You can also try cutting it out slowly. Try getting natural sugars from fruit and honey. I think that really helps me. And i am not overly religious AT ALL and it may sound crazy, but i seriously pray about it. I ask that he help me with my food addiction make me strong when i want to eat bad and give me the energy and motivation to work out. It really can help.
[edited by MFP moderator]
if it is so addictive and bad then why is it OK to have it 20% of the time. IF a heroin addict told you that they went through rehab and were clean but still did heroin 20% of the time you would look at them like they sprung two heads.
I never understood this dichotomy that on the one hand sugar is bad and addictive, but on the other hand it is still OK sometimes...
I said 80/20 rule for eating. That means 80% healthy and pretty clean. I never once said the 20% should be straight up sugar did I? And so what a person that wants to not eat sugar can never celebrate with a friend and eat birthday cake ever again? Can never have christmas cookies or easter candy EVER AGAIN?! My point is it's addictive and the more you cut it out the less you want it.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »
Lustig. Lol, yeah he's kinda of an extremist. When labeling sugar as a "toxic" or "poisonous" to the system, and then having people believe it means he's a good salesman. His book sales are off the charts.TheRambler wrote: »Also, here's an article with research on sugar from what some believe to be an expert doctor. https://www.rt.com/news/319954-sugar-dangerous-children-study/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm a firm believer that it's important to read/listen to both points of view. I'm pretty sure that it's obvious that sugar isn't toxic and won't kill you if eaten in moderation. I think it's also obvious that sugar (as with most things) is very dangerous to your health if overdone. And it's VERY easy to over-do sugar.
If you have a glass of juice and a yogurt with "fruit" in it for breakfast, you're already near 20 tbsps. That's when you wake up. A day of that with soda/smoothies and normal eating can/will get you sick.
Obviously sugar is not bad for you. It's in fruit. I REALLY believe our kids need to be educated on what to look for when eating. How many people are fooled daily with smoothies/yogurt/juice? It's deceiving and dangerous.
I'm not even talking about weight, just overall health.
I totally disagree that people are "fooled" by these things. If they are interested (most people are not), it's incredibly easy to find out.
I'd personally never start the day with juice and a flavored yogurt because I wouldn't find that filling, but if someone does it can be part of a balanced diet. (I do think it's best to eat fruit whole vs. only the juice, but a moderate amount of juice if you enjoy it can be fine.)TheRambler wrote: »The problem with sugar is, it's so hidden. A lot of times people think they are being healthy, but they're not.
It's not hidden. People like this argument because it pretends like people had NO IDEA they were eating unhealthfully, but it's not consistent with the actual stats. If you look at where the sugar in the US diet comes from, something like 35% is from sugar sweetened drinks, another big chunk is from pastries and other sweet baked goods, candy, ice cream, etc. Then a chunk from sugary cereals (and the sugar is cereals is NOT hidden, everyone knows about it). Not that much from yogurt overall (although that's obviously not hidden either), and not much (as a percentage) from savory foods that most mean when they talk about so-called hidden sugar.
I don't think this has anything to do with OP's issue, though.
It's not hidden? It's listed on packages as high fructose corn syrup. Or HFCS. How does that say sugar? There are also way more other names it's under. They do hide it on purpose so people will feed it to their children and not bat an eye at eating it!2 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »
Lustig. Lol, yeah he's kinda of an extremist. When labeling sugar as a "toxic" or "poisonous" to the system, and then having people believe it means he's a good salesman. His book sales are off the charts.TheRambler wrote: »Also, here's an article with research on sugar from what some believe to be an expert doctor. https://www.rt.com/news/319954-sugar-dangerous-children-study/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm a firm believer that it's important to read/listen to both points of view. I'm pretty sure that it's obvious that sugar isn't toxic and won't kill you if eaten in moderation. I think it's also obvious that sugar (as with most things) is very dangerous to your health if overdone. And it's VERY easy to over-do sugar.
If you have a glass of juice and a yogurt with "fruit" in it for breakfast, you're already near 20 tbsps. That's when you wake up. A day of that with soda/smoothies and normal eating can/will get you sick.
