Netflix Documentary "What the Health" by Kip Andersen

goldthistime
goldthistime Posts: 3,213 Member
in Food and Nutrition
I just finished watching this (advocates veganism) and came here to see if there it has been discussed. I saw a few references but didn't want to hijack someone else's thread. Has anyone else watched this? My take away was that there were some interesting points but there were times when it felt as though Kip was purposely misrepresenting the facts (I thought he used the word "meat" when studies were specifically about "processed meat" for instance), cherry picking of studies, and tinfoil hat thinking (AHA, AMA etc are funded by pharmaceutical firms and meat/dairy farmers so cannot be trusted).

Yet, there were some things I'd like to follow up on in considering the kind of diet that will be the most healthful for me in the future. I'm frankly not willing to consider giving up meat/dairy at the present time because protein has such a big impact on my feelings of satiety, but perhaps by next year. Gives me some time to think about it.

Here's a youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjwefkc5lPE

Here's one viewpoint on the documentary:
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/documentary-details-largest-health-cover-up

I know there have been a wide variety of veganism threads already, but feel free to weigh in on the topic (i.e. is veganism the healthiest diet) even if you don't want to watch the documentary.
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Replies

  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    I didn't really address the rest of your post. I think that veganism like many diets can be healthy or unhealthy. I think that it takes research and understanding to be done right and ensure that you are getting a good nutritional profile from you diet, just like any diet.
  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,213 Member
    Here's another critical piece/podcast:
    https://vinnietortorich.com/2017/06/debunking-what-the-health-in-detail-episode-847/

    I saw a couple posts here from people who watched the documentary and decided to try veganism. I didn't want to interrupt the threads to criticize this documentary but I also felt that the content should be viewed with a fair amount of skepticism.

    Having said that, there were things that were presented that made me want to do more research, and even consider veganism in the future. If we don't get anyone taking the other side of the discussion, tomorrow if I have time I'll go back and try to make some notes.
  • macro4luv2
    macro4luv2 Posts: 2 Member
    This documentary was as full of crap as processed food, I think most of the experts were actors. Diets are individual. I was done when they said sugar wasn't bad for you.....
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/vegan-betrayal-the-myths-vs-the-realities-of-a-plants-only-diet/
  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,213 Member
    jgnatca wrote: »
    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/vegan-betrayal-the-myths-vs-the-realities-of-a-plants-only-diet/

    "“Too-thin vegans are eating animal flesh after all: their own.” Protein starvation leads to self-cannibalization."

    That's a great line.

    Author(s) make a lot of good points. Although the argument that if we're going to be ethical we shouldn't eat plants either because they communicate, and that there are ground up insects in candy bars and other foods that a vegan might eat so they're not truly vegan anyway...not so persuasive.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    goldthistime wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/vegan-betrayal-the-myths-vs-the-realities-of-a-plants-only-diet/

    "“Too-thin vegans are eating animal flesh after all: their own.” Protein starvation leads to self-cannibalization."

    That's a great line.

    Author(s) make a lot of good points. Although the argument that if we're going to be ethical we shouldn't eat plants either because they communicate, and that there are ground up insects in candy bars and other foods that a vegan might eat so they're not truly vegan anyway...not so persuasive.

    It's true though. To survive you have to kill something, be that animals, plants or fungi. Just because they don't have higher brain function like mammals doesn't mean your broccoli wasn't alive until it was cut out of the ground. They grow, eat, reproduce, react to the world around them in a way. There were three more things that make something alive we learned about in biology but it's been a while.
  • OliveGirl128
    OliveGirl128 Posts: 801 Member
    I'm several months into the process of transitioning to a whole foods, plant based diet and while I think there's definite health benefits to eating lots of veggies/fruit, beans, seeds and nuts etc, I also take these kinds of documentaries with a large dose of skepticism. I'm loosely following Dr. Fuhrman's plan, who advocates a whole foods, plant based diet, and even he acknowledges that there's no legitimate research currently available that proves a completely animal free diet is any healthier than one that still includes some meat.

    And like Rainbowbow said-the term vegan is an ethical one and it goes way beyond food choices. Even if I get to the point where I'm completely plant based I'd never label myself a vegan because I don't have the ethical convictions that a vegan does in regards to animal welfare issues, (I grew up on a farm and have a different perspective on that whole topic). I'd just be someone that eats a plant based diet, no further labeling needed.
  • Old_Cat_Lady
    Old_Cat_Lady Posts: 1,193 Member
    edited July 2017
    McGreggor and others are animal rights activists disguised at people that care about your health. McGreggor even works for the Humane Society.
    They want the world to become vegetarians and will make up lies such as meat causes diabetes amd osteoporosis !!!
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,976 Member
    Most documentaries are going to be biased. While many bring out great points of view and information for their agenda, many times they grossly exaggerate what they oppose.

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  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,413 Member
    My "save the animals" argument has always been:

    How many animals and trees die in order to plant vast food crops over huge areas of land? Never mind the pesticides which mess up the ecosystem in general, but how about all the ground dwelling creatures that are killed by modern farm machines and lack of habitat? I don't think anyones' hands are clean. If we eat, other things die to make that happen. We were given dominion over the animals of the earth. It's not a pretty story - but then humans are pretty awful in general.
  • BWA468
    BWA468 Posts: 101 Member
    I watched the first 2 mins and that was enough lol
  • PaulaWallaDingDong
    PaulaWallaDingDong Posts: 4,641 Member
    macro4luv2 wrote: »
    PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
    macro4luv2 wrote: »
    This documentary was as full of crap as processed food, I think most of the experts were actors. Diets are individual. I was done when they said sugar wasn't bad for you.....

