Does Obesity Cause Inflammation? Or Is It the Other Way Around?
Replies
-
Never give up.....people do not know you personally in this forum! Keep trying and do your best. Just a suggestion.....try just eating potatoes for 1 month, they contain all 9 amino acids and protein. See how you feel.
11 -
singingflutelady wrote: »DevotedToDASH wrote: »MRI doesn't use radiation btw
It does, it's just non-ionizing radiation... and the jury is still out on whether that's a cancer risk. Had that discussion recently with a dr that wanted to do an MRA. Had the test because it was necessary to rule out the need for surgery. Probably wouldn't have if it wasn't integral to ruling out a life-threatening problem.0 -
jennpinklady wrote: »Never give up.....people do not know you personally in this forum! Keep trying and do your best. Just a suggestion.....try just eating potatoes for 1 month, they contain all 9 amino acids and protein. See how you feel.
It would take an awful lot of potatoes to get the minimum amount of protein required as they only have 2g per 100 calories.
1 -
@singingflutelady - thank you for sharing that link. It will likely be another year or two, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it "become a thing" .
To clarify yet a few other things... my weight doesn't really fluctuate more than a pound or two day to day. I am aware that is within the norm for water weight gain. However, if I eat something with refined sugar - which, as you will see from my food logs - I just don't do very often, that will cause me to retain anywhere from 5-8 pounds of water weight, which will go away relatively quickly as long as I'm not a repeat offender (it's not worth the discomfort). The assumed lipedema is totally different. It is completely non responsive to diuresis, follows a pattern of lessening overnight, but it's right back to where it was within an hour of rising if I'm not wearing compression hosiery (which, btw, is extremely painful to get on and uncomfortable to wear) and was there, albeit to a lesser degree even when I was down to 140 lbs.
I think what makes me laugh at this point is how many people that know me would tell you how healthy I really do eat and how good my portion control is. But I digress... that wasn't the point of this post.4 -
jennpinklady wrote: »Never give up.....people do not know you personally in this forum! Keep trying and do your best. Just a suggestion.....try just eating potatoes for 1 month, they contain all 9 amino acids and protein. See how you feel.
I'm predicting bored silly.4 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »DevotedToDASH wrote: »MRI doesn't use radiation btw
It does, it's just non-ionizing radiation... and the jury is still out on whether that's a cancer risk. Had that discussion recently with a dr that wanted to do an MRA. Had the test because it was necessary to rule out the need for surgery. Probably wouldn't have if it wasn't integral to ruling out a life-threatening problem.
Um, I have them yearly. They don't use radiation.2 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »@singingflutelady - thank you for sharing that link. It will likely be another year or two, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it "become a thing" .
To clarify yet a few other things... my weight doesn't really fluctuate more than a pound or two day to day. I am aware that is within the norm for water weight gain. However, if I eat something with refined sugar - which, as you will see from my food logs - I just don't do very often, that will cause me to retain anywhere from 5-8 pounds of water weight, which will go away relatively quickly as long as I'm not a repeat offender (it's not worth the discomfort). The assumed lipedema is totally different. It is completely non responsive to diuresis, follows a pattern of lessening overnight, but it's right back to where it was within an hour of rising if I'm not wearing compression hosiery (which, btw, is extremely painful to get on and uncomfortable to wear) and was there, albeit to a lesser degree even when I was down to 140 lbs.
I think what makes me laugh at this point is how many people that know me would tell you how healthy I really do eat and how good my portion control is. But I digress... that wasn't the point of this post.
I'm pretty sure it won't "become a thing" in the gastroenterologist world in the next few years. I read a lot of research as I have a gi disease that causes "leaky gut" (but not in the leaky gut sense) and leaky gut syndrome is not the direction it seems to be going.1 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »DevotedToDASH wrote: »MRI doesn't use radiation btw
It does, it's just non-ionizing radiation... and the jury is still out on whether that's a cancer risk. Had that discussion recently with a dr that wanted to do an MRA. Had the test because it was necessary to rule out the need for surgery. Probably wouldn't have if it wasn't integral to ruling out a life-threatening problem.
I have a benign brain tumor and need MRIs yearly to scan it. They do no shielding of any organs when I have them like they do when I have x-rays for any radiation.0 -
How would it take $600 for an office visit to your GP?0
-
OP, why don't you start looking for some research to challenge your beliefs instead of research to support them?
You might start making some progress then.