Obviously sugar is not bad for you. It's in fruit. I REALLY believe our kids need to be educated on what to look for when eating. How many people are fooled daily with smoothies/yogurt/juice? It's deceiving and dangerous.
I'm not even talking about weight, just overall health.
I totally disagree that people are "fooled" by these things. If they are interested (most people are not), it's incredibly easy to find out.
I'd personally never start the day with juice and a flavored yogurt because I wouldn't find that filling, but if someone does it can be part of a balanced diet. (I do think it's best to eat fruit whole vs. only the juice, but a moderate amount of juice if you enjoy it can be fine.)TheRambler wrote: »The problem with sugar is, it's so hidden. A lot of times people think they are being healthy, but they're not.
It's not hidden. People like this argument because it pretends like people had NO IDEA they were eating unhealthfully, but it's not consistent with the actual stats. If you look at where the sugar in the US diet comes from, something like 35% is from sugar sweetened drinks, another big chunk is from pastries and other sweet baked goods, candy, ice cream, etc. Then a chunk from sugary cereals (and the sugar is cereals is NOT hidden, everyone knows about it). Not that much from yogurt overall (although that's obviously not hidden either), and not much (as a percentage) from savory foods that most mean when they talk about so-called hidden sugar.
I don't think this has anything to do with OP's issue, though.
It's not hidden? It's listed on packages as high fructose corn syrup. Or HFCS. How does that say sugar? There are also way more other names it's under. They do hide it on purpose so people will feed it to their children and not bat an eye at eating it!
Because it says right on the nutrition panel how much sugar is in the item...7 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »danigirl1011 wrote: »First of all, anyone saying it's not a battle or addiction has never had an addiction to it. It is one of the most addictive things out there and is in damned near everything! I know it can be rough. I've been there for 36 years. One thing i have learned is 80/20. Don't beat yourself up on cheat days. I try to stay away from sugar and unhealthy foods while i'm at work and have to pack food to bring in, then saturday is a cheat day. I try to be stubborn enough to only have it that day. You can also try cutting it out slowly. Try getting natural sugars from fruit and honey. I think that really helps me. And i am not overly religious AT ALL and it may sound crazy, but i seriously pray about it. I ask that he help me with my food addiction make me strong when i want to eat bad and give me the energy and motivation to work out. It really can help.
[edited by MFP moderator]
if it is so addictive and bad then why is it OK to have it 20% of the time. IF a heroin addict told you that they went through rehab and were clean but still did heroin 20% of the time you would look at them like they sprung two heads.
I never understood this dichotomy that on the one hand sugar is bad and addictive, but on the other hand it is still OK sometimes...
I love how you like to take EVERYTHING i say and literally pick it apart to bits. I said 80/20 rule for eating. That means 80% healthy and pretty clean. I never once said the 20% should be straight up sugar now did i?? And so what a person that wants to not eat sugar can never celebrate with a friend and eat birthday cake ever again? Can never have christmas cookies or easter candy EVER AGAIN?! Geez dude get off the literal train. My point is it's addictive and the more you cut it out the less you want it. You have no frigging clue (OBVIOUSLY) what it's like to be addicted to it, yet you still have such a strong opinion about it. Coming from someone that has had that problem it does exist! Maybe sit back and listen to others sometimes instead of spouting off at the mouth from one thing i said.
But that's his point-you can't turn on and off a true addiction. If you can continue to eat these types of things in moderation (special events), and then the next day quit eating them until the next special event, then how can you claim they're a real addiction? I don't think you understand what the term addiction actually means (I'm not trying to be snarky here, truly).
5 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »
Lustig. Lol, yeah he's kinda of an extremist. When labeling sugar as a "toxic" or "poisonous" to the system, and then having people believe it means he's a good salesman. His book sales are off the charts.TheRambler wrote: »Also, here's an article with research on sugar from what some believe to be an expert doctor. https://www.rt.com/news/319954-sugar-dangerous-children-study/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm a firm believer that it's important to read/listen to both points of view. I'm pretty sure that it's obvious that sugar isn't toxic and won't kill you if eaten in moderation. I think it's also obvious that sugar (as with most things) is very dangerous to your health if overdone. And it's VERY easy to over-do sugar.
