Don't add eat exercise calories
Replies
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
unless you are a very small woman who runs her 3miles at a very slow pace what you are describing doesn't seem plausible to me either...
but that being said you found what works for you great...have at but don't assume everyone is like you and what you do is "right".
Not eating back exercise calories is not good advice unless you are so under estimating your intake that you gain when you do *coughs* then that would be the only reason not to.
Yeah, see there's no underestimating because I don't estimate. I use a scale, weigh in grams, USDA database check my entries.
I am not at all saying that everyone is like me and should do what I do. In fact, I'm saying the opposite. That people should not do as someone else does simply because that person has told them it's the One Right Way, which is what the "you must eat back calories" camp says. My take on it is you can if that works for you, but it's not mandatory.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
It might, it might not. No one is invincible. For purposes of discussion with strangers on forums here, especially those seeking advice, it is highly advisable to suggest the most health-conscious paths. For some of us we are concerned about our health 1, 5, and 30 years from now. It's a quality of life thing. I didn't follow the whole thread, so I'm not so sure why you've very combative about it. You seem to be claiming that other people's workouts don't qualify as intense enough, and suggesting that very low calories vs activity level has no long term consequence based on anecdotal evidence. So... shrug?5 -
Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
It might, it might not. No one is invincible. For purposes of discussion with strangers on forums here, especially those seeking advice, it is highly advisable to suggest the most health-conscious paths. For some of us we are concerned about our health 1, 5, and 30 years from now. It's a quality of life thing. I didn't follow the whole thread, so I'm not so sure why you've very combative about it. You seem to be claiming that other people's workouts don't qualify as intense enough, and suggesting that very low calories vs activity level has no long term consequence based on anecdotal evidence. So... shrug?
Oh, well, in that case I have a great quality of life and expect that it should continue along just fine in the future as long as I continue to eat well and exercise regularly.
As far as anecdotal evidence, this entire forum is full of it. Many other posters immediately turn "this is what works for me" into "this is what you should do."
On the other hand, I will only say that my experiences have differed significantly from much of that advice, and that people should figure out what works for them with respect to exercise calories and not feel an obligation to use anyone else's method (whether mine or another poster).2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
Am I confusing you for someone else, or is this exactly the opposite of your take in the "Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?" thread? A lot of people in there are saying "being obese isn't bad, I'm perfectly healthy" and others are explaining how risk and insurance, and present and future, work. I thought you were in the latter group. I could be mistaken, it's a very long thread.7 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
unless you are a very small woman who runs her 3miles at a very slow pace what you are describing doesn't seem plausible to me either...
but that being said you found what works for you great...have at but don't assume everyone is like you and what you do is "right".
Not eating back exercise calories is not good advice unless you are so under estimating your intake that you gain when you do *coughs* then that would be the only reason not to.
Yeah, see there's no underestimating because I don't estimate. I use a scale, weigh in grams, USDA database check my entries.
I am not at all saying that everyone is like me and should do what I do. In fact, I'm saying the opposite. That people should not do as someone else does simply because that person has told them it's the One Right Way, which is what the "you must eat back calories" camp says. My take on it is you can if that works for you, but it's not mandatory.
Here's where I have a problem with this - especially since those who start with any weight loss program usually believe more (i.e. a bigger deficit) is better. Using an extreme example (not really me) to make my point:
Let's say I enter "sedentary" for my activity level. MFP will spit back a calorie goal of 1500 to match my goal right? (In my case, however that level would actually be closer to 1lb per week because 1500 is the floor). But, let's say MFP didn't have a floor - if it didn't, it would recommend that I eat 1150 to meet my 2 lb / week goal. Now, since I believe "more is better" because I'm new at this, I go about my real day, which is decidedly NOT sedentary (I actually burn about 3100-3600 calories per day). If I do not eat back exercise calories, I cannot fuel my workouts with food alone. My body cannot fuel the rest of the deficit on fat alone. So it turns to other things, like muscle. And the fat that should be used for other necessary things, including brain function gets burned instead to fuel activity.
In your case, you may not be burning muscle, or having other issues because the deficit may not be that big, but for those folks who set their activity levels lower than what they actually are, not eating back exercise calories (in the effort to accelerate their weight loss because more is better right?) can be a huge deal.
