Just starting Keto and at a total loss.
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jackmcnasty wrote: »Keto isn't magical but it works. I am a nutrition coach and I use ketogenic diets to help people lose weight. I have yet to see someone who isn't successful on this way of eating if they actually follow it. I personally have lost over 125lbs and maintained it on low carb/keto for 12 years.
calorie restriction is utter garbage. I have challenged other "nutrition experts" to present me with a client that has lost over 100 lbs on a calorie restriction diet and maintained it for even 5 years. I've yet to see one.
I have done several experiments having people over feed by double their caloric intake for 21 days and either gain less than 1lb body fat or actually still lose weight. The key to the ketogenic diet is not calories but hormones. Specifically insulin and glucagon. Look into type 1 diabetics. If not on insulin they can eat unlimited amounts of calories and still waste away to nothing and die. How do we think this happens if calories matter? It is because when insulin is not present to control glucagon, energy is pushed from cells without regard of requirement. Glucose gets released to blood and blood sugar rises, fat gets released from fat cells and turns to ketones, amino acids get converted to glucose and nitrogen and much of the energy is urinated out. The type 1 wastes away no matter how much they eat or how much they move. Not because they aren't eating but because hormones are not regulated.
In a proper ketogenic diet insulin is kept low which makes glucagon high. They are counter regulatory hormones. One high, the other low. Insulin stores, glucagon releases. The only difference between regular people and type 1s is that we have beta cells in our pancreas and can release insulin to regulate the energy release from the glucagon when ketones or blood sugar get too high.
People really do not understand human physiology. we are not machines. We do not burn food. Calories are a measure of energy released by burning food. We metabolize not burn. Each different macronutrient has a different hormonal/chemical response. It is not a simple input/output scenario as all the CICOpaths would have you believe and we didn't all of a sudden become lazy gluttonous people. It is the food landscape that has changed not us.
All weight loss plans are based on calorie restriction, regardless of what other parameters the plan puts in place. Low carb/keto is just one of the many ways to go about creating a calorie deficit.
As for maintenance-lots of people on this site are maintaining large weight losses, following all sorts of maintenance protocols. They all have one thing in common though-they've found the correct calorie balance to maintain their current weight.
I've been maintaining my 50lb loss for 4 years, 3 months now. Check out the Success section or the Maintaining section to see all the others who are maintaining here.
I'm also a participant in the NWCR, (National Weight Control Registry), which tracks successful maintainers. I'd suggest checking it out and seeing what common themes they've found among the thousands of participants, (many who hang out here btw).5 -
If keto weight loss is because keto not calories, why aren't people losing weight until they die? How do you stop the fat loss when you want it to?15
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I've maintained my original loss of 70 pounds in my first year and gone on to lose more weight (90 pounds in total so far) through calorie restriction. I've been at this three years now. Riddle me how this works, if the only way to do it is keto and calorie restriction doesn't work?
I am most satiated by protein and starchy carbs like potatoes and brown rice and oatmeal. I eat a low fat diet, around 40 grams a day seems to be my sweet spot.
I low carbed for ten years without counting calories. I never got below 150 pounds because I never experienced the satiating effects of the diet that you're supposed to feel.
I'll stick with counting calories.
For the record, I'm a short, menopausal woman with thyroid disease.
Keto can be great for people who find fat satiating, but they still need to control calories in order to lose weight. Many of them find that the satiating properties of the diet (satiation is individual and since in their cases fat is satiating) naturally regulate their appetites so that they are creating a deficit without really having to conscientiously count because their hunger regulates their intake appropriately.
I'm not sure if this is applicable to people on keto who are very active, though.
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Op-I do a higher carb plan, along with IF, because that's what works best for me. But there was lots of trial and error involved, before I got to this point. No harm in trying keto -it might be a great fit for you and help you hit you hit your calorie targets. And, if after a while you find it's not a good fit, then you'll be able to use what you learned through the process to find something else that does click.1
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teepuppylove wrote: »It always seems to me that the lacking advice in these forums is - go talk to your Doctor and a certified nutritionist.
While Keto isn't magic and is healthy for most- it also is unhealthy for people with certain medical issues. Like, if I were to eat a ketogenic diet it would adversely affect my thyroid as I have hypothyroidism and am on medication to regulate it.
Also, to make sure you are in Ketosis you are supposed to measure your ketones via blood or urine. From your post it seems like all of this would be too much work for what you are looking to do.