I suggest reading Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Stephan Guyenet, and James Krieger just for a start. I'm sure others would have some excellent suggestions.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »OP, why don't you start looking for some research to challenge your beliefs instead of research to support them?
You might start making some progress then.
I suggest reading Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Stephan Guyenet, and James Krieger just for a start. I'm sure others would have some excellent suggestions.
This advice is so key to science moving forward. In the end one can modify his or her position or have more evidence they were correct in their initial position.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »How would it take $600 for an office visit to your GP?
Nevermind. I was wrong. I see the diagnosis is more involved that this, but ...
OP, you are self-diagnosing and making excuses.
You are being specific about naming this condition and vague about naming others that you have and making one excuse after another.
You can lose weight like everyone else can if you stop making excuses and start looking for real answers.5 -
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28613268
Nutrients. 2017 Jun 14;9(6). pii: E607. doi: 10.3390/nu9060607.
Vitamin E Modifies High-Fat Diet-Induced Increase of DNA Strand Breaks, and Changes in Expression and DNA Methylation of Dnmt1 and MLH1 in C57BL/6J Male Mice.
"Obesity is associated with low-grade inflammation, increased ROS production and DNA damage........."0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »How would it take $600 for an office visit to your GP?
Nevermind. I was wrong. I see the diagnosis is more involved that this, but ...
OP, you are self-diagnosing and making excuses.
You are being specific about naming this condition and vague about naming others that you have and making one excuse after another.
You can lose weight like everyone else can if you stop making excuses and start looking for real answers.
And as OP admits, she maintains on 1800 calories. There is absolutely no good reason other than impatience that she could lose 1lb per week eating 1300.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
You are being specific about naming this condition and vague about naming others that you have and making one excuse after another.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »How would it take $600 for an office visit to your GP?
You can lose weight like everyone else can if you stop making excuses and start looking for real answers.
Respectfully I disagree with this. I've named Hashimoto's, IBS, and hypertension, as well as an arrhythmic disorder, which cannot be distinctively classified (which is why the WHO allows for a diagnosis to be "Not Otherwise Classified"). If you would like the complete laundry list, let me know and we can talk - it's about 30 items long and they are ALL DIAGNOSED. Perhaps you, in your seemingly infinite wisdom, can explain why I don't respond typically to blood pressure medication - three doctors couldn't until I brought in a stack of journal articles linking hypothyroidism and abnormal capillary size to hypertension and had my regimen completely changed. Am I an outlier? Definitely. Science, nor medicine, is exact. What works for 5 million may not work for one because of a unique combination of factors. Why do you think research is done, for god's sake. To find what works when other things don't.
If everyone could lose weight as simply and easily as many of you who have been successful could, there would not be millions of people in the world with true fat disorders. People with fat disorders like lipedema or Dercum's would be as slim and toned as anyone else. Hundreds of thousands of dollars would not be spent every year by people who can only get rid of stubborn fat through medical procedures, risking infection, disfigurement or death.
Your earlier comment about having my PCP diagnose this - this is not what PCPs do... anymore than they diagnose cancer or COPD or bipolar disorder. $600 is the going rate for a consultation with a specialist when insurance won't cover it.
Your last words about looking for real answers made me laugh. That is exactly what I AM doing. But because you don't like the fact that I don't agree with your simplistic answer, you've decided to discount my original question. This is the last time I'll address whether I can lose any weight, I've never denied I could - and I know I will. But when I hit that wall again because of this inflamed fat that does not respond to calorie deficits, I hope I will have found others who have found ways around or over that wall. You are not one of them and while I appreciate your initial input, please stay on topic for my OP. A polite "that's not been my experience" followed by what your experience has been would have sufficed.
2 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
You are being specific about naming this condition and vague about naming others that you have and making one excuse after another.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »How would it take $600 for an office visit to your GP?
You can lose weight like everyone else can if you stop making excuses and start looking for real answers.
Respectfully I disagree with this. I've named Hashimoto's, IBS, and hypertension, as well as an arrhythmic disorder, which cannot be distinctively classified (which is why the WHO allows for a diagnosis to be "Not Otherwise Classified"). If you would like the complete laundry list, let me know and we can talk - it's about 30 items long and they are ALL DIAGNOSED. Perhaps you, in your seemingly infinite wisdom, can explain why I don't respond typically to blood pressure medication - three doctors couldn't until I brought in a stack of journal articles linking hypothyroidism and abnormal capillary size to hypertension and had my regimen completely changed. Am I an outlier? Definitely. Science, nor medicine, is exact. What works for 5 million may not work for one because of a unique combination of factors. Why do you think research is done, for god's sake. To find what works when other things don't.
