Dairy???
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We're also the only ones who do a lot of other things. That doesn't mean that purifying our water, brushing our teeth, wearing clothing, etc. are dangerous. In fact, those things demonstrably improve our health and prolong our lives.While humans are the only ones who consume another animals milk. I'm not sure why people get so confused about that.
Not to mention that the only reason other animals don't is because they don't have the means to...if they could, they would. My cat loves milk.4 -
There is so much mix messaging when it comes to dairy that I have read. I use 1% milk in my coffee and cereal. I use fat free half in half in coffee and some dairy dishes too when I want that creaminess. I love dairy, but what helps me keep it under control is my high cholesterol which I am working on lowering with the help of statins and trying to lose weight.0
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WendyLeigh1119 wrote: »It makes zero sense to consume another animals milk, and animal milk based products. The reason that so many people are "lactose intolerant" is because we're not supposed to be eating that stuff. The only beneficial part of dairy is the high protein content and you can get that from meat, nuts, beans, seeds and even leafy greens.
But it makes sense to eat the flesh from another animal?? I find it odd that someone would oppose dairy while endorsing meat of all things.
Dairy is delicious. I could cut just about anything from my diet and never think about it again. But dairy? No way. Cheese and milk are pretty much the only things that make eating worthwhile!
It does make sense to eat small amounts of meat, as we can see in many other species of animals in the world. While humans are the only ones who consume another animals milk. I'm not sure why people get so confused about that.
For starters, you're wrong in thinking we're the only ones who consume another animal's milk.
Secondly, even if we were, we're also the only ones arguing whether we're "meant" to drink milk on a virtual network of highly advanced technology the likes of which this world has never seen before.6 -
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Objectively, its a little bit weird isn't it haha? The only time it is ever really observed in nature is in time of desperation. The fact we had to develop a mutation in order to be able to digest it suggests to me that its more of a survival technique than a diet guideline. And the level of solely natural hormones in milk, designed to make a calf's growth boom, freaks me out. It also largely seems like a waste of calories, with the exception of a few high-protein fermented products. We seem to forget that lactose is a sugar too. So unless we're starving...
That being said, many people find low-lactose cheese and yoghurt, as well as fermented milk products, to be fine for their body and permissible as part of a healthy diet. You have to see what works for you and feels okay.
Personally, I can't begin to imagine it's all that healthy in the long run. I don't want to just live a long life in terms of number of years, but I want as many of those years to be in a happy and healthy body as possible. No good living til I'm 90 if the last 30 years are spent living on the edge of heart attack and stroke.
The jury is still out though, hence the mixture of information! 1 -
@mizchickee, no, I haven't tried goat's milk. I do know that I don't tolerate goat & sheep cheeses either, so I suspect the milk would cause similar results. I seem to be getting plenty of calcium from my dark leafy greens, though. 0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
We're also the only ones who do a lot of other things. That doesn't mean that purifying our water, brushing our teeth, wearing clothing, etc. are dangerous. In fact, those things demonstrably improve our health and prolong our lives.While humans are the only ones who consume another animals milk. I'm not sure why people get so confused about that.
Not to mention that the only reason other animals don't is because they don't have the means to...if they could, they would. My cat loves milk.
My husband has shredded wheat with kefir every morning and my dogs get the kefir that is left in the dish. They love it, it's probably the highlight of their day. If they could milk a cow, I imagine they would.0 -
Anyone else find it... ironic? ... that the person saying how bad dairy is...
wait for it...
...consumes dairy every day?
Ironic? Sure.
Seems to be a common course for these things on MFP, though:
Someone starts proselytizing, shaming, or conspiracy-theorizing about (evil dairy, evil sugar, "clean eating", evil processed foods, etc. - pick one).
Others chime in with "no, no, unless you have allergies or sensitivities, just eat what you like including (milk, cookies, "junk food", etc.) as long as you get reasonable overall nutrition".
Bystanders do diary check, learn proselytizer eats (more dairy, more sugar, more processed food - whatever was in dispute) than most of the "eat whatever you like" advocates.
I don't know whether it's denial, an attempt to expiate dietary sins, self-hatred/self-shaming, "recent convert syndrome", dysfunctional relationship with food, or something else . . . but it seems to happen fairly often.
