Keto Diet Questions
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JustJeff1977
Posts: 27 Member
Hi- I'm going to try low carb (ketogenic) diet and have read up on it a bit but still have at least two questions. One- I've heard for years that calorie restriction is unnecessary but just read the opposite- that the same calorie restrictions apply as with a normal calorie restricted diet. Which is true?
Second- can I eat "Foods to Avoid" so song as I stay under the daily carb limit? (Looks like about 30)
Second- can I eat "Foods to Avoid" so song as I stay under the daily carb limit? (Looks like about 30)
2
Replies
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Calories are king.
It doesn't matter what macronutrient ratio you eat (carbs, fats, or proteins) you MUST consume less energy than you expend on a daily basis for your body to lose body fat over time, period.
Going low carb works for some as it allows them to feel satiated (as ketosis provides an appetite reducing effect) meaning they can eat lower calories without being hungry all the time. Some individuals find that going low carb makes them unhappy, unsatisfied, or they fail because they simply don't like eating fats and can't maintain their loss or do keto long term.
You can eat whatever you like on any diet so long as its food and you're able to eat less calories. As far as ketosis i believe only your total carbs matter but someone better acquainted with getting in and out of ketosis feel free to chime in here.8 -
Hi,
I won't eat "foods to avoid" even if under my daily carb limit. The carb limit should be used up with foods like green leafy veggies not stuff you should avoid. Once you have achieved what you want with the keto diet, some of those foods such as complex carbs can be added back for maintenance. Also, if you eat stuff with simple carbs and/or sugar, most find that their desire for that sort of food stays ramped up.
As far as calories. They do count, but most don't count them. The first effort of a keto diet, is to help your body change from burning glucose as your primary source of fuel to burning fat for your primary fuel. This can take days or weeks. And during this phase, most people pay little attention to calories. The diet becomes: 20grams of complex carbs, protein to your lean body weight requirements, and the rest of your food is fat, mono and saturated being the most of it. You eat fat if you are hungry, adding oil olive to salads, butter to veggies etc Most find that hunger drops off fairly quickly and the calories drop with this. I find that if truly fat adapted, then I really do not have to watch calories because I am not that hungry.
Once you are "fat adapted", then you lower the fats you are eating so that the body can burn the "onboard" fats. As you get closer to your goal, calories count more and people find they have to watch them a little more closely.
If you add in a donut say, or cookies but stay under your 30 grams, your body may fall out of ketosis (fat adapted) or it may not. And I am not willing to sacrifice veggies for these types of foods.
There is a great group which is large, and has a wonderful resource library set up over at:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
come and join us. There are slow carbers, low carbers, ketoers and zero carbers all represented there. Lots of long term experience too.
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Thanks.. I've just heard it so many times.. "You can eat as much as you want" over and over. Never bought it but figured I'd ask. I'm trying the low carb for some of the other claims made about it- otherwise, yeah I'd just eat 1,500 calories of whatever I want.
As far as the second question- that sounds right to me as well, but I want to make sure. Hopefully somebody knows.0 -
A long time ago, I weighed 235 or so (5'8"). I cut out carbs entirely and didn't pay attention to calories. I got down to about 180 with no exercise that way in a relatively short while. Sliding from 180 down to about 150 and shifting to entirely lean muscle took a lot more focus on what I was eating in terms of protein and calories, when I was eating, and incorporating regular exercise. As many people say, everyone's different and as your body changes, your metabolism will probably change, so I suspect this is tough to answer and better to get some experience and adjust as you go.
As to your second question, I really felt the secret to success with keto was not to eat foods your shouldn't eat. In other words, you really are best off finding a set of foods that satisfy you and don't really have any appreciable carbs and let go of foods outside of that set. It just takes the pressure off and lets you focus on feeding yourself what you need to achieve your goal. My opinion only, of course.
Good luck!4 -
dasher602014 wrote: »Hi,
I won't eat "foods to avoid" even if under my daily carb limit. The carb limit should be used up with foods like green leafy veggies not stuff you should avoid. Once you have achieved what you want with the keto diet, some of those foods such as complex carbs can be added back for maintenance. Also, if you eat stuff with simple carbs and/or sugar, most find that their desire for that sort of food stays ramped up.
As far as calories. They do count, but most don't count them. The first effort of a keto diet, is to help your body change from burning glucose as your primary source of fuel to burning fat for your primary fuel. This can take days or weeks. And during this phase, most people pay little attention to calories. The diet becomes: 20grams of complex carbs, protein to your lean body weight requirements, and the rest of your food is fat, mono and saturated being the most of it. You eat fat if you are hungry, adding oil olive to salads, butter to veggies etc Most find that hunger drops off fairly quickly and the calories drop with this. I find that if truly fat adapted, then I really do not have to watch calories because I am not that hungry.