If everyone could lose weight as simply and easily as many of you who have been successful could, there would not be millions of people in the world with true fat disorders. People with fat disorders like lipedema or Dercum's would be as slim and toned as anyone else. Hundreds of thousands of dollars would not be spent every year by people who can only get rid of stubborn fat through medical procedures, risking infection, disfigurement or death.
Your earlier comment about having my PCP diagnose this - this is not what PCPs do... anymore than they diagnose cancer or COPD or bipolar disorder. $600 is the going rate for a consultation with a specialist when insurance won't cover it.
Your last words about looking for real answers made me laugh. That is exactly what I AM doing. But because you don't like the fact that I don't agree with your simplistic answer, you've decided to discount my original question. This is the last time I'll address whether I can lose any weight, I've never denied I could - and I know I will. But when I hit that wall again because of this inflamed fat that does not respond to calorie deficits, I hope I will have found others who have found ways around or over that wall. You are not one of them and while I appreciate your initial input, please stay on topic for my OP. A polite "that's not been my experience" followed by what your experience has been would have sufficed.
Inflamed fat? Didn't know fat could become inflamed. Huh.6 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »The difference between lymphedema and lipedema - mine is nearly identical to the lipedema photo although I'm not that advanced, and nothing like the lymphedema photo. Note the difference in texture - this is the major distinguishing factor between the two, but not visually - rather by feel. The fat in lymphedema remains smooth. In lipedema the texture of the fat is completely different. It feels like lumps and bumps and tiny pellets...
and it is painful in a different way than the swelling of lymphedema.
Anyone who wants to chip in for the $650-$1000 that a diagnosis would cost me, let me know - I'll be happy to be diagnosed. Or if you know of a Dr local to me who can diagnose it that will do it for the cost of a regular office visit - give me a name and I'll make the appointment. I'm not looking for a diagnosis from anyone at MFP - please feel free to quote anywhere that I said I was.
That photo on the right looks very similar to my legs when I was morbidly obese. I do not have lipedema and after losing 60 pounds my legs no longer look like that. You either need to scrimp and save or hound your insurance to get checked out for Lipedema. Then you will know whether your problem is medical or too many calories. Trying to control inflammation or eating different types of food will not help either condition. You either need to control your calorie intake or get needed medical treatment.5 -
singingflutelady is very very right So that would be a case of having one now?singingflutelady wrote: »DevotedToDASH wrote: »
This confuses me... the same calorie amount causes you to gain OR lose slowly? That makes no sense. It would seem you have to be confusing your water retention with fat gain. (As has been pointed out, a person's fat loss can easily be masked by water retention, even a substantial amount.) But ultimately, if you can lose at 1200, albeit more slowly than you might like, you can lose.
How many calories do you eat when you're not restricting? If you were gaining body fat on 1200 calories, it would seem the weight would pile on at an outrageous rate at a normal calorie level.
I realize this was not the issue you posted about. Usually, posters will attempt to clarify an issue like this for the benefit of others who may casually read it and think, "Oh, see there- not everyone can lose weight!" I don't think we know everything there is to know about weight loss, but in the vast majority of cases (like, really vast), the problem boils down to very ordinary, fixable issues. Hope you can find a way to progress.
If what you're asking is whether I know how much of my excess weight is fat - no. Average calorie intake is typically between 1500-1800 calories with occasional splurges (a dinner out with wine or dessert once a month). Because of my body habitus (and what I'm supposing is lipoedema) biometric impedance is not accurate since it bases water composition on what registers in the legs (or arms if they're doing arm-leg studies) and mine definitely carry more water than the rest of my body proportionately. I don't float easily in water, which I've been told indicates more water than fat, but to my knowledge, only full body imaging like MRI or DEXA would give really accurate results. The radiation risk isn't worth it to me. I once asked a physician how much excess water weight I was likely carrying around and they guessed about 45-50 pounds... nothing like the 3-4 lbs most women intermittently gain or lose.
