Does Obesity Cause Inflammation? Or Is It the Other Way Around?

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  • DevotedToDASH
    DevotedToDASH Posts: 60 Member
    edited July 2017
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    singingflutelady wrote: »
    DevotedToDASH wrote: »
    MRI doesn't use radiation btw

    It does, it's just non-ionizing radiation... and the jury is still out on whether that's a cancer risk. Had that discussion recently with a dr that wanted to do an MRA. Had the test because it was necessary to rule out the need for surgery. Probably wouldn't have if it wasn't integral to ruling out a life-threatening problem.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
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    jennpinklady wrote: »
    Never give up.....people do not know you personally in this forum! Keep trying and do your best. Just a suggestion.....try just eating potatoes for 1 month, they contain all 9 amino acids and protein. See how you feel. :)

    It would take an awful lot of potatoes to get the minimum amount of protein required as they only have 2g per 100 calories.
  • DevotedToDASH
    DevotedToDASH Posts: 60 Member
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    @singingflutelady - thank you for sharing that link. It will likely be another year or two, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it "become a thing" .

    To clarify yet a few other things... my weight doesn't really fluctuate more than a pound or two day to day. I am aware that is within the norm for water weight gain. However, if I eat something with refined sugar - which, as you will see from my food logs - I just don't do very often, that will cause me to retain anywhere from 5-8 pounds of water weight, which will go away relatively quickly as long as I'm not a repeat offender (it's not worth the discomfort). The assumed lipedema is totally different. It is completely non responsive to diuresis, follows a pattern of lessening overnight, but it's right back to where it was within an hour of rising if I'm not wearing compression hosiery (which, btw, is extremely painful to get on and uncomfortable to wear) and was there, albeit to a lesser degree even when I was down to 140 lbs.

    I think what makes me laugh at this point is how many people that know me would tell you how healthy I really do eat and how good my portion control is. But I digress... that wasn't the point of this post.
  • Alatariel75
    Alatariel75 Posts: 17,959 Member
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    jennpinklady wrote: »
    Never give up.....people do not know you personally in this forum! Keep trying and do your best. Just a suggestion.....try just eating potatoes for 1 month, they contain all 9 amino acids and protein. See how you feel. :)

    I'm predicting bored silly.
  • Alatariel75
    Alatariel75 Posts: 17,959 Member
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    DevotedToDASH wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    DevotedToDASH wrote: »
    MRI doesn't use radiation btw

    It does, it's just non-ionizing radiation... and the jury is still out on whether that's a cancer risk. Had that discussion recently with a dr that wanted to do an MRA. Had the test because it was necessary to rule out the need for surgery. Probably wouldn't have if it wasn't integral to ruling out a life-threatening problem.

    Um, I have them yearly. They don't use radiation.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
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    DevotedToDASH wrote: »
    @singingflutelady - thank you for sharing that link. It will likely be another year or two, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it "become a thing" .

    To clarify yet a few other things... my weight doesn't really fluctuate more than a pound or two day to day. I am aware that is within the norm for water weight gain. However, if I eat something with refined sugar - which, as you will see from my food logs - I just don't do very often, that will cause me to retain anywhere from 5-8 pounds of water weight, which will go away relatively quickly as long as I'm not a repeat offender (it's not worth the discomfort). The assumed lipedema is totally different. It is completely non responsive to diuresis, follows a pattern of lessening overnight, but it's right back to where it was within an hour of rising if I'm not wearing compression hosiery (which, btw, is extremely painful to get on and uncomfortable to wear) and was there, albeit to a lesser degree even when I was down to 140 lbs.

    I think what makes me laugh at this point is how many people that know me would tell you how healthy I really do eat and how good my portion control is. But I digress... that wasn't the point of this post.

    I'm pretty sure it won't "become a thing" in the gastroenterologist world in the next few years. I read a lot of research as I have a gi disease that causes "leaky gut" (but not in the leaky gut sense) and leaky gut syndrome is not the direction it seems to be going.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited July 2017
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    DevotedToDASH wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    DevotedToDASH wrote: »
    MRI doesn't use radiation btw

    It does, it's just non-ionizing radiation... and the jury is still out on whether that's a cancer risk. Had that discussion recently with a dr that wanted to do an MRA. Had the test because it was necessary to rule out the need for surgery. Probably wouldn't have if it wasn't integral to ruling out a life-threatening problem.

    I have a benign brain tumor and need MRIs yearly to scan it. They do no shielding of any organs when I have them like they do when I have x-rays for any radiation.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    How would it take $600 for an office visit to your GP?
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    OP, why don't you start looking for some research to challenge your beliefs instead of research to support them?

    You might start making some progress then.

    I suggest reading Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Stephan Guyenet, and James Krieger just for a start. I'm sure others would have some excellent suggestions.

    This advice is so key to science moving forward. In the end one can modify his or her position or have more evidence they were correct in their initial position.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
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    https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28613268

    Nutrients. 2017 Jun 14;9(6). pii: E607. doi: 10.3390/nu9060607.
    Vitamin E Modifies High-Fat Diet-Induced Increase of DNA Strand Breaks, and Changes in Expression and DNA Methylation of Dnmt1 and MLH1 in C57BL/6J Male Mice.

    "Obesity is associated with low-grade inflammation, increased ROS production and DNA damage........."
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    How would it take $600 for an office visit to your GP?

