Amount of weight vs Reps

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Replies

  • chelllsea124
    chelllsea124 Posts: 336 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    I could very well be wrong....

    but i think the theory is lift heavier weights at a lower rep to build bulkier muscle and then lighter weights with more reps to build leaner muscle.

    Could be wrong. Someone correct me, if so.

    All muscle is lean. There is no "bulky" muscle.

    Idk, man. some of these dudes in the gym are definitely looking bulky!!! :p

    A five pound bag loaded with six pounds of sand would look bulky. A five pound bag loaded with two pounds of sand would look slender.

    But they're both filled with sand.



    The difference between "lean" muscle and "bulky" muscle is how much of it there is.

    It was a joke.
  • Rusty740
    Rusty740 Posts: 749 Member
    edited July 2017
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Rusty740 wrote: »
    There are a few really good guidelines.

    Specificity is the most important. Work the muscles you want to build, seems obvious, but if you only have 60 lbs, you may have to do more isolation because with isolation, you use less weight.

    Always lift at 60% 1RM or greater, don't bother lifting more than 90-95% 1RM

    If you are within the first 2 years of lifting, complete the amount of reps with that weight that will take you to within 3-5 reps of failure. We're talking failure of form, not muscle failure.

    If you are more experienced, go to within 0-3 reps of failure.

    Muscle benefits from a variety of reps ranges from 3-20 or so. Lower reps get you strength, higher reps get you hypertrophy, but you must lift with weights that correspond to the rep range, heavier for low reps, lighter for high reps to within that range of failure above.

    3-5 sets are good, any more than 5 and you get diminishing or negative returns.

    Reps per week
    Large muscle groups 60-120 reps
    Smaller muscle groups 30-60 reps

    Here's a couple fancy graphics.
    nocc2l9jiote.jpg
    k82nuizbiczy.jpg

    One more thing. No muscle without a calorie surplus. yeah yeah recomp, but it's not ideal.

    This is interesting. Not to hijack OPs thread, but I have a question about "training for power". I feel like I am reasonably strong for my size, but I think I might be lacking power. For example, recently while doing P90X3, I noticed that I have a hard time with the plyometric type exercises. I can't jump high at all and, even though I have good cardio endurance, these drills wear me out fast. This is the case for any exercise that requires a "springy" type movement (for lack of knowing the proper term). I was thinking it is because my muscles lack flexibility. Is this what is meant by "training for power"? Is high reps with low weight a good way to improve this?

    No, high reps with a low weight would not train power. Typically you would use a moderately heavy weight for low reps with a quick movement. For example, I do power cleans for 3 reps x 5 sets. The movement has to be done explosively or I wouldn't be able to rack the bar on my shoulders.

    I was struggling to answer this one. At first I thought "explosiveness" was what she was thinking, but I'm guessing that it's actually strength because the complaint is that the drills are wearing her out fast and if she had more leg strength it might fix that. I take it for granted that cardiovascular endurance is already there. I think that if she were to gain strength in a similar type of movement (squats, weighted lunges or hack squats) that would help with the endurance part. Another thing to think about is perhaps she isn't eating enough carbs to fuel a longer workout like that.
  • mhwitt74
    mhwitt74 Posts: 159 Member
    The concept in general is Progressive Overload. As long as you're constantly challenging yourself, which you can do with isolation exercises, higher reps, supersets...you're going to improve.

    I mean, look at people who only do Bodyweight exercises. You can build and maintain muscle with almost no tools, it just depends on your goals. :)

    Very true.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    There has been some recent research to suggest that lifting with lighter weights can result in more hypertrophy results than previously thought. The practical applications will take time to sort out (as well as more research needed), but the idea is interesting.

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/light-weights-for-big-gains

  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,969 Member
    edited July 2017
    I have seen and used the chart above to plan my personal program and stay w/in the upper left portion of the chart for max strength and size development.

    I currently vary my workouts in terms of sets/reps between 3x10, 4x6 and 5x5. If it's not obvious, the weight lifted is higher w/low reps and lower w/high reps. I also pyramid my sets starting around 60% up to around 105% of my calculated 1RM for each lift.

    I go over 100% when trying to increase strength; if I succeed, it becomes my the new 100% 1RM level. If I don't, I just go back to my old 1RM until I want to try to increase it again. I don't do "drop" sets; don't believe in them.

    If you can already lift a specific weight, why go lower than that, as long as you are getting sufficient rest between lifting efforts? Understand why they are suggested but drop sets just seem defeatist to me. Just my POV.

