Netflix Documentary "What the Health" by Kip Andersen
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goldthistime
Posts: 3,214 Member
I just finished watching this (advocates veganism) and came here to see if there it has been discussed. I saw a few references but didn't want to hijack someone else's thread. Has anyone else watched this? My take away was that there were some interesting points but there were times when it felt as though Kip was purposely misrepresenting the facts (I thought he used the word "meat" when studies were specifically about "processed meat" for instance), cherry picking of studies, and tinfoil hat thinking (AHA, AMA etc are funded by pharmaceutical firms and meat/dairy farmers so cannot be trusted).
Yet, there were some things I'd like to follow up on in considering the kind of diet that will be the most healthful for me in the future. I'm frankly not willing to consider giving up meat/dairy at the present time because protein has such a big impact on my feelings of satiety, but perhaps by next year. Gives me some time to think about it.
Here's a youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjwefkc5lPE
Here's one viewpoint on the documentary:
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/documentary-details-largest-health-cover-up
I know there have been a wide variety of veganism threads already, but feel free to weigh in on the topic (i.e. is veganism the healthiest diet) even if you don't want to watch the documentary.
Yet, there were some things I'd like to follow up on in considering the kind of diet that will be the most healthful for me in the future. I'm frankly not willing to consider giving up meat/dairy at the present time because protein has such a big impact on my feelings of satiety, but perhaps by next year. Gives me some time to think about it.
Here's a youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjwefkc5lPEHere's one viewpoint on the documentary:
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/documentary-details-largest-health-cover-up
I know there have been a wide variety of veganism threads already, but feel free to weigh in on the topic (i.e. is veganism the healthiest diet) even if you don't want to watch the documentary.
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From what I've been reading on the internet about it, it's pretty bunk and poorly done and pretty much is just about pushing an agenda. He's also the same one who did Cowspiracy which was also a badly done documentary. There's nothing wrong with opting for a vegan diet or deciding the way farm animals are treated are done so humanely from birth to death, but you've got to get the facts first. Farmers and ranchers are far better sources of said information than a biased documentary and a far better starting place. Especially since so many of them now are taking to social media to show people what exactly it is they do every day.13
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I find that Netflix food documentaries are nearly always either selling a product or selling irrational fear. They're all pretty bad.22
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I tried watching it and couldn't even make it half way through because of the way it was skewed and presented. It left me feeling cringy and wanting some bacon.15
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Documentaries are entertainment. They are under no obligation to tell both sides of the story, so they can cherry pick interviews and evidence. They show dramatic personal stories to try to get you emotionally invested. I made a decision to stop watching them because they'd get me all worked up for no reason.
Humans have been eating animal products from the beginning. We are biologically omnivores. I suspect many SAD eaters would be healthier if they ate less meat, but I've never seen evidence that we would be healthier as vegetarians or vegans.8 -
I didn't really address the rest of your post. I think that veganism like many diets can be healthy or unhealthy. I think that it takes research and understanding to be done right and ensure that you are getting a good nutritional profile from you diet, just like any diet.2
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Here's another critical piece/podcast:
https://vinnietortorich.com/2017/06/debunking-what-the-health-in-detail-episode-847/
I saw a couple posts here from people who watched the documentary and decided to try veganism. I didn't want to interrupt the threads to criticize this documentary but I also felt that the content should be viewed with a fair amount of skepticism.
Having said that, there were things that were presented that made me want to do more research, and even consider veganism in the future. If we don't get anyone taking the other side of the discussion, tomorrow if I have time I'll go back and try to make some notes.1 -
I tried watching it but there wasn't one single zombie or car chase.
7 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.15 -
This documentary was as full of crap as processed food, I think most of the experts were actors. Diets are individual. I was done when they said sugar wasn't bad for you.....1
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Motorsheen wrote: »I tried watching it but there wasn't one single zombie or car chase.
7 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.
You need to keep watching. The zombies AND car chases are much later.13 -
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"“Too-thin vegans are eating animal flesh after all: their own.” Protein starvation leads to self-cannibalization."
That's a great line.
Author(s) make a lot of good points. Although the argument that if we're going to be ethical we shouldn't eat plants either because they communicate, and that there are ground up insects in candy bars and other foods that a vegan might eat so they're not truly vegan anyway...not so persuasive.1 -
macro4luv2 wrote: »This documentary was as full of crap as processed food, I think most of the experts were actors. Diets are individual. I was done when they said sugar wasn't bad for you.....
Is sugar bad for you? You must have been watching the other netflix documentaries as well.7 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »I tried watching it but there wasn't one single zombie or car chase.
7 minutes of my life that I'll never get back.
You need to keep watching. The zombies AND car chases are much later.
vegan zombies? ( we're safe from them, right? )
.... driving hybrids and electric cars?5 -
goldthistime wrote: »
"“Too-thin vegans are eating animal flesh after all: their own.” Protein starvation leads to self-cannibalization."
That's a great line.
Author(s) make a lot of good points. Although the argument that if we're going to be ethical we shouldn't eat plants either because they communicate, and that there are ground up insects in candy bars and other foods that a vegan might eat so they're not truly vegan anyway...not so persuasive.
It's true though. To survive you have to kill something, be that animals, plants or fungi. Just because they don't have higher brain function like mammals doesn't mean your broccoli wasn't alive until it was cut out of the ground. They grow, eat, reproduce, react to the world around them in a way. There were three more things that make something alive we learned about in biology but it's been a while.1 -
stevencloser wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »
"“Too-thin vegans are eating animal flesh after all: their own.” Protein starvation leads to self-cannibalization."