If you have a glass of juice and a yogurt with "fruit" in it for breakfast, you're already near 20 tbsps. That's when you wake up. A day of that with soda/smoothies and normal eating can/will get you sick.
Obviously sugar is not bad for you. It's in fruit. I REALLY believe our kids need to be educated on what to look for when eating. How many people are fooled daily with smoothies/yogurt/juice? It's deceiving and dangerous.
I'm not even talking about weight, just overall health.
I totally disagree that people are "fooled" by these things. If they are interested (most people are not), it's incredibly easy to find out.
I'd personally never start the day with juice and a flavored yogurt because I wouldn't find that filling, but if someone does it can be part of a balanced diet. (I do think it's best to eat fruit whole vs. only the juice, but a moderate amount of juice if you enjoy it can be fine.)TheRambler wrote: »The problem with sugar is, it's so hidden. A lot of times people think they are being healthy, but they're not.
It's not hidden. People like this argument because it pretends like people had NO IDEA they were eating unhealthfully, but it's not consistent with the actual stats. If you look at where the sugar in the US diet comes from, something like 35% is from sugar sweetened drinks, another big chunk is from pastries and other sweet baked goods, candy, ice cream, etc. Then a chunk from sugary cereals (and the sugar is cereals is NOT hidden, everyone knows about it). Not that much from yogurt overall (although that's obviously not hidden either), and not much (as a percentage) from savory foods that most mean when they talk about so-called hidden sugar.
I don't think this has anything to do with OP's issue, though.
It's not hidden? It's listed on packages as high fructose corn syrup. Or HFCS. How does that say sugar? There are also way more other names it's under. They do hide it on purpose so people will feed it to their children and not bat an eye at eating it!
Well fructose and syrup are pretty huge clues!
You do realise there are many types of sugar? You aren't advocating less accurate food labels are you?
By the way.... why wouldn't you feed your children foods that contain some sugar? (As part of an overall healthy and nutritious diet of course.....)4 -
crazyycatlady1 wrote: »danigirl1011 wrote: »danigirl1011 wrote: »First of all, anyone saying it's not a battle or addiction has never had an addiction to it. It is one of the most addictive things out there and is in damned near everything! I know it can be rough. I've been there for 36 years. One thing i have learned is 80/20. Don't beat yourself up on cheat days. I try to stay away from sugar and unhealthy foods while i'm at work and have to pack food to bring in, then saturday is a cheat day. I try to be stubborn enough to only have it that day. You can also try cutting it out slowly. Try getting natural sugars from fruit and honey. I think that really helps me. And i am not overly religious AT ALL and it may sound crazy, but i seriously pray about it. I ask that he help me with my food addiction make me strong when i want to eat bad and give me the energy and motivation to work out. It really can help.
[edited by MFP moderator]
if it is so addictive and bad then why is it OK to have it 20% of the time. IF a heroin addict told you that they went through rehab and were clean but still did heroin 20% of the time you would look at them like they sprung two heads.
I never understood this dichotomy that on the one hand sugar is bad and addictive, but on the other hand it is still OK sometimes...
I love how you like to take EVERYTHING i say and literally pick it apart to bits. I said 80/20 rule for eating. That means 80% healthy and pretty clean. I never once said the 20% should be straight up sugar now did i?? And so what a person that wants to not eat sugar can never celebrate with a friend and eat birthday cake ever again? Can never have christmas cookies or easter candy EVER AGAIN?! Geez dude get off the literal train. My point is it's addictive and the more you cut it out the less you want it. You have no frigging clue (OBVIOUSLY) what it's like to be addicted to it, yet you still have such a strong opinion about it. Coming from someone that has had that problem it does exist! Maybe sit back and listen to others sometimes instead of spouting off at the mouth from one thing i said.