To clarify the 1200 calories and losing slowly or gaining - it most definitely depends on exactly what I'm eating, what time of year it is, what medications I'm on, and at that point in time, what time of the month it was, as well as what my last meal was. Summer heat is an automatic 10-15 pound weight gain. SSRIs or beta blockers can add another 10, but I occasionally need them to deal with PTSD. And while I hate pointing to sugar again, eating a protein bar is the same as eating half a candy bar and can cause me a 5 lb water weight gain that doesn't go away in a week. Imagine a life with a full schedule and without any processed or fast foods and perhaps you'll get a better understanding of what I am trying to figure out.
Let's be honest. When people look at an overweight person, they're not considering whether it's water or fat that's making them "fluffy"... and when I get on a scale or try to do something that my size doesn't allow me to do, I just want to be a more normal weight. Figuring out how to get there in a world where the "rules" don't work for you isn't fun, but I will figure it out. Hopefully, eating clean and vegetarian will help - or at least provide me another thing to cross off my list of trials and errors.
MRI doesn't use radiation btw
0 -
Honestly it seems to me that you just want to argue that *woe is me, my problems are so oooooo difficult.*
I get that you have some health issues - MOST if not all of which would be helped by weight loss.
You lose weight by eating less. Full Stop.
Log. Your. Food. Stay around 1400-1500 for two months. Log every bit.
Arguing doesn't burn calories.
7 -
I was reading some lipedema weight loss success stories. None of these people hit walls where their losses just stopped and failed to progress, though some found progress slow and some found that they could only have so much of an effect on their appearance due to the accumulated fat in their legs.
Though many of them did have liposuction, several did not.
All of them used diet and stressed the importance of exercise. One lady in particular was quite fond of the elliptical for being kind in terms of being less painful and she was singing the praises of strength training. She had fabulous results.
I'd suggest searching out some of these stories for yourself.9 -
jennybearlv wrote: »DevotedToDASH wrote: »The difference between lymphedema and lipedema - mine is nearly identical to the lipedema photo although I'm not that advanced, and nothing like the lymphedema photo. Note the difference in texture - this is the major distinguishing factor between the two, but not visually - rather by feel. The fat in lymphedema remains smooth. In lipedema the texture of the fat is completely different. It feels like lumps and bumps and tiny pellets...
and it is painful in a different way than the swelling of lymphedema.
Anyone who wants to chip in for the $650-$1000 that a diagnosis would cost me, let me know - I'll be happy to be diagnosed. Or if you know of a Dr local to me who can diagnose it that will do it for the cost of a regular office visit - give me a name and I'll make the appointment. I'm not looking for a diagnosis from anyone at MFP - please feel free to quote anywhere that I said I was.
That photo on the right looks very similar to my legs when I was morbidly obese. I do not have lipedema and after losing 60 pounds my legs no longer look like that. You either need to scrimp and save or hound your insurance to get checked out for Lipedema. Then you will know whether your problem is medical or too many calories. Trying to control inflammation or eating different types of food will not help either condition. You either need to control your calorie intake or get needed medical treatment.
I was thinking the same. Bumpy looking fat is quite common if you have lots to lose.
My ankles used to swell up after I'd been on my feet all day, too.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I was reading some lipedema weight loss success stories. None of these people hit walls where their losses just stopped and failed to progress, though some found progress slow and some found that they could only have so much of an effect on their appearance due to the accumulated fat in their legs.
The "wall" thing just sounds to me like all the other posts we see from people whose weight loss has stalled, which is almost always the result of inaccurate logging that becomes more apparent as their deficit shrinks, waning adherence, a change in activity level, etc.6 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »There are many more, but why waste any more of my time or yours?
There are four peer-reviewed links in your list - and not one of those links supports your position.
Not even one.
If you think they do, you need to read them more carefully.
5 -
To all who struggle with having your safe, comfortable beliefs challenged I can offer two thoughts... One is a favorite quote of mine from Chinese philospher Lao Tzu - "When the student is ready, the teacher will come." You're not ready to step out of your comfort zone or your own personal experience to consider that there are other possibilities. I get it. I've been through this before. I'm not anymore daunted than you are.
