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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
Replies
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No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. ]]
That's a great applause line but we all know that it's far, far more complex than that.
It begs the question :
What is healthcare ?
i.e.
Where does one draw the line on services?
And, of course, who pays for it?
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Definitely. People who are more at risk should pay more. As a young male, I pay more for car insurance then almost everybody. The same should apply to healthcare.1
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Should older people pay more for health insurance? How about health care? Should a doctor charge a 60 year old more than a 20 year old for the same procedure?3
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Absolutely not! Obese people as well as others with serious health conditions (such as old people) should not carry an extra burden. Instead of blaming obese people for their condition which is a tricky combination of physical and mental issues - more should be invested into prevention, research, and treatment. The world is dealing with this problem for less than fifty years.
Making someone pay for being sick is cruel.3 -
No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.6 -
No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
As Senator Paul pointed out. That's called slavery.4 -
It doesn't necessarily need to be a slippery slope issue or about punishment and reward. Healthcare is a service provided to individuals. Those that use that service more often, for whatever reason, ought to pay more than those that use it less frequently. This should also account for more expensive treatments. I don't really understand why anyone would think that it's fair or beneficial to a society to essentially force others to pay for my bad luck and/or poor life choices.3
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No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
But everyone who buys health insurance is forcing other people to pay for their healthcare....that's how it works. Whatever is billed to your insurance company by a Dr is paid from a pool of money that other people have paid into. The only way you can truly enact this belief is to not buy health insurance but self pay for every health expense.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
As Senator Paul pointed out. That's called slavery.
Oh so calling 911 for fire, or police is actually calling up "slaves" is it? How so? Everyone pays taxes for these services no matter how much they need/use them.7 -
stanmann571 wrote: »No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
As Senator Paul pointed out. That's called slavery.
Oh so calling 911 for fire, or police is actually calling up "slaves" is it? How so? Everyone pays taxes for these services no matter how much they need/use them.
Yes I pay for those services.
And if they went away it wouldn't be the loss of a human right.3 -
stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
As Senator Paul pointed out. That's called slavery.
Oh so calling 911 for fire, or police is actually calling up "slaves" is it? How so? Everyone pays taxes for these services no matter how much they need/use them.
Yes I pay for those services.
And if they went away it wouldn't be the loss of a human right.
No, you don't directly pay for those services. You pay towards the cost of them via taxes. The pool of taxes paid by everyone then pays for these services. It's same concept as health insurance. You aren't charged more taxes if you've been mugged or otherwise a victim of a crime or if you've carelessly burnt your house down due to playing with matches and hair spray.5 -
No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
But everyone who buys health insurance is forcing other people to pay for their healthcare....that's how it works. Whatever is billed to your insurance company by a Dr is paid from a pool of money that other people have paid into. The only way you can truly enact this belief is to not buy health insurance but self pay for every health expense.
Well we did not used to be forced by government to purchase health insurance, so people had a choice.
This is not how it works, but a simplistic facade. When you wonder why healthcare costs are so expensive look no further than the price exchange programs managed by government, insurance, wholesale distributors, hospital networks, and pharmaceutical/medical device companies.
We would be far better off removing insurance from this process.1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
As Senator Paul pointed out. That's called slavery.
Oh so calling 911 for fire, or police is actually calling up "slaves" is it? How so? Everyone pays taxes for these services no matter how much they need/use them.
Fire, EMT, police services are all government employees.
Are you going to nationalize physicians, nurses, and all medical personnel?1 -
No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
But everyone who buys health insurance is forcing other people to pay for their healthcare....that's how it works. Whatever is billed to your insurance company by a Dr is paid from a pool of money that other people have paid into. The only way you can truly enact this belief is to not buy health insurance but self pay for every health expense.
Well we did not used to be forced by government to purchase health insurance, so people had a choice.
This is not how it works, but a simplistic facade. When you wonder why healthcare costs are so expensive look no further than the price exchange programs managed by government, insurance, wholesale distributors, hospital networks, and pharmaceutical/medical device companies.
We would be far better off removing insurance from this process.
Healthcare costs are outrageously high in the US because it's based on private insurance. I agree removing the entire insurance industry would make things much better for all concerned ( except the people who own and work for health insurance companies...they'd have to retrain and find new jobs). A single payer system is the best system out there to date imho.
5 -
stanmann571 wrote: »No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
As Senator Paul pointed out. That's called slavery.
Oh so calling 911 for fire, or police is actually calling up "slaves" is it? How so? Everyone pays taxes for these services no matter how much they need/use them.
Fire, EMT, police services are all government employees.
Are you going to nationalize physicians, nurses, and all medical personnel?
Yes.5 -
No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
But everyone who buys health insurance is forcing other people to pay for their healthcare....that's how it works. Whatever is billed to your insurance company by a Dr is paid from a pool of money that other people have paid into. The only way you can truly enact this belief is to not buy health insurance but self pay for every health expense.
Well we did not used to be forced by government to purchase health insurance, so people had a choice.
This is not how it works, but a simplistic facade. When you wonder why healthcare costs are so expensive look no further than the price exchange programs managed by government, insurance, wholesale distributors, hospital networks, and pharmaceutical/medical device companies.
We would be far better off removing insurance from this process.
Healthcare costs are outrageously high in the US because it's based on private insurance. I agree removing the entire insurance industry would make things much better for all concerned ( except the people who own and work for health insurance companies...they'd have to retrain and find new jobs). A single payer system is the best system out there to date imho.
Healthcare costs were in line with the rest of consumer index until the early 1960s where government expanded insurance without regulating the industry. Since then this has become consistently the most profitable market sector. I agree that this should be removed entirely. Deliberate insertion of middlemen into any process is insanity - unless of course your goal is to insert inefficiency (if you are the middleman).
Single payer is a pipe dream and goes against human nature. You cannot support any system with unlimited demand and limited supply. You cannot continue innovation without reward. Every socialized system fails - it's just a matter of mitigating the damage done before it fails.
Those in the medical profession will resist your use of force to try and nationalize. What will you do then?3 -
No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
But everyone who buys health insurance is forcing other people to pay for their healthcare....that's how it works. Whatever is billed to your insurance company by a Dr is paid from a pool of money that other people have paid into. The only way you can truly enact this belief is to not buy health insurance but self pay for every health expense.
Well we did not used to be forced by government to purchase health insurance, so people had a choice.
This is not how it works, but a simplistic facade. When you wonder why healthcare costs are so expensive look no further than the price exchange programs managed by government, insurance, wholesale distributors, hospital networks, and pharmaceutical/medical device companies.
We would be far better off removing insurance from this process.
Healthcare costs are outrageously high in the US because it's based on private insurance. I agree removing the entire insurance industry would make things much better for all concerned ( except the people who own and work for health insurance companies...they'd have to retrain and find new jobs). A single payer system is the best system out there to date imho.
Healthcare costs were in line with the rest of consumer index until the early 1960s where government expanded insurance without regulating the industry. Since then this has become consistently the most profitable market sector. I agree that this should be removed entirely. Deliberate insertion of middlemen into any process is insanity - unless of course your goal is to insert inefficiency (if you are the middleman).
Single payer is a pipe dream and goes against human nature. You cannot support any system with unlimited demand and limited supply. You cannot continue innovation without reward. Every socialized system fails - it's just a matter of mitigating the damage done before it fails.
Those in the medical profession will resist your use of force to try and nationalize. What will you do then?
Vote with my feet...which I've already done. Now I pay only 2% extra in taxes for all the healthcare I could possibly need and it's saved me a bundle of money because I was paying more than 2% of my income on health insurance and having to fight with said insurance company over which Dr is in network, not in network, constantly "shopping" around every year for a better deal as costs kept going up and benefits down.2 -
No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
But everyone who buys health insurance is forcing other people to pay for their healthcare....that's how it works. Whatever is billed to your insurance company by a Dr is paid from a pool of money that other people have paid into. The only way you can truly enact this belief is to not buy health insurance but self pay for every health expense.
Well we did not used to be forced by government to purchase health insurance, so people had a choice.
This is not how it works, but a simplistic facade. When you wonder why healthcare costs are so expensive look no further than the price exchange programs managed by government, insurance, wholesale distributors, hospital networks, and pharmaceutical/medical device companies.
We would be far better off removing insurance from this process.
Healthcare costs are outrageously high in the US because it's based on private insurance. I agree removing the entire insurance industry would make things much better for all concerned ( except the people who own and work for health insurance companies...they'd have to retrain and find new jobs). A single payer system is the best system out there to date imho.
Healthcare costs were in line with the rest of consumer index until the early 1960s where government expanded insurance without regulating the industry. Since then this has become consistently the most profitable market sector. I agree that this should be removed entirely. Deliberate insertion of middlemen into any process is insanity - unless of course your goal is to insert inefficiency (if you are the middleman).
Single payer is a pipe dream and goes against human nature. You cannot support any system with unlimited demand and limited supply. You cannot continue innovation without reward. Every socialized system fails - it's just a matter of mitigating the damage done before it fails.
Those in the medical profession will resist your use of force to try and nationalize. What will you do then?
Vote with my feet...which I've already done. Now I pay only 2% extra in taxes for all the healthcare I could possibly need and it's saved me a bundle of money because I was paying more than 2% of my income on health insurance and having to fight with said insurance company over which Dr is in network, not in network, constantly "shopping" around every year for a better deal as costs kept going up and benefits down.
I would agree with this philosophy as well and wish more people would simply vote with their feet instead of forcing their beliefs of social justice onto others.4 -
No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
But everyone who buys health insurance is forcing other people to pay for their healthcare....that's how it works. Whatever is billed to your insurance company by a Dr is paid from a pool of money that other people have paid into. The only way you can truly enact this belief is to not buy health insurance but self pay for every health expense.
Well we did not used to be forced by government to purchase health insurance, so people had a choice.
This is not how it works, but a simplistic facade. When you wonder why healthcare costs are so expensive look no further than the price exchange programs managed by government, insurance, wholesale distributors, hospital networks, and pharmaceutical/medical device companies.
We would be far better off removing insurance from this process.
Healthcare costs are outrageously high in the US because it's based on private insurance. I agree removing the entire insurance industry would make things much better for all concerned ( except the people who own and work for health insurance companies...they'd have to retrain and find new jobs). A single payer system is the best system out there to date imho.
Healthcare costs were in line with the rest of consumer index until the early 1960s where government expanded insurance without regulating the industry. Since then this has become consistently the most profitable market sector. I agree that this should be removed entirely. Deliberate insertion of middlemen into any process is insanity - unless of course your goal is to insert inefficiency (if you are the middleman).
Single payer is a pipe dream and goes against human nature. You cannot support any system with unlimited demand and limited supply. You cannot continue innovation without reward. Every socialized system fails - it's just a matter of mitigating the damage done before it fails.
Those in the medical profession will resist your use of force to try and nationalize. What will you do then?
Vote with my feet...which I've already done. Now I pay only 2% extra in taxes for all the healthcare I could possibly need and it's saved me a bundle of money because I was paying more than 2% of my income on health insurance and having to fight with said insurance company over which Dr is in network, not in network, constantly "shopping" around every year for a better deal as costs kept going up and benefits down.
I would agree with this philosophy as well and wish more people would simply vote with their feet instead of forcing their beliefs of social justice onto others.
Yep agreed.1 -
No. Everyone should be entitled to the same level of healthcare. I feel it's a basic human right. It's similar to charging people more who have a pre existing condition. What else, are we going to charge people more who have a genetic predisposition to certain Illnesses?
Basic human rights would be life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
You have no right to demand services provided by another individual.
But everyone who buys health insurance is forcing other people to pay for their healthcare....that's how it works. Whatever is billed to your insurance company by a Dr is paid from a pool of money that other people have paid into. The only way you can truly enact this belief is to not buy health insurance but self pay for every health expense.
Well we did not used to be forced by government to purchase health insurance, so people had a choice.
This is not how it works, but a simplistic facade. When you wonder why healthcare costs are so expensive look no further than the price exchange programs managed by government, insurance, wholesale distributors, hospital networks, and pharmaceutical/medical device companies.
We would be far better off removing insurance from this process.
Healthcare costs are outrageously high in the US because it's based on private insurance. I agree removing the entire insurance industry would make things much better for all concerned ( except the people who own and work for health insurance companies...they'd have to retrain and find new jobs). A single payer system is the best system out there to date imho.
Healthcare costs were in line with the rest of consumer index until the early 1960s where government expanded insurance without regulating the industry. Since then this has become consistently the most profitable market sector. I agree that this should be removed entirely. Deliberate insertion of middlemen into any process is insanity - unless of course your goal is to insert inefficiency (if you are the middleman).
Single payer is a pipe dream and goes against human nature. You cannot support any system with unlimited demand and limited supply. You cannot continue innovation without reward. Every socialized system fails - it's just a matter of mitigating the damage done before it fails.
Those in the medical profession will resist your use of force to try and nationalize. What will you do then?
Eh, can you think of any close neighbors who just might have a working "pipe dream" for many years, like one up north? Canada, Denmark, Sweden all have very functional single payer systems which score better than our health system on ratings of health care by country. In fact we spend the highest percent GDP and are #37... we aren't even high ranking in the Americas: after Canada, Columbia, Chile, and Costa Rica score better. Yet we are talking about restricting more access here in the US now. We are also rapidly losing ground on innovation, invention and discovery to the rest of the world. Most companies are also international, many of our drug companies are at least in part foreign owned or based in other countries to avoid taxes. Switzerland, France and UK all have top 10 drug companies which are very functional and also have hybrid single payer systems in a much smaller country with much higher ratings of health care rankings. So I don't see either of those arguments having much basis in reality, its just people repeating such statements without any data backing it up.
Many other countries in Europe have a working hybrid of single payer as well, and almost all of our first world nations have some public system hybrid. But its still falsely labeled "pipe dream" and unworkable by people who think they don't want it (many of whom have just been told they don't want it and don't even understand what it actually means).
Now I am definitely not a fan of the government forcing us to pay a private company, and we have some big problems currently (especially for small businesses/middle class people). Yet if Switzerland can have a system for an avg $243 per month with no change in costs based on age, 99% of people covered, max $2500 deductible and covers more than most our plans, while our average is $536 per month, common $5-7,000 deductibles, something is very very wrong in our system. I think we either need to improve what we have and turn it into a single payer hybrid or go back completely to the way it was, because nobody should be forced to pay the large costs for what poor coverage we currently have, and its only going to get worse for most people with every glimpse of what is being worked on in the Senate and House.10
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