But that's his point-you can't turn on and off a true addiction. If you can continue to eat these types of things in moderation (special events), then how can you claim they're a real addiction? I don't think you understand what the term addiction actually means (I'm not trying to be snarky here, truly).
I get your point. And again, unless you have ever been truly addicted to it i dont think you will ever get it. My dad tries to have these talks with my stepmom and i all the time. He will never get it. Because he hasn't been there. I have a drug addicted cousin. I say just dont buy drugs. It's a choice! But, do you think in his drug addiction it's as easy as "just don't buy the drugs"? Do you think for a food addicted person it's as easy as "just don't buy the junk"? Or "just don't think about food"? And just because i said it's ok to eat it once in awhile doesn't mean you fall off the wagon and go on a full binge. But, the desire is ALWAYS there for me. But, i bring my food with me every day to work. And if i leave work to get food somewhere i lose my parking spot. So, it's incentive to plan ahead and only eat what i bring. Last time i was on mfp i lost over 60 pounds. I ate a full plate (4 entrees) of chinese food every saturday and followed it by a pint of ice cream. But, saturday was the only day i was allowed to do that. And i made it work, because i knew in my mind saturday was coming. But, junk food is everywhere. And it's cheap. And it's easy. And if you don't feel it's an addiction you have been lucky. Some people cannot think about anything else but when they are going to eat next. To me, sounds just like a druggy and getting their next fix? If you looked at it like a recovering drug addict maybe it would help you see it. Not every single drug addicted person remains drug addicted right? There are people who get clean. But, it can be a slippery slope. There are plenty of people with food addictions who can slip and not get back on track the next day or the next week. That happened to me the last 4 years. I was on one big binge. But, just like the logic of a drug addicted person after they get clean. You have to want it and you have to work for it. Same for food people. It's a daily struggle for them too.
http://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/experts-is-sugar-addictive-drug
0 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »
Lustig. Lol, yeah he's kinda of an extremist. When labeling sugar as a "toxic" or "poisonous" to the system, and then having people believe it means he's a good salesman. His book sales are off the charts.TheRambler wrote: »Also, here's an article with research on sugar from what some believe to be an expert doctor. https://www.rt.com/news/319954-sugar-dangerous-children-study/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm a firm believer that it's important to read/listen to both points of view. I'm pretty sure that it's obvious that sugar isn't toxic and won't kill you if eaten in moderation. I think it's also obvious that sugar (as with most things) is very dangerous to your health if overdone. And it's VERY easy to over-do sugar.
If you have a glass of juice and a yogurt with "fruit" in it for breakfast, you're already near 20 tbsps. That's when you wake up. A day of that with soda/smoothies and normal eating can/will get you sick.
Obviously sugar is not bad for you. It's in fruit. I REALLY believe our kids need to be educated on what to look for when eating. How many people are fooled daily with smoothies/yogurt/juice? It's deceiving and dangerous.
I'm not even talking about weight, just overall health.
I totally disagree that people are "fooled" by these things. If they are interested (most people are not), it's incredibly easy to find out.
I'd personally never start the day with juice and a flavored yogurt because I wouldn't find that filling, but if someone does it can be part of a balanced diet. (I do think it's best to eat fruit whole vs. only the juice, but a moderate amount of juice if you enjoy it can be fine.)TheRambler wrote: »The problem with sugar is, it's so hidden. A lot of times people think they are being healthy, but they're not.
It's not hidden. People like this argument because it pretends like people had NO IDEA they were eating unhealthfully, but it's not consistent with the actual stats. If you look at where the sugar in the US diet comes from, something like 35% is from sugar sweetened drinks, another big chunk is from pastries and other sweet baked goods, candy, ice cream, etc. Then a chunk from sugary cereals (and the sugar is cereals is NOT hidden, everyone knows about it). Not that much from yogurt overall (although that's obviously not hidden either), and not much (as a percentage) from savory foods that most mean when they talk about so-called hidden sugar.
I don't think this has anything to do with OP's issue, though.
