Should I slow my rate of loss? I don't want to lose too much muscle.

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animatorswearbras
animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
Hi Folks I'm nearly at goal, however is a pound a week too detrimental? I average net about 1500 cals and never gross less than my BMR on any given day I also eat at maintenance on the weekends (so a kind of intermittent fasting I guess), I don't cut anything out although I do try to get a bit of extra protein in (but sometimes fail)

The thing is I don't feel like I'm restricting that much and am quite comfortable, at the beginning of this year when I was overweight I was losing half a pound a week and the past couple of months I've been averaging a pound a week with the same deficit, although my net cals graph only goes back 90 days so can't tell for sure, but I feel like my metabolism has increased. I was diagnosed with PCOS at the beginning of the year which gave me a bit of a kick up the bum to lose by my doctor so perhaps losing weight has lessened some of the symptoms? (I don't take any medication for PCOS as my doctor told me to try to lose weight first)

So my question is can I crack on losing at this rate until I hit goal or should I slow it down? I don't want to throw away any lean mass for the sake of the number on the scale.

Stats: Female
Age 34
SW Jan 2017 - 152 (belly measurement 35")
CW 135 (belly measurement 30")
GW 125-133 bit of a range, happy anywhere in here just trying to achieve a less fluffy belly :)
Height 5'5"

activity - lightly active I walk on average 7500 steps a day as I walk to work but have a desk job
Workouts - 2 x HIIT/circuit training/boot camp sessions a week 45-60 minutes a sesh. Good mix of strength and cardio in my uneducated opinion. :)

My diarys open (sorry it's not very clean, but I'm a pretty honest logger)

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Cheers and thanks in advance for any advice.

:)


Replies

  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    If you want to retain LBM in preference to BF, you will want to move to a more strength based training routine.
  • orangegato
    orangegato Posts: 6,570 Member
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    BTW, cool user name!
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
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    stanmann571 wrote: »
    If you want to retain LBM in preference to BF, you will want to move to a more strength based training routine.

    Is the HIIT/circuit training not enough to retain LBM? I don't have the room for weights at home and can't afford a gym membership, the only exercise I could do would be using my own body as a gym, I could maybe invest in resistance bands as they don't need much storage space. We tend to go around all 3 muscle groups (as in legs, core, arms) in the boot camp class with intense cardio inbetween sets.

    Examples of exercises pressups and variations, tricep dips, resistance band work like lateral raises etc. Core is bicycle crunches, sit ups, leg raises, russian twists, v sits, planks and variations, legs is jump lunges, jump squats, wall sits, (plus a bunch of other stuff I can't remember off the top of my head) cardio is sprinting, knee ups, broad jumps, burpees, mountain climbers, bear crawls, crab walks, military star jumps, jumping jacks with resistance bands etc

    I feel I've got much stronger, I used to not be able to do full pressups but now can and my measurements are now smaller than when I got married although I am heavier. I've also had fitness tests since starting to measure improvement.

    xartg3y23hkl.jpg


    Fitness test from the 20th June, aimed for full press ups so did less than previous which were knee press ups, however I still did 1/2 press ups for the fitness test. The first 3 tests were how many I could do in a minute, second 2 were how long I could hold a plank and a wall sit. Is this not strength exercises? Sorry for being confused about what counts as strength training surely progressive weights can't be the only way?

    Thanks for the reply.

  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    That is a good start/base, but realistically, you're reaching the limit of basic calisthenics.

    Pushups, Pullups, squats, dips, floating lunges(single leg deadlift) are some progressions, but what that sheet shows is a relatively low level of strength(I'm not being critical, you're at the beginning of your journey)

    So some questions. What plank variation are you doing? Elbows or full high plank? Once you get beyond 3 minutes, you're going to need to incorporated variations to continue increasing strength... One arm or One Leg(3 point plank) One arm/One leg(2 point plank) Frogstand/planche(2 point) Low plank(down position of pushup)

    There's no need to go beyond bodyweight to progress. But you do have to move beyond traditional exercises to continue to progress.

    For pushups, variations include elevating feet or inverting(inverting works the shoulders not the chest) and working for 3 or 2 points of contact instead of 4.

  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
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    orangegato wrote: »
    BTW, cool user name!

    Ha it's what I do and what I wear! (Also it was the "edgetastic" handle I came up with at the tender age of 19 at uni ;P)
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
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    stanmann571 wrote: »
    That is a good start/base, but realistically, you're reaching the limit of basic calisthenics.

    Pushups, Pullups, squats, dips, floating lunges(single leg deadlift) are some progressions, but what that sheet shows is a relatively low level of strength(I'm not being critical, you're at the beginning of your journey)

    So some questions. What plank variation are you doing? Elbows or full high plank? Once you get beyond 3 minutes, you're going to need to incorporated variations to continue increasing strength... One arm or One Leg(3 point plank) One arm/One leg(2 point plank) Frogstand/planche(2 point) Low plank(down position of pushup)

    There's no need to go beyond bodyweight to progress. But you do have to move beyond traditional exercises to continue to progress.