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
How long have you been in a deficit?0 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
Well. Let's see. I was always a bit on the heavy side and heard about the complications. Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, less energy, increased risk of heart attack, stroke, certain cancers... But hey. I didn't have any of that. I'd been overweight since I was about 10 (granted, it was only by about 5-10 lbs back then, not the 130 extra I ultimately ballooned out to 34 years later, but my point is I've been heavy most of my life.) and, apart from feeling a little depressed when I realized that many of the clothes I liked on the mannequins didn't come in my size or, if they did, weren't flattering on me... "none of the doom and gloom" ever happened to me.
...Until it did.
One day my leg swelled up and I went to the emergency room where they came up with a diagnosis of cellulitus. They gave me IV antibiotics and sent me home with a prescription for oral ones. Two days later, that leg erupted in water blisters. They were lanced, but left behind an infected weeping wound that needed more antibiotics (3 courses of the one that actually worked, but 4 earlier courses of "Let's give you 10 days of this and see if it helps any"), daily dressing changes for three months, visits from home-care nurses, and got me a referral to a vascular surgeon. The verdict? Forcing my legs to carry about twice the weight they'd been designed to, give or take a few pounds, had caused the veins in my legs to collapse and impacted my lymphatic system, giving me lymphedema. I was told I'd need compression stockings to manage it, but until the weeping wound healed, I couldn't even get fitted for them. In addition, any time I break the skin on that leg, it takes forever to heal and runs the risk of infection. Sometimes, a topical antibiotic helps. Sometimes, the leg swells up anyway and it takes 2, sometimes 3 courses of oral antibiotics to get it under control. So now, I worry about building up a resistance to them.
The other piece of advice I was given was the one that sent me here: losing weight is one of the best things I can do to manage the condition.
And yes. I said 'manage'. This isn't going away. To date, there is no cure. It's not going to disappear. It might flare up again. Or I might develop a tolerance to antibiotics that could impact my recovery from unrelated conditions. Last month, I missed a family get-together because I was afraid that flying with a cold would give me an ear infection. In the past, I would have probably figured it was worth the risk, especially since the ticket was non-refundable and we didn't have cancellation insurance. Not now.
For 34 years, I was fat, but in reasonably good health, with no serious conditions. But eventually, I did lose the Russian Roulette spin. But hey, that's me. I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who are still "over-fueling" but not yet suffering for it. Under-fueling can be just as risky. And just as irreversible.
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Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
It might, it might not. No one is invincible. For purposes of discussion with strangers on forums here, especially those seeking advice, it is highly advisable to suggest the most health-conscious paths. For some of us we are concerned about our health 1, 5, and 30 years from now. It's a quality of life thing. I didn't follow the whole thread, so I'm not so sure why you've very combative about it. You seem to be claiming that other people's workouts don't qualify as intense enough, and suggesting that very low calories vs activity level has no long term consequence based on anecdotal evidence. So... shrug?
Agreed. Additionally, it's best to tell strangers on forums to use MFP the way it was designed, which is to eat back exercise calories (and adjust as needed.)10 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »None the less, I don't find it necessary to add 300 calories to my intake to "make up" for a 3 mile run. Far from the doom and gloom predicted by some of the naysayers here, it hasn't killed my energy levels, my nails are not brittle, my hair is not falling out, my pace has increased (I just PR'd three different distances in the last six weeks in races), and I am not starving to death.
The sky will not fall down if I don't "eat back" those calories.
Nor do I.0 -
@estherdragonbat I wanted to say your post was "awesome", but that's kind of awkward. What you've gone through is certainly not awesome. Your testimony, however, is. Thanks for sharing this.7
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
It probably wouldn't running a few miles here and there...but often, that's only a starting point for many people and their fitness goals expand and they do more...I'd think anyone interested in their overall health would also want to learn to feed properly, particularly if they're interested in actual fitness. As an example, my wife started out with 5Ks and the like...she does 1/2 marathons and marathons now...telling her not to properly fuel that training would have some pretty bad consequences.
Not all of these comments are meant for "you"...there are a lot of people who look at these comments and I would think it best to illustrate how the tool actually is designed to work and ultimately how to be as healthy as possible. There are people doing god knows how much exercise and think they shouldn't eat back calories even though they're doing 2 hours of cardio per day...for those people, your comments aren't particularly helpful and can actually be harmful.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »It probably wouldn't running a few miles here and there...but often, that's only a starting point for many people and their fitness goals expand and they do more...I'd think anyone interested in their overall health would also want to learn to feed properly, particularly if they're interested in actual fitness. As an example, my wife started out with 5Ks and the like...she does 1/2 marathons and marathons now...telling her not to properly fuel that training would have some pretty bad consequences.
