"Who's NOT Overweight?"
Replies
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In my area, being overweight is very common and has been normalized. I was in the obese category and did not feel like I stood out as an exception among my peer group. It was only after I lost the weight that I realized just how many people are overweight.2
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It's not the first time I hear that...I'd like to know more about it, like why do they have less mortality rates and I'm wondering what BF% that is.
Link to the study: http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2520627
NYT summary: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/health/study-suggests-lower-death-risk-for-the-overweight.html
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So, at a meeting this week, we were all chatting about random stuff and one person brought up her partner was coming onto her insurance because her partner's company's insurance was going to start charging more for smokers (private company). Another one said the same thing, but it was due to health stats like BMI, BP, etc. and they were given notice this would take effect January 1, 2018. Change now or pay more later, I guess.
The smoking thing didn't phase anyone, but the weight thing did. One of my office mates said, "That's not a fair thing to charge for, I mean, who's NOT overweight?" Myself and one other person raised our hands. Two out of 14 people. I don't perceive anyone being obese, but I really have no idea and don't really think about it. I was obese, lost 100+ pounds and have been in maintenance almost three years.
It was just an interesting observation for me--even our folks with "active" jobs are probably overweight. Only two our of 14 were a healthy weight.
I know not everyone works in a office, but with their office mates or stay-at-home-parent folks, is my office an anomaly? Or is it normal?
I am a stay at home parent have been overweight almost the entire time I have been a SAHP. My dd is not overweight. Our pets are not overweight. My dh is a teacher and is not overweight. Some of his colleagues are and some are not overweight. I don't know which is the majority. Our friends and family are a mixture of weights.
On a recent visit to a health care center I noticed that all of the people I saw working there appeared to be overweight. There were some overweight patients in the waiting room but maybe half who did not look overweight.
I would believe that people living in the same area and working the same job may have similar activity levels and eating/drinking habits so the majority of co-workers may be skewed toward one end of the weight range.
I think if you compare people with different jobs and lifestyles even in the same area the results get more mixed.
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OliveGirl128 wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »My life insurance company charges extra if your BMI is 'obese' or higher. No penalty for 'overweight'. I think it's fair, to be honest, for life insurance - which is basically gambling. You pays your money, you takes your chance.
Health insurance is rather different. Putting hurdles between people and healthcare because they're unhealthy is absurd.
But from an insurance perspective, those who are obese are more likely incur more health care costs, just like smokers.
I'm 6 ft and 200 lbs. my body fat is roughly 10%. My vitals are near perfect. I'm "overweight" and approaching "obese" based on that. Total horseshit.
Do you really think your stats are the norm though?
Actually, I know a lot of guys, including myself who are overweight by BMI but are perfectly lean and healthy...I don't think it's that unusual for active males to be overweight per BMI but still lean and healthy. Someone bordering on obese is hitting the weight room pretty hard, which isn't particularly unusual either but probably more of a rarity than just being overweight.
I'm about 8 Lbs overweight as per BMI but at a perfectly healthy BF%...no love handles, no gut, etc...right around 15%. I'm by no means a body builder as I only lift 2x per week and spend most of my exercise time on my bike...but being active, I have enough muscle mass to class me as overweight by BMI.
I don't think BMI is total BS or anything, but I think using it as the sole measure to run up someone's rates is pretty asinine.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »My life insurance company charges extra if your BMI is 'obese' or higher. No penalty for 'overweight'. I think it's fair, to be honest, for life insurance - which is basically gambling. You pays your money, you takes your chance.
Health insurance is rather different. Putting hurdles between people and healthcare because they're unhealthy is absurd.
But from an insurance perspective, those who are obese are more likely incur more health care costs, just like smokers.
I'm 6 ft and 200 lbs. my body fat is roughly 10%. My vitals are near perfect. I'm "overweight" and approaching "obese" based on that. Total horseshit.
Do you really think your stats are the norm though?
Actually, I know a lot of guys, including myself who are overweight by BMI but are perfectly lean and healthy...I don't think it's that unusual for active males to be overweight per BMI but still lean and healthy. Someone bordering on obese is hitting the weight room pretty hard, which isn't particularly unusual either but probably more of a rarity than just being overweight.
I'm about 8 Lbs overweight as per BMI but at a perfectly healthy BF%...no love handles, no gut, etc...right around 15%. I'm by no means a body builder as I only lift 2x per week and spend most of my exercise time on my bike...but being active, I have enough muscle mass to class me as overweight by BMI.
I don't think BMI is total BS or anything, but I think using it as the sole measure to run up someone's rates is pretty asinine.
I agree with the bold but have a question about your first sentence--Are active males the norm? In my corner of the world, they are not. I don't think that many guys around me are in the overweight category BMI-wise due to their activity (actually muscle) level.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »My life insurance company charges extra if your BMI is 'obese' or higher. No penalty for 'overweight'. I think it's fair, to be honest, for life insurance - which is basically gambling. You pays your money, you takes your chance.
Health insurance is rather different. Putting hurdles between people and healthcare because they're unhealthy is absurd.
But from an insurance perspective, those who are obese are more likely incur more health care costs, just like smokers.
I'm 6 ft and 200 lbs. my body fat is roughly 10%. My vitals are near perfect. I'm "overweight" and approaching "obese" based on that. Total horseshit.
Do you really think your stats are the norm though?
Actually, I know a lot of guys, including myself who are overweight by BMI but are perfectly lean and healthy...I don't think it's that unusual for active males to be overweight per BMI but still lean and healthy. Someone bordering on obese is hitting the weight room pretty hard, which isn't particularly unusual either but probably more of a rarity than just being overweight.
I'm about 8 Lbs overweight as per BMI but at a perfectly healthy BF%...no love handles, no gut, etc...right around 15%. I'm by no means a body builder as I only lift 2x per week and spend most of my exercise time on my bike...but being active, I have enough muscle mass to class me as overweight by BMI.
I don't think BMI is total BS or anything, but I think using it as the sole measure to run up someone's rates is pretty asinine.
I agree with the bold but have a question about your first sentence--Are active males the norm? In my corner of the world, they are not. I don't think that many guys around me are in the overweight category BMI-wise due to their activity (actually muscle) level.
IDK...Probably not...I know a lot of them, but that's probably because I spend a lot of time outside on my bike or in the gym or rock climbing and the vast majority of my friends and family are recreational athletes at minimum so I tend to be surrounded by pretty fit people in my day to day life.
I'd just think an insurance company should have multiple measures before jacking up rates.0 -
This is because BMI is an antiquated crock! It's was NOT designed to be a measure of health, but has been used for a long time so everyone just accepts it. I am technically overweight, but literally every person I have ever said that to is shocked. Every body is different, has different distributions of fat. You can absolutely be overweight and have great cardiovascular health. BMI is irrelivant in my opinion.
Okay, off soapbox now!9 -
My personal trainer is my height and weighs 165lbs. This girl is solid muscle, small waist , excellent health. Me on the other hand.. i am 5'4 166lbs and Let just say I dont looke like her. Body fat % plays a big role. That would sucks for someone who is a health professional and in impeccable health to be penalized for BMI? Hope they take in other factors like waist size! My mother in law jsut had weight loss surgery and is the same height as me and only 2lbs larger.. but I wear a size 8 and she wears a 14.. Too subjective of a measurement.4
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TeacupsAndToning wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »I saw this pic the other day, a reenactment of the iconic NY skyline construction pic from the 1930s, and noted that the modern construction worker is quite a bit heavier than the vintage ones
I'm not trying to discount the legitimate fact that people are statistically fatter than they used to be, but it should be said that the first photo was taken during the height of the depression...
That and the agenda of the photographer for the second picture.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Were the other 12 people overweight? I realize this may be hard to tell by looking if they are just a little overweight but most of the people that I know who are at a healthy weight think (or at least say) they are overweight.
Yeah ... I think they are in the over-weight to obese category. Doubtful regarding anyone being morbidly obese. I just never thought about it in those terms. Too worried about what I'm doing.0 -
Since close to 70% of the US adult population is overweight by BMI standards, I'd say that it's actually quite normal to see more overweight people than normal weight people. My insurance doesn't ding people for being overweight or smoking. They do the opposite. They incentivize people who are normal weight and/or don't smoke through a wellness program.
I would love this!1 -
I'm in my 40's and I have never been overweight in my life. The highest I've been is near the top of the healthy weight range. I came to MFP several years ago to reverse the upward trend I was on and get back to my ideal. Been maintaining at goal for over 5 years now. Among my friends, I am pretty average, since most of us have always been more fit than average. But I do notice that the majority of people I see when I'm out and about seem to be on the heavy side these days.
