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Food Stamps Restriction
Replies
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Instead of trying to teach people better habits (if they even need it) through category exclusion, why not offer classes? Instead of assuming that people will only buy junk, why not be generous of thought and compassionate enough to assume that we don't know the whole story. Maybe that lady buying a package of cookies with foodstamps has to provide something for their child's school classroom party and the school forbids home-made items because of allergy concerns? And, she doesn't want anyone to realize how hard up her family is right now, so she's doing the best she can to re-prioritize and maybe she's eating a few days of ramen for her own lunch in order to afford the cookies with her limited and supplemented food budget. Is it really that big of a deal if someone buys chips to include in their child's or partner's bagged lunch?
Back when my kids were in the traditional school system we opted to not participate in bringing in food for classroom parties, nor did we bring in b-day treats for the classroom. If someone doesn't have the extra funds to provide a treat then they just don't bring in a treat-it's really not a big deal. My kids were never belittled/picked on for not bringing in anything, nor did the teacher pull me aside to talk about it. And actually the whole 'treats in the classroom' is a pretty controversial topic and some schools are getting away from it.
Wow, I really do feel like I'm on a parenting board right now... I need to find a apple cider vinegar thread to balance things out
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Effectively telling people that they have to sacrifice their dignity in order to get help seems more problematic IMO.
Begging is sacrificing their dignity.
It's called integrity.
It's also a useful motivator.12 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
Since when is a shopping cart filled with nutrient dense foods less of a source of pride than a cart full of chips, pop , cookies, etc?
I never said that it was. I said that vilifying people who buy chips, cookies and/or soda along with their otherwise nutritionally dense food just because they are receiving food benefits is wrong. When did this turn into another version of people only eat 100% "healthy" or 100% "junk"? I thought we corrected that assumption ages ago on these boards?12 -
I never said that it was. I said that vilifying people who buy chips, cookies and/or soda along with their otherwise nutritionally dense food just because they are receiving food benefits is wrong. When did this turn into another version of people only eat 100% "healthy" or 100% "junk"? I thought we corrected that assumption ages ago on these boards?
Probably about the time that eliminating soda from food stamps turned into vilifying people for receiving benefits.7 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Your opinion seems very strange to me. But I've never been one for "puttin' on airs' as my gram called it. I don't tie pride to my ability to buy (or have someone else buy for me) cookies and soda.
I can understand how it might seem strange, as it seems that we have different perspectives. I see nothing wrong with allowing people who are down on hard times to maintain whatever pride and/or dignity they are able to hold on to. What purpose does it serve to call attention to someone's plight in life just because they need a little help?
My own personal opinion is that quietly helping someone who needs it (if possible) is always better than publically helping someone. I've seen individuals, churches, and other groups do this effectively for many years. Around the holidays, it's common in the Army for some families to get extra assistance in the form of a commissary or PX gift card. It's always done very discretely, usually through the Chaplain's office. It would serve no purpose to highlight that one family over another may need some help from time to time.
I see no reason why we can't default to that for society at large. I imagine that it's bad enough to have to go into a government agency and admit that you need help; why make it harder when it comes to check out at the grocery store? Allowing someone to not feel more ashamed (which is different that "puttin' on airs") doesn't change your day one bit.12 -
What is the purpose of food stamps? Is this intended to be a short term aid with the end goal of having the individual no longer needing assistance? Is this intended to be a long term supplement for those who lack the ability to provide basic needs?
This seems to be a devolving debate on preconceived thoughts and scenarios concocted to pass judgment on those holding an opposing view on the matter.
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I can understand how it might seem strange, as it seems that we have different perspectives. I see nothing wrong with allowing people who are down on hard times to maintain whatever pride and/or dignity they are able to hold on to. What purpose does it serve to call attention to someone's plight in life just because they need a little help?
My own personal opinion is that quietly helping someone who needs it (if possible) is always better than publically helping someone. I've seen individuals, churches, and other groups do this effectively for many years. Around the holidays, it's common in the Army for some families to get extra assistance in the form of a commissary or PX gift card. It's always done very discretely, usually through the Chaplain's office. It would serve no purpose to highlight that one family over another may need some help from time to time.
I see no reason why we can't default to that for society at large. I imagine that it's bad enough to have to go into a government agency and admit that you need help; why make it harder when it comes to check out at the grocery store? Allowing someone to not feel more ashamed (which is different that "puttin' on airs") doesn't change your day one bit.
And you seriously think removing soda from the list of items one can purchase with food stamps somehow equates to all that? I've taken away your free soda now you will be publicly shamed and stripped of all dignity?? You should be so ashamed you worthless sodaless excuse for a human.
