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Can diet affect your mental health?
Replies
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Yes! I feel like rubbish (slow, sluggish, lazy, almost depressed) if I only eat sugar and carbs
But I also feel like rubbish if I don't get a little chocolate every day haha so it's a balancing act for me
I eat a little chocolate almost every day.
Have you tried the blackout dark chocolate bar? I eat 2 squares a day usually, it has a rich creamy taste for being 85%.6 -
I have bipolar type 1. In 2013 I was eating a strict paleo diet, clean as *kitten*.
I felt great, was in the best shape of my life. I told all my friends I was cured of mental illness and had done it with diet an exercise.
I was convinced.
.......
Then boom: started seeing robots, paranoia, mixed manic breakdown.
........
These days I recognise that diet helps my stability, but it certainly can't replace medication for me.
I like to stay alive and sane. I take my lithium. I try and eat in a way that supports my mental health.10 -
I have bipolar type 1. In 2013 I was eating a strict paleo diet, clean as *kitten*.
I felt great, was in the best shape of my life. I told all my friends I was cured of mental illness and had done it with diet an exercise.
I was convinced.
.......
Then boom: started seeing robots, paranoia, mixed manic breakdown.
........
These days I recognise that diet helps my stability, but it certainly can't replace medication for me.
I like to stay alive and sane. I take my lithium. I try and eat in a way that supports my mental health.
Exactly how I view this. Diet helps, but it doesn't replace your medication. Not yet anyway and maybe never.
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theresejesu wrote: »The title of this thread is "Can diet affect your mental healrh?"
The answer is definitely yes, it can indeed affect your mental heslth.
Arguments that focus on arguing diet can't cause or cure mental illness are red herrings deflecting off of the fact that diets do affect mental health, for reasons I am having difficulty understanding.
Schizophrenia has come up. Can diet affect schizophrenia?:
"Disturbances in energy homeostasis have been linked to the pathobiology of several mental diseases, and so dietary management is becoming a realistic strategy to treat psychiatric disorders. Numerous studies have found that there might be an association between abnormal metabolism (diabetes type II, obesity and metabolic syndrome) and psychiatric disorders59. In a large study of patients with manic depression60 or schizophrenia61,62, the rate of diabetes was found to be higher than in the general population (1.2% of people aged 18–44 years and 6.3% of people aged 45–64 years163). The overall prevalence of diabetes in a group of 95 patients with schizophrenia was 15.8%, and this increased to 18.9% with age61, whereas diabetes in 203 patients with manic depression ranged from 2.9% in patients of approximately 30 years of age to 25% in patients of 75–79 years of age60.
However, it is difficult to ascertain a cause–effect relationship between diabetes and psychiatric disorders in these studies given that schizophrenia, manic depression and other psychiatric disorders are associated with poor quality of life and the side effects of anti-psychotic medication.
On the basis of its effects on synaptic plasticity and energy metabolism, BDNF has been the focus of research into current hypotheses of schizophrenia and depression63–66. Low levels of BDNF in the plasma are associated with impaired glucose metabolism and type II diabetes67, and BDNF is reduced in the hippocampus, in various cortical areas68 and in the serum69 of patients with schizophrenia. In mice, genetic deletion of the TrkB receptor in the forebrain produces schizophrenic-like behaviour70. Furthermore, BDNF levels are reduced in the plasma of patients with major depression71, and chronic administration of antidepressants elevates hippocampal BDNF levels72. A recent study in rodents demonstrated that defeat stress, an animal model of depression, induced a lasting repression of BDNF transcripts, whereas antidepressant treatment reversed this repression by inducing histone acetylation73. Although the evidence is not conclusive to argue that BDNF has a role in mediating depression or schizophrenia, it is becoming clear that most treatments for depression or schizophrenia — that is, exercise and drugs — involve the action of BDNF."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2805706/
Here is a more recent article on BDNF and Schizophrenia:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683823/
Here is an article about ways to increase BDNF, which is deficient in people with Schizophrenia, with sources:
http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/30/8-ways-to-increase-bdnf-levels-brain-derived-neurotrophic-factor/
which includes exercise, calorie restriction or intermittent fasting, dietary modifications, sunlight/vit D, supplements, weight loss, drugs, and social enrichment.