    I used my calculated 1RM based on the highest rep/weight combo to measure my progress. It doesn't matter whether I can actually lift the calculated 1RM or not; often I cannot.

    It's just a way to increase the weights progressively and to measure and compare my progress consistently, when using different weight/rep schemes.

    If your calculated 1RM for a lift is increasing, you are getting stronger regardless of which weight scheme you are using.

    Doesn't matter which lift calculator you use; they all differ in how they arrive at the calculation. Just make sure to use the SAME calculator consistently or your results will not be comparable.


    BTW, few people actually know what their actual 1RM level for a lift is because they never attempt it and if they do they are not happy w/the result because it is much lower than what they expected.

    Unless you're a power lifter, your 1RM is really of NO importance, it only matters that you are making progress in your lifting my getting stronger, which is why I only use my calculated 1RM to measure my progress.

    It is also wise to avoid trying to actually do a 1RM lift, especially if you can actually lift really heavy (relative to your body weight) because the risk of injury is so much higher.

    For example, I'm 66 and weigh only 158# but my highest calculated 1RM for the DL is currently 395 (5x340). This is a very low number in the scheme of things but is a very high number for my weight and age.

    I actually tried pulling 395 one day and am not embarrassed to say that I couldn't even budge it. I also tried pulling 360 (when I was doing only 5x310) and actually got light headed and nearly fainted. However, I am lifting about 10% more now than I was then w/o negative effects.

    So, I don't try to do an actual 1RM anymore. Just not necessary and potentially dangerous; at least to me.
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,736 Member
    The Bottom line is that depending on your rep/lift scheme, you can get
    Stronger faster than you get bigger
    bigger faster than you get stronger
    Bigger and stronger at about the same pace

    That big man in the corner doing curls and grunting is not necessarily stronger than that "little" woman doing squats.
  • rheddmobile
    rheddmobile Posts: 6,841 Member
    As a post menopausal and completely unfit sedentary woman with diabetes, lupus, and a recent abdominal surgery, I outgrew 60 lbs in about a month. After about four months I'm about to outgrow 120lbs which is the max which will fit on my crappy starter set - I need a real bar and real weights now. And that's me, basically the least fit person possible without actually being in a hospital. There are certainly exercises you can do with 60lbs, or even bodyweight, but if you want to do progressive lifting you are quickly going to want more.
  • lorrpb
    lorrpb Posts: 11,465 Member
    As a post menopausal and completely unfit sedentary woman with diabetes, lupus, and a recent abdominal surgery, I outgrew 60 lbs in about a month. After about four months I'm about to outgrow 120lbs which is the max which will fit on my crappy starter set - I need a real bar and real weights now. And that's me, basically the least fit person possible without actually being in a hospital. There are certainly exercises you can do with 60lbs, or even bodyweight, but if you want to do progressive lifting you are quickly going to want more.

    Great job!
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,430 Member
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Rusty740 wrote: »
    There are a few really good guidelines.

    Specificity is the most important. Work the muscles you want to build, seems obvious, but if you only have 60 lbs, you may have to do more isolation because with isolation, you use less weight.

    Always lift at 60% 1RM or greater, don't bother lifting more than 90-95% 1RM

    If you are within the first 2 years of lifting, complete the amount of reps with that weight that will take you to within 3-5 reps of failure. We're talking failure of form, not muscle failure.

    If you are more experienced, go to within 0-3 reps of failure.

    Muscle benefits from a variety of reps ranges from 3-20 or so. Lower reps get you strength, higher reps get you hypertrophy, but you must lift with weights that correspond to the rep range, heavier for low reps, lighter for high reps to within that range of failure above.

    3-5 sets are good, any more than 5 and you get diminishing or negative returns.

    Reps per week
    Large muscle groups 60-120 reps
    Smaller muscle groups 30-60 reps

    Here's a couple fancy graphics.
    nocc2l9jiote.jpg
    k82nuizbiczy.jpg

    One more thing. No muscle without a calorie surplus. yeah yeah recomp, but it's not ideal.

    This is interesting. Not to hijack OPs thread, but I have a question about "training for power". I feel like I am reasonably strong for my size, but I think I might be lacking power. For example, recently while doing P90X3, I noticed that I have a hard time with the plyometric type exercises. I can't jump high at all and, even though I have good cardio endurance, these drills wear me out fast. This is the case for any exercise that requires a "springy" type movement (for lack of knowing the proper term). I was thinking it is because my muscles lack flexibility. Is this what is meant by "training for power"? Is high reps with low weight a good way to improve this?