Honestly, it seems you would be better just watching your calorie intake and trying to eat more healthfully.
The part about seeing a doctor is 1) suggested whenever one signs onto any type of weight loss or fitness program. It's usually at the forefront in the not-so-fine print, and 2) suggested once more in the forums when someone reports doing everything 100% perfectly but isn't seeing the expected results, which isn't the case with the OP.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »MommaGem2017 wrote: »MommaGem2017 wrote: »mmcguire876 wrote: »I am so stinkin' sick & tired of hearing about the whole 'Keto'/low-carb diet phase! It's a sham the diet industry has people hooked on, just like the low-fat craze in the '80's and '90's. Nothing healthy about doing keto and low carb. In fact, being in a ketogenic state is actually dangerous. Why do you think diabetics die when they get ketogenic? Non diabetics aren't immune to the dangers of keto genics either. Carbs are absolutely necessary and healthy. People run into trouble when they OVEReat carbs or eat the wrong type/too many carbs. Overeating any of the macronutrients will lead the body to storing it as fat.
^^THIS, so this^^ A keto diet is really not a magic pill.
I keep getting woo'd for this, but seriously... a keto diet is not some magical way to lose weight. Following a keto diet... with a calorie deficit... will help you lose weight. But ANY kind of diet structure, with a calorie deficit, will do it. If the OP is "at a total loss" I want to make sure she knows that a simple CICO is also an option for her.
I guess the "magical" thing about keto for me was that it decreased my appetite and pretty much nixed my cravings, which made losing weight effortless.
If people who have struggled with their weight/appetite/cravings for years also have this same experience, then it could feel magical to them too.
This^^ is how keto works for weight loss. It's just a semi-normal way of eating that takes advantage of the satiating qualities of proteins and fats. If it's working for you, go for it, but don't fall into the trap of calling it a low carb diet or that not having all those carbs is what's working. It isn't the lack of carbs making the magic happen. Just keep that in mind for when you're all done your weight loss.
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Hi ...I just joined here yesterday....I am new to the whole keto thing too, and all the grams and ml have me in a kerfuffle! LOL.....One key thing that I have learned is you need to consume healthy fats not just any fats. As shown in that nice diagram from Ruatine This site I came across yesterday has a lot of info https://www.ruled.me/guide-keto-diet/ and also Dr. Mercola....http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/09/04/ketogenic-nutritional-ketosis.aspx
If you take in less calories you will lose weight, but you want to eat nutrient dense foods, so your body can function well. Make one small change and keep at it. There are many paths to weight loss and optimum health, we just need to get started to see changes. 7 -
Hi ...I just joined here yesterday....I am new to the whole keto thing too, and all the grams and ml have me in a kerfuffle! LOL.....One key thing that I have learned is you need to consume healthy fats not just any fats. As shown in that nice diagram from Ruatine This site I came across yesterday has a lot of info https://www.ruled.me/guide-keto-diet/ and also Dr. Mercola....http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/09/04/ketogenic-nutritional-ketosis.aspx
If you take in less calories you will lose weight, but you want to eat nutrient dense foods, so your body can function well. Make one small change and keep at it. There are many paths to weight loss and optimum health, we just need to get started to see changes.
FYI, Mercola is not a good source of information. He tells people that sunscreen will cause cancer and is an HIV denialist.10 -
https://draxe.com/keto-diet-food-list/ might help....
Baconslave said it right.....keep it simple, it does not need to be complicated.4 -
teepuppylove wrote: »It always seems to me that the lacking advice in these forums is - go talk to your Doctor and a certified nutritionist.
While Keto isn't magic and is healthy for most- it also is unhealthy for people with certain medical issues. Like, if I were to eat a ketogenic diet it would adversely affect my thyroid as I have hypothyroidism and am on medication to regulate it.
Also, to make sure you are in Ketosis you are supposed to measure your ketones via blood or urine. From your post it seems like all of this would be too much work for what you are looking to do.
Honestly, it seems you would be better just watching your calorie intake and trying to eat more healthfully.
My thyroid is basically non-functioning but I eat a ketogenic diet to help manage my autoimmune issues, including hashimoto's. Low carb is fine for hypothyroidism.
Measuring ketones is interesting but not needed. If one is under 20-50g of carbs per day you can be certain that you are relying on fat more than glucose for energy. Plus the urine test only shows your excess ketones. I rarely showed ketones in my urine after 5-6 months in ketosis because I no longer was spilling excess into my urine.0 -
First post on MFP but just wanted to weigh in.