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Dombarr269 wrote: »Objectively, its a little bit weird isn't it haha? The only time it is ever really observed in nature is in time of desperation. The fact we had to develop a mutation in order to be able to digest it suggests to me that its more of a survival technique than a diet guideline. And the level of solely natural hormones in milk, designed to make a calf's growth boom, freaks me out. It also largely seems like a waste of calories, with the exception of a few high-protein fermented products. We seem to forget that lactose is a sugar too. So unless we're starving...
That being said, many people find low-lactose cheese and yoghurt, as well as fermented milk products, to be fine for their body and permissible as part of a healthy diet. You have to see what works for you and feels okay.
Personally, I can't begin to imagine it's all that healthy in the long run. I don't want to just live a long life in terms of number of years, but I want as many of those years to be in a happy and healthy body as possible. No good living til I'm 90 if the last 30 years are spent living on the edge of heart attack and stroke. The jury is still out though, hence the mixture of information!
At just over 2/3 of the way to age 90, with a long history of eating large amounts of dairy as an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 43 years, I'm thinking my personal jury's at least starting to file back into the jury box.
BMI: 21. HDL: 65. LDL: 112. Triglycerides: 111. Blood pressure: Usually around 115/75. Prescription drugs: Thyroid hormone only. Resting heart rate: 48, at last wake-up check. Regularly see anaerobic threshold heart rates (and occasionally beyond) during exercise with no chest pain, faintness, or other negative symptoms (and can hold somewhere near a just-below-AT heart rate for the better part of an hour, maybe more, with no obvious ill effects beyond sweat).
Happy? Check. Healthy? Close enough, it seems.
Living on the edge of heart attack and stroke for the last 30 years of life? No guarantees in life, but at age 61 already, I'm thinking the odds are against it.
Probably won't make 90, though - my dairy-consuming parents died in their 80s, after a mostly-healthy older age. Maybe that's the dairy penalty, eh: Those years between 87 and 90?
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Dombarr269 wrote: »Objectively, its a little bit weird isn't it haha? The only time it is ever really observed in nature is in time of desperation. The fact we had to develop a mutation in order to be able to digest it suggests to me that its more of a survival technique than a diet guideline. And the level of solely natural hormones in milk, designed to make a calf's growth boom, freaks me out. It also largely seems like a waste of calories, with the exception of a few high-protein fermented products. We seem to forget that lactose is a sugar too. So unless we're starving...
That being said, many people find low-lactose cheese and yoghurt, as well as fermented milk products, to be fine for their body and permissible as part of a healthy diet. You have to see what works for you and feels okay.
Personally, I can't begin to imagine it's all that healthy in the long run. I don't want to just live a long life in terms of number of years, but I want as many of those years to be in a happy and healthy body as possible. No good living til I'm 90 if the last 30 years are spent living on the edge of heart attack and stroke. The jury is still out though, hence the mixture of information!
At just over 2/3 of the way to age 90, with a long history of eating large amounts of dairy as an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 43 years, I'm thinking my personal jury's at least starting to file back into the jury box.
BMI: 21. HDL: 65. LDL: 112. Triglycerides: 111. Blood pressure: Usually around 115/75. Prescription drugs: Thyroid hormone only. Resting heart rate: 48, at last wake-up check. Regularly see anaerobic threshold heart rates (and occasionally beyond) during exercise with no chest pain, faintness, or other negative symptoms (and can hold somewhere near a just-below-AT heart rate for the better part of an hour, maybe more, with no obvious ill effects beyond sweat).
Happy? Check. Healthy? Close enough, it seems.
Living on the edge of heart attack and stroke for the last 30 years of life? No guarantees in life, but at age 61 already, I'm thinking the odds are against it.
Probably won't make 90, though - my dairy-consuming parents died in their 80s, after a mostly-healthy older age. Maybe that's the dairy penalty, eh: Those years between 87 and 90?
Well that's great! As I said, its case of seeing what works for you and your body. OP asked for opinions on dairy. Personally, I see your case as an outlier rather than the norm, and would have to see some real evidence to convince me that dairy is in any way healthy for the general population.
For all the reasons outlined above, consumption of dairy seems highly illogical to me. But here's to hoping that you live a long and healthy 90 years and beyond!0 -
Dombarr269 wrote: »Dombarr269 wrote: »Objectively, its a little bit weird isn't it haha? The only time it is ever really observed in nature is in time of desperation. The fact we had to develop a mutation in order to be able to digest it suggests to me that its more of a survival technique than a diet guideline. And the level of solely natural hormones in milk, designed to make a calf's growth boom, freaks me out. It also largely seems like a waste of calories, with the exception of a few high-protein fermented products. We seem to forget that lactose is a sugar too. So unless we're starving...