Most of those invoke diet in some fashion.
Umm. Read the part I bolded. People with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia get fat from not taking care of themselves or taking medications associated with extreme weight gain. The very idea that my diet is causing my mental health problems is just plain insulting. Also, how old is this? When did scientific literature last use the term "manic depression"?9 -
Yes! I feel like rubbish (slow, sluggish, lazy, almost depressed) if I only eat sugar and carbs
But I also feel like rubbish if I don't get a little chocolate every day haha so it's a balancing act for me
So you have days when you eat no protein or fats? Doesn't seem very sensible. Not surprising you would feel like rubbish.1 -
jennybearlv wrote: »theresejesu wrote: »The title of this thread is "Can diet affect your mental healrh?"
The answer is definitely yes, it can indeed affect your mental heslth.
Arguments that focus on arguing diet can't cause or cure mental illness are red herrings deflecting off of the fact that diets do affect mental health, for reasons I am having difficulty understanding.
Schizophrenia has come up. Can diet affect schizophrenia?:
"Disturbances in energy homeostasis have been linked to the pathobiology of several mental diseases, and so dietary management is becoming a realistic strategy to treat psychiatric disorders. Numerous studies have found that there might be an association between abnormal metabolism (diabetes type II, obesity and metabolic syndrome) and psychiatric disorders59. In a large study of patients with manic depression60 or schizophrenia61,62, the rate of diabetes was found to be higher than in the general population (1.2% of people aged 18–44 years and 6.3% of people aged 45–64 years163). The overall prevalence of diabetes in a group of 95 patients with schizophrenia was 15.8%, and this increased to 18.9% with age61, whereas diabetes in 203 patients with manic depression ranged from 2.9% in patients of approximately 30 years of age to 25% in patients of 75–79 years of age60.
However, it is difficult to ascertain a cause–effect relationship between diabetes and psychiatric disorders in these studies given that schizophrenia, manic depression and other psychiatric disorders are associated with poor quality of life and the side effects of anti-psychotic medication.
On the basis of its effects on synaptic plasticity and energy metabolism, BDNF has been the focus of research into current hypotheses of schizophrenia and depression63–66. Low levels of BDNF in the plasma are associated with impaired glucose metabolism and type II diabetes67, and BDNF is reduced in the hippocampus, in various cortical areas68 and in the serum69 of patients with schizophrenia. In mice, genetic deletion of the TrkB receptor in the forebrain produces schizophrenic-like behaviour70. Furthermore, BDNF levels are reduced in the plasma of patients with major depression71, and chronic administration of antidepressants elevates hippocampal BDNF levels72. A recent study in rodents demonstrated that defeat stress, an animal model of depression, induced a lasting repression of BDNF transcripts, whereas antidepressant treatment reversed this repression by inducing histone acetylation73. Although the evidence is not conclusive to argue that BDNF has a role in mediating depression or schizophrenia, it is becoming clear that most treatments for depression or schizophrenia — that is, exercise and drugs — involve the action of BDNF."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2805706/
Here is a more recent article on BDNF and Schizophrenia:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3683823/
Here is an article about ways to increase BDNF, which is deficient in people with Schizophrenia, with sources:
http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/30/8-ways-to-increase-bdnf-levels-brain-derived-neurotrophic-factor/
which includes exercise, calorie restriction or intermittent fasting, dietary modifications, sunlight/vit D, supplements, weight loss, drugs, and social enrichment.
Most of those invoke diet in some fashion.
Umm. Read the part I bolded. People with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia get fat from not taking care of themselves or taking medications associated with extreme weight gain. The very idea that my diet is causing my mental health problems is just plain insulting. Also, how old is this? When did scientific literature last use the term "manic depression"?
I included it to include the greater context in that small section of a much larger artcle. However, focusing on that part you bolded misses the bigger picture.
You obviously didn't bother to read it or the article that followed it if you're worried about the age of the first article.
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As someone who has struggled with mental health issues AND with weight issues I firmly believe that my depression causes me to eat poorly and too much, not the other way around. I was at a healthy weight and ate well before the depression first hit in college. After that, I have struggled with both.
I have my own depression scale:- Even keel. Doing well, in control, able to just glide over whatever waves come my way.
- My eating habits go south. This is the first indicator that I am at the top of a spiral. If I can get my eating back on track, I often am able to halt an oncoming depressive episode
- My housekeeping goes south
- My personal care (showering, getting dressed, etc) goes bad
- I spend all day in bed with books and food.
Yes, my eating and exercise habits are firmly entwined with my mental health but it is a symptom, not a cause of depression.
Me to a T (and me currently...)1 -
VintageFeline wrote: »You know what, I'm going to go with what my consultant psychiatrist has to say about treatment of my chronic mental illnesses. It's frankly insulting to have a layman come in here purporting to know more about my illnesses and their causes than both myself, my GP, my psychiatrist and psychologist. And I live in the UK so it's not a big pharma conspiracy.
How about you live with schizophrenia or bipolar etc, try to treat it with diet and get back to me?
This.
It absolutely disgusts me when someone comes breezing in on these posts claiming Diet is a fix all for mental illness and other illnesses such as Alzheimer's. My dad has Alzheimer's. He doesn't even know who I am anymore. It's freakin insulting to see Diet as a cure all when it simply isn't. Deplorable.
I certainly didn't see a change when I was eating "clean" vegetarian for years. My mental illness plummeted to an all time low, actually.10 -
singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
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theresejesu wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'm curious why lectins (one type of anti-nutrient) are problematic, but oxalic acid, phytic acid, and glucosinolates aren't a problem in the Gundry approved list of foods.
gundrymd.com/plant-paradox-shopping-list/
He's rather inconsistent and it would seem to me that a careful read on anti-nutrients shows just about ALL foods except fruits (and even at that, enough fiber in quantity is an anti-nutrient) and meats contain anti-nutrients.
Given that these foods also contain numerous other healthy compounds like vitamins and minerals that have benefits which far outnumber these anti-nutrient effects and that cooking and other known methods deal with the anti-nutrients, I can't see any benefit to being alarmist about foods that people have been eating for years.
I especially can't see the point of putting aside critical thinking and acting like the whole of the body of medical and nutritional science is so backward minded that someone whose own message on the "dangers" inherent in foods isn't even consistent with its own narrative should be adhered to, especially to the point where it's implied that those of us who refuse to see the wisdom in this message are failing to see the truth of it.
The problem is though, cooking, looked at just in a general way doesn't quite cut it. First, you can't destroy or get rid of all the offending lectins by cooking, some resist all methods. For those that can be significantly reduced by cooking, you would need to know which method to use and apply it correctly. Some need pressure cooking, some need a certain temp to be reached and maintained for a minimum time, others need fermentation or long periods of soaking, and for some none of this works.
For myself, my approach to this information is to try to avoid all the foods on the "no" list to start with (which is to allow the gut to heal, stop the leaky-gut problems), and if I can't, then use Lectin Lock or similar supplement to keep them in the gut as much as possible, then add foods back in that I can properly prepare to avoid the offending lectins they conrain.
In fact, I put both Lectin Lock and what i learned from Gundry's book to the test to see if an idea I had might pan out (I know, 2 variables, but I figured that if it didn't work, then that might mean both were negated or only the Lectin Lock didnt really work.) After reading what Gundry had to say about WGA - Wheat Germ Agglutinin, and other research I read about it, one of the questions I had was in regards to insulin resistance. WGA mimics insulin in the body. It can bind with insulin receptor sites, thus preventing insulin from binding to those sites for the interim, and sending its 'bad' messages to the cell. Unlike insulin, which delivers its message the releases the receptor site to allow it to be open to more insulin, WGA does not release its hold and continues to occupy the insulin receptor site until it's exhausted. During this time, insulin is out there waiting and accumulating along with the glucose it's trying to get into the cell for energy production.
That accumulation of insulin and glucose would look just like what we see in insulin resistence. So the question I had was could WGA and other lectins that mimic insulin be a significant cause of the increase in insulin and glucose levels we see with insulin resistance? If our increased levels of glucose and insulin are the result of our cells gradually becoming less responsive to insulin, then that's not going to change with the drop of a hat. It would gradually change over time in response to healthier eating, etc. One would not see an immediate reversion to normal values.
But what if taking Lectin Lock before a meal known to spike blood sugar in someone who is borderline diabetic (A1C had finally reached 6.4, so had been developing insulin resistance for a long time) actually resulted in an immediate normal, healthy response to a sugar load as demonstrated by normal blood sugars at 1 and 2 hours post meal: less than 140 at 1 hour, and less than 120 at 2 hours? That would suggest that 1) Lectin Lock was working to keep WGA and other insulin mimicking lectins from entering the body and binding to insulin receptor sites and disrupting insulin's ability to get glucose into cells, 2)these lectins are causing rises in glucose and insulin just as Gundry and others are telling us, and 3) now insulin would be able to bind to the receptor sites without hinderance and lower glucose normally without an increased insulin response..
So, I went to McDonalds with my daughter, bought a quarter pounder cheese burger with everything on it and a large half-cut sweet tea. I took the Lectin Lock.
At 1 hour post meal, my BS was 135. I've never seen my blood sugar at 135 at 1 hour after eating something like that, it would be in the 180s or higher unless I took cinnamon. I was very surprised. 20 min later it was 125 and dropping.
The next day I was fasting for labs, so didn't eat until later in the afternoon. Decided to do something similar with foid from another fast food restaurant - took Lectin Lock, then had a bacon cheeseburger with everything on it, fried asparagus and a large raspberry ice tea. My 1 hour BS was 128! My 2 hour was 113!!.
Now two tests don't prove anything, but I was getting excited.
Later that night my pre-meal BS was 86!!! That I cannot remember ever seeing without being symptomatic and only if I had gone way too long without eating. In the past, if my blood sugar was that low, I would be symptomatic and my brain woul be screaming 'eat something!' I felt fine, a bit hungry, but fine.
1 hour post meal, 126! 2.5 hours post meal 114! I see a trend developing.
Later I decided to have a snack - raisin cinnamon bread lightly toasted with coconut oil (instead of butter) - no Lectin Lock. 1 hour BS 142.
Decided to have the same thing the next day,
this time with Lectin Lock, 1 hour BS 105!
This same pattern continued over the next week as I continued monitoring my BS in response to the use of Lectin Lock. The only time I went out of the accepted ranges was when I had a meal with tofu - my pre meal BS wss 90, 1 hour BS was 161, yet my 2 hour was 114.
Needless to say, I knew I was on to something, which meant Gundry and others have definitely been on to something important.
I have been doing so much better healthwise in general since cutting out grains and beans especially, using Lectin Lock when I can't be sure I am avoiding them, even before I began the keto diet. I dont crave them, I dont miss them. When we go out to dinner, like at a Mexican restaurant and everyone is having chips and beans and salsa while waiting for our food, I have absolutely no desire for any of it, even if I'm quite hungry; and I used to chow down on this stuff just as much as the next person and enjoyed it.