I Follow Keto and IF fairly strictly to under 20g carbs a day and less than 1500 cals. I'm down from 110kg (242lb) at my heaviest 3 months ago to 93kg (205lb) now.
I work on the oil rigs 6 weeks on and 3 weeks off and only follow Keto when I'm at work, although I am still lower carb than I used to be when I'm at home (switched to Vodka and diet coke from Beer) My weight goes up 3kg when I'm not at work and when I come back I lose it in the first 2 days so must just be water/Glycogen.
People can say what they want about this diet but it's what works for me. Tried everything else out there with results that were unsustainable. Have more energy now and started going to the gym again this week. Also quit smoking a few days after starting Keto, feeling great about everything nowadays.3 -
Christine_72 wrote: »MommaGem2017 wrote: »MommaGem2017 wrote: »mmcguire876 wrote: »I am so stinkin' sick & tired of hearing about the whole 'Keto'/low-carb diet phase! It's a sham the diet industry has people hooked on, just like the low-fat craze in the '80's and '90's. Nothing healthy about doing keto and low carb. In fact, being in a ketogenic state is actually dangerous. Why do you think diabetics die when they get ketogenic? Non diabetics aren't immune to the dangers of keto genics either. Carbs are absolutely necessary and healthy. People run into trouble when they OVEReat carbs or eat the wrong type/too many carbs. Overeating any of the macronutrients will lead the body to storing it as fat.
^^THIS, so this^^ A keto diet is really not a magic pill.
I keep getting woo'd for this, but seriously... a keto diet is not some magical way to lose weight. Following a keto diet... with a calorie deficit... will help you lose weight. But ANY kind of diet structure, with a calorie deficit, will do it. If the OP is "at a total loss" I want to make sure she knows that a simple CICO is also an option for her.
I guess the "magical" thing about keto for me was that it decreased my appetite and pretty much nixed my cravings, which made losing weight effortless.
If people who have struggled with their weight/appetite/cravings for years also have this same experience, then it could feel magical to them too.
This^^ is how keto works for weight loss. It's just a semi-normal way of eating that takes advantage of the satiating qualities of proteins and fats. If it's working for you, go for it, but don't fall into the trap of calling it a low carb diet or that not having all those carbs is what's working. It isn't the lack of carbs making the magic happen. Just keep that in mind for when you're all done your weight loss.
Yes. It almost does feel magical when it works for you. You flip a dietary switch and suddenly weight loss becomes easier and health improves. Not for everyone, but when it works it works well.
I don't know if it is the satiating effects of fat and protein for me. My protein is pretty moderate and always has been. For me, I think it has more to do with cutting carbs. I can add carbs on top of my usual LCHF caloric intake and end up hungrier and with greater cravings AFTER eating extra in carbs.2 -
jackmcnasty wrote: »
calorie restriction is utter garbage. I have challenged other "nutrition experts" to present me with a client that has lost over 100 lbs on a calorie restriction diet and maintained it for even 5 years. I've yet to see one.
You might want to check out the National Weight Control Registry. Every person on there has lost at least 30 lb (some as much as 300 lb) and kept it off.
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Thank you all for your time and advice. I plan to do keto as a "jump start" to learning to control my eating. Thus far it has been working beautifully. I don't feel as hungry and it has been way easier to stop eating when I notice I am approaching my calorie goal. I've never been able to do that on just reducing calories.
Some here say it's a hard diet to maintain as I will eventually want carbs. I admit I looked at my brothers sandwhich with great interest today, but then made myself a lettuce wrap stuffed with chicken salad and lost that interest. Breads and pastas have never been a problem for me. I hate pasta and mist breads.. I like artisan breads though which is what my son had.
Once I'm to the point where I don't feel "starved" and can easily walk away from temptations, I will slowly introduce carbs back into my diet until I find MY sweet spot.
I have hypothyroidism and have seen posts for and against the keto diet with this disease. Seems no real studies have been done on it and since it's not a dangerous diet, I'll try it. I also don't have a gallbladder.. something else that has two opposing views butting heads about. Some say they have had no issues with the diet while others say you can't eat fats with no gallbladder. Well, we live in a society that doesn't limit fats regardless and they aren't suffering for it.