    For pushups, variations include elevating feet or inverting(inverting works the shoulders not the chest) and working for 3 or 2 points of contact instead of 4.

    For the fitness test it was an elbow plank, but we do walking planks, side planks, leg elevated planks etc in the class. Same for push ups we do normal, shoulder? (broad) and tricep (arms tucked in more)

    Also I realise its a low level of strength but I thought it was pretty good progress and more of an example that I'd improved and maybe built or retained some muscle ;P
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    animatorswearbras wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    That is a good start/base, but realistically, you're reaching the limit of basic calisthenics.

    Pushups, Pullups, squats, dips, floating lunges(single leg deadlift) are some progressions, but what that sheet shows is a relatively low level of strength(I'm not being critical, you're at the beginning of your journey)

    So some questions. What plank variation are you doing? Elbows or full high plank? Once you get beyond 3 minutes, you're going to need to incorporated variations to continue increasing strength... One arm or One Leg(3 point plank) One arm/One leg(2 point plank) Frogstand/planche(2 point) Low plank(down position of pushup)

    There's no need to go beyond bodyweight to progress. But you do have to move beyond traditional exercises to continue to progress.

    For pushups, variations include elevating feet or inverting(inverting works the shoulders not the chest) and working for 3 or 2 points of contact instead of 4.

    For the fitness test it was an elbow plank, but we do walking planks, side planks, leg elevated planks etc in the class. Same for push ups we do normal, shoulder? (broad) and tricep (arms tucked in more)

    Also I realise its a low level of strength but I thought it was pretty good progress and more of an example that I'd improved and maybe built or retained some muscle ;P

    You've done great and you have a good basic foundation to build on. I love doing callisthenic circuits as a change of pace/morale/group event, They're fun, and will leave you feeling gassed. But feeling gassed isn't the same as building skill strength, or core strength, or strength endurance, or explosive strength, or pure strength.

    It is good progress, but the way ahead is harder, and more interesting... and more fun(see my profile photo)

    Once you hit the range of 1 pushup/situp per second for 30-60 seconds, you've as strong as you're going to get from pushups/situps. You've come a long way. And now need to choose a path, that can be bodyweight/gymnastic, or Barbell progressive strength, or Dumbell progressive strength, or Kettlebell progressive/explosive strength.

    If you're happy with where you're at, there's nothing wrong with that. But you're approaching the limit of what the current program you're working can do as far as building/maintaining strength.
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
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    Thanks for the advice, however going back to my first question assuming I don't change my routine too dramatically and my strength goals aren't much more than being healthy is my rate of loss for the last few pounds okay or too aggressive? :)
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,728 Member
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    animatorswearbras wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice, however going back to my first question assuming I don't change my routine too dramatically and my strength goals aren't much more than being healthy is my rate of loss for the last few pounds okay or too aggressive? :)

    Given your goals and routine, unless your rate of loss is extreme(Greater than 2 lb per week/1% per week whichever is less) , it's unlikely to impact the ratio of fat/muscle loss.
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    edited August 2017
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    I strongly agree with the stuff that @stanmann571 has posted but wanted to add:

    In a recent podcast interview with Martin MacDonald he talked about the most aggressive weight loss possible without muscle loss and specifically referenced some work he had done with Alan Aragon on the subject.

    His view was that, based upon the total available energy from adipose a decent rule of thumb, for strength training individuals (of which I think you are - you're not flinging Olympic bars around but performing challenging strength work) was:

    (%BF / 15*) = % of body weight per week loss without significant muscle loss.

    The big issue we have here is that you don;t know your %BF (in fact most people don't) but lets guesstimate and see where we get.

    Average female %BF is 25-31%, lets call it 28% and say that this is where you are.

    So,

    28/15 = 1.866% per week loss. Based on your weight of 135lb that is 2.5lb per week.

    But, not all researches agree with Martin/Alan's figures of 15. Lyle MacDonald has a more aggressive figure of 13 and Greg Nuckolsl goes for a conservative 20.

    Let's take "worst case scenario" for potential muscle loss and say that you're carrying above average muscle and we'll use Greg's 20 figure:

    25/20 = 1.25% per week = 1.68lb per week.