    Power is the ability to apply strength quickly. You can be strong, but not as powerful as someone who may not have the as much pure strength as you. That comes down to genetics a lot of times, but can be trained to maximize your potential. To train for power, you will want to do explosive movements. Jumps, throws, Olympic movements, plyometrics. They are very taxing movements which is why you wear out quickly, and possibly an indicator your cardio system might not be as developed as u think.
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
    rybo wrote: »
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Rusty740 wrote: »
    There are a few really good guidelines.

    Specificity is the most important. Work the muscles you want to build, seems obvious, but if you only have 60 lbs, you may have to do more isolation because with isolation, you use less weight.

    Always lift at 60% 1RM or greater, don't bother lifting more than 90-95% 1RM

    If you are within the first 2 years of lifting, complete the amount of reps with that weight that will take you to within 3-5 reps of failure. We're talking failure of form, not muscle failure.

    If you are more experienced, go to within 0-3 reps of failure.

    Muscle benefits from a variety of reps ranges from 3-20 or so. Lower reps get you strength, higher reps get you hypertrophy, but you must lift with weights that correspond to the rep range, heavier for low reps, lighter for high reps to within that range of failure above.

    3-5 sets are good, any more than 5 and you get diminishing or negative returns.

    Reps per week
    Large muscle groups 60-120 reps
    Smaller muscle groups 30-60 reps

    Here's a couple fancy graphics.
    nocc2l9jiote.jpg
    k82nuizbiczy.jpg

    One more thing. No muscle without a calorie surplus. yeah yeah recomp, but it's not ideal.

    This is interesting. Not to hijack OPs thread, but I have a question about "training for power". I feel like I am reasonably strong for my size, but I think I might be lacking power. For example, recently while doing P90X3, I noticed that I have a hard time with the plyometric type exercises. I can't jump high at all and, even though I have good cardio endurance, these drills wear me out fast. This is the case for any exercise that requires a "springy" type movement (for lack of knowing the proper term). I was thinking it is because my muscles lack flexibility. Is this what is meant by "training for power"? Is high reps with low weight a good way to improve this?

    Power is the ability to apply strength quickly. You can be strong, but not as powerful as someone who may not have the as much pure strength as you. That comes down to genetics a lot of times, but can be trained to maximize your potential. To train for power, you will want to do explosive movements. Jumps, throws, Olympic movements, plyometrics. They are very taxing movements which is why you wear out quickly, and possibly an indicator your cardio system might not be as developed as u think.

    So just keep doing the same drills until I no longer feel fatigued? Then would you suggest to progress by adding weight or reps? When I say that I have "good cardio endurance", I am basing that on, as a distance runner, I have age graded results in the 66-70% range for distances from 5k to marathon. I am not entirely sure how that translates to these types of drills (obviously not as well as I would like).
  • rybo
    rybo Posts: 5,430 Member
    lporter229 wrote: »
    rybo wrote: »
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Rusty740 wrote: »
    There are a few really good guidelines.

    Specificity is the most important. Work the muscles you want to build, seems obvious, but if you only have 60 lbs, you may have to do more isolation because with isolation, you use less weight.

    Always lift at 60% 1RM or greater, don't bother lifting more than 90-95% 1RM

    If you are within the first 2 years of lifting, complete the amount of reps with that weight that will take you to within 3-5 reps of failure. We're talking failure of form, not muscle failure.

    If you are more experienced, go to within 0-3 reps of failure.

    Muscle benefits from a variety of reps ranges from 3-20 or so. Lower reps get you strength, higher reps get you hypertrophy, but you must lift with weights that correspond to the rep range, heavier for low reps, lighter for high reps to within that range of failure above.

    3-5 sets are good, any more than 5 and you get diminishing or negative returns.

    Reps per week
    Large muscle groups 60-120 reps
    Smaller muscle groups 30-60 reps

    Here's a couple fancy graphics.
    nocc2l9jiote.jpg
    k82nuizbiczy.jpg

    One more thing. No muscle without a calorie surplus. yeah yeah recomp, but it's not ideal.

    This is interesting. Not to hijack OPs thread, but I have a question about "training for power". I feel like I am reasonably strong for my size, but I think I might be lacking power. For example, recently while doing P90X3, I noticed that I have a hard time with the plyometric type exercises. I can't jump high at all and, even though I have good cardio endurance, these drills wear me out fast. This is the case for any exercise that requires a "springy" type movement (for lack of knowing the proper term). I was thinking it is because my muscles lack flexibility. Is this what is meant by "training for power"? Is high reps with low weight a good way to improve this?