It's not hidden? It's listed on packages as high fructose corn syrup. Or HFCS. How does that say sugar? There are also way more other names it's under. They do hide it on purpose so people will feed it to their children and not bat an eye at eating it!
Well fructose and syrup are pretty huge clues!
You do realise there are many types of sugar? You aren't advocating less accurate food labels are you?
By the way.... why wouldn't you feed your children foods that contain some sugar? (As part of an overall healthy and nutritious diet of course.....)
Yes, i agree. But, with the food industry becoming more and more sneaky the average person may not have a clue. Like the fact that there are so many chemicals in cereal for example. And i wouldnt want to feed them sugary foods, because most of it comes from gmo corn or gmo beets. Sugar also feeds cancer. If i do feed them treats its after a hard day of work or a lot of activity or it's something homemade that i used honey in or pure maple syrup. I'm not saying ever. Not saying never ever. But, on a regular basis every single day of the week it's highly over abused because people like cheap and easy. And i would like to know anything about sugar that is "healthy and nutritious" give me a break0 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »danigirl1011 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »
Lustig. Lol, yeah he's kinda of an extremist. When labeling sugar as a "toxic" or "poisonous" to the system, and then having people believe it means he's a good salesman. His book sales are off the charts.TheRambler wrote: »Also, here's an article with research on sugar from what some believe to be an expert doctor. https://www.rt.com/news/319954-sugar-dangerous-children-study/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm a firm believer that it's important to read/listen to both points of view. I'm pretty sure that it's obvious that sugar isn't toxic and won't kill you if eaten in moderation. I think it's also obvious that sugar (as with most things) is very dangerous to your health if overdone. And it's VERY easy to over-do sugar.
If you have a glass of juice and a yogurt with "fruit" in it for breakfast, you're already near 20 tbsps. That's when you wake up. A day of that with soda/smoothies and normal eating can/will get you sick.
Obviously sugar is not bad for you. It's in fruit. I REALLY believe our kids need to be educated on what to look for when eating. How many people are fooled daily with smoothies/yogurt/juice? It's deceiving and dangerous.
I'm not even talking about weight, just overall health.
I totally disagree that people are "fooled" by these things. If they are interested (most people are not), it's incredibly easy to find out.
I'd personally never start the day with juice and a flavored yogurt because I wouldn't find that filling, but if someone does it can be part of a balanced diet. (I do think it's best to eat fruit whole vs. only the juice, but a moderate amount of juice if you enjoy it can be fine.)TheRambler wrote: »The problem with sugar is, it's so hidden. A lot of times people think they are being healthy, but they're not.
It's not hidden. People like this argument because it pretends like people had NO IDEA they were eating unhealthfully, but it's not consistent with the actual stats. If you look at where the sugar in the US diet comes from, something like 35% is from sugar sweetened drinks, another big chunk is from pastries and other sweet baked goods, candy, ice cream, etc. Then a chunk from sugary cereals (and the sugar is cereals is NOT hidden, everyone knows about it). Not that much from yogurt overall (although that's obviously not hidden either), and not much (as a percentage) from savory foods that most mean when they talk about so-called hidden sugar.
I don't think this has anything to do with OP's issue, though.
It's not hidden? It's listed on packages as high fructose corn syrup. Or HFCS. How does that say sugar? There are also way more other names it's under. They do hide it on purpose so people will feed it to their children and not bat an eye at eating it!
Well fructose and syrup are pretty huge clues!
You do realise there are many types of sugar? You aren't advocating less accurate food labels are you?
By the way.... why wouldn't you feed your children foods that contain some sugar? (As part of an overall healthy and nutritious diet of course.....)