Once you are "fat adapted", then you lower the fats you are eating so that the body can burn the "onboard" fats. As you get closer to your goal, calories count more and people find they have to watch them a little more closely.
If you add in a donut say, or cookies but stay under your 30 grams, your body may fall out of ketosis (fat adapted) or it may not. And I am not willing to sacrifice veggies for these types of foods.
There is a great group which is large, and has a wonderful resource library set up over at:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
come and join us. There are slow carbers, low carbers, ketoers and zero carbers all represented there. Lots of long term experience too.
Thanks for all that- I joined the group. The main reasons for asking the second question are these. First- I have a lot of food lying around that I would like to use up over time, and second- if I'm caught eating out, what are my limits.
What I'm hearing here is that the metabolic benefit of the ketosis is basically hunger control. If you fall out of ketosis, the consequence is hunger, but no direct effect on weight loss.
I've never had much of an issue with hunger- even while dieting. I'm more interested in increasing my energy level and I'm curious if this will work.
So I suppose I'll track what I'm eating but not sweat the weight loss too much. And I won't worry about using up food I have lying around at the moment.0 -
For weight loss, your limit is your maintenance calories. If you consistently eat below that, you lose weight. You set your own macro limits, which have nothing to do with weight loss, but everything to do with satiety, satisfaction, general wellbeing, and thus ability and willingness to adhere to eating below maintenance calories.dasher602014 wrote: »Hi,
I won't eat "foods to avoid" even if under my daily carb limit. The carb limit should be used up with foods like green leafy veggies not stuff you should avoid. Once you have achieved what you want with the keto diet, some of those foods such as complex carbs can be added back for maintenance. Also, if you eat stuff with simple carbs and/or sugar, most find that their desire for that sort of food stays ramped up.
As far as calories. They do count, but most don't count them. The first effort of a keto diet, is to help your body change from burning glucose as your primary source of fuel to burning fat for your primary fuel. This can take days or weeks. And during this phase, most people pay little attention to calories. The diet becomes: 20grams of complex carbs, protein to your lean body weight requirements, and the rest of your food is fat, mono and saturated being the most of it. You eat fat if you are hungry, adding oil olive to salads, butter to veggies etc Most find that hunger drops off fairly quickly and the calories drop with this. I find that if truly fat adapted, then I really do not have to watch calories because I am not that hungry.
Once you are "fat adapted", then you lower the fats you are eating so that the body can burn the "onboard" fats. As you get closer to your goal, calories count more and people find they have to watch them a little more closely.
If you add in a donut say, or cookies but stay under your 30 grams, your body may fall out of ketosis (fat adapted) or it may not. And I am not willing to sacrifice veggies for these types of foods.
There is a great group which is large, and has a wonderful resource library set up over at:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group
come and join us. There are slow carbers, low carbers, ketoers and zero carbers all represented there. Lots of long term experience too.
Thanks for all that- I joined the group. The main reasons for asking the second question are these. First- I have a lot of food lying around that I would like to use up over time, and second- if I'm caught eating out, what are my limits.
If hunger isn't an issue for you, I'd just stop aiming for ketosis. It won't do anything to increase your energy, on the contrary, many people report that they need carbs to be able to exercise effectively.What I'm hearing here is that the metabolic benefit of the ketosis is basically hunger control. If you fall out of ketosis, the consequence is hunger, but no direct effect on weight loss.
I've never had much of an issue with hunger- even while dieting. I'm more interested in increasing my energy level and I'm curious if this will work.
If you track correctly and hit your calorie goal, you will lose weight. Exactly what you eat will have no direct influence on weight loss, just indirect, as (repeatedly) explained.So I suppose I'll track what I'm eating but not sweat the weight loss too much. And I won't worry about using up food I have lying around at the moment.2 -
Thanks.. I've just heard it so many times.. "You can eat as much as you want" over and over. Never bought it but figured I'd ask. I'm trying the low carb for some of the other claims made about it- otherwise, yeah I'd just eat 1,500 calories of whatever I want.
As far as the second question- that sounds right to me as well, but I want to make sure. Hopefully somebody knows.
You can definitely over eat in keto but some of us find there is a slight metabolic advantage to keto - mainly those ofuswith some insulin resistance. I lost 2-3 lbs a week on a deficit that should have lost me about 1.5 lbs if I ate higher carb. My TDEE seems to get bumped up a small amount... Could be due to reduced inflammation from autoimmune issues too.
Anyways, I can eat 2000-2500 kcal in keto and maintain well. If I add in more carbs, I start regaining at the same amount of calories. It is not a big difference but it is there...
Part of your question is the wording too. "Eating all that I want" on keto is a smaller amount than eating all that I want on a high carb diet.
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I completed my first day at this and am looking for tips and comments. If you are interested, please take a look at what I ate yesterday!
I'm surprised I hit 50 carbs (higher than I thought I would)- mostly surprised that the majority came from the vegetables I chose.
In general, do my goals look correct? Did I do ok where I ended up? (Note: I'm not trying for a calorie deficit right now)
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I completed my first day at this and am looking for tips and comments. If you are interested, please take a look at what I ate yesterday!
I'm surprised I hit 50 carbs (higher than I thought I would)- mostly surprised that the majority came from the vegetables I chose.
In general, do my goals look correct? Did I do ok where I ended up? (Note: I'm not trying for a calorie deficit right now)
Looks good!
The only thing you need for ketosis is carb restriction and 50g total (33 net carbs) is low enough. 130g of protein is great too. As soon as you're ready to eat less (usually takes about a week) cut back on the fat/cheese to create your deficit. Just remember to be mindful of your salt - you're getting plenty right now from the cheese and pepperoni but as your appetite decreases and you eat less that might change.1 -
Thanks!
Yeah I noticed the pepperoni salt and figured I won't be buying that again for a while. How did you figure the net carbs? I know it has to do with fiber- but simple subtraction would equal 36.0 -
Thanks!
Yeah I noticed the pepperoni salt and figured I won't be buying that again for a while. How did you figure the net carbs? I know it has to do with fiber- but simple subtraction would equal 36.
My mistake - I subtracted your sugar instead of your fiber but 36g net carbs is still fine. Just to be clear, you need 3g-5g of salt on a ketogenic diet especially in the beginning (your kidneys will begin to flush salt and you need to replace it).1 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »Thanks!
Yeah I noticed the pepperoni salt and figured I won't be buying that again for a while. How did you figure the net carbs? I know it has to do with fiber- but simple subtraction would equal 36.
My mistake - I subtracted your sugar instead of your fiber but 36g net carbs is still fine. Just to be clear, you need 3g-5g of salt on a ketogenic diet especially in the beginning (your kidneys will begin to flush salt and you need to replace it).
I bolded that because it is so important. Your electrolytes will become depleted, and you will feel like trash if you don't keep it up. Ketosis causes natriuresis. It causes you to shed sodium. Sodium is the keeper. If sodium is kept up, it encourages the body to retain proper levels of the other electrolytes. If it isn't, you'll leech potassium and mag out. That's the misnamed "keto flu" they talk about. Entirely preventable.1 -
This is bizarre. I had no idea about the sodium obviously. I added it to the diary and removed the sugar column. I hope that's ok. And I set it a 4,000 mg. Is the sodium intake risky for some people?0
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This is bizarre. I had no idea about the sodium obviously. I added it to the diary and removed the sugar column. I hope that's ok. And I set it a 4,000 mg. Is the sodium intake risky for some people?
I don't know about risky (i imagine it is) but I can tell you that the first thing I see is people coming on the boards complaining about how terrible they feel on keto and this is always the response. 1 -
This is bizarre. I had no idea about the sodium obviously. I added it to the diary and removed the sugar column. I hope that's ok. And I set it a 4,000 mg. Is the sodium intake risky for some people?
Without some sort of medical condition, doubtful, as it falls in the safe range for sodium. Even people with hypertension have good results lowering blood pressure on ketogenic diets. It's believed that people who are sensitive to dietary salt may have hyperinsulinemia (insulin causes salt retention) so by lowering insulin it treats the underlying condition... in theory.
Either or, I've never heard of anyone having issues with the level of salt needed so unless you have a specific medical concern I don't think it's anything to worry about.2 -
Hi- I'm going to try low carb (ketogenic) diet and have read up on it a bit but still have at least two questions. One- I've heard for years that calorie restriction is unnecessary but just read the opposite- that the same calorie restrictions apply as with a normal calorie restricted diet. Which is true?
Second- can I eat "Foods to Avoid" so song as I stay under the daily carb limit? (Looks like about 30)
From what I understand about calorie restrictions not applying is that you won't feel hungry enough to go over an unacceptable limit. The restrictions still apply, but you are less hungry and more able to resist over eating, which is why I have decided to follow this plan. I've had carb slip ups as I am new to this but the hype so far has been correct. I went from binging over 3k worth of calories to eating 1700-1800 calories and not feeling "snackish".. which is a win for me. I've already lost 7 lbs in a little over a week and a half.. with mistakes. Probably mostly water weight but I've never lost before with trying to use just cico. It isn't for everyone be for some cico is their miracle cure but for me I need more fats and proteins to feel satiated all day long. I believe I answered your second question as well.. I've slipped up and still lost weight!0 -
Thanks..
So far I've eaten more than the calories required to stay at my current weight. I've been focusing only on the ketosis. I lightened up my breakfast a bit and got hungry about 10:30 so ate again.
I bought test strips yesterday and it looks like I'm at 15 to 40. Is that good? Is anything but zero good? I don't really feel any different and I'm down about three pounds due to water I'm sure. If anyone cares to look- how does my eating look?0
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