I am seeing in my own life the evidence of what Gundry is trying to tell people. The problem is, we filter everything through our paradigms, and unless we are open to new ideas and having our paradigms challenged, even demolished, along with their underlying assumptions, we can too easily dismiss something like thus, which I was also tempted to do regarding his book.
I am very glad I didn't.
@theresejesu that is an interesting n=1 experiment and thanks for sharing in detail and keep us posted. It seems from posts here that one's diet impact on physical and mental health can vary a great deal from person to person.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Everything in this quote is correlation. People with other chronic illnesses also often have depression because it's just hard *kitten* work living with it.
And of course if one is overweight because meds led them to eating more and gaining more, thus leading to low esteem, it can exacerbate symptoms. They mention fat and sugar because it is often hyper-palatable foods that are eaten when self medicating in this way. And these foods of course are more calorie dense and more likely to lead to excessive weight gain. This is not down to what is being eaten but how much.
Some people were discovered to be IR or gluten intolerant on some and switching to a low carb/keto WOE liften symptoms? Well no *kitten*, relieving the symptoms of one condition is of course going to have an impact on mood to a degree. I can have bipolar symptoms and then there can be outside forces that magnify them.
Personal anecdote of how cutting this or that or eating this or that way is just that, personal anecdote. Noe of the excerpts quoted here as showing potential links does that. They all come back to weight gain from medications causing cravings and hunger and low self esteem.
Exercise does help. Eating well does help (but I have always eaten well for the most part, I just ate too much) but I would suspect it's more due to the boosted self esteem from caring for yourself well in spite of your illness. Controlling something in your life when dealing with chronic mental illness can be a powerful thing. It's now one of my coping mechanisms instead of turning to food.theresejesu wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »You know what, I'm going to go with what my consultant psychiatrist has to say about treatment of my chronic mental illnesses. It's frankly insulting to have a layman come in here purporting to know more about my illnesses and their causes than both myself, my GP, my psychiatrist and psychologist. And I live in the UK so it's not a big pharma conspiracy.
How about you live with schizophrenia or bipolar etc, try to treat it with diet and get back to me?
The topic of the thread is about diet affecting mental health. I've provided some research regarding schizophrenia and how research shows it can be affected by diet. Never once have I said someone with schizophrenia should treat their illness with diet. The info was presented to address the topic of the thread only. Why this is offensive is beyond my understanding, and l'm sorry you feel that way.
Are you saying research into this area is wrong, or that your providers have not told you to avoid certain foods in certain amounts?
By the way, I am personally impacted by this disease, as my daughter is affected.
Any research into mental illness is a good thing, it's grossly under-researched when compared to other illnesses that affect people on the same scale.I'm just not convinced by findings so far that it is as big a deal as you are pushing.
And of course the age of the study matters. Science and research can move pretty quickly. The fact the manic depression was changed to bipolar with sub-types some time ago tells us that is a pretty paper.
Of course my provider didn't tell me to avoid certain foods? What foods do you think I shouldn't be eating? How do you think people who function far more horribly than I do with little insight into their condition are supposed to implement such a thing?
It's insulting because you seem to think we and our treatment teams are somehow ignorant of the fact we could making a big difference to our symptoms and outcomes if we just ate "x" way. Which to date has not been proven to be true.And trying to sustain something potentially complicated under the guise of it having a measurable impact can lead to frustration and feelings of failure.10 -
Ketogenic diets have been used for many years in patients (particularly children) with some forms of medication resistant epilepsy to help reduce seizures.
Interestingly, there is a huge crossover of therapeutic class with many anticonvulsant drugs used as mood stabilisers. Sodium valproate is a good example. As is lamotrigine.
I am curious as to whether a ketogenic diet could have a stabilising effect on mood in some people in the same way that some anticonvulsants do.
Ketosis can certainly have an anti convulsant effect.
But again, just my speculative example of a possible correlation between diet and mental health. The link doesn't seem impossible to me.