Not all of these comments are meant for "you"...there are a lot of people who look at these comments and I would think it best to illustrate how the tool actually is designed to work and ultimately how to be as healthy as possible. There are people doing god knows how much exercise and think they shouldn't eat back calories even though they're doing 2 hours of cardio per day...for those people, your comments aren't particularly helpful and can actually be harmful.
That is such an unpleasant term for "eat". It makes me think of hogs at a trough. Feeding, in a human world, is the act of placing food in one's mouth. I am a human and I eat.0 -
Silentpadna wrote: »@estherdragonbat I wanted to say your post was "awesome", but that's kind of awkward. What you've gone through is certainly not awesome. Your testimony, however, is. Thanks for sharing this.
Ditto!2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
I don't think anyone is arguing to eat a "ton" of fuel. The question is whether or not it's okay to eat back the estimated burn of a 3 mile run. My daily goal to maintain is 1,460. If I run 3 miles, I'm going to eat at least some of that back and that's okay.
Yes. When I run 3 miles, I definitely eat those ~200 calories, or else I'm going to be starving, grumpy and ready to kill someone at tango (which puts me at a total goal of 1440 calories for the day). (And I will also be eating or drinking back a low-ball estimate of my time "ballroom dancing, slow"). Incidentally, today IS my short easy run day.6 -
janejellyroll wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
How long have you been in a deficit?
Long enough to know what works for me. I am not asking for advice.Silentpadna wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
unless you are a very small woman who runs her 3miles at a very slow pace what you are describing doesn't seem plausible to me either...
but that being said you found what works for you great...have at but don't assume everyone is like you and what you do is "right".
Not eating back exercise calories is not good advice unless you are so under estimating your intake that you gain when you do *coughs* then that would be the only reason not to.
Yeah, see there's no underestimating because I don't estimate. I use a scale, weigh in grams, USDA database check my entries.
I am not at all saying that everyone is like me and should do what I do. In fact, I'm saying the opposite. That people should not do as someone else does simply because that person has told them it's the One Right Way, which is what the "you must eat back calories" camp says. My take on it is you can if that works for you, but it's not mandatory.
Here's where I have a problem with this - especially since those who start with any weight loss program usually believe more (i.e. a bigger deficit) is better. Using an extreme example (not really me) to make my point:
Let's say I enter "sedentary" for my activity level. MFP will spit back a calorie goal of 1500 to match my goal right? (In my case, however that level would actually be closer to 1lb per week because 1500 is the floor). But, let's say MFP didn't have a floor - if it didn't, it would recommend that I eat 1150 to meet my 2 lb / week goal. Now, since I believe "more is better" because I'm new at this, I go about my real day, which is decidedly NOT sedentary (I actually burn about 3100-3600 calories per day). If I do not eat back exercise calories, I cannot fuel my workouts with food alone. My body cannot fuel the rest of the deficit on fat alone. So it turns to other things, like muscle. And the fat that should be used for other necessary things, including brain function gets burned instead to fuel activity.
In your case, you may not be burning muscle, or having other issues because the deficit may not be that big, but for those folks who set their activity levels lower than what they actually are, not eating back exercise calories (in the effort to accelerate their weight loss because more is better right?) can be a huge deal.
I'm doing just fine. The results of my diet and exercise are very much exactly what I want them to be.estherdragonbat wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
Well. Let's see. I was always a bit on the heavy side and heard about the complications. Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, less energy, increased risk of heart attack, stroke, certain cancers... But hey. I didn't have any of that. I'd been overweight since I was about 10 (granted, it was only by about 5-10 lbs back then, not the 130 extra I ultimately ballooned out to 34 years later, but my point is I've been heavy most of my life.) and, apart from feeling a little depressed when I realized that many of the clothes I liked on the mannequins didn't come in my size or, if they did, weren't flattering on me... "none of the doom and gloom" ever happened to me.
...Until it did.