    So, it looks like at your current loss of 1lb per week is well within the margin of error for fat loss without significant muscle loss.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhLIsFFsPAA

    (28 mins mark) for the stuff above.
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
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    Ah brilliant! That's good to know, thanks everyone! Maybe the progressive strength building will be my next goal I just wanted to check I was being healthy and not binning toooooo much muscle off. :)
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
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    also according to this (obviously not super accurate) calculator but apparently what the US military uses I'm 24% BF with a 1-3% error (think I converted into cm and rounded up as it only allows 1 inch increments) but I guess that would still give me some wiggle room for the 1 pound loss. :)

    https://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/body-fat-percentage-calculator

    Based on these measurements
    Height 5'5"
    Wrist 6"
    CW 135
    Forearm 8.75
    Neck 13.5
    bust - 36.5
    waist (smallest part) - 28.25
    belly 30
    bum/widest part of hips 36.75
    right thigh 20.5
    right calf - 13.5
    right bingo wing - 10.1
    right bicep - 9.5
    left thigh 20.25
    left calf - 13.5
    left bingo wing - 10.2
    left bicep - 10.2
    Shoulder circumference - 41

    Who knows what my real BF is without some proper equipment though :P
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
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    @StealthHealth I'm watching the maintenance vid now that followed on, these are eye opening! Great stuff! Thankyou for sharing!
  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
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    I've not watched that one yet but will do so. I think the Revive Stronger channel is good but ANYTHING my Martin MacDonald seems to be brilliant. I have much respect for him.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,170 Member
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    One contrary thought: If your data suggests you got some NEAT improvement recently, and you're very close to goal weight, it could be fun to start gradually adding calories, focus on workouts as you've mentioned, and see if you can find the energy to move your NEAT up even a little further, as you coast into maintenance calories.

    I'm not arguing with any of the solid advice above: Just pointing out that you'll need to be moving to maintenance calories eventually, and that some of us find it useful to do it gradually rather than as a bigger jump. (I did.)
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    One contrary thought: If your data suggests you got some NEAT improvement recently, and you're very close to goal weight, it could be fun to start gradually adding calories, focus on workouts as you've mentioned, and see if you can find the energy to move your NEAT up even a little further, as you coast into maintenance calories.

    I'm not arguing with any of the solid advice above: Just pointing out that you'll need to be moving to maintenance calories eventually, and that some of us find it useful to do it gradually rather than as a bigger jump. (I did.)

    This is originally what I thought would be best, to start a gradual increase (would my NEAT really increase? Sorry I have a very amateur grasp of these acronyms and their meanings eg still not 100% sure of the difference between BMR and RMR), I guess both ways are no harm though and both have pros and cons, either ease into it or get it over with and start concentrating on maintenance sooner. Maybe I'll wait for another few pounds till I get into my maintenance "range" perhaps at the 130 pound mark then start taking my foot off the accelerator, kind of a bit from advice column a and a bit from advice column b? ;)
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,170 Member
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    animatorswearbras wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    One contrary thought: If your data suggests you got some NEAT improvement recently, and you're very close to goal weight, it could be fun to start gradually adding calories, focus on workouts as you've mentioned, and see if you can find the energy to move your NEAT up even a little further, as you coast into maintenance calories.

    I'm not arguing with any of the solid advice above: Just pointing out that you'll need to be moving to maintenance calories eventually, and that some of us find it useful to do it gradually rather than as a bigger jump. (I did.)

    This is originally what I thought would be best, to start a gradual increase (would my NEAT really increase? Sorry I have a very amateur grasp of these acronyms and their meanings eg still not 100% sure of the difference between BMR and RMR), I guess both ways are no harm though and both have pros and cons, either ease into it or get it over with and start concentrating on maintenance sooner. Maybe I'll wait for another few pounds till I get into my maintenance "range" perhaps at the 130 pound mark then start taking my foot off the accelerator, kind of a bit from advice column a and a bit from advice column b? ;)

    To the bolded: Not guaranteed in any way, but some people seem to experience some improvement in energy level as their calorie level gradually increases, so they're a bit more active in everyday life, and hit the workouts with a bit more intensity. The effect would be a slightly higher maintenance calorie level. Pushing yourself intentionally a bit as you have higher calories coming in might help this happen. Worth a try, maybe?

    I can't swear to you that I got that effect - I maintain at higher calories than the calculators estimate, but I also lost at higher calories. I did like the opportunity to experimentally verify maintenance calories by easing up to it, and liked adding small increments of nutritious calories to my daily routine, rather than trying to add 500-1000 daily all in one big jolt (I think that would've made me more likely to add a single calorific food, rather than the diverse pleasant small improvements ;) ).

    FWIW, I added 100 or so calories at a time, then waited be certain of the result (i.e. to rule out random fluctuations). That meant each add was followed by a longer wait, for obvious reasons. With a maintenance range target of 117-123, I started the process around 122, in mid-January (2016) and stopped adding maybe mid-March to April, hitting a low of 116 in the process.
  • animatorswearbras
    animatorswearbras Posts: 1,001 Member
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    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    I did like the opportunity to experimentally verify maintenance calories by easing up to it, and liked adding small increments of nutritious calories to my daily routine, rather than trying to add 500-1000 daily all in one big jolt (I think that would've made me more likely to add a single calorific food, rather than the diverse pleasant small improvements ;) ).

    Yeah that 500 or so calorie bump does look like a giant cartoon burger or chocolate fudge muffin in my brain box (jk), you're probably quite right though ;)

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