Anecdotally, I tried it (ketosis) for a time and noticed a reduction in symptoms - however, it was hard on my kidneys and thus incompatible with my medication.1 -
Ketogenic diets have been used for many years in patients (particularly children) with some forms of medication resistant epilepsy to help reduce seizures.
Interestingly, there is a huge crossover of therapeutic class with many anticonvulsant drugs used as mood stabilisers. Sodium valproate is a good example. As is lamotrigine.
I am curious as to whether a ketogenic diet could have a stabilising effect on mood in some people in the same way that some anticonvulsants do.
Ketosis can certainly have an anti convulsant effect.
But again, just my speculative example of a possible correlation between diet and mental health. The link doesn't seem impossible to me.
Anecdotally, I tried it (ketosis) for a time and noticed a reduction in symptoms - however, it was hard on my kidneys and thus incompatible with my medication.
I would be very careful with it since you are bipolar. You may be okay with it since you are type one, but if you are susceptible to depression due to brain chemical imbalance I would keep a very close eye on it if you wish to try it. I shared my experience with that once, and apparently I wasn't the only one. Crippling depression with suicidal thoughts every time I attempted a ketogenic diet. Someone even posted a link (which I lost) how there was a link that has been studied. Apparently not everyone is affected like that, might have to do with something being psychological vs chemical, not entirely sure. Some report improvements in their depression that may be true or perceived (as is the case with many who start a different diet and feel good about doing something good for their health).1 -
That's awful. Brain chemistry is a tricky thing.
I found it (keto) helped me (I do get deep depressive episodes as well even as type 1) but then ketone bodies and lithium competing for renal excretion led to mild lithium toxicity so all over for that little experiment.
I'm more curious in a hypothetical way. In regards to the 'can diet affect mental health' discussion it's something that I wouldn't be surprised by a future link.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Ketogenic diets have been used for many years in patients (particularly children) with some forms of medication resistant epilepsy to help reduce seizures.
Interestingly, there is a huge crossover of therapeutic class with many anticonvulsant drugs used as mood stabilisers. Sodium valproate is a good example. As is lamotrigine.
I am curious as to whether a ketogenic diet could have a stabilising effect on mood in some people in the same way that some anticonvulsants do.
Ketosis can certainly have an anti convulsant effect.
But again, just my speculative example of a possible correlation between diet and mental health. The link doesn't seem impossible to me.
Anecdotally, I tried it (ketosis) for a time and noticed a reduction in symptoms - however, it was hard on my kidneys and thus incompatible with my medication.
I would be very careful with it since you are bipolar. You may be okay with it since you are type one, but if you are susceptible to depression due to brain chemical imbalance I would keep a very close eye on it if you wish to try it. I shared my experience with that once, and apparently I wasn't the only one. Crippling depression with suicidal thoughts every time I attempted a ketogenic diet. Someone even posted a link (which I lost) how there was a link that has been studied. Apparently not everyone is affected like that, might have to do with something being psychological vs chemical, not entirely sure. Some report improvements in their depression that may be true or perceived (as is the case with many who start a different diet and feel good about doing something good for their health).
This is also completely true of mood stabilizers, though. Abilify has an FDA black box warning for completed suicide. The closest I've ever been to killing myself was when I was taking that drug. And there is no way of knowing when a person claims to be helped by it if it is simply the placebo effect.2 -
nokanjaijo wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Ketogenic diets have been used for many years in patients (particularly children) with some forms of medication resistant epilepsy to help reduce seizures.
Interestingly, there is a huge crossover of therapeutic class with many anticonvulsant drugs used as mood stabilisers. Sodium valproate is a good example. As is lamotrigine.
I am curious as to whether a ketogenic diet could have a stabilising effect on mood in some people in the same way that some anticonvulsants do.
Ketosis can certainly have an anti convulsant effect.
But again, just my speculative example of a possible correlation between diet and mental health. The link doesn't seem impossible to me.