That being said, many people find low-lactose cheese and yoghurt, as well as fermented milk products, to be fine for their body and permissible as part of a healthy diet. You have to see what works for you and feels okay.
Personally, I can't begin to imagine it's all that healthy in the long run. I don't want to just live a long life in terms of number of years, but I want as many of those years to be in a happy and healthy body as possible. No good living til I'm 90 if the last 30 years are spent living on the edge of heart attack and stroke. The jury is still out though, hence the mixture of information!
At just over 2/3 of the way to age 90, with a long history of eating large amounts of dairy as an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 43 years, I'm thinking my personal jury's at least starting to file back into the jury box.
BMI: 21. HDL: 65. LDL: 112. Triglycerides: 111. Blood pressure: Usually around 115/75. Prescription drugs: Thyroid hormone only. Resting heart rate: 48, at last wake-up check. Regularly see anaerobic threshold heart rates (and occasionally beyond) during exercise with no chest pain, faintness, or other negative symptoms (and can hold somewhere near a just-below-AT heart rate for the better part of an hour, maybe more, with no obvious ill effects beyond sweat).
Happy? Check. Healthy? Close enough, it seems.
Living on the edge of heart attack and stroke for the last 30 years of life? No guarantees in life, but at age 61 already, I'm thinking the odds are against it.
Probably won't make 90, though - my dairy-consuming parents died in their 80s, after a mostly-healthy older age. Maybe that's the dairy penalty, eh: Those years between 87 and 90?
Well that's great! As I said, its case of seeing what works for you and your body. OP asked for opinions on dairy. Personally, I see your case as an outlier rather than the norm, and would have to see some real evidence to convince me that dairy is in any way healthy for the general population.
For all the reasons outlined above, consumption of dairy seems highly illogical to me. But here's to hoping that you live a long and healthy 90 years and beyond!
Considering we've been consuming dairy for 7,000 - 8,000 years...I think we'll be ok. Look at lifespans in France...they eat a crap ton of dairy...
In the context of a well rounded and varied diet, dairy is just fine...5 -
Dombarr269 wrote: »Objectively, its a little bit weird isn't it haha? The only time it is ever really observed in nature is in time of desperation. The fact we had to develop a mutation in order to be able to digest it suggests to me that its more of a survival technique than a diet guideline. And the level of solely natural hormones in milk, designed to make a calf's growth boom, freaks me out. It also largely seems like a waste of calories, with the exception of a few high-protein fermented products. We seem to forget that lactose is a sugar too. So unless we're starving...
That being said, many people find low-lactose cheese and yoghurt, as well as fermented milk products, to be fine for their body and permissible as part of a healthy diet. You have to see what works for you and feels okay.
Personally, I can't begin to imagine it's all that healthy in the long run. I don't want to just live a long life in terms of number of years, but I want as many of those years to be in a happy and healthy body as possible. No good living til I'm 90 if the last 30 years are spent living on the edge of heart attack and stroke. The jury is still out though, hence the mixture of information!
I always find this comments a bit odd. Baby calves, just like all babies (humans are no different) have high levels of growth hormone. They dont need milk, they need nutrition to grow. It just so happens that milk is how they receive their nutrition.3 -
Dombarr269 wrote: »Dombarr269 wrote: »Objectively, its a little bit weird isn't it haha? The only time it is ever really observed in nature is in time of desperation. The fact we had to develop a mutation in order to be able to digest it suggests to me that its more of a survival technique than a diet guideline. And the level of solely natural hormones in milk, designed to make a calf's growth boom, freaks me out. It also largely seems like a waste of calories, with the exception of a few high-protein fermented products. We seem to forget that lactose is a sugar too. So unless we're starving...
That being said, many people find low-lactose cheese and yoghurt, as well as fermented milk products, to be fine for their body and permissible as part of a healthy diet. You have to see what works for you and feels okay.
Personally, I can't begin to imagine it's all that healthy in the long run. I don't want to just live a long life in terms of number of years, but I want as many of those years to be in a happy and healthy body as possible. No good living til I'm 90 if the last 30 years are spent living on the edge of heart attack and stroke. The jury is still out though, hence the mixture of information!
