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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
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Well folks, the way things are going with the ACA, soon everybody will be paying more for insurance and deductibles with less care and access to get for the money or coverage.
Please don't get sick and make sure that your off springs are healthy and born without any pre-existing conditon
, and don't eat too much so you can save money to pay for health insurance. 8 -
crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Dd was hospitalized a couple weeks ago and so far we have a $7,000 hospital bill pending. That will probably be for the ER (which in the past has run us around $1,000), and then most likely her one night stay, (since the claim is pending it doesn't have the breakdown available yet for what services it's for).
I have nothing to add, but I'm not in the US so i'm curious. What if you didn't have the ability to pay the bill for the hospital? Or if you had no insurance? Surly a hospital would still give a critically ill person the same service? I mean, no parent would ever be told "we can save your child as long as you can pay X amount..."
right??
The hospital offers 0% interest payment plans, starting at a $20 a month payment. Also, if you qualify there's assistance programs as well.
Wow, at $20 a month and 0% interest, a $20K ER visit would only take some people with limited incomes the rest of their life to pay off. That's a lifetime of medical debt. Sounds fun...If you're young enough, you could be celebrating your 80 year anniversary of writing out that monthly check to the hospital.
Ugh...it would have taken 10 years to pay off my husband's over-priced tetanus shot and stitches at that rate! (He was accidentally cut by another employee at work and his boss took him to the ER. Urgent care wouldn't take the paperwork for some unknown reason. Work paid for it, thank goodness...)
I think this is probably why the number one reason for bankruptcy in the United States is medical debt. I mean even if you do have insurance, the costs are crazy high, and if there's an enormous deductible, is it true that you could be looking at paying upwards of $10K in medical bills out of pocket before the insurance even kicks in and starts paying? Anybody here with experience with high deductible insurance who can answer this? I'm curious.
I guess I look at it differently-$20 a month is eating out one time, a couple coffee runs, a small portion of a new outfit etc-but instead it's going towards paying for something much more important. Maybe because I'm so close to the incident yet, but I'll gladly pay for the services my dd received because I know what it did for her. When you have a neurosurgeon come into your triage room and tell you that your kid has a skull fracture, your whole world stops for a moment-paying for the professionals/equipment to help us get through that is well worth $20 a month payments, or eating out one less time a month (assuming we go the payment route, which we're still waiting to see the final bill before deciding).
Our plan is considered high deductible (it's a high deductible HSA plan)-it's $3,000 oop before any insurance kicks in, then it goes to 20/80 up to around $7,500, and then insurance takes over 100%. So annually we could have $7,500 oop for medical expenses, not including dental and vision, which is separate. We usually hit that every 2-3 years. Some years we do payment plans, some years we pay for all of it oop right away, just depends on what else is going on.2 -
crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »IMO, until the US healthcare system isn't a FOR PROFIT venture, people will end up spending their retirement income and savings on it. See how much it costs to get hospitalized or how much medication costs for people who need it. It's pretty astounding and outrageous.
We could pay for ALL AMERICANS healthcare, it's just that our government chooses to spend more of taxes towards the military might instead.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Dd was hospitalized a couple weeks ago and so far we have a $7,000 hospital bill pending. That will probably be for the ER (which in the past has run us around $1,000), and then most likely her one night stay, (since the claim is pending it doesn't have the breakdown available yet for what services it's for).
I have nothing to add, but I'm not in the US so i'm curious. What if you didn't have the ability to pay the bill for the hospital? Or if you had no insurance? Surly a hospital would still give a critically ill person the same service? I mean, no parent would ever be told "we can save your child as long as you can pay X amount..."
right??
The hospital offers 0% interest payment plans, starting at a $20 a month payment. Also, if you qualify there's assistance programs as well.
Not always available. This varies considerably by hospital. individual circumstances, etc.1 -
mistyjazz929 wrote: »richardgavel wrote: »The point isn't necessarily to encourage overweight people to lose weight, but to get them to shoulder most of their health costs for a result that (in most cases), is due to their own actions. Especially since weight related issues ranks high on health care costs.
The problem with that is that poorer people tend to eat more poorly. Not because they want to but it's much cheaper to buy processed food then to buy more healthy food. So charging the poor more because they are overweight doesn't solve anything. It makes matters worse.
What needs to happen is that our elected officials should not bow down to the Insurance or drug company pacs. It is amazing how in Canada the drugs are so much cheaper than they are here. That is what is raising the cost of health care here.