The second thing that comes to mine is that it's really a pleasure to get to know you... because it makes me feel even more strongly about my commitment to support others here in their searches for what works for them - which is exactly what I hope my friends here will do for me. The majority of this thread has had nothing to do with the OP. It's had to do with you trying your best to convince that I'm wrong and you're right... and it's not just in this post - it's what you do. And if that's what makes you feel good about yourself, yay for you. I get the distinct impression that now that you can feed your food cravings, you need to feed your egos. You see what you want to see, you interpret things to fit what you believe. You have all the correct answers. For many of you those answers will continue to work, but there may come a time when they don't work anymore. When that happens, I hope someone is around to give you the same advice you give so many others, just as you've given me - which is essentially - suck it up, buttercup. Eat less, move more, and if the weight isn't coming off, you're lying about something. (Nothing can be farther from the truth in some cases)
For anyone who is looking at this post and wants to know more about lipedema and inflammatory disorders related to obesity - these links are for you. I'm also happy to discuss inflammation and obesity, because I am still learning about how the two relate to each other. I'm still hoping at some point I can afford diagnosis and treatment for myself - it's a shame that here in the US it's still considered cosmetic, even though the rest of the world seems to have gotten in touch with the reality of the disorder... the rest of post certainly illustrates the narrow minded mentality that seems prevalent here.
Research and Recognition
nhs.uk/conditions/lipoedema/Pages/Introduction.aspx*****
lipedemaproject.org/
lipedema-simplified.org/resources.html
https://health.nokia.com/blog/2016/05/20/lipedema-disease-call-fat/
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4986968/
What if doctors understood the pain you feel with lipedema
fatdisorders.org/fat-disorders
treat.medicine.arizona.edu/
lipoedema.co.uk/
lipedema-simplified.org/resources.html
woundsinternational.com/media/issues/921/files/content_11243.pdfycauses"]webmd.com/women/guide/lipedema-symptoms-treatment-causes[/url]
escholarship.org/uc/item/89p692hq
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7972431
em-consulte.com/article/739481/alertePM
https://lymphnet.org/membersOnly/dl/reprint/Vol_24/Vol_24-N4_Lipedema&nutrition.pdf
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27075680
lipedemaproject.org/
lymphaticnetwork.org/news-events/lipedema-conference
obesityaction.org/educational-resources/resource-articles-2/obesity-related-diseases/lipedeam-and-obesitylivestrong.com/blog/lipedema-fat-storing-disease-immune-diet-exercise/
Anecdotal stories - if you read nothing else, read the first one.
https://cheyenneslipedemajourney.com/author/cbrinson12/page/2/
xojane.com/healthy/lipedema
https://lipladyfab.com/2016/02/06/the-top-10-fitness-tips-for-lipedema-weight-loss/
lipedema-simplified.org/about.html
https://pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20160927/2826088522980144 -
Re: MRIs and radiation -
pediaa.com/difference-between-ionizing-and-nonionizing-radiation/
and
iarc.fr/en/media-centre/pr/2011/pdfs/pr208_E.pdf
5 -
Enter your details into MFP
Select sedentary as your activity level.
Select to lose 1 lb/week
See the calories that MFP gives you ... eat that amount of calories.
Get a food scale to weigh all your food to ensure that your calorie count is accurate.
If possible, start to exercise ... even just a slow walk.
Do that consistently, meticulously and absolutely for the next 6 weeks ... you will lose weight.
Re-enter your details.
Do it for another 6 weeks, and you will lose more weight.
Isn't it exciting to know you have that much control!!
7 -
Um, inflammation is not the same thing as water retention.4
-
-
fatty liver remedies that work.
first: you get rid of fatty liver with tamarind. you can buy it fresh in Asian and Latino stores. It is a sweet-sour fruit that comes in pods. If you cannot get fresh then you can get it in jars as a fruit paste. Eat two or more every breakfast.
second: take milk thistle. gaia brand is probably the best as it is a liquid in a capsule.
third: stop eating junk food and fast food.
I get my remedies from ThatHealsThat.com2 -
DevotedToDASH wrote: »
Did you even read the link you provided? I don't understand what you are trying to clarify by posting this. You said that MRIs are not worth the radiation and this link essentially says that nonionizing radiation is harmless. If you feel differently, then you must also not ever watch tv, or use a microwave, or a cell phone, or listen to a radio?
I've read a lot of excuses from people in these forums before, but you seem to have all of them. The only thing that is preventing you from losing weight is you. You seem to be more concerned about finding excuses why you can't lose weight instead of actually putting in the work to do it. There is a reason losing weight is hard. It becomes impossible though if you are under the belief that your body somehow defies science. Do you gain weight if you go over your maintenance calories? Of course you do, and you would lose weight too if you were consistently under.6
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions