Cheese or No Cheese
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FYI I do know the differences. I want to see if someone of the belief that dairy is bad can EXPLAIN the difference and WHY these differences attribute to certain conditions. I did not want to test copy and paste skills.
That being said, this article makes very strong claims based upon correlation, not causation. I can do this to. Most people drive to work, working causes an increase in income, therefore, driving must be linked to an increase in income. See how that works.
Did you read the article? I guess you are just one of those stubborn people who hold fast to their convictions even though they are based on nothing other then "what I've always believed" type BS. I'm done trying to talk to you, there is no point and it just pisses me off. So have a nice day.0 -
Ok. If you want to ignore the facts and the information that I am trying to give you, then that is your problem. I didn't just come up with this to be difficult or cause a fight with you. So come back when you actually have something productive to say.
Fine how is this for productive?
What specifically is the difference between the composition of human milk and cow’s milk and what about those difference makes cow’s milk bad? If we just drink milk because the dairy industry tells us to, then why have civilizations been doing it for centuries, specifically isolated colonies like those in Africa? Further, if dairy is “linked” to all of the diseases and ailments that you have listed, why have these civilizations and colonies suffered from very few of them?
I think these are intelligent questions that given you position, your should be able to answer for me.
I'm not really sure what you are asking here. Human milk is absolutely perfect for human babies, but I'm sure you're not asking if you should be drinking that instead of cow's milk? (Although it would make more sense.)
Like I said before, cow's milk is designed to give infant cows the fuel they need to put on massive amounts of weight quickly. Human milk is designed to aid primarily in brain development. Among other differences, cow's milk has no antibodies, at least double the amount of protein, also which is less digestible. Different kinds of fat, also less digestible. Cows have 4 stomachs, remember?
I don't know anything about the isolated tribes of Africa and the goat milk they consume and how it affects their health. I am more concerned with the way dairy is protrayed as a necessary and healthy part of our diets in America.
"An article posted by U.S. News & World Report called 10 Things the Food Industry Doesn’t Want You to Know reveals, “The studies that food producers support tend to minimize health concerns associated with their products,” and that “of hundreds of studies that looked at the health effects of milk, juice, and soda, the likelihood of conclusions favorable to the industry was several times higher among industry-sponsored research than studies that received no industry funding.”
I'm just curious as to why you are so defensive about this. I used to think dairy was really healthy too until I started looking into myself. That is all I am asking of you. Have an open mind.
I am being open minded, that is why I asked those questions. I know there are difference between human milk and cow’s milk, my question is what specifically are those differences and how do those specific difference lead to the conditions you identified?
What I am getting at here is that I am doubtful, while not 100% certain, that you will not be able to provide or even find that information because many of these types of “studies” conclude with evidence based upon correlation without causation, which leads to blatantly bad information much like the popular ideas behind saturated fats.
That’s it, I am looking for the hard (causation) evidence that should convince me I am wrong.0 -
Life without cheese????:noway:
I eat cheese every day. I'll usually have a Babybel light or a Laughing Cow triangle as a snack (50 cals and bit of protein) but I LOVE more unusual varieties: We live very near a speciality food market, and they have a superb cheese counter which often discounts some produce by up to 70% when they need to get rid of it.
Today I got some blue wensleydale, and some spanish manchengo. I'll have a small portion of these as an evening snack, and for the good strong tasting varieties a little goes a long way.
Feta and haloumi are usually in my fridge too, great for adding to salads. And paremesan - a few curls on a pasta dish or over risotto are just wonderful.0 -
FYI I do know the differences. I want to see if someone of the belief that dairy is bad can EXPLAIN the difference and WHY these differences attribute to certain conditions. I did not want to test copy and paste skills.
That being said, this article makes very strong claims based upon correlation, not causation. I can do this to. Most people drive to work, working causes an increase in income, therefore, driving must be linked to an increase in income. See how that works.
Did you read the article? I guess you are just one of those stubborn people who hold fast to their convictions even though they are based on nothing other then "what I've always believed" type BS. I'm done trying to talk to you, there is no point and it just pisses me off. So have a nice day.
Yes, I read the article… it lacked causation. Good day.0 -
FYI I do know the differences. I want to see if someone of the belief that dairy is bad can EXPLAIN the difference and WHY these differences attribute to certain conditions. I did not want to test copy and paste skills.