Come on! Get serious.8 -
I can understand how it might seem strange, as it seems that we have different perspectives. I see nothing wrong with allowing people who are down on hard times to maintain whatever pride and/or dignity they are able to hold on to. What purpose does it serve to call attention to someone's plight in life just because they need a little help?
My own personal opinion is that quietly helping someone who needs it (if possible) is always better than publically helping someone. I've seen individuals, churches, and other groups do this effectively for many years. Around the holidays, it's common in the Army for some families to get extra assistance in the form of a commissary or PX gift card. It's always done very discretely, usually through the Chaplain's office. It would serve no purpose to highlight that one family over another may need some help from time to time.
I see no reason why we can't default to that for society at large. I imagine that it's bad enough to have to go into a government agency and admit that you need help; why make it harder when it comes to check out at the grocery store? Allowing someone to not feel more ashamed (which is different that "puttin' on airs") doesn't change your day one bit.
Back when we used WIC I never felt bad or embarrassed about having to use it at the check out lane, (and it was paper vouchers back then instead of the debit type cards they use now). It really wasn't a big deal and I just added them to my coupon pile.
eta: I also never felt bad about going into the WIC office for our appointments. The staff was always professional and polite and the waiting room was full of moms and kids. It was very similar to going to a doctor or dentist appointment.5 -
What is the purpose of food stamps? Is this intended to be a short term aid with the end goal of having the individual no longer needing assistance? Is this intended to be a long term supplement for those who lack the ability to provide basic needs?
This seems to be a devolving debate on preconceived thoughts and scenarios concocted to pass judgment on those holding an opposing view on the matter.
My opinion, it's functioning as both. Short term assistance is fine. The change needs to come with the long term recipients. Some obviously have physical or mental issues that preclude them from ever earning enough to properly feed themselves without help. IMO, generational recipients is where is the issue is and it's just not food stamps, it's breaking the whole cycle of poverty.
Regardless of the situation, again IMO, these resources should not be allowed to purchase low nutrient or luxury foods.6 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Obviously I'm not.
So we're right back where we started. If you think this would be a meaningful change, I'm asking why you think it's meaningful.4 -
What is the purpose of food stamps? Is this intended to be a short term aid with the end goal of having the individual no longer needing assistance? Is this intended to be a long term supplement for those who lack the ability to provide basic needs?
This seems to be a devolving debate on preconceived thoughts and scenarios concocted to pass judgment on those holding an opposing view on the matter.
In my mind, it's a mix of both. There are some people on food stamps as a temporary measure (my family was in this situation for a while) and there are people who do lack the ability to provide for their basic needs over a longer term (I'm thinking of people who are very ill or elderly, for example).0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
So we're right back where we started. If you think this would be a meaningful change, I'm asking why you think it's meaningful.
Still the same as when we started. The source of the money. It's the difference in buying yourself a soda vs. asking me to buy you a soda because you are hungry. Honestly if you can't understand a difference then I don't see a point in continuing the debate. I see a difference.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Still the same as when we started. The source of the money. It's the difference in buying yourself a soda vs. asking me to buy you a soda because you are hungry. Honestly if you can't understand a difference then I don't see a point in continuing the debate. I see a difference.
I understand your point that there is a subjective difference to you. I was hoping to dig into a discussion of, objectively, what the difference is but I respect that you don't wish to continue.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
I understand your point that there is a subjective difference to you. I was hoping to dig into a discussion of, objectively, what the difference is but I respect that you don't wish to continue.
I don't mind continuing but I'm not sure what else I can say. The difference, the whole difference, to me is the source of the money. Asking others to buy you soda because you can't feed yourself vs. asking others to buy you food because you can't feed yourself and then spending your own money on a treat, which for you is soda.
You don't need soda, you do need food. (not you personally)5 -
GlassAngyl wrote: »
@Chef_Barbell, most ppl on welfare make excuses for their weight citing that junk food cost less than healthy foods. They plug their ears and "lalalala" when you show them the cost between a bag of carrots and one candy bar. I'm not against people eating junk.. I am against pre-packaged junk and people spending all their stamps on that instead of feeding their families healthy options. Baking items cost less in the long run than buying packages of chocolate chip cookies. You get more for your dollar. I feed a family of 8 on a $500 budget. When it was just my family and NOT my bros family too, cost me 200-300$ a month to feed my family healthy home baked meals. My family complained I was starving my kids because my cupboards and freezer was filled only with items that had to be cooked.. nothing quick and simple. My kids are so use to eating this way, they don't "snack" .. they cook.