I don't need test strips to "check" if I'm in ketosis. If I limit carbs over an extended period of time, there will be no doubt that I'm in it.
I don't believe I can eat as much as I want.. in fact I'm hoping it will do the opposite! I don't WANT to eat more.. I want to eat less! Regular cico just isn't doing that for me. I will miss potatoes though.. I love potatoes with grilled onions.
I appreciate everyone's concern but I don't see this as magic or a miracle diet. I have seen this diet posted many times and dismissed it as another "fad" until a real human being with real results explained it to me. I understand this won't work for everyone.. especially not those who are vegetarian or vegan or love their breads.
As far as results go, my sister in law (sil) and bro have joined me on this plan. My bro lost 12lbs already. He hasn't been able to lose weight at all and he works HARD as an off shore fisherman. My sil hasn't lost yet but she keeps sneaking chips and soda. I've lost 7 lbs so far...and this is with having carbs randomly and accidentally..(potatoes).. I was still low carb but not keto low carb. That's why I plan to reintroduce carbs at a later date and test the gram amounts until I find that sweet spot.3 -
Christine_72 wrote: »MommaGem2017 wrote: »MommaGem2017 wrote: »mmcguire876 wrote: »I am so stinkin' sick & tired of hearing about the whole 'Keto'/low-carb diet phase! It's a sham the diet industry has people hooked on, just like the low-fat craze in the '80's and '90's. Nothing healthy about doing keto and low carb. In fact, being in a ketogenic state is actually dangerous. Why do you think diabetics die when they get ketogenic? Non diabetics aren't immune to the dangers of keto genics either. Carbs are absolutely necessary and healthy. People run into trouble when they OVEReat carbs or eat the wrong type/too many carbs. Overeating any of the macronutrients will lead the body to storing it as fat.
^^THIS, so this^^ A keto diet is really not a magic pill.
I keep getting woo'd for this, but seriously... a keto diet is not some magical way to lose weight. Following a keto diet... with a calorie deficit... will help you lose weight. But ANY kind of diet structure, with a calorie deficit, will do it. If the OP is "at a total loss" I want to make sure she knows that a simple CICO is also an option for her.
I guess the "magical" thing about keto for me was that it decreased my appetite and pretty much nixed my cravings, which made losing weight effortless.
If people who have struggled with their weight/appetite/cravings for years also have this same experience, then it could feel magical to them too.
I'll add on here. I've tried keto and it is not magical for me. It was a big departure from my normal diet (roughly equal calories from macros) so the high fat was difficult to sustain. However, I don't feel comfortable saying it's not magical for anyone. Who knows? We each have a different microbiome, and maybe some bacteria really are problematic and maybe starving them of carbs for a few weeks changes the balance for certain people in noticeable and helpful ways. Didn't for me, but I'm open to the possibility for others. There's an astounding number of neurotransmitters in the intestines, too, so the biome could conceivably impact things like serotonin and dopamine uptake. That could be perspective-changing. Quite possibly magical, even.
I don't know. I think we each have to treat ourselves like a science experiment. Make a hypothesis, try it out. Give the experiment time to produce meaningful results, and make lots of observations. OP, if you are up for putting in the effort, it is totally worth a 3-4 week try. Best to you.5 -
Keto is just a way to help you feel satiated at an appropriate calorie limit. Focus on eating reasonable amounts of fatty meat and lower carb veggies. Two burger patties with cheese and mashed garlic cauliflower. Roasted chicken thighs with roasted broccoli. Cobb salad. Bacon and eggs. Beef stir fry. Steaks and zucchini on the grill. Tuna salad on a bed of lettuce.3
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baconslave wrote: »mmcguire876 wrote: »I am so stinkin' sick & tired of hearing about the whole 'Keto'/low-carb diet phase! It's a sham the diet industry has people hooked on, just like the low-fat craze in the '80's and '90's. Nothing healthy about doing keto and low carb. In fact, being in a ketogenic state is actually dangerous. Why do you think diabetics die when they get ketogenic? Non diabetics aren't immune to the dangers of keto genics either. Carbs are absolutely necessary and healthy. People run into trouble when they OVEReat carbs or eat the wrong type/too many carbs. Overeating any of the macronutrients will lead the body to storing it as fat.
Ketosis is not a dangerous state. Many people slip into ketosis overnight while they are sleeping. While they are pregnant. While sick and can't eat for a day or 2. While a breastfeeding infant. Ketosis is a natural body process.