That being said, this article makes very strong claims based upon correlation, not causation. I can do this to. Most people drive to work, working causes an increase in income, therefore, driving must be linked to an increase in income. See how that works.
Did you read the article? I guess you are just one of those stubborn people who hold fast to their convictions even though they are based on nothing other then "what I've always believed" type BS. I'm done trying to talk to you, there is no point and it just pisses me off. So have a nice day.
Yes, I read the article… it lacked causation. Good day.
“Milk is a contributing factor in constipation, chronic fatigue, arthritis, headaches, muscle cramps, obesity, allergies and heart problems.”
HOW does milk CAUSE these issues? This is my point, there is no causation, just correlation.0 -
I could never cut cheese, I love it too much and pretty much all my favorite foods have it. I would go insane because of the deprivation, lol. What I do is I watch my portions very closely. I've noticed that cheese makes food taste great even in small portions. So, for example, now I eat only half a slice of american cheese in my omelette instead of entire slice and it's only 30 calories. It tastes just as good as the complete slice so I don't really feel deprived
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Ok. If you want to ignore the facts and the information that I am trying to give you, then that is your problem. I didn't just come up with this to be difficult or cause a fight with you. So come back when you actually have something productive to say.
Fine how is this for productive?
What specifically is the difference between the composition of human milk and cow’s milk and what about those difference makes cow’s milk bad? If we just drink milk because the dairy industry tells us to, then why have civilizations been doing it for centuries, specifically isolated colonies like those in Africa? Further, if dairy is “linked” to all of the diseases and ailments that you have listed, why have these civilizations and colonies suffered from very few of them?
I think these are intelligent questions that given you position, your should be able to answer for me.
I'm not really sure what you are asking here. Human milk is absolutely perfect for human babies, but I'm sure you're not asking if you should be drinking that instead of cow's milk? (Although it would make more sense.)
Like I said before, cow's milk is designed to give infant cows the fuel they need to put on massive amounts of weight quickly. Human milk is designed to aid primarily in brain development. Among other differences, cow's milk has no antibodies, at least double the amount of protein, also which is less digestible. Different kinds of fat, also less digestible. Cows have 4 stomachs, remember?
I don't know anything about the isolated tribes of Africa and the goat milk they consume and how it affects their health. I am more concerned with the way dairy is protrayed as a necessary and healthy part of our diets in America.
"An article posted by U.S. News & World Report called 10 Things the Food Industry Doesn’t Want You to Know reveals, “The studies that food producers support tend to minimize health concerns associated with their products,” and that “of hundreds of studies that looked at the health effects of milk, juice, and soda, the likelihood of conclusions favorable to the industry was several times higher among industry-sponsored research than studies that received no industry funding.”
I'm just curious as to why you are so defensive about this. I used to think dairy was really healthy too until I started looking into myself. That is all I am asking of you. Have an open mind.
I am being open minded, that is why I asked those questions. I know there are difference between human milk and cow’s milk, my question is what specifically are those differences and how do those specific difference lead to the conditions you identified?
What I am getting at here is that I am doubtful, while not 100% certain, that you will not be able to provide or even find that information because many of these types of “studies” conclude with evidence based upon correlation without causation, which leads to blatantly bad information much like the popular ideas behind saturated fats.
That’s it, I am looking for the hard (causation) evidence that should convince me I am wrong.
Well you did ask what the difference was between human and cow milk.... I just answered.
As for why cow milk is bad - I do believe it has been pointed out quite a few times. Its made for babies. To give special enzymes, protiens, hormones to a GROWING COW! Not to mention - as said above- cows have 4 stomachs which helps them digest. We have one stomach -unless you are a freak of nature. So it is much more difficult to digest those enzymes. Lactose is rough on our digestive system and its also a sugar that causes other health issues such as weigh gain, headaches, skin problems and more!0 -
Fine how is this for productive?
What specifically is the difference between the composition of human milk and cow’s milk and what about those difference makes cow’s milk bad? If we just drink milk because the dairy industry tells us to, then why have civilizations been doing it for centuries, specifically isolated colonies like those in Africa? Further, if dairy is “linked” to all of the diseases and ailments that you have listed, why have these civilizations and colonies suffered from very few of them?