I'm on cpp disability and social assistance in canada and get $750 a month (we don't have food stamps) and my bmi is low normal and i buy a variety of foods. Not all welfare recipients are fat and lazy. I don't buy a lot of junk brcause it's too expensive but i enjoy mu coke zero.12 -
I was on food stamps for a while. I was okay with the "no soda" thing (my state forbids soda from being bought with them, though, oddly, I could buy as much Halloween candy as I wanted on the state's dime). The killer was diapers, toilet paper and medicine. I don't have kids, but watching others in the EBT line (where poor people go to buy food) paying two or three times for different kinds of items while on the verge of a nervous breakdown was heartbreaking. Also, diapers, toilet paper and medicine are crazy expensive and far more necessary than candy, IMO. I didn't make the rules...if I had they'd make sense.
Edited to clarify: I really think food stamps should cover everything, or cover nothing. Presumably we can trust adults to make their own choices regarding food and basic needs? It's not like food stamp funds are unlimited.9 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
In my mind, it's a mix of both. There are some people on food stamps as a temporary measure (my family was in this situation for a while) and there are people who do lack the ability to provide for their basic needs over a longer term (I'm thinking of people who are very ill or elderly, for example).
I think this is a key distinction to make and it makes little to no sense to treat this on anything other than a case by case basis. I think most will agree that the current system is not managed well and I doubt if those in administration are in alignment with the electorate over the purpose of the food stamp program is.
I wonder do those in administration publish metrics on the success rate of people using this as a temporary measure and getting back on their feet?0 -
I think this is a key distinction to make and it makes little to no sense to treat this on anything other than a case by case basis. I think most will agree that the current system is not managed well and I doubt if those in administration are in alignment with the electorate over the purpose of the food stamp program is.
I wonder do those in administration publish metrics on the success rate of people using this as a temporary measure and getting back on their feet?
My state does publish those metrics.
https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/foodshare/rsdata.htm0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
I don't mind continuing but I'm not sure what else I can say. The difference, the whole difference, to me is the source of the money. Asking others to buy you soda because you can't feed yourself vs. asking others to buy you food because you can't feed yourself and then spending your own money on a treat, which for you is soda.
You don't need soda, you do need food. (not you personally)
I guess I don't see such a pure distinction between "soda" and "food."
While it's true that we don't "need" soda, I don't think there is any single food item that a human needs in order to be healthy. We can see people thriving without eating fruit, without eating meat, without eating grains. We don't require any of those things.
If someone can buy a bag of granulated sugar with benefits, I don't understand why soda would be a problem (you may also support limits on sugar purchases, I'm not trying to attribute a position to you that you may not hold).
Or is this more like supporting a ban on purchasing any liquid with benefits? Is the argument that you do need food, but liquids other than water are unnecessary?7 -
I think this is a key distinction to make and it makes little to no sense to treat this on anything other than a case by case basis. I think most will agree that the current system is not managed well and I doubt if those in administration are in alignment with the electorate over the purpose of the food stamp program is.
I wonder do those in administration publish metrics on the success rate of people using this as a temporary measure and getting back on their feet?
I think this is often where conversations like this get messy and break down. When I'm talking about food stamp users, I'm thinking of a certain group of people (based on my background, experiences, and knowledge), you're thinking of a slightly different group (based on yours), and another person is thinking of . . . well, you get the idea.
And it's really hard -- sometimes -- to have these conversations without either thinking of times we had it tough and didn't get the help we felt other people got or times when we did get help from the government and felt it was a legitimate use of taxpayer funds or even (like someone shared in this thread) times they got help from the government but didn't think it was justified.
I agree -- you can really see the lack of alignment we have over the purposes of public benefits when we have conversations like this.6 -
Your state is my state too! (sing-songy John Jacob Jinglehimerschmidt)
I see the output, but don't see a specific metric for success rate. Not familiar with the specific terminology for this so possibly overlooking it.1 -
LJGettinSexy wrote: »
I don't know what you were doing with the steaks for them to last so long but it's a choice you should have.
I guess it is more 4 meals but over 4 days we make side items to fill it out.
I eat 1/2 good part (all meat no fat) other 1/2 goes for a lunch SO eats the outside fatty parts so two lunches two dinners for me. All the meaty fat pars for SO.
You should see how we stretch a whole chicken SO loves the innards.
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janejellyroll wrote: »
I guess I don't see such a pure distinction between "soda" and "food."
While it's true that we don't "need" soda, I don't think there is any single food item that a human needs in order to be healthy. We can see people thriving without eating fruit, without eating meat, without eating grains. We don't require any of those things.
If someone can buy a bag of granulated sugar with benefits, I don't understand why soda would be a problem (you may also support limits on sugar purchases, I'm not trying to attribute a position to you that you may not hold).