At just over 2/3 of the way to age 90, with a long history of eating large amounts of dairy as an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 43 years, I'm thinking my personal jury's at least starting to file back into the jury box.
BMI: 21. HDL: 65. LDL: 112. Triglycerides: 111. Blood pressure: Usually around 115/75. Prescription drugs: Thyroid hormone only. Resting heart rate: 48, at last wake-up check. Regularly see anaerobic threshold heart rates (and occasionally beyond) during exercise with no chest pain, faintness, or other negative symptoms (and can hold somewhere near a just-below-AT heart rate for the better part of an hour, maybe more, with no obvious ill effects beyond sweat).
Happy? Check. Healthy? Close enough, it seems.
Living on the edge of heart attack and stroke for the last 30 years of life? No guarantees in life, but at age 61 already, I'm thinking the odds are against it.
Probably won't make 90, though - my dairy-consuming parents died in their 80s, after a mostly-healthy older age. Maybe that's the dairy penalty, eh: Those years between 87 and 90?
Well that's great! As I said, its case of seeing what works for you and your body. OP asked for opinions on dairy. Personally, I see your case as an outlier rather than the norm, and would have to see some real evidence to convince me that dairy is in any way healthy for the general population.
For all the reasons outlined above, consumption of dairy seems highly illogical to me. But here's to hoping that you live a long and healthy 90 years and beyond!
https://scholar.google.de/scholar?start=10&q=milk+health&hl=de&as_sdt=0,5
Knock yourself out.2 -
I love dairy. I put heavy cream in my coffee (or half and half if that's all that is available) and eat a lot of cheese, sometimes lower carb yogurt and I often eat Breyers CarbSmart ice cream. I haven't noticed any ill effects, and my blood work is great. I do also buy unsweetened vanilla almond milk but that's mostly just for smoothies so the calories don't add up quite as fast.0
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I love dairy, I have always loved dairy, in all forms, so do my kids, we will continue to eat/drink dairy until it is an issue (medically speaking).0
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I am a full fat dairy girl. If there is blame to be had for that, it goes to my grandparents who had a dairy farm.
I drink full fat milk, put half and half in my coffee, eat full fat cheese. The two exceptions are Greek yogurt and Mozzarella cheese, which are just easier to find in nonfat and part-skim.
I have a lot of other food allergies along with celiac disease, so I eat dairy because I don't have to worry about what else is in it.
If it fits your calories and you are not on the minority of people who can't tolerate it for whatever reason, then milk is fine.1 -
Dombarr269 wrote: »Dombarr269 wrote: »Objectively, its a little bit weird isn't it haha? The only time it is ever really observed in nature is in time of desperation. The fact we had to develop a mutation in order to be able to digest it suggests to me that its more of a survival technique than a diet guideline. And the level of solely natural hormones in milk, designed to make a calf's growth boom, freaks me out. It also largely seems like a waste of calories, with the exception of a few high-protein fermented products. We seem to forget that lactose is a sugar too. So unless we're starving...
That being said, many people find low-lactose cheese and yoghurt, as well as fermented milk products, to be fine for their body and permissible as part of a healthy diet. You have to see what works for you and feels okay.
Personally, I can't begin to imagine it's all that healthy in the long run. I don't want to just live a long life in terms of number of years, but I want as many of those years to be in a happy and healthy body as possible. No good living til I'm 90 if the last 30 years are spent living on the edge of heart attack and stroke. The jury is still out though, hence the mixture of information!
At just over 2/3 of the way to age 90, with a long history of eating large amounts of dairy as an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 43 years, I'm thinking my personal jury's at least starting to file back into the jury box.
BMI: 21. HDL: 65. LDL: 112. Triglycerides: 111. Blood pressure: Usually around 115/75. Prescription drugs: Thyroid hormone only. Resting heart rate: 48, at last wake-up check. Regularly see anaerobic threshold heart rates (and occasionally beyond) during exercise with no chest pain, faintness, or other negative symptoms (and can hold somewhere near a just-below-AT heart rate for the better part of an hour, maybe more, with no obvious ill effects beyond sweat).
Happy? Check. Healthy? Close enough, it seems.
Living on the edge of heart attack and stroke for the last 30 years of life? No guarantees in life, but at age 61 already, I'm thinking the odds are against it.
Probably won't make 90, though - my dairy-consuming parents died in their 80s, after a mostly-healthy older age. Maybe that's the dairy penalty, eh: Those years between 87 and 90?
Well that's great! As I said, its case of seeing what works for you and your body. OP asked for opinions on dairy. Personally, I see your case as an outlier rather than the norm, and would have to see some real evidence to convince me that dairy is in any way healthy for the general population.
For all the reasons outlined above, consumption of dairy seems highly illogical to me. But here's to hoping that you live a long and healthy 90 years and beyond!
Told my 70-year-old, weight training, Zumba-doing, walker-runner buddy J about this - fairly, I swear - when we were out rowing my double this morning. She laughed and laughed. (She, too, eats dairy freely.)
Yes, I'm an outlier. But it's not the dairy. It's maintaining (in her case) or achieving (in my case) a healthy weight, good nutrition, and frequent vigorous activity. Her 70-year-old husband, after hip replacement & and other orthopedic interventions (decades of over-achieverdom - what can I say?) still teaches Pilates classes multiple times a week. Not *seniors'* classes either.
Read those links @stevencloser posted. Think.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Dombarr269 wrote: »Dombarr269 wrote: »Objectively, its a little bit weird isn't it haha? The only time it is ever really observed in nature is in time of desperation. The fact we had to develop a mutation in order to be able to digest it suggests to me that its more of a survival technique than a diet guideline. And the level of solely natural hormones in milk, designed to make a calf's growth boom, freaks me out. It also largely seems like a waste of calories, with the exception of a few high-protein fermented products. We seem to forget that lactose is a sugar too. So unless we're starving...
That being said, many people find low-lactose cheese and yoghurt, as well as fermented milk products, to be fine for their body and permissible as part of a healthy diet. You have to see what works for you and feels okay.
Personally, I can't begin to imagine it's all that healthy in the long run. I don't want to just live a long life in terms of number of years, but I want as many of those years to be in a happy and healthy body as possible. No good living til I'm 90 if the last 30 years are spent living on the edge of heart attack and stroke. The jury is still out though, hence the mixture of information!
At just over 2/3 of the way to age 90, with a long history of eating large amounts of dairy as an ovo-lacto vegetarian for 43 years, I'm thinking my personal jury's at least starting to file back into the jury box.
BMI: 21. HDL: 65. LDL: 112. Triglycerides: 111. Blood pressure: Usually around 115/75. Prescription drugs: Thyroid hormone only. Resting heart rate: 48, at last wake-up check. Regularly see anaerobic threshold heart rates (and occasionally beyond) during exercise with no chest pain, faintness, or other negative symptoms (and can hold somewhere near a just-below-AT heart rate for the better part of an hour, maybe more, with no obvious ill effects beyond sweat).
Happy? Check. Healthy? Close enough, it seems.
Living on the edge of heart attack and stroke for the last 30 years of life? No guarantees in life, but at age 61 already, I'm thinking the odds are against it.
Probably won't make 90, though - my dairy-consuming parents died in their 80s, after a mostly-healthy older age. Maybe that's the dairy penalty, eh: Those years between 87 and 90?
Well that's great! As I said, its case of seeing what works for you and your body. OP asked for opinions on dairy. Personally, I see your case as an outlier rather than the norm, and would have to see some real evidence to convince me that dairy is in any way healthy for the general population.
For all the reasons outlined above, consumption of dairy seems highly illogical to me. But here's to hoping that you live a long and healthy 90 years and beyond!
Considering we've been consuming dairy for 7,000 - 8,000 years...I think we'll be ok. Look at lifespans in France...they eat a crap ton of dairy...
In the context of a well rounded and varied diet, dairy is just fine...
Yeah, I think after several thousand years it's safe to say the verdict is in!5 -
I think you have this very backwards. Calories are a good thing. They keep us alive. Healthy foods that are also nutritious and that we like aren't a "waste of calories" - they are positively good for us.Dombarr269 wrote: »It also largely seems like a waste of calories, with the exception of a few high-protein fermented products. We seem to forget that lactose is a sugar too. So unless we're starving...
One source of calories are sugars, which in their naturally-occurring forms (e.g., fruits, vegetables, legumes) are perfectly healthy. And in fact, it's pretty hard to eat a healthy diet without sugars. For those who can tolerate it, lactose in milk is a perfectly healthy sugar.
Also, fwiw, lactose isn't found in high concentrations in all dairy products. It's very low in cheeses, for example.
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