I think these are intelligent questions that given you position, your should be able to answer for me.
All other mammals consume their mothers milk as infants and are eventually weaned, usually after they have tripled their birth weight. It is nutritionally balanced for the development of that particular species. A baby calves are around 100lbs and can gain and additional 100lbs in the first few months. No other mammals continue to drink milk after the weaning stage and certainly never through adulthood. I don't anticipate any human to need that much fat.
Correction to your statement: The dairy industry doesn't tell us to drink milk, it tells us to drink MORE milk and that we NEED it. There is a large difference. Your lousy argument about African colonies is pathetic. I am sure there are many factors for their health and survival. You on the other hand have grocery stores and various amounts of choices regarding what you can eat. If there are other sources of calcium and fat, I am sure you could survive without milk. Have you really done studies on what their main cause of death is over in these unspecified colonies? Have you actually researched their full diets or have you simply picked out little passages to aid your argument?
The biggest difference in your we cook food, grow food, and have doing it for centuries argument and the reason some are saying it is harmful is the factor that abuse within the industry is rampant. I am sure isolated colonies in Africa, don't have factory farms with poor conditions for cows and workers alike. They probably don't use artificial insemination, hormones, drugs, physical abuse, and the desire to do whatever it takes to remain profitable. No, you claim they do it for survival. This is not survival, but cruelty. Just because other animals don't know how to create fire, doesn't mean we should lord over them and abuse their abilities for profit.
"Under natural conditions, a cow could live up to twenty-five years, but on today's modern dairy farms, cows survive only three to five years." As cited in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, over half will be killed before their fourth birthday.
This isn't to say you can't drink milk. Drink all the milk you want. When you become so blind that none of your "research" shows any repercussions of the dairy industry, I feel the desire to help you out. You may not find compassion for animals as a means to be more respectful with your diet, but at the very least be respectful of others beliefs.
Is that intelligent enough for you?0 -
“Milk is a contributing factor in constipation, chronic fatigue, arthritis, headaches, muscle cramps, obesity, allergies and heart problems.”
HOW does milk CAUSE these issues? This is my point, there is no causation, just correlation.
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Its what is IN the milk. The enzymes, fats, proteins and hormones. not to mention any added hormone by the dairy farm to help produce more milk! Also the lactose is another contributing factor to these issues.
I've read- will have to look for it again - but goats milk is better. Goats are considerably smaller than cows, so their babies don't need so much fat, protein and hormone that a baby cow does. Therefore if we drink said goat milk we too would consume far less of these fats, proteins and hormones.0 -
FYI I do know the differences. I want to see if someone of the belief that dairy is bad can EXPLAIN the difference and WHY these differences attribute to certain conditions. I did not want to test copy and paste skills.
That being said, this article makes very strong claims based upon correlation, not causation. I can do this to. Most people drive to work, working causes an increase in income, therefore, driving must be linked to an increase in income. See how that works.
Did you read the article? I guess you are just one of those stubborn people who hold fast to their convictions even though they are based on nothing other then "what I've always believed" type BS. I'm done trying to talk to you, there is no point and it just pisses me off. So have a nice day.
Yes, I read the article… it lacked causation. Good day.
“Milk is a contributing factor in constipation, chronic fatigue, arthritis, headaches, muscle cramps, obesity, allergies and heart problems.”
HOW does milk CAUSE these issues? This is my point, there is no causation, just correlation.
What CAUSES gravity? There's not causation, just correlation. Good day0 -
Ok. If you want to ignore the facts and the information that I am trying to give you, then that is your problem. I didn't just come up with this to be difficult or cause a fight with you. So come back when you actually have something productive to say.
Fine how is this for productive?
What specifically is the difference between the composition of human milk and cow’s milk and what about those difference makes cow’s milk bad? If we just drink milk because the dairy industry tells us to, then why have civilizations been doing it for centuries, specifically isolated colonies like those in Africa? Further, if dairy is “linked” to all of the diseases and ailments that you have listed, why have these civilizations and colonies suffered from very few of them?
I think these are intelligent questions that given you position, your should be able to answer for me.
I'm not really sure what you are asking here. Human milk is absolutely perfect for human babies, but I'm sure you're not asking if you should be drinking that instead of cow's milk? (Although it would make more sense.)