The price controls in Canada and the EU are part of the reason that drugs that cost so much more in the US--we are subsidizing the R&D for the rest of the world.6 -
I am overweight and I have not been to the doctor other than a yearly check up in years. My dad, who is fit and active, goes constantly because he's a mountain biker who has had serious accidents and now has back and neck problems. Who should pay a higher premium? I think it is a slippery slope.7
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crazyycatladyy1 wrote: »I think this is probably why the number one reason for bankruptcy in the United States is medical debt. I mean even if you do have insurance, the costs are crazy high, and if there's an enormous deductible, is it true that you could be looking at paying upwards of $10K in medical bills out of pocket before the insurance even kicks in and starts paying? Anybody here with experience with high deductible insurance who can answer this? I'm curious.
Our plan is considered high deductible (it's a high deductible HSA plan)-it's $3,000 oop before any insurance kicks in, then it goes to 20/80 up to around $7,500, and then insurance takes over 100%. So annually we could have $7,500 oop for medical expenses, not including dental and vision, which is separate. We usually hit that every 2-3 years. Some years we do payment plans, some years we pay for all of it oop right away, just depends on what else is going on.
Your deductible is less than half of what mine is - $6500 per person - $13,500 for the family. Most meds are covered with a $10 copay (even tho I have a scrip right now that both the docs and I are fighting the insurance company about - but that is a different thread). If we were to hit the max on our deductible, we would be living under a bridge someplace... sucks really - and ours is considered a 'good' policy.
So to answer the original question - yes, if something major were to happen, my family would have to pay $6500 per person (if multiple family members were involved) before we got anything from the insurance, and then 20% of the costs up to $13,000 (or another $2600) before the insurance took over full payment.1 -
And even if you do get a $20 a month or whatever else, what happens when you or someone in your family has another major medical incident. let's face it, it's rare a family will only have one major medical event in their lives.
It's adequate and affordable healthcare for the wealthy/higher income population. Which I can't help but feel is just morally wrong in a first world country.7 -
mistyjazz929 wrote: »richardgavel wrote: »The point isn't necessarily to encourage overweight people to lose weight, but to get them to shoulder most of their health costs for a result that (in most cases), is due to their own actions. Especially since weight related issues ranks high on health care costs.
The problem with that is that poorer people tend to eat more poorly. Not because they want to but it's much cheaper to buy processed food then to buy more healthy food. So charging the poor more because they are overweight doesn't solve anything. It makes matters worse.
What needs to happen is that our elected officials should not bow down to the Insurance or drug company pacs. It is amazing how in Canada the drugs are so much cheaper than they are here. That is what is raising the cost of health care here.
The price controls in Canada and the EU are part of the reason that drugs that cost so much more in the US--we are subsidizing the R&D for the rest of the world.
Do you have any links to this with researched stats. I'd be interested to see just how much state funded healthcare eats into pharmaceutical profit.0 -
I take full responsibility for having a Swiftian perspective on the moralizing about people's weight and desire to penalize them occurring repeatedly on this thread.
Strawman. When a group of people go out to a restaurant, and enjoy a meal, they have to pay for it. Presumably each of them chips in according to what they ordered. That's what we're talking about.
Emotionally charged words like "penalize" them have no place in this.
Are you aware that young men pay more for car insurance than young women, because they're a higher risk group?1 -
Think about the fact that a large percentage of overweight/obese are lower income. You can't compare this to buying cigarettes, because smoking is an additional purchase. Often folks only purchase cheap food. Cheap food is not filling, which lends itself to eating more of it, hence becoming overweight/obese. Adding that type of financial burden is not going to help overweight people. It's only going to further benefit those who are either naturally slim, or fit.1
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Think about the fact that a large percentage of overweight/obese are lower income. You can't compare this to buying cigarettes, because smoking is an additional purchase. Often folks only purchase cheap food. Cheap food is not filling, which lends itself to eating more of it, hence becoming overweight/obese. Adding that type of financial burden is not going to help overweight people. It's only going to further benefit those who are either naturally slim, or fit.
Less food costs less than more food.16 -
Rice, beans, split peas, and lentils are pretty cheap.11
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I think it would be more logical to do away with the private insurance industry, have national healthcare, and provide tax incentives for living well (healthy weight, non-smoking, etc)...and do so under the justification that this is done to promote the common welfare.12
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This is a touchy subject for me because I'm overweight. I'm as healthy as a horse with normal BP and no other health issues but my weight shouldn't require me to pay more for insurance but I can see it from both sides and understand the reasoning behind it if employers did require overweight people to pay more for coverage.
I think if it were a reality and I had to pay more, I'm not sure if it would motivate me to eat like a bird and drop 30 pounds overnight but it would motivate me to work harder than I already am to lose the extra weight.
Great question by the way. It's great to see what people think on this subject.