That's a great line.
Author(s) make a lot of good points. Although the argument that if we're going to be ethical we shouldn't eat plants either because they communicate, and that there are ground up insects in candy bars and other foods that a vegan might eat so they're not truly vegan anyway...not so persuasive.
It's true though. To survive you have to kill something, be that animals, plants or fungi. Just because they don't have higher brain function like mammals doesn't mean your broccoli wasn't alive until it was cut out of the ground. They grow, eat, reproduce, react to the world around them in a way. There were three more things that make something alive we learned about in biology but it's been a while.
It has more to do with sentience and not purposely causing harm to other living creatures capable of feeling pain and suffering. Veganism (as far as i'm concerned) is solely an ethical choice as it doesn't have any inherent health benefits over other adequately planned diets. If you don't think that killing another living creature capable of feeling pain and suffering is unethical, or that raising animals in horrendous living conditions/inseminating them/using their bodies and lives as a commodity is unethical, then the vegan diet isn't for you and there's no reason to force yourself to change your diet.
Regardless, vegan doesn't have to mean low-protein just like it doesn't have to mean "healthy".
The fact of the matter is ones diet cannot be healthy without accounting for total energy first and foremost, and then macronutrients and micronutrients. The overall spectrum of the diet must be nutritionally adequate AND you must be able to eat in a manner that is sustainable long-term for best results. Some people can do this and some people simply cannot.
You can achieve this on a vegan diet just like you can achieve this on a paleo diet, or a Standard western diet, or a keto diet, or whatever else diet you wish to consume. It's also easy to eat an unhealthy diet while subscribing to any of these particular ways of eating.
At the end of the day a vegan diet can work for almost anyone assuming they've done the research and know how to plan appropriately. You can read more here:
http://jacknorrisrd.com/
http://www.theveganrd.com/
https://vegetariannutrition.net/find-a-registered-dietitian/
Make sure you're getting real information from the right sources. Just like with any other diet there's plenty of woo woo out there (80/10/10, starch solution, rt4, fruititarianism, raw diet, etc.). It's important for vegans especially to be weary about any information that doesn't fit in with the general scientific consensus as it's easy to accidentally miss-out on key nutrients (vitamin b, iron, folate, calcium, and the amino acids lysine and leucine especially) if they aren't planning accordingly.
But don't be under the assumption that being vegan means it's automatically more healthy than literally any other diet. We can't judge a diet based on individual ingredients, perceived "healthiness", etc. without taking into account one's overall dietary intake. Veganism also doesn't dictate a macronutrient ratio or micronutrient spectrum.8 -
I'm several months into the process of transitioning to a whole foods, plant based diet and while I think there's definite health benefits to eating lots of veggies/fruit, beans, seeds and nuts etc, I also take these kinds of documentaries with a large dose of skepticism. I'm loosely following Dr. Fuhrman's plan, who advocates a whole foods, plant based diet, and even he acknowledges that there's no legitimate research currently available that proves a completely animal free diet is any healthier than one that still includes some meat.
And like Rainbowbow said-the term vegan is an ethical one and it goes way beyond food choices. Even if I get to the point where I'm completely plant based I'd never label myself a vegan because I don't have the ethical convictions that a vegan does in regards to animal welfare issues, (I grew up on a farm and have a different perspective on that whole topic). I'd just be someone that eats a plant based diet, no further labeling needed.4 -
McGreggor and others are animal rights activists disguised at people that care about your health. McGreggor even works for the Humane Society.
They want the world to become vegetarians and will make up lies such as meat causes diabetes amd osteoporosis !!!1 -
Most documentaries are going to be biased. While many bring out great points of view and information for their agenda, many times they grossly exaggerate what they oppose.
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My "save the animals" argument has always been:
How many animals and trees die in order to plant vast food crops over huge areas of land? Never mind the pesticides which mess up the ecosystem in general, but how about all the ground dwelling creatures that are killed by modern farm machines and lack of habitat? I don't think anyones' hands are clean. If we eat, other things die to make that happen. We were given dominion over the animals of the earth. It's not a pretty story - but then humans are pretty awful in general.3 -
cmriverside wrote: »My "save the animals" argument has always been:
How many animals and trees die in order to plant vast food crops over huge areas of land? Never mind the pesticides which mess up the ecosystem in general, but how about all the ground dwelling creatures that are killed by modern farm machines and lack of habitat? I don't think anyones' hands are clean. If we eat, other things die to make that happen. We were given dominion over the animals of the earth. It's not a pretty story - but then humans are pretty awful in general.
I just want to point out that it's actually significantly better for the environment to consume crops than to consume animals. Especially beef which also releases a significant amount of methane in our atmosphere.
I know you want to have a world-view that opposes that, but it just makes sense that growing animals is less efficient than growing crops. You have to have land for animals to live on, you have to feed and water animals food and water... we could be eating.
I think it's important (not from an ethical view point but from a logical one) to atleast reduce red-meat consumption as far as the environment is concerned along with doing everything we can to fight for legislation that falls in line with renewable energy, less fossil fuel based transportation, less waste and fresh water in agriculture and industrial sectors, less fracking or polluting of fresh water sources, recycling when possible, reducing our ac/heating when not necessary, and reducing the purchasing of certain items (like plastic water bottles) which are disposable.
We weren't given dominion over the planet, and at some point we're more than likely going to have to reap some serious consequences for our actions.16
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