Like I said before, cow's milk is designed to give infant cows the fuel they need to put on massive amounts of weight quickly. Human milk is designed to aid primarily in brain development. Among other differences, cow's milk has no antibodies, at least double the amount of protein, also which is less digestible. Different kinds of fat, also less digestible. Cows have 4 stomachs, remember?
I don't know anything about the isolated tribes of Africa and the goat milk they consume and how it affects their health. I am more concerned with the way dairy is protrayed as a necessary and healthy part of our diets in America.
"An article posted by U.S. News & World Report called 10 Things the Food Industry Doesn’t Want You to Know reveals, “The studies that food producers support tend to minimize health concerns associated with their products,” and that “of hundreds of studies that looked at the health effects of milk, juice, and soda, the likelihood of conclusions favorable to the industry was several times higher among industry-sponsored research than studies that received no industry funding.”
I'm just curious as to why you are so defensive about this. I used to think dairy was really healthy too until I started looking into myself. That is all I am asking of you. Have an open mind.
I am being open minded, that is why I asked those questions. I know there are difference between human milk and cow’s milk, my question is what specifically are those differences and how do those specific difference lead to the conditions you identified?
What I am getting at here is that I am doubtful, while not 100% certain, that you will not be able to provide or even find that information because many of these types of “studies” conclude with evidence based upon correlation without causation, which leads to blatantly bad information much like the popular ideas behind saturated fats.
That’s it, I am looking for the hard (causation) evidence that should convince me I am wrong.
Well you did ask what the difference was between human and cow milk.... I just answered.
As for why cow milk is bad - I do believe it has been pointed out quite a few times. Its made for babies. To give special enzymes, protiens, hormones to a GROWING COW! Not to mention - as said above- cows have 4 stomachs which helps them digest. We have one stomach -unless you are a freak of nature. So it is much more difficult to digest those enzymes. Lactose is rough on our digestive system and its also a sugar that causes other health issues such as weigh gain, headaches, skin problems and more!
I give up… no one is understanding the difference between correlation and causation. You are just regurgitating what you have read without thinking about the how’s and why’s behind it. I am an engineer; I can’t just say “doing x will cause y” there is a lot of information between x and y that I have to account for. The only thing you are giving me is x and y, nothing in between.0 -
Depending on how much you eat. Do you portion it, if not, then try that for starters. If you do, then maybe cut the amount you are eating. Maybe have cheese every other day. Personally, I have cheese almost daily - as long as you go for light or low fat (NOT fat free) and you portion it, you should be OK. Remember it's dairy, and one of the recommended food groups.
Dairy might be one of the recommended food groups, but that does not mean it's good for you. Dairy is very bad for you and don't eat it because you think it's healthy. Eat it as a treat.
How is dairy bad for you!?
I eat drink full fat milk, eat full fat cheese, cottage cheese, sour cream and yogurt. Guess what, I am still losing weight.
Milk is a bodily fluid made by mammals specifically for the infants of that species. Cow milk is NOT for adult humans, despite what the dairy industry would like you to believe (and works VERY hard at it). I'm sorry that some of you still believe all the hype. Do some research and you will find out what I did....
Dairy has been linked to all kinds of health issues such as allergies, asthma, alzheimers, heart disease, cancer, osteoprosis (that's right) and many other issues. Dairy products (and all animal proteins) contain methionine, a substance that contains sulfur and acidifies our blood. The body must then pull calcium from its stores to neutralize the acid. Therefore, dairy products actually result in a net calcium loss. This has been proven over and over again. Cultures that do not eat dairy regularly enjoy much lower rates of osteoprosis. Ironic, huh?
In any case, what makes sense? Really, does it make sense that a fluid made for baby cows would be good for adult humans? Baby cows are born to put on a massive amount of weight very quickly, and their milk is perfectly designed for that function.
You don't have to listen to me. Take off the blinders about dairy and look into it yourself. Just watch the source. The dairy industry puts millions and millions of dollars every year towards perpetuating the myth.
I agree!!!. I use to be vegan, Im slowly going back to that. My body felt so much better, even now with cheese and dairy now and again I feel great.0 -
FYI I do know the differences. I want to see if someone of the belief that dairy is bad can EXPLAIN the difference and WHY these differences attribute to certain conditions. I did not want to test copy and paste skills.
