Bodyweight exercise vs. Weightlifting
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born_of_fire74 wrote: »Effect of an exercise will depend largely on the resistance. You cannot characterize all "body weight" exercises vs all "weight lifting" exercise without addressing relative resistance. A pushup that represents an 8RM level of resistance, for example, will have similar muscle activation as an 8 RM bench press with a barbell. (There is research to support this).
It's always unfortunate when health professionals make general blanket statements about exercise. There is very little about exercise training that is black and white.
It is very possible that they said things in regards to me only due to my past injuries, fitness level, form, posture etc. rather than regarding all people in general. I qualified my statements quite carefully so as not to mislead the OP.
Also, the whole thing is a sliding scale, isn't it? I can tell you from experience that it's possible to injure yourself switching positions while laying on your couch binge watching Breaking Bad. But I would venture to guess that this activity is measurably safer than squatting your own body weight.4 -
i want to add that there are some body weight exercises you may never progress from , like conventional squats. you can easily max that out on your first squat and DL is pretty much impossible to do a body weight DL that will make a difference. But things like pullups and pushups, or handstand pushups, plank variations, All those can have lots of progression and some people may get very strong and still not be able to do a pullup because it is so hard. Do a bunch or burpees, do jump squats and do plyo stuff and you will progress in that. Using something like a TRX adds a new element into body weight exercises that takes it to a whole new level that you can continue progressing. Even jogging is a bw exercise2
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Body weight exercise is too hard for me. I hate it. It's terrible. Give me a barbell.
People who are good at it and run a program look great though.1 -
For farmers walks to qualify as "bodyweight" exercise, I think you would have to carry two actual bodies.
as you get stronger you can progress to carrying bodies of different sizes in each hand too.
to the actual question: i personally do the compound lifts/barbell thing. and i personally feel like i personally am copping out just a tiny bit doing it. note all the 'personally's in that to deflect another high holy war over something i don't hold any strong opinions about when it's other folks doing or not doing it.
i've gotten pretty good at dealing with a non-me weight like a barbell, but from everything i've seen (and tried), i'm pretty sure that bodyweight-only calls for a degree of isometic control and a type of strength it would take me a whole brand-new noob phase to learn. it was pretty enlightening to see the rest of my barbell club (and me) try to master the turkish getup, to take just one example i am kind of attached to out of the 'bodyweight' world.0 -
I love bodyweight exercises. I also like lifting. Both are fairly different for me. Lifting is a bit repetitive, but more of a zen moment as concentrate on my whole body I could hurt myself quite badly if I did a big lift incorrectly. I do love the variability of bodyweights though. In the past I did some intervals consisting of variations of pushups, squats, lunges and core exercises. About 50 seconds for each, with 10 seconds break to change position and come up with a new variation that I'd not used before. My record is about 16 variations each (left and right counts as two though). It's much more playful for me. I certainly get muscular, and just doing bodyweights at the moment has inproved my posture again and my abs are starting to show. I do build muscles quite easily though, being a woman in her 40s. Guess I'm lucky
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The best exercise routine is the one you actually do.
If you cannot do a weight routine then a bodyweight routine is the best one available.
When traveling unless the hotel has a gym (a good one not just one or two old residential quality machines well past their prime.) then it is a body weight routine for me. Hotel gyms sometimes have stupid hours as well, not always open early enough for my schedule.
I also travel with a set of bands. Airlines don’t charge as much for those as for as taking dumbbells.
Mix up the routines and not get stuck in one rut is the best. If I don’t travel and get my quota of body weight exercises in then I will do them at home instead of the weight routines as well.
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I think body weight exercises would become easier over time if you kept loosing weight.0
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Any exercise is better than none. Bodyweight exercises are a great way to start off and later can be used for speed and endurance work.
Still some things I feel get glossed over and many feel that given the choice bodyweight is all that is needed. Let me ask this question given 3 people who would have easier time doing the below tasks? The 3 people are the same except the amount they lift. Person one can only squat and deadlift themselves with no extra weight. Person two can lift themselves and 50% of their bodyweight. Person 3 can lift themselves and 125% their bodyweight.- Lift a 5 year old child
- Lift a large full suitcase and backpack
- Move furniture
- Change tire
- Move cement bags for home improvement
- Move a larger color printer
IMHO person one likely doesn't do any exercise and would struggle quite a bit on any of these. Person 2 would likely do bodyweight exercises and could accomplish any of these goals but not as easily as person 3. Person 3 likely had to do some form of strength training with additional resistance. Once again personal opinion, strength makes everyday life easier. Every item you lift is a much lower percentage of your max.
The added benefit of higher strength is during awkward lifts you can be more out of perfect form and not injure yourself. Form is still paramount but sometimes it's hard to achieve say with a crying child. The added strength in your whole body including core from strength training acts as an insulator when dealing with weights that is a small percentage of your max. Not to say it will compensate if the lift was dumb just you can take a small shift in it better.
I am sorry but doing bodyweight squats is not going to give enough stress to encourage strength gains to compare with loading up the bar with 270lbs for me. I highly doubt it would for anyone at any weight. Most things I have read put optimal strength gains in the 3-6 rep range. You can gain strength at higher ranges but not nearly as quick. Hypertrophy, muscle gains, are in the 6-10 range and endurance is more in the 12-20 range if I remember right.
Once you reach a certain point bodyweight exercises will have diminishing returns on strength and muscle growth but increased returns on endurance. It's not that one is less than the other it's that there comes a time when they train different goals.
This isn't a very valid analogy. It's like saying who could run 10 miles in an emergency situation faster. Someone who doesn't run, someone who runs 5k's on occasion or someone who trains for marathons year round.
And there is a LOT more leg exercises beyond BW squats. I can't even begin to count the number of single leg variants that can get very difficult. It's not to say that BW is the end all be all, but for a lot of people, it would more than suffice. People only think pf the basics, when there is a whole world of advanced movements that aren't only upper body related.1 -
I just got back from vacation visiting my brother/sister-in-law in Flagstaff AZ. They are rock climbers; bouldering, mostly. It's bodyweight lifting but it's hard because gravity. My sister-in-law is 40, 5' tall and ripped beyond belief. it was humbling to spend time with them hiking, climbing, creek swimming.1
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This isn't a very valid analogy. It's like saying who could run 10 miles in an emergency situation faster. Someone who doesn't run, someone who runs 5k's on occasion or someone who trains for marathons year round.
And there is a LOT more leg exercises beyond BW squats. I can't even begin to count the number of single leg variants that can get very difficult. It's not to say that BW is the end all be all, but for a lot of people, it would more than suffice. People only think pf the basics, when there is a whole world of advanced movements that aren't only upper body related.
Your comparison is like saying who could pickup a Honda CBR 400 in an emergency. Weight is around 350 dry but you would like not pick it up more shift it. Not a 50lbs child. For your runner example who would have easier time running 1mile? Not faster but easier? Should everyone train for marathons, not likely. But should everyone just walk and never get heart above 60%, once again not likely.
I never said bodyweight training was bad. I in fact said it was good for certain goals. So instead of advocating that something is "good enough", I am advocating that strength makes everyday tasks easier. To increase that strength most people should lift weights at some point to keep progressing.
Just like people should do any cardio few times a week, but at a certain point you'll need to increase volume or intensity to push your cardiovascular fitness.0 -
I think body weight exercises would become easier over time if you kept loosing weight.
They get easier as you get stronger. But for that reason there are millions of variations. A bodyweight squat gets too easy? Work towards one-legged squats or pistols. Pushups too easy? Elevate the legs, hands closer together, clap your hands on the up, etc.1 -
This isn't a very valid analogy. It's like saying who could run 10 miles in an emergency situation faster. Someone who doesn't run, someone who runs 5k's on occasion or someone who trains for marathons year round.
And there is a LOT more leg exercises beyond BW squats. I can't even begin to count the number of single leg variants that can get very difficult. It's not to say that BW is the end all be all, but for a lot of people, it would more than suffice. People only think pf the basics, when there is a whole world of advanced movements that aren't only upper body related.
Your comparison is like saying who could pickup a Honda CBR 400 in an emergency. Weight is around 350 dry but you would like not pick it up more shift it. Not a 50lbs child. For your runner example who would have easier time running 1mile? Not faster but easier? Should everyone train for marathons, not likely. But should everyone just walk and never get heart above 60%, once again not likely.
I never said bodyweight training was bad. I in fact said it was good for certain goals. So instead of advocating that something is "good enough", I am advocating that strength makes everyday tasks easier. To increase that strength most people should lift weights at some point to keep progressing.
Just like people should do any cardio few times a week, but at a certain point you'll need to increase volume or intensity to push your cardiovascular fitness.
BW squats, especially single leg variants built as much, or more strength than up to 125% BW 2 leg loaded variants.
As can be demonstrated by the fact that anyone who can do a correct pistol with each leg can easily press 125-150% BW in a press(squat) or pull(Deadlift) The reverse is not true, because the person who can move150% BW in a 2 legged squat or DL does not have the core/balance strength to operate in the disadvantage that a pistol variant brings.0 -
I think body weight exercises would become easier over time if you kept loosing weight.
They get easier as you get stronger. But for that reason there are millions of variations. A bodyweight squat gets too easy? Work towards one-legged squats or pistols. Pushups too easy? Elevate the legs, hands closer together, clap your hands on the up, etc.
Pushup variants include 1 armed and inverted/elevated 1 arm... double/triple clap plyo variants. And for the truly advanced OAOL variant or elevated/inverted OAOL0 -
stanmann571 wrote: »This isn't a very valid analogy. It's like saying who could run 10 miles in an emergency situation faster. Someone who doesn't run, someone who runs 5k's on occasion or someone who trains for marathons year round.
And there is a LOT more leg exercises beyond BW squats. I can't even begin to count the number of single leg variants that can get very difficult. It's not to say that BW is the end all be all, but for a lot of people, it would more than suffice. People only think pf the basics, when there is a whole world of advanced movements that aren't only upper body related.