One day my leg swelled up and I went to the emergency room where they came up with a diagnosis of cellulitus. They gave me IV antibiotics and sent me home with a prescription for oral ones. Two days later, that leg erupted in water blisters. They were lanced, but left behind an infected weeping wound that needed more antibiotics (3 courses of the one that actually worked, but 4 earlier courses of "Let's give you 10 days of this and see if it helps any"), daily dressing changes for three months, visits from home-care nurses, and got me a referral to a vascular surgeon. The verdict? Forcing my legs to carry about twice the weight they'd been designed to, give or take a few pounds, had caused the veins in my legs to collapse and impacted my lymphatic system, giving me lymphedema. I was told I'd need compression stockings to manage it, but until the weeping wound healed, I couldn't even get fitted for them. In addition, any time I break the skin on that leg, it takes forever to heal and runs the risk of infection. Sometimes, a topical antibiotic helps. Sometimes, the leg swells up anyway and it takes 2, sometimes 3 courses of oral antibiotics to get it under control. So now, I worry about building up a resistance to them.
The other piece of advice I was given was the one that sent me here: losing weight is one of the best things I can do to manage the condition.
And yes. I said 'manage'. This isn't going away. To date, there is no cure. It's not going to disappear. It might flare up again. Or I might develop a tolerance to antibiotics that could impact my recovery from unrelated conditions. Last month, I missed a family get-together because I was afraid that flying with a cold would give me an ear infection. In the past, I would have probably figured it was worth the risk, especially since the ticket was non-refundable and we didn't have cancellation insurance. Not now.
For 34 years, I was fat, but in reasonably good health, with no serious conditions. But eventually, I did lose the Russian Roulette spin. But hey, that's me. I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who are still "over-fueling" but not yet suffering for it. Under-fueling can be just as risky. And just as irreversible.
As I have repeatedly said, different people can see different results of their diet and lifestyle. I've never had diabetes, cellulitis or lymphedma. I am, in fact, in very good health.fitmom4lifemfp wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »None the less, I don't find it necessary to add 300 calories to my intake to "make up" for a 3 mile run. Far from the doom and gloom predicted by some of the naysayers here, it hasn't killed my energy levels, my nails are not brittle, my hair is not falling out, my pace has increased (I just PR'd three different distances in the last six weeks in races), and I am not starving to death.
The sky will not fall down if I don't "eat back" those calories.
Nor do I.
I take it you're not suffering malnutrition either?0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Agreed. Additionally, it's best to tell strangers on forums to use MFP the way it was designed, which is to eat back exercise calories (and adjust as needed.)
It's amazing how many people are certain they're special snowflakes in this regard.
If I simply did exactly what an app tells me to do without applying any of my own knowledge or thought, I'd probably have been killed by my GPS long ago.
I don't use the app to tell me how much to eat, only to keep track of where I am with respect to my goals.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
It probably wouldn't running a few miles here and there...but often, that's only a starting point for many people and their fitness goals expand and they do more...I'd think anyone interested in their overall health would also want to learn to feed properly, particularly if they're interested in actual fitness. As an example, my wife started out with 5Ks and the like...she does 1/2 marathons and marathons now...telling her not to properly fuel that training would have some pretty bad consequences.
Not all of these comments are meant for "you"...there are a lot of people who look at these comments and I would think it best to illustrate how the tool actually is designed to work and ultimately how to be as healthy as possible. There are people doing god knows how much exercise and think they shouldn't eat back calories even though they're doing 2 hours of cardio per day...for those people, your comments aren't particularly helpful and can actually be harmful.
I ran a half marathon a week and a half ago. As I've said many, many times on this site, I don't find I personally have a need to eat more if I run less than 8 miles. Beyond that, I tend to eat a little more. Maybe not what you think I should, but plenty for me to not be hungry and to be happy with my performance.
The distances vary with cycling, by about double, with the effect it has on my appetite. Soon I'll be doing a century ride with some others, and I'm well on track for where I want to be with that, also.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Eating back the calories legitimately burned on a 3 mile run isn't a ton, it's snack. No one is suggesting eating more than what is burnt, we're advocating properly fueling exercise and not creating a larger than necessary deficit in the name of losing weight a bit faster at the possible expense of health and fitness. To be clear, I'm posting this for the benefit of others reading this thread who may be under the impression that eating back exercise calories is somehow bad.13 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Geocitiesuser wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »This is bad advice.
It's not bad advice. I have a target of 1450. I get an extra 300 a day on average for exercise. If I eat 1750 I don't lose weight. If I eat 1450 I do lose weight. It's quite ok NOT to eat your exercise calories unless you are working out really hard and eating very little and have a massive deficit.