Or is this more like supporting a ban on purchasing any liquid with benefits? Is the argument that you do need food, but liquids other than water are unnecessary?
No, I think milk or milk substitutes should be covered. It's seeing soda as never being the better choice. If you have so little that you must ask others to buy your food, you don't need to consume a glass of sugar water. I doubt many people are eating a bag of sugar. They are using that as as ingredient. Sometimes soda may also be an ingredient but typically not.4 -
Your state is my state too! (sing-songy John Jacob Jinglehimerschmidt)
I see the output, but don't see a specific metric for success rate. Not familiar with the specific terminology for this so possibly overlooking it.
You have to compare year-to-year to determine how many people go on and off the rolls. Comparing those data points to those in the work program can also reveal trends.
As a food stamp beneficiary I also got an annual report with the work program that broke down statistics for how many of us were working, had children, etc. I haven't needed food stamps in years, so I don't get that anymore.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
No, I think milk or milk substitutes should be covered. It's seeing soda as never being the better choice. If you have so little that you must ask others to buy your food, you don't need to consume a glass of sugar water. I doubt many people are eating a bag of sugar. They are using that as as ingredient. Sometimes soda may also be an ingredient but typically not.
Would I be correct in assuming you would also support restricting the purchase of juice, especially juices that are sweetened with additional sugar?
What about candy?4 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
Do you have a problem with the government buying $5,000 toilets or whatever? If so, you should have a problem with a SNAP recipient buying live lobsters or other luxury food items with government money (SNAP funds).
In either case, the idea would be those spending government resources should be good stewards of those resources and get the most value for the $ spent. In the case of the food, buying items with SNAP that provide the most nutritional value for the money.
I can't afford lobster and I work everyday nor am I mad at the person that can. Why do you entitled people feel that they can tell poor people what to do? That's what's wrong with this country right now. Everyone has an opinion about what one SHOULD be doing. (Hiding behind the anonymity of the internet). Not everyone one on assistance is 'bad' or 'not worthy' of lobster. If you have the means to buy something you like to eat, then why not. I don't know where you live or shop but chicken wings is a luxury in my grocery store and for a few more dollars if you can get something else you like then you probably should, YOLO!12 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
I mentioned upstream in the thread that I would propose using the WIC guidelines to determine what items would qualify for SNAP benefits. The items that qualify for WIC are generally nutritious, but not premium products.
This link has listing of eligible foods by state and a brief description of the program
https://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/links-state-agency-wic-approved-food-lists
For our non-US friends and those not familiar with the program, here is a brief description of the program from the above site.
The WIC target population are low-income, nutritionally at risk:
Pregnant women (through pregnancy and up to 6 weeks after birth or after pregnancy ends).
Breastfeeding women (up to infant’s 1st birthday)
Nonbreastfeeding postpartum women (up to 6 months after the birth of an infant or after pregnancy ends)
Infants (up to 1st birthday). WIC serves 53 percent of all infants born in the United States.
Children up to their 5th birthday.
Benefits
The following benefits are provided to WIC participants:
Supplemental nutritious foods
Nutrition education and counseling at WIC clinics
Screening and referrals to other health, welfare and social services
I'm sure there would have to be some modifications to the items approved to meet the nutritional needs of other members of the population, but I feel this would be a good start. Plus qualifying items are already identified in the systems of retailers.
If you look at how WIC works, it seems logistically very difficult to expand that to SNAP unless there were a very limited list of accepted foods (as with WIC), and a reduction in the stores participating. I'm thinking about the burden on the stores.
The second question is how would it be decided what is covered and what is not. If you are thinking of something as limited as WIC (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIC for covered items), then I don't think that would be a good idea, no.2 -
@CSARdiver, here are the readouts I got when I was on food stamps in WI: https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/foodshare/fsataglance.htm1
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janejellyroll wrote: »
So you see a relevant difference between directly using the benefits to buy soda and using the money that has been freed up because SNAP covered pasta or beans or whatever to buy soda?
Just for discussion, I do too. For the same reason that I would not agree that any money that goes to Planned Parenthood goes to fund abortions if they use it to fund an entirely different program (like say contraceptives or gyno exams for poor women).
Not to go off on THAT particular tangent, I'm just talking about how to determine what is being funded/subsidized.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I guess I don't see such a pure distinction between "soda" and "food."
I do. It's the way I was raised. If you were hungry you were allowed "food" but food was certainly not soda, candy, cookies or anything of sort.
We've clearly moved away from that sort of thinking as a society but perhaps that's where part of the disconnect is coming from? Snack food deprivation and you-deserve-a-treat are a fairly recent concepts I think.2
This discussion has been closed.
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