It's not particularly complicated to maintain a healthy weight in my experience. It just takes the commitment and some basic effort. The most important thing is determining your priorities. If fitness is a true priority, you'll make it happen. If not, you won't. Of course, some people have special medical problems that complicate weight management, but most people could do more to stay in shape. They just chose not to.
I can see why insurance might want to charge more for obesity (especially morbid obesity), considering the numerous conditions and health risks associated with it, but simply being overweight doesn't necessarily increase risks...0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »So, at a meeting this week, we were all chatting about random stuff and one person brought up her partner was coming onto her insurance because her partner's company's insurance was going to start charging more for smokers (private company). Another one said the same thing, but it was due to health stats like BMI, BP, etc. and they were given notice this would take effect January 1, 2018. Change now or pay more later, I guess.
The smoking thing didn't phase anyone, but the weight thing did. One of my office mates said, "That's not a fair thing to charge for, I mean, who's NOT overweight?" Myself and one other person raised our hands. Two out of 14 people. I don't perceive anyone being obese, but I really have no idea and don't really think about it. I was obese, lost 100+ pounds and have been in maintenance almost three years.
It was just an interesting observation for me--even our folks with "active" jobs are probably overweight. Only two our of 14 were a healthy weight.
I know not everyone works in a office, but with their office mates or stay-at-home-parent folks, is my office an anomaly? Or is it normal?
If they were going to raise my rates because of BMI, I'd be pissed. I'm about 8 Lbs overweight as per BMI, but I'm not fat...I'm not 6 pack lean or anything, but I don't have love handles or a belly or anything like that.
I'm also hypertensive despite healthy BF% and the fact that I exercise in some manner or another 6-7 days per week...it's a hereditary thing...it would suck to get overcharged for crappy genetics.
That's why the partners are coming over to our insurance, no "penalties" like that smoking, etc.0 -
OliveGirl128 wrote: »I know it's slightly off topic from your op, but our insurance already has this policy in place-but the bmi to be penalized is high, into the obese range. So those who are just in the overweight category are not penalized on weight alone. Other health markers are also assessed though, like bp/cholesterol etc and you can be penalized based on those.
Really interesting--I have no frame of reference, our insurance plans don't do that.0 -
Geography plays a role, too. I lived in Southern California for several years & always felt HUGE compared to other women around me. I moved back to Texas & not only felt like I fit right in, but looked a little smaller than many other women (my BMI when I moved here teetered between obese & overweight).
I'm still in Texas, but after losing 55# and now sitting squarely in the middle of my normal BMI range, I'm typically one of the smallest (weight-wise) women everywhere I go. I have a feeling I'd finally look about average if I went back to SoCal.
Funny you should mention SoCal--that's where I live now.0 -
goldthistime wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »So a man my height that weighs 175 lbs but eats total garbage, drinks nearly daily, has vitals worse than mine, would be considered in a healthy range and get a better premium. I just did my BMI and I'm at 27.5. That's 2.5 points away from obese.
Is your waist measurement less than 1/2 of your height? That is an alternative measurement that would take into consideration someone who has some level of muscle mass/less abdominal fat (which is an increased risk factor). IMO this should also be taken into consideration when determining any weight based insurance discount/penalty
https://qz.com/1002707/bmi-calculators-arent-accurate-but-our-body-fat-calculator-is/
At 6'2" and 205 my BMI is 26.3. However my waist-height ratio is 35 in waist / 74 in height = .473 so below .50.
The doctors that give the work physicals are real sticklers on BMI, but I've been lifting weights for years and they never had a problem with my weight.
I've been hearing this waist to height ratio, termed "overfat" if the ratio is higher than 0.50, all over the news lately. Here's one of many examples:
http://fox17online.com/2017/07/31/is-overfat-the-new-obesity/
"A new study published in the journal Frontiers in Public Health suggests the number of people who meet the criteria for overfat in the top 30 industrialized countries are more than all of the obese and overweight people in the world. In fact, they estimate that 90% of the men and 50% of the children in the US, New Zealand, Greece and Iceland are overfat. In the top overfat countries, researchers found 80% of the women were overfat, too."
If insurance were start using waist to height exclusively instead of BMI, very few would pass the test.