Yes, i agree. But, with the food industry becoming more and more sneaky the average person may not have a clue. Like the fact that there are so many chemicals in cereal for example. And i wouldnt want to feed them sugary foods, because most of it comes from gmo corn or gmo beets. Sugar also feeds cancer. If i do feed them treats its after a hard day of work or a lot of activity or it's something homemade that i used honey in or pure maple syrup. I'm not saying ever. Not saying never ever. But, on a regular basis every single day of the week it's highly over abused because people like cheap and easy. And i would like to know anything about sugar that is "healthy and nutritious" give me a break
Ahhh, this explains a lot. I'm out 8 -
danigirl1011 wrote: »danigirl1011 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »TheRambler wrote: »
Lustig. Lol, yeah he's kinda of an extremist. When labeling sugar as a "toxic" or "poisonous" to the system, and then having people believe it means he's a good salesman. His book sales are off the charts.TheRambler wrote: »Also, here's an article with research on sugar from what some believe to be an expert doctor. https://www.rt.com/news/319954-sugar-dangerous-children-study/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm a firm believer that it's important to read/listen to both points of view. I'm pretty sure that it's obvious that sugar isn't toxic and won't kill you if eaten in moderation. I think it's also obvious that sugar (as with most things) is very dangerous to your health if overdone. And it's VERY easy to over-do sugar.
If you have a glass of juice and a yogurt with "fruit" in it for breakfast, you're already near 20 tbsps. That's when you wake up. A day of that with soda/smoothies and normal eating can/will get you sick.
Obviously sugar is not bad for you. It's in fruit. I REALLY believe our kids need to be educated on what to look for when eating. How many people are fooled daily with smoothies/yogurt/juice? It's deceiving and dangerous.
I'm not even talking about weight, just overall health.
I totally disagree that people are "fooled" by these things. If they are interested (most people are not), it's incredibly easy to find out.
I'd personally never start the day with juice and a flavored yogurt because I wouldn't find that filling, but if someone does it can be part of a balanced diet. (I do think it's best to eat fruit whole vs. only the juice, but a moderate amount of juice if you enjoy it can be fine.)TheRambler wrote: »The problem with sugar is, it's so hidden. A lot of times people think they are being healthy, but they're not.
It's not hidden. People like this argument because it pretends like people had NO IDEA they were eating unhealthfully, but it's not consistent with the actual stats. If you look at where the sugar in the US diet comes from, something like 35% is from sugar sweetened drinks, another big chunk is from pastries and other sweet baked goods, candy, ice cream, etc. Then a chunk from sugary cereals (and the sugar is cereals is NOT hidden, everyone knows about it). Not that much from yogurt overall (although that's obviously not hidden either), and not much (as a percentage) from savory foods that most mean when they talk about so-called hidden sugar.
I don't think this has anything to do with OP's issue, though.
It's not hidden? It's listed on packages as high fructose corn syrup. Or HFCS. How does that say sugar? There are also way more other names it's under. They do hide it on purpose so people will feed it to their children and not bat an eye at eating it!
Well fructose and syrup are pretty huge clues!
You do realise there are many types of sugar? You aren't advocating less accurate food labels are you?
By the way.... why wouldn't you feed your children foods that contain some sugar? (As part of an overall healthy and nutritious diet of course.....)
Yes, i agree. But, with the food industry becoming more and more sneaky the average person may not have a clue. Like the fact that there are so many chemicals in cereal for example. And i wouldnt want to feed them sugary foods, because most of it comes from gmo corn or gmo beets. Sugar also feeds cancer. If i do feed them treats its after a hard day of work or a lot of activity or it's something homemade that i used honey in or pure maple syrup. I'm not saying ever. Not saying never ever. But, on a regular basis every single day of the week it's highly over abused because people like cheap and easy. And i would like to know anything about sugar that is "healthy and nutritious" give me a break
I have a bit more optimism that "the average person" is able to read and if unsure what an ingredient is then they have the wit to educate themselves.
"Sugar feeds cancer" is an appalling thing to say by the way. That's just silly fearmongering and also IMHO disrespectful to poor souls battling cancer in its many forms.
So you don't think sugar can be part of a healthy or nutritious food item let alone an overall diet?
Such as fruit, vegetables, grains, dairy - or even the almost 100% sugar you feed your children in the form of honey or maple syrup?
You seem to have a load of irrational fears.....
PS - You and I and everything around us is made of chemicals!
7 -
100% of people who consume chemicals will die.9
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