Anecdotally, I tried it (ketosis) for a time and noticed a reduction in symptoms - however, it was hard on my kidneys and thus incompatible with my medication.
I would be very careful with it since you are bipolar. You may be okay with it since you are type one, but if you are susceptible to depression due to brain chemical imbalance I would keep a very close eye on it if you wish to try it. I shared my experience with that once, and apparently I wasn't the only one. Crippling depression with suicidal thoughts every time I attempted a ketogenic diet. Someone even posted a link (which I lost) how there was a link that has been studied. Apparently not everyone is affected like that, might have to do with something being psychological vs chemical, not entirely sure. Some report improvements in their depression that may be true or perceived (as is the case with many who start a different diet and feel good about doing something good for their health).
This is also completely true of mood stabilizers, though. Abilify has an FDA black box warning for completed suicide. The closest I've ever been to killing myself was when I was taking that drug. And there is no way of knowing when a person claims to be helped by it if it is simply the placebo effect.
And SSRIs.
I used to work in the Pharmacogenetics field. There are many people who have suicidal/homicidal reactions to some SSRIs. Caution in all things.
I think there is absolutely a food angle on any disease. We are just so dang complicated. I know my physical and emotional health are helped by a nutrition plan and exercise - and it has to be consistent, like medicine. I can't skip days or go off-plan without noticing a (albeit slight) difference in mood and coping ability. But I have a whole list of stuff that has to work together, not just food.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.2 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?
Not sure why you are asking a question about "curing" any health condition because that is a loaded word that can never be proven. I know some medical professionals and patients view one's diet may have an impact on most any health condition.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004718/
Dietary Intake of Patients with Schizophrenia
"From a physical health perspective, the observed pattern of above-average caloric intake from a diet rich in saturated fat and sugar seems worrisome. Health burdens of such a constellation are apparent. High fat intake per se, for example, has been linked to a variety of medical problems such as coronary artery disease, hypertension, and cancer.27 It may also predispose schizophrenia patients to premature death from complications of these disorders.28 They already have a decreased life expectancy,29 and the overtly high total fat intake together with a pattern of low fruit and vegetable consumption may only accelerate this trend.
From the mental health perspective, the patients' subjective assessment of quality of life is considered to be a critical outcome variable in the care of individuals with schizophrenia.30 Patients already suffer from low quality of life inherent to the chronic nature of their illness.31 Overweight only further impairs quality of life.17 Distress related to high body weight is a modifiable factor, and the quality of life of schizophrenic patients can be improved substantially by proper weight management, apart from obvious advantages for physical health.15"
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652467/
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
"Abstract
We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.
Conclusion
While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet."
ibpf.org/blog/how-food-changed-bipolar-disorder-me
How Food Changed Bipolar Disorder For Me
"Controlling our Bipolar Disorder is a full time job, even during the good times. We have meds, psychotherapy, and other standard treatments. However, have you considered food as a form of treatment? I've discovered there are certain foods that help me keep the Bipolar roller coaster on the up side."
Do you read the links you post? That person still takes medication and a careful read of the foods list pretty much shows a whole foods diet full of whole grains, proteins, and vegetables so he's got stable blood sugar that doesn't affect his mood. That's what he attributes his dietary intervention effectiveness to.
He's paid attention to his reactions (like headaches and brain fog) to certain things and eliminated them.
These are things any sensible person with any chronic condition who takes a proactive stance on managing their health does to better their quality of life.
It doesn't make the case for food as medicine. It might make the case for the importance of self-care and engagement in the process of such for people suffering from mental illness.
Thankfully it does make a case that food like Rx meds can help or hurt a pre existing physical and/or medical conditions.
Not necessarily. A proper diet can affect mood in anyone. I see that in my children, for pity's sake. It's more important in people with chronic conditions to be on point with diet and weight management, though. I'd agree with that.
Again, this is completely true of prescription medication.0
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