Oh and as a side note, I work for a large employer in my state and our insurance company just started an incentive program which gives us a break in the cost of our monthly premiums if we voluntarily take part in a program in which we would visit the insurance company's representative, allow them to "screen" us (take blood samples, BP, weight, etc.) and give us feedback on our health and how we can improve it. Call me paranoid but I WOULD NEVER participate in such a program because I value my privacy and don't want the insurance company to come along later and use my voluntarily provided information against me to charge me a higher premium. Just my opinion anyway.9 -
Nope, I don't. If we continue down this path, it will eventually lead to higher premiums for those who are genetically predisposed toward certain illnesses such as dementia, cancer, heart disease, which, despite all the yadda-yadda about everything being a result of obesity, may manifest itself or not. Regarding obesity being the mother of all that ails the world, I know many skinny folks with heart and kidney issues, diabetes, and cancer. I have lost 65 pounds for the upteenth time, so I understand obesity. One can argue about lifestyle choices, which I do agree to a degree; however, I know genetics play a large role in the way one's body processes food and stores fat. I run like a wildebeest and eat like a rabbit just to stay one pound into normal weight. I cannot eat my calories burned during exercise, or I'll gain weight. Should people like this be punished with higher premiums? I think not. Smokers (I am a former smoker), yes. That's always a choice.4
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So, in my thinking...yes, they would pay more. However, instead of framing it as a punishment you would rather provide rewards for the behaviors you wanted to encourage. Also, punishing obese/overweight with an economic consequence that makes it more likely that they would become uninsured would probably backfire.
Those people will eventually become very ill, arrive in an ER where they will not be turned away, and then everybody has to ultimately pay the cost for this medical care anyway through rising medical costs.
We all pay one way or the other. My personal preference would be to at least try to organize it correctly on a national level in a way that could seek to optimize health outcomes and fairness of paying.
I'm also afraid of the development of a future dystopian society along the lines of "Gattica" where there is no end to the level of scrutiny that could be applied to your genetics. I think in the movie that scrutiny was state-sponsored...but I could easily see how it would develop in the private insurance industry in a way not as likely to evolve in a democratic republic.7 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »If a smoker can be charged more, so should the overweight and obese.
Your logic is faulty. People CHOOSE to smoke. There are people who are obese that did not CHOOSE to be that way and battle every day to not be. Take your blinders off and stop assuming that all obese people are that way because of choice.5 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »Yes, obesity greatly increases the risk of developing a wide range of expensive diseases. It's fair that overweight/obese people pay more. Smokers pay more for the same reason. This is no different.
LMAO. Yes, it is actually VERY DIFFERENT. One is 100% a CHOICE. The other is not necessarily.3 -
CatchMom13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »If a smoker can be charged more, so should the overweight and obese.
Your logic is faulty. People CHOOSE to smoke. There are people who are obese that did not CHOOSE to be that way and battle every day to not be. Take your blinders off and stop assuming that all obese people are that way because of choice.
Unless you are a child, have Prader-Willi, or are profoundly retarded and not in charge of feeding yourself, being fat is always because of your choices.
Period.
Don't give me this "It's not my fault. It's not a choice." line. It is your choice and if you choose to get fat, you shouldn't be insulated from the consequences.18 -
KimbersNewLife wrote: »Yes and I am obese... there are so many illnesses and issues that stem directly from weight. Excess weight is actually listed as a cause on my medical record. I had heart problems when I had my son. My chart says cause of acute event: obesity as a result of high calorie intake... that is what is listed on my medical record as a fact and yes it is my fault and they are correct I was eating too many calories therefore I was over weight. It is frustrating to me that I caused my own major health event and I haven't fixed it yet. But that's another story. I do not know if a penalty would help people not do this to themselves but it's fair because it can offset some of the insurance costs for society as a whole. If this can be done in every case, when the cause of a medical problem is the direct result of dietary decisions unless the weight is caused by another underlying medical issue in which case that person's doctor should work with them to resolve it.... Since you asked ;-)
Excuse the run-on sentences... I am exhausted LOL
That's YOU. Not everyone. I am obese and I'm the healthiest fat girl I know. I come from a family of heart issues, diabetes, hypertension, etc. My numbers are never anywhere close to be a concern for my doctor. My issue is that I have arthritis - 2 kinds. I was actually doing great losing weight (even with PsA) until I developed degenerative osteoarthritis in my spine and then I got the point where I couldn't walk and the weight loss stopped. That's me though. That's MY situation. I can't believe that everyone is like me and you shouldn't believe that everyone is like you.
The fact of the matter is that everyone's situation is different and making people pay more for health insurance simply because some jack-wagon behind a desk thinks that ALL obese people are fat because they're lazy and eat too much is pure ignorance.5
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