    Is sugar bad for you? You must have been watching the other netflix documentaries as well.

    I'll clear that up... Processed sugar is bad for you. I do watch other netflix docs. and some are better than others...... lol

    I didn't need it cleared up, and "processed sugar" (i.e. SUGAR) isn't bad for you in and of itself.
  • Old_Cat_Lady
    Old_Cat_Lady Posts: 1,193 Member
    BWA468 wrote: »
    I watched the first 2 mins and that was enough lol

    Which is what any intelligent person would do. So many lies from people that just want to save animals at all costs.
  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,213 Member
    Here's one of the statements made in the video that I'd like to examine. It was made by Michael Greger at just past 14minutes in.

    "When we eat these kind of dead meat bacteria toxins, within minutes we get this burst of inflammation within your system such that you basically paralyze your arteries...get this stiffening in the arteries...their inability to relax normally in half. So it's not like decades down the road eating unhealthy there'll be some damage, no we're talking damage right then and there within minutes of it going into our mouth."

    It caught my attention because my husband has a strange reaction to beef and perhaps other sources of saturated fat, his blood pressure goes up. He's an odd duck because he's got a reasonably low bf%, very fit, very rarely stressed, but fights high blood pressure. Both his parents started taking blood pressure medication around his age, so there's definitely a genetic component.

    Anyone know if there is any validity whatsoever to Greger's statement, even if only for a small percentage of the population?
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
    goldthistime wrote: »
    Here's one of the statements made in the video that I'd like to examine. It was made by Michael Greger at just past 14minutes in.

    "When we eat these kind of dead meat bacteria toxins, within minutes we get this burst of inflammation within your system such that you basically paralyze your arteries...get this stiffening in the arteries...their inability to relax normally in half. So it's not like decades down the road eating unhealthy there'll be some damage, no we're talking damage right then and there within minutes of it going into our mouth."

    It caught my attention because my husband has a strange reaction to beef and perhaps other sources of saturated fat, his blood pressure goes up. He's an odd duck because he's got a reasonably low bf%, very fit, very rarely stressed, but fights high blood pressure. Both his parents started taking blood pressure medication around his age, so there's definitely a genetic component.

    Anyone know if there is any validity whatsoever to Greger's statement, even if only for a small percentage of the population?

    I'm going to say no.

    Although I think some people are especially sensitive to cholesterol and saturated fats which mean they're at high risk for high blood pressure, coronary heart disease, heart attack, and stroke.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,413 Member
    goldthistime wrote: »
    Here's one of the statements made in the video that I'd like to examine. It was made by Michael Greger at just past 14minutes in.

    "When we eat these kind of dead meat bacteria toxins, within minutes we get this burst of inflammation within your system such that you basically paralyze your arteries...get this stiffening in the arteries...their inability to relax normally in half. So it's not like decades down the road eating unhealthy there'll be some damage, no we're talking damage right then and there within minutes of it going into our mouth."

    It caught my attention because my husband has a strange reaction to beef and perhaps other sources of saturated fat, his blood pressure goes up. He's an odd duck because he's got a reasonably low bf%, very fit, very rarely stressed, but fights high blood pressure. Both his parents started taking blood pressure medication around his age, so there's definitely a genetic component.

    Anyone know if there is any validity whatsoever to Greger's statement, even if only for a small percentage of the population?

    Why don't you guys do the experiment? Go plant-based for a year and let us know how his numbers do. (?) I mean, in the end it doesn't matter what anyone else says. If he has noticeable health issues, it makes sense to stop eating whatever-it-is that may be causing it, yes?
  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,213 Member
    edited July 2017
    cmriverside wrote: »
    goldthistime wrote: »
    Here's one of the statements made in the video that I'd like to examine. It was made by Michael Greger at just past 14minutes in.

    "When we eat these kind of dead meat bacteria toxins, within minutes we get this burst of inflammation within your system such that you basically paralyze your arteries...get this stiffening in the arteries...their inability to relax normally in half. So it's not like decades down the road eating unhealthy there'll be some damage, no we're talking damage right then and there within minutes of it going into our mouth."

    It caught my attention because my husband has a strange reaction to beef and perhaps other sources of saturated fat, his blood pressure goes up. He's an odd duck because he's got a reasonably low bf%, very fit, very rarely stressed, but fights high blood pressure. Both his parents started taking blood pressure medication around his age, so there's definitely a genetic component.

    Anyone know if there is any validity whatsoever to Greger's statement, even if only for a small percentage of the population?

    Why don't you guys do the experiment? Go plant-based for a year and let us know how his numbers do. (?) I mean, in the end it doesn't matter what anyone else says. If he has noticeable health issues, it makes sense to stop eating whatever-it-is that may be causing it, yes?

    He did this experiment about five years ago. He wasn't monitoring his blood pressure then so we didn't get instant feedback, but he brought his cholesterol numbers way down. He followed Esselstyne's advice in Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease, basically a low fat vegan diet. But he also lost weight. I argued that it may well have been the weight loss that brought about the better numbers, that it didn't prove it was the diet per se.

    We reintroduced meat. His cholesterol numbers went up a little but his weight also went up a little. His weight gain may well have happened without reintroducing meat, his weight drop had been a little extreme. We're still experimenting. Obviously medication is an option and perhaps an eventuality but he would prefer to delay taking them.

    ETA He just recently stopped eating beef. We saw the association between eating beef and higher BP maybe 4 or 5 times. Not enough that we could be positive it wasn't just coincidence, but enough that he's done experimenting with beef. He's still eating chicken.

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