    Nevermind. I was wrong. I see the diagnosis is more involved that this, but ...

    OP, you are self-diagnosing and making excuses.

    You are being specific about naming this condition and vague about naming others that you have and making one excuse after another.

    You can lose weight like everyone else can if you stop making excuses and start looking for real answers.

    And as OP admits, she maintains on 1800 calories. There is absolutely no good reason other than impatience that she could lose 1lb per week eating 1300.
  • DevotedToDASH
    DevotedToDASH Posts: 60 Member
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    How would it take $600 for an office visit to your GP?
    You are being specific about naming this condition and vague about naming others that you have and making one excuse after another.

    You can lose weight like everyone else can if you stop making excuses and start looking for real answers.

    Respectfully I disagree with this. I've named Hashimoto's, IBS, and hypertension, as well as an arrhythmic disorder, which cannot be distinctively classified (which is why the WHO allows for a diagnosis to be "Not Otherwise Classified"). If you would like the complete laundry list, let me know and we can talk - it's about 30 items long and they are ALL DIAGNOSED. Perhaps you, in your seemingly infinite wisdom, can explain why I don't respond typically to blood pressure medication - three doctors couldn't until I brought in a stack of journal articles linking hypothyroidism and abnormal capillary size to hypertension and had my regimen completely changed. Am I an outlier? Definitely. Science, nor medicine, is exact. What works for 5 million may not work for one because of a unique combination of factors. Why do you think research is done, for god's sake. To find what works when other things don't.

    If everyone could lose weight as simply and easily as many of you who have been successful could, there would not be millions of people in the world with true fat disorders. People with fat disorders like lipedema or Dercum's would be as slim and toned as anyone else. Hundreds of thousands of dollars would not be spent every year by people who can only get rid of stubborn fat through medical procedures, risking infection, disfigurement or death.

    Your earlier comment about having my PCP diagnose this - this is not what PCPs do... anymore than they diagnose cancer or COPD or bipolar disorder. $600 is the going rate for a consultation with a specialist when insurance won't cover it.

    Your last words about looking for real answers made me laugh. That is exactly what I AM doing. But because you don't like the fact that I don't agree with your simplistic answer, you've decided to discount my original question. This is the last time I'll address whether I can lose any weight, I've never denied I could - and I know I will. But when I hit that wall again because of this inflamed fat that does not respond to calorie deficits, I hope I will have found others who have found ways around or over that wall. You are not one of them and while I appreciate your initial input, please stay on topic for my OP. A polite "that's not been my experience" followed by what your experience has been would have sufficed.



  • dutchandkiwi
    dutchandkiwi Posts: 1,389 Member
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    singingflutelady wrote: »
    DevotedToDASH wrote: »
    try2again wrote: »

    This confuses me... the same calorie amount causes you to gain OR lose slowly? That makes no sense. It would seem you have to be confusing your water retention with fat gain. (As has been pointed out, a person's fat loss can easily be masked by water retention, even a substantial amount.) But ultimately, if you can lose at 1200, albeit more slowly than you might like, you can lose.

    How many calories do you eat when you're not restricting? If you were gaining body fat on 1200 calories, it would seem the weight would pile on at an outrageous rate at a normal calorie level.

    I realize this was not the issue you posted about. Usually, posters will attempt to clarify an issue like this for the benefit of others who may casually read it and think, "Oh, see there- not everyone can lose weight!" I don't think we know everything there is to know about weight loss, but in the vast majority of cases (like, really vast), the problem boils down to very ordinary, fixable issues. Hope you can find a way to progress. :)

    If what you're asking is whether I know how much of my excess weight is fat - no. Average calorie intake is typically between 1500-1800 calories with occasional splurges (a dinner out with wine or dessert once a month). Because of my body habitus (and what I'm supposing is lipoedema) biometric impedance is not accurate since it bases water composition on what registers in the legs (or arms if they're doing arm-leg studies) and mine definitely carry more water than the rest of my body proportionately. I don't float easily in water, which I've been told indicates more water than fat, but to my knowledge, only full body imaging like MRI or DEXA would give really accurate results. The radiation risk isn't worth it to me. I once asked a physician how much excess water weight I was likely carrying around and they guessed about 45-50 pounds... nothing like the 3-4 lbs most women intermittently gain or lose.

    To clarify the 1200 calories and losing slowly or gaining - it most definitely depends on exactly what I'm eating, what time of year it is, what medications I'm on, and at that point in time, what time of the month it was, as well as what my last meal was. Summer heat is an automatic 10-15 pound weight gain. SSRIs or beta blockers can add another 10, but I occasionally need them to deal with PTSD. And while I hate pointing to sugar again, eating a protein bar is the same as eating half a candy bar and can cause me a 5 lb water weight gain that doesn't go away in a week. Imagine a life with a full schedule and without any processed or fast foods and perhaps you'll get a better understanding of what I am trying to figure out.

    Let's be honest. When people look at an overweight person, they're not considering whether it's water or fat that's making them "fluffy"... and when I get on a scale or try to do something that my size doesn't allow me to do, I just want to be a more normal weight. Figuring out how to get there in a world where the "rules" don't work for you isn't fun, but I will figure it out. Hopefully, eating clean and vegetarian will help - or at least provide me another thing to cross off my list of trials and errors.

    MRI doesn't use radiation btw
    singingflutelady is very very right So that would be a case of having one now?

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