    Power is the ability to apply strength quickly. You can be strong, but not as powerful as someone who may not have the as much pure strength as you. That comes down to genetics a lot of times, but can be trained to maximize your potential. To train for power, you will want to do explosive movements. Jumps, throws, Olympic movements, plyometrics. They are very taxing movements which is why you wear out quickly, and possibly an indicator your cardio system might not be as developed as u think.

    So just keep doing the same drills until I no longer feel fatigued? Then would you suggest to progress by adding weight or reps? When I say that I have "good cardio endurance", I am basing that on, as a distance runner, I have age graded results in the 66-70% range for distances from 5k to marathon. I am not entirely sure how that translates to these types of drills (obviously not as well as I would like).

    For explosive drills, you are going to want to stop well short of fatigue. I wouldn't compile a ton of reps, unless you are doing the Olympic drills and working technique. If you aren't familiar with them, it's probably not worth learning the technique, you can rely on other drills.
    As you are seeing, your distance abilities aren't translating well for doing these other movements. Doing some shorter more intense work or intervals will help, and the fact that you have a good running base should make your progress go a little faster.
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
    rybo wrote: »
    lporter229 wrote: »
    rybo wrote: »
    lporter229 wrote: »
    Rusty740 wrote: »
    There are a few really good guidelines.

    Specificity is the most important. Work the muscles you want to build, seems obvious, but if you only have 60 lbs, you may have to do more isolation because with isolation, you use less weight.

    Always lift at 60% 1RM or greater, don't bother lifting more than 90-95% 1RM

    If you are within the first 2 years of lifting, complete the amount of reps with that weight that will take you to within 3-5 reps of failure. We're talking failure of form, not muscle failure.

    If you are more experienced, go to within 0-3 reps of failure.

    Muscle benefits from a variety of reps ranges from 3-20 or so. Lower reps get you strength, higher reps get you hypertrophy, but you must lift with weights that correspond to the rep range, heavier for low reps, lighter for high reps to within that range of failure above.

    3-5 sets are good, any more than 5 and you get diminishing or negative returns.

    Reps per week
    Large muscle groups 60-120 reps
    Smaller muscle groups 30-60 reps

    Here's a couple fancy graphics.
    nocc2l9jiote.jpg
    k82nuizbiczy.jpg

    One more thing. No muscle without a calorie surplus. yeah yeah recomp, but it's not ideal.

    This is interesting. Not to hijack OPs thread, but I have a question about "training for power". I feel like I am reasonably strong for my size, but I think I might be lacking power. For example, recently while doing P90X3, I noticed that I have a hard time with the plyometric type exercises. I can't jump high at all and, even though I have good cardio endurance, these drills wear me out fast. This is the case for any exercise that requires a "springy" type movement (for lack of knowing the proper term). I was thinking it is because my muscles lack flexibility. Is this what is meant by "training for power"? Is high reps with low weight a good way to improve this?

    Power is the ability to apply strength quickly. You can be strong, but not as powerful as someone who may not have the as much pure strength as you. That comes down to genetics a lot of times, but can be trained to maximize your potential. To train for power, you will want to do explosive movements. Jumps, throws, Olympic movements, plyometrics. They are very taxing movements which is why you wear out quickly, and possibly an indicator your cardio system might not be as developed as u think.

    So just keep doing the same drills until I no longer feel fatigued? Then would you suggest to progress by adding weight or reps? When I say that I have "good cardio endurance", I am basing that on, as a distance runner, I have age graded results in the 66-70% range for distances from 5k to marathon. I am not entirely sure how that translates to these types of drills (obviously not as well as I would like).

    For explosive drills, you are going to want to stop well short of fatigue. I wouldn't compile a ton of reps, unless you are doing the Olympic drills and working technique. If you aren't familiar with them, it's probably not worth learning the technique, you can rely on other drills.
    As you are seeing, your distance abilities aren't translating well for doing these other movements. Doing some shorter more intense work or intervals will help, and the fact that you have a good running base should make your progress go a little faster.

    Thanks for the advice!
  • PokernuttAR
    PokernuttAR Posts: 74 Member
    I could very well be wrong....

    but i think the theory is lift heavier weights at a lower rep to build bulkier muscle and then lighter weights with more reps to build leaner muscle.

    Could be wrong. Someone correct me, if so.

    All muscle is lean. There is no "bulky" muscle.

    Idk, man. some of these dudes in the gym are definitely looking bulky!!! :p

    Don't confuse that "bulk" with muscle....if they're stomach sticks out further than their chest, its not muscle. lol Some guys like to flex their "bulky" arms, but they don't like to talk about their 46 inch waist.