Diabetic ketoacidosis is what you are thinking of. Nutritional ketosis is ketone concentrations below about 5 or 6mmol/L. Those that high are people doing extended fasts, like for weeks. Even people who try to get higher just can't, because their pancreas is functioning. Ketoacidosis is above 15mmol/L. T1 diabetics have to worry about it since they cannot produce insulin. And T2 diabetics who have uncontrolled very high blood sugars and cannot produce enough insulin or cannot control it with injected insulin. Ketoacidosis occurs because of sky-high blood sugar AND not enough insulin. If you have a properly functioning pancreas, you can't go into diabetic ketoacidosis.
Of course there's ketoacidosis which occurs in severe alcoholics, but that's entirely different than nutritional ketosis as well.
Right, keto is not magic. It's a tool to achieve a calorie deficit.
But there's nothing unhealthy about about doing keto or low-carb.
This is correct.
Diabetic ketoacidosis is not the same as nutritional ketosis. Type 2 diabetics go into this state because they are not capable of using the glucose in their blood for energy, and also can not remove it from the blood stream. Nutritional ketosis is about lowering your intake of foods that increase your blood glucose, which in turn lowers your insulin. You do not have high levels of glucose like a diabetic would. You will not die from this diet.2 -
I personally tried keto after people tried to scare me off it, and it worked for me very well. But i enjoy eating this way and am also allergic to grains and a lot of fruits and veggies so I couldn't eat a lot of carbs if i wanted to. Bottom line is...if you try it and hate it don't think it's the only way, but don't not try it because people scared you away. This has been the best thing I have tried so far and I am glad I tried it. I only wish I hadn't listened to people who scared me away from it for years.3
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Last week my doctor told me to go on a low carb diet. I know (and he knows) that I need to lose weight, but the reason for the low carb diet is that at my annual physical, my triglycerides were through the roof. It's not exactly a surprise for me since I have been mainlining jelly beans and salt water taffy lately with little regard to how much sugar is going into me.
His recommendation was to aim for 100 or fewer carbs a day. After a solid week of reading I decided that full on keto isn't really sustainable for me, but I can fall somewhere in the middle and be happy on about 70-75 carbs a day. I am also logging and see that with those low carb choices, I am within my calorie goal.
I always resent the posts on here where people toss in a terse "get a new doctor" like they know it all. They don't. Sure, I need to lose weight but getting the blood sugar under control is the immediate goal and why my doctor made that recommendation.4 -
Many people here have done just that.jackmcnasty wrote: »Keto isn't magical but it works. I am a nutrition coach and I use ketogenic diets to help people lose weight. I have yet to see someone who isn't successful on this way of eating if they actually follow it. I personally have lost over 125lbs and maintained it on low carb/keto for 12 years.
calorie restriction is utter garbage. I have challenged other "nutrition experts" to present me with a client that has lost over 100 lbs on a calorie restriction diet and maintained it for even 5 years. I've yet to see one.
I have done several experiments having people over feed by double their caloric intake for 21 days and either gain less than 1lb body fat or actually still lose weight. The key to the ketogenic diet is not calories but hormones. Specifically insulin and glucagon. Look into type 1 diabetics. If not on insulin they can eat unlimited amounts of calories and still waste away to nothing and die. How do we think this happens if calories matter? It is because when insulin is not present to control glucagon, energy is pushed from cells without regard of requirement. Glucose gets released to blood and blood sugar rises, fat gets released from fat cells and turns to ketones, amino acids get converted to glucose and nitrogen and much of the energy is urinated out. The type 1 wastes away no matter how much they eat or how much they move. Not because they aren't eating but because hormones are not regulated.
In a proper ketogenic diet insulin is kept low which makes glucagon high. They are counter regulatory hormones. One high, the other low. Insulin stores, glucagon releases. The only difference between regular people and type 1s is that we have beta cells in our pancreas and can release insulin to regulate the energy release from the glucagon when ketones or blood sugar get too high.
People really do not understand human physiology. we are not machines. We do not burn food. Calories are a measure of energy released by burning food. We metabolize not burn. Each different macronutrient has a different hormonal/chemical response. It is not a simple input/output scenario as all the CICOpaths would have you believe and we didn't all of a sudden become lazy gluttonous people. It is the food landscape that has changed not us.
I've maintained a 100lb loss for 3 years by counting calories. Low carb was utter garbage for me.
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