That being said, this article makes very strong claims based upon correlation, not causation. I can do this to. Most people drive to work, working causes an increase in income, therefore, driving must be linked to an increase in income. See how that works.
Did you read the article? I guess you are just one of those stubborn people who hold fast to their convictions even though they are based on nothing other then "what I've always believed" type BS. I'm done trying to talk to you, there is no point and it just pisses me off. So have a nice day.
Yes, I read the article… it lacked causation. Good day.
“Milk is a contributing factor in constipation, chronic fatigue, arthritis, headaches, muscle cramps, obesity, allergies and heart problems.”
HOW does milk CAUSE these issues? This is my point, there is no causation, just correlation.
What CAUSES gravity? There's not causation, just correlation. Good day
Objects that have mass cause gravity. Mass is the measure of how much matter that an object has. Nice try though.0 -
Fine how is this for productive?
What specifically is the difference between the composition of human milk and cow’s milk and what about those difference makes cow’s milk bad? If we just drink milk because the dairy industry tells us to, then why have civilizations been doing it for centuries, specifically isolated colonies like those in Africa? Further, if dairy is “linked” to all of the diseases and ailments that you have listed, why have these civilizations and colonies suffered from very few of them?
I think these are intelligent questions that given you position, your should be able to answer for me.
All other mammals consume their mothers milk as infants and are eventually weaned, usually after they have tripled their birth weight. It is nutritionally balanced for the development of that particular species. A baby calves are around 100lbs and can gain and additional 100lbs in the first few months. No other mammals continue to drink milk after the weaning stage and certainly never through adulthood. I don't anticipate any human to need that much fat.
Correction to your statement: The dairy industry doesn't tell us to drink milk, it tells us to drink MORE milk and that we NEED it. There is a large difference. Your lousy argument about African colonies is pathetic. I am sure there are many factors for their health and survival. You on the other hand have grocery stores and various amounts of choices regarding what you can eat. If there are other sources of calcium and fat, I am sure you could survive without milk. Have you really done studies on what their main cause of death is over in these unspecified colonies? Have you actually researched their full diets or have you simply picked out little passages to aid your argument?
The biggest difference in your we cook food, grow food, and have doing it for centuries argument and the reason some are saying it is harmful is the factor that abuse within the industry is rampant. I am sure isolated colonies in Africa, don't have factory farms with poor conditions for cows and workers alike. They probably don't use artificial insemination, hormones, drugs, physical abuse, and the desire to do whatever it takes to remain profitable. No, you claim they do it for survival. This is not survival, but cruelty. Just because other animals don't know how to create fire, doesn't mean we should lord over them and abuse their abilities for profit.
"Under natural conditions, a cow could live up to twenty-five years, but on today's modern dairy farms, cows survive only three to five years." As cited in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, over half will be killed before their fourth birthday.
This isn't to say you can't drink milk. Drink all the milk you want. When you become so blind that none of your "research" shows any repercussions of the dairy industry, I feel the desire to help you out. You may not find compassion for animals as a means to be more respectful with your diet, but at the very least be respectful of others beliefs.
Is that intelligent enough for you?
Love it!!0 -
Back on topic, the fat, calcium and protein in cheese have all been proven to aid weight loss.
There's evidence to suggest dairy causes auto immune diseases, but no proof. The fact that some modern adults are now able to eat dairy without becoming sick is an example of recent evolution in homo sapiens.0 -
There's no proof mass causes gravity. Nice try though.
I used it as a known example of an argument that can't be won.0 -
Love it!!
Thanks dear. I didn't study environmental science for nothing!0 -
I love cheese, all cheeses yum yum, but I seriously have cut down on it and I weigh what I have and log it. But I do miss cramming shed loads of brie into my chops!!
ETA - Wtf have I walked into here?0 -
Ummm, ok. So as to the original question- CHEESE!! I eat full fat cheese every.single.day. I'd say (take a peek at my ticker and my recent thread in Success Stories) that it hasn't done a single bit of harm to my journey. YMMV, of course, but I've had great success continuing to eat cheese.0
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Dont give up cheese. Youll just crave it. Just watch how much of it you eat, and pick the lighter versions when available.0
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