Your comparison is like saying who could pickup a Honda CBR 400 in an emergency. Weight is around 350 dry but you would like not pick it up more shift it. Not a 50lbs child. For your runner example who would have easier time running 1mile? Not faster but easier? Should everyone train for marathons, not likely. But should everyone just walk and never get heart above 60%, once again not likely.
I never said bodyweight training was bad. I in fact said it was good for certain goals. So instead of advocating that something is "good enough", I am advocating that strength makes everyday tasks easier. To increase that strength most people should lift weights at some point to keep progressing.
Just like people should do any cardio few times a week, but at a certain point you'll need to increase volume or intensity to push your cardiovascular fitness.
BW squats, especially single leg variants built as much, or more strength than up to 125% BW 2 leg loaded variants.
As can be demonstrated by the fact that anyone who can do a correct pistol with each leg can easily press 125-150% BW in a press(squat) or pull(Deadlift) The reverse is not true, because the person who can move150% BW in a 2 legged squat or DL does not have the core/balance strength to operate in the disadvantage that a pistol variant brings.
Can confirm - pistol squats = humbling experience!!
Also - Sissy squats.2 -
StealthHealth wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »This isn't a very valid analogy. It's like saying who could run 10 miles in an emergency situation faster. Someone who doesn't run, someone who runs 5k's on occasion or someone who trains for marathons year round.
And there is a LOT more leg exercises beyond BW squats. I can't even begin to count the number of single leg variants that can get very difficult. It's not to say that BW is the end all be all, but for a lot of people, it would more than suffice. People only think pf the basics, when there is a whole world of advanced movements that aren't only upper body related.
Your comparison is like saying who could pickup a Honda CBR 400 in an emergency. Weight is around 350 dry but you would like not pick it up more shift it. Not a 50lbs child. For your runner example who would have easier time running 1mile? Not faster but easier? Should everyone train for marathons, not likely. But should everyone just walk and never get heart above 60%, once again not likely.
I never said bodyweight training was bad. I in fact said it was good for certain goals. So instead of advocating that something is "good enough", I am advocating that strength makes everyday tasks easier. To increase that strength most people should lift weights at some point to keep progressing.
Just like people should do any cardio few times a week, but at a certain point you'll need to increase volume or intensity to push your cardiovascular fitness.
BW squats, especially single leg variants built as much, or more strength than up to 125% BW 2 leg loaded variants.
As can be demonstrated by the fact that anyone who can do a correct pistol with each leg can easily press 125-150% BW in a press(squat) or pull(Deadlift) The reverse is not true, because the person who can move150% BW in a 2 legged squat or DL does not have the core/balance strength to operate in the disadvantage that a pistol variant brings.
Can confirm - pistol squats = humbling experience!!
Also - Sissy squats.
Sissy squats?=floating lunge or some other exercise?
OK, I looked that up, and watched the step through.. my knees hurt(no I didn't actually do any)0 -
http://www.robkingfitness.com/bodyweight-workouts/sissy-squat/
I've never attempted a weighted version - I'm far too concerned with dealing with the burn and trying not to fall over to do any type other than "body-weight-whilst-clinging-on-to -something-sturdy-for-dear-life"1 -
stanmann571 wrote: »This isn't a very valid analogy. It's like saying who could run 10 miles in an emergency situation faster. Someone who doesn't run, someone who runs 5k's on occasion or someone who trains for marathons year round.
And there is a LOT more leg exercises beyond BW squats. I can't even begin to count the number of single leg variants that can get very difficult. It's not to say that BW is the end all be all, but for a lot of people, it would more than suffice. People only think pf the basics, when there is a whole world of advanced movements that aren't only upper body related.
Your comparison is like saying who could pickup a Honda CBR 400 in an emergency. Weight is around 350 dry but you would like not pick it up more shift it. Not a 50lbs child. For your runner example who would have easier time running 1mile? Not faster but easier? Should everyone train for marathons, not likely. But should everyone just walk and never get heart above 60%, once again not likely.
I never said bodyweight training was bad. I in fact said it was good for certain goals. So instead of advocating that something is "good enough", I am advocating that strength makes everyday tasks easier. To increase that strength most people should lift weights at some point to keep progressing.
Just like people should do any cardio few times a week, but at a certain point you'll need to increase volume or intensity to push your cardiovascular fitness.
BW squats, especially single leg variants built as much, or more strength than up to 125% BW 2 leg loaded variants.
As can be demonstrated by the fact that anyone who can do a correct pistol with each leg can easily press 125-150% BW in a press(squat) or pull(Deadlift) The reverse is not true, because the person who can move150% BW in a 2 legged squat or DL does not have the core/balance strength to operate in the disadvantage that a pistol variant brings.
Absolutely agree with this. I can squat above bodyweight and deadlift 1.4x bodyweight, but am struggling big style with single leg squats, my balance simply isn't quite there.0
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