I wouldn't mind it at all.. I'm 5'10" with a 38" waist and currently 50lbs overweight according to BMI. At a 34.5" waist i would be below the overfat ratio. Being shapped like a pear makes me less at risk of anything weight related and my waist is usually around 34 inches when im still somewhat overweight based on BMI, yet it's when i look and feel great and healthiest. I agree that BMI is wonky when you get into the tall and short population and prefer the overfat ratio.
For me, the weird thing about the article was where they were measuring the waist--at the belly button. Maybe I'm shaped differently, but my belly button is no where near my waist, but right above my hips. By measuring at my waist, I'm great, measuring at my belly button, not so much. And I'm at the low end of BMI with 24% body fat (bodpod).5 -
OliveGirl128 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »My life insurance company charges extra if your BMI is 'obese' or higher. No penalty for 'overweight'. I think it's fair, to be honest, for life insurance - which is basically gambling. You pays your money, you takes your chance.
Health insurance is rather different. Putting hurdles between people and healthcare because they're unhealthy is absurd.
But from an insurance perspective, those who are obese are more likely incur more health care costs, just like smokers.
I'm 6 ft and 200 lbs. my body fat is roughly 10%. My vitals are near perfect. I'm "overweight" and approaching "obese" based on that. Total horseshit.
But medical professionals make exceptions. They take multiple variables into account. My husband is 6 ft and 202 pounds. His doctor says his body fat and lean mass are great, so he is NOT considered "overweight" and is NOT at risk for weight related health problems. He has noted that my husband is "fit and athletic" in his charts.
I know a guy with the same height and weight stats as my husband. He sits all day and doesn't exercise. He has a little beer gut and is out of shape. He would be considered overweight and at risk.
This is why BMI should be only one factor in assessing health risk. (But BMI for the majority of people is still a fairly good indicator.)6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »CattOfTheGarage wrote: »My life insurance company charges extra if your BMI is 'obese' or higher. No penalty for 'overweight'. I think it's fair, to be honest, for life insurance - which is basically gambling. You pays your money, you takes your chance.
Health insurance is rather different. Putting hurdles between people and healthcare because they're unhealthy is absurd.
But from an insurance perspective, those who are obese are more likely incur more health care costs, just like smokers.
I'm 6 ft and 200 lbs. my body fat is roughly 10%. My vitals are near perfect. I'm "overweight" and approaching "obese" based on that. Total horseshit.
Do you really think your stats are the norm though?
Actually, I know a lot of guys, including myself who are overweight by BMI but are perfectly lean and healthy...I don't think it's that unusual for active males to be overweight per BMI but still lean and healthy. Someone bordering on obese is hitting the weight room pretty hard, which isn't particularly unusual either but probably more of a rarity than just being overweight.
I'm about 8 Lbs overweight as per BMI but at a perfectly healthy BF%...no love handles, no gut, etc...right around 15%. I'm by no means a body builder as I only lift 2x per week and spend most of my exercise time on my bike...but being active, I have enough muscle mass to class me as overweight by BMI.
I don't think BMI is total BS or anything, but I think using it as the sole measure to run up someone's rates is pretty asinine.
I agree with the bold but have a question about your first sentence--Are active males the norm? In my corner of the world, they are not. I don't think that many guys around me are in the overweight category BMI-wise due to their activity (actually muscle) level.
IDK...Probably not...I know a lot of them, but that's probably because I spend a lot of time outside on my bike or in the gym or rock climbing and the vast majority of my friends and family are recreational athletes at minimum so I tend to be surrounded by pretty fit people in my day to day life.
I'd just think an insurance company should have multiple measures before jacking up rates.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat, hang around with people that are active. I find if I look around at the beach or an amusement park, the number of males that look like they're active is pretty minimal.
Only about 20% of the US population over 18 meets the CDC goals for physical activity (150 minutes of moderate aerobic activity and 2 full body strength training sessions a week), enough to meet the minimums determined for health but sure not enough to get one jacked or make them a marathon runner.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/exercise.htm
The fact only 20% of the population gets this minimal amount of exercise makes the idea that BMI is a reasonable representation for 80-90% of the population (they're not overweight/obese because they're "muscular").
I agree there should be multiple measures before jacking up rates.5 -
I work in one of the largest healthcare companies and I rarely see overweight people in my group. In fact, I say probably 10% is overweight? I also don't know ANY smokers among my coworkers. Most people have
SOME workout habit (golf doesn't count!
) But it may not be representative because we are in the healthcare industry after all. 0 -
Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?12
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Here's an idea: how about those with "healthy" BMIs pay lower premiums, rather than making people with "unhealthy" BMIs pay more? I'd love to have a lower premuium. And it would motivate people that lose weight to actually keep it off.6
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Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
yes this exactly3 -
Strawblackcat wrote: »Here's an idea: how about those with "healthy" BMIs pay lower premiums, rather than making people with "unhealthy" BMIs pay more? I'd love to have a lower premuium. And it would motivate people that lose weight to actually keep it off.
Love this idea2 -
Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
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I work in academia. Most professors I know work out a lot and everyone in my department is a healthy weight except for the secretaries.
My dad is considered obese by BMI even though he plays full court basketball at 60 and the doctors say he has the best heart condition they have ever seen for someone his age.
I worked on the financial side of healthcare, and the whole system is messed up. About 20% of the people incur 80% of the healthcare costs in the country, some of this due to an unhealthy lifestyle, but a lot also due to genetics or freak accidents. I remember one individual who did everything right and a freak tree branch falling on her head left her with too many medical bills to pay for. My horseback riding teacher is racking up medical bills, which would be expected for someone who does one of most dangerous sports for a living, except that she is racking them up because she has (unrelated) cancer. Healthcare is not a right, however, from an economics perspective I think something more needs to be done in order to mitigate the risk so that one broken leg doesn't equal financial disaster for an otherwise fiscally responsible individual... but that is a whole different matter.5 -
Strawblackcat wrote: »Here's an idea: how about those with "healthy" BMIs pay lower premiums, rather than making people with "unhealthy" BMIs pay more? I'd love to have a lower premuium. And it would motivate people that lose weight to actually keep it off.
This doesn't change the substance of what you are trying to do, it just frames it as a reward rather than a punishment. Nothing wrong with that, just pointing it out.8 -
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CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.9 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.
Thin people are shamed, fat people are also shamed. It's a problem at both ends of the scale and trying to increase the level of shame (as you sound like you want to do) will help nobody.
For me and many others, body acceptance and self love have been a crucial part of being able to lose weight in a healthy way. Shame is a completely negative thing, which gets in the way of weight loss, it doesn't help it.
And plus sized models are usually nothing of the sort - they are usually a normal weight, and are a welcome pushback against the cult of only ever showing women at an unhealthily low weight.
What is needed to tackle obesity is straight talking, about the risks, about the causes, and about the best strategies to lose weight; better nutrition training for primary care doctors and easier access to dietitians; better access to fresh food and actions to tackle food deserts; decisive action against bogus health claims, fake nutrition experts and 'diet foods' that make things worse; and more education for kids on basic nutrition and how to cook simple, cheap, balanced meals.
The Daily Mail armchair warrior approach of ranting about how "we're all too accepting of fat people" is not on my list, strangely. Of all the things we can say about our world, "too much love and understanding" is not one of them. A bit more can only ever help.24 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Obesity rate keeps rising, and yet instead of trying to solve the problem, we are just accepting it. Clothing sizes just keep getting bigger, food portions at restaurants keep getting larger.. when are we going to say, "no, it is not healthy to be overweight, let's do something about it". ?
Those two examples have nothing whatever to do with each other, though.
Portion sizes increasing is a big problem, a contributing factor to obesity, and a hindrance to those of us trying to lose/control our weight. Something should totally be done about that.
Clothing sizes getting bigger is just a necessity, though. It doesn't contribute to the problem at all. Unless you're suggesting that forcing fat people to go naked would somehow stop them being fat?
No, but they have more larger sizes, with plus size models glamorizing plus sizes, and thinner people are being shamed. I can hardly find xs these days or now they do vanity sizing ( labeling a medium a small) All these things attribute to society's acceptance of overweight or obesity rates.
I actually think it does contribute to the problem. Size 00/0 used to be meant for very thin people, now most healthy weight people fit into 0. The vanity sizing gives overweight people the impression they really aren't "that big" and reinforces the idea they are normal and that being overweight is normal because "hey I'm only a size ___". And I agree with you I can hardly find clothes that fit anymore. My mom gave me some of her old clothes from the 80s/90s and the size 4-6 fits snug. However, I now have to find 000/00 and xs in today's ridiculous vanity sizing. It disgusts me that as a country we are normalizing obesity more and more every year. I agree vanity sizing and all these 'plus size' campaigns show people "hey this is what normal is and it's completely fine to be this way".18
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