A 300 calorie burn generally means I was working out pretty hard (that's ~ a 3.5-4 mile run for a non-obese female). I'm with Blitzia on this: I think the problem is with people over-estimating their burns (the 'intense yoga session' or 'I waddled around the grocery store for some extra minutes and my Fitbit says I burned a kazillion calories extra today' folks).
It's a 2.5-3 mile run. for "a non-obese female" And 25-40 minutes isn't "working out pretty hard"
I call that a short, easy run, and no reason to eat more. At eight miles running, I eat a little more that day. Between 200-300 calories more. This has not hurt my performance at all. Distance and pace have both been steadily increasing.
doesn't matter what you call it...
It's still not necessary to eat a ton to "fuel" for a 3 mile run.
Nobody is arguing to eat a "ton"...but you could certainly eat another XXX calories provided the estimate is relatively accurate and you would still lose weight at the rate that you told MFP you wanted to...which is the whole point of the question.
Could.
If I wanted to, and were hungry. Neither of those conditions apply, and the world has not ended.
You know that things can take time to develop right? Most overtraining injuries and issues aren't actually a matter of overtraining but rather an issue of underfeeding activity and they happen over time. Hopefully you won't have any issues, but there are plenty of people who do and have had issues.
Personally, I train for my fitness and performance and improved fitness and performance and feeding properly is a part of that...lean, healthy, and fit people eat and train...I know a ton of them.
So if I just wait a few more years?
Yeah. Were you not planning on making it that long or something?
I find it hilarious that I point out none of the doom and gloom has happened to me, and I'm told basically that it will "eventually".
How long is eventually? It's not as if my lifestyle is new to me. It started with "takes more than a few weeks." Then it was months. Now we're into years. Do we go to decades next? It's exactly the same as being told that you'll just magically start gaining weight when you're "older". You want me to check back when I'm 90?
It probably wouldn't running a few miles here and there...but often, that's only a starting point for many people and their fitness goals expand and they do more...I'd think anyone interested in their overall health would also want to learn to feed properly, particularly if they're interested in actual fitness. As an example, my wife started out with 5Ks and the like...she does 1/2 marathons and marathons now...telling her not to properly fuel that training would have some pretty bad consequences.
Not all of these comments are meant for "you"...there are a lot of people who look at these comments and I would think it best to illustrate how the tool actually is designed to work and ultimately how to be as healthy as possible. There are people doing god knows how much exercise and think they shouldn't eat back calories even though they're doing 2 hours of cardio per day...for those people, your comments aren't particularly helpful and can actually be harmful.
I ran a half marathon a week and a half ago. As I've said many, many times on this site, I don't find I personally have a need to eat more if I run less than 8 miles. Beyond that, I tend to eat a little more. Maybe not what you think I should, but plenty for me to not be hungry and to be happy with my performance.
The distances vary with cycling, by about double, with the effect it has on my appetite. Soon I'll be doing a century ride with some others, and I'm well on track for where I want to be with that, also.
How in the world did you highjack this entire thread to make it all about you?
For the original poster:
I lost 70 pounds in '07/'08. I ate every calorie given me on Myfitnesspal for exercise. I used the numbers given. I didn't try to rig the system. If you're going to use a tool, use the tool. I adjusted according to my logged data. That's all there is to it. :drinker:
If you're going to go rogue, why ask the community to applaud that? The method on this site works. It's different than using other methods. It just confuses people to say otherwise.23 -
gofaster01 wrote: »I wasn't loosing weight at first then I stopped adding my exercise calories to my goal calories. I still exercise but I don't add the extra calories to my intake and I lost 9 pounds.
As others have pointed out, if you had used the MFP method for setting a goal and been logging both your intake and output accurately, you should have been losing weight while eating back at least a portion of those calories (since the calorie burns are often inflated). Since you weren't, you were likely already eating more to begin with. So your approach to not eat back those calories is likely just correcting for your own inaccuracies in logging. At the end of the day the results may be the same (depending over what time period you lost the 9 lbs in).... but the way you got there could eventually cause your u issues when trying to transfer to maintenance since you likely don't actually have good data to understand your TDEE.
At the end of the day, a wise rabbit used to say, "the winner is the one who eats the most and still loses". I'm not sure why people tend to try to aim for the lowest possible intake, or rapid weight loss and then encourage others to do so as well since both approaches can have adverse effects in the long term.11
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