Gaining Muscle

13

Replies

  • donkey9512
    donkey9512 Posts: 60 Member
    edited September 2017
    sardelsa wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    e123b123 wrote: »
    I put on a nice amount of muscle, but when i started cutting, it was getting tuff to even lift the same weight i used to.

    Its extremely tuff to gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time.

    So my answer would be No.
    In general I would agree with you. However,
    everyone is different. I know that I struggle to not get fat. Some are luckier than others. Back in the day of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane, I doubt they did this yoyo stuff of bulking and cutting. They just knew how to train and eat. Of course they also have a genetic advantage. Life ain't fair! Deal with it nay sayers!

    To all the nay-sayers, did you ever consider that maybe the OP is genetically gifted?

    @OP, ignore the negative comments. They're just jealous.

    Be sure to read:. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet

    There are multiple ways to do things of course. Nothing wrong with choosing recomp or bulking. Different people will find success with it depending on several factors (stats, bodyfat%, goals, etc)

    I am currently 130lbs. My ultimate goal is to be 140lbs with the same bodyfat%. .. recomp would not be for me that case (unless you consider really slow bulking over many years recomping) but why the hate on bulk/cut? It works for many people... it has been the best thing I ever did for my physique.

    Bulk and cut implies fat and then cut. I guess I am affraid the fat will stay permanent. Everyone is different and this is just me. Different strokes for different folks. Arnold Schwarzenegger may have juiced but when he first started but not initially at 15 and started showing potential. If you want to be Mr or Ms Universe, then you need to juice of course. That does not negate the fact that he had potential.

    What I hate are nay sayers. I have nothing against bulk and cut.
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,826 Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    e123b123 wrote: »
    I put on a nice amount of muscle, but when i started cutting, it was getting tuff to even lift the same weight i used to.

    Its extremely tuff to gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time.

    So my answer would be No.
    In general I would agree with you. However,
    everyone is different. I know that I struggle to not get fat. Some are luckier than others. Back in the day of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane, I doubt they did this yoyo stuff of bulking and cutting. They just knew how to train and eat. Of course they also have a genetic advantage. Life ain't fair! Deal with it nay sayers!

    To all the nay-sayers, did you ever consider that maybe the OP is genetically gifted?

    @OP, ignore the negative comments. They're just jealous.

    Be sure to read:. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet

    There are multiple ways to do things of course. Nothing wrong with choosing recomp or bulking. Different people will find success with it depending on several factors (stats, bodyfat%, goals, etc)

    I am currently 130lbs. My ultimate goal is to be 140lbs with the same bodyfat%. .. recomp would not be for me that case (unless you consider really slow bulking over many years recomping) but why the hate on bulk/cut? It works for many people... it has been the best thing I ever did for my physique.

    Bulk and cut implies fat and then cut. I guess I am affraid the fat will stay permanent. Everyone is different and this is just me. Different strokes for different folks. Also, Arnold Schwarzenegger may have juiced but when he first started at 15 and started showing potential. If you want to be Mr or Ms Universe, then you need to juice of course. That does not negate the fact that he had potential.

    What I hate are nay sayers. I have nothing against bulk and cut.

    While I gained fat on my bulks, I didn't get fat. There are different ways to bulk.

    Well that article you posted was definitely against it. It's one thing to discuss different options, as well as pros and cons, it's another to say "death to bulk and cut diet" (the title of the article).
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,514 Member
    edited September 2017
    sardelsa wrote: »
    ...Well that article you posted was definitely against it. It's one thing to discuss different options, as well as pros and cons, it's another to say "death to bulk and cut diet" (the title of the article).

    There's a reason that M&F is referred to as "Muscle and Fiction" by some people. :D
  • donkey9512
    donkey9512 Posts: 60 Member
    Everyone is different. The argument s were so polarized that I needed to bring an opposing argument to balance.
    Back to OP, I think it's possible to gain muscle and minimize fat gains.
  • donkey9512
    donkey9512 Posts: 60 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    e123b123 wrote: »
    I put on a nice amount of muscle, but when i started cutting, it was getting tuff to even lift the same weight i used to.

    Its extremely tuff to gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time.

    So my answer would be No.
    In general I would agree with you. However,
    everyone is different. I know that I struggle to not get fat. Some are luckier than others. Back in the day of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane, I doubt they did this yoyo stuff of bulking and cutting. They just knew how to train and eat. Of course they also have a genetic advantage. Life ain't fair! Deal with it nay sayers!

    To all the nay-sayers, did you ever consider that maybe the OP is genetically gifted?

    @OP, ignore the negative comments. They're just jealous.

    Be sure to read:. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet

    There are multiple ways to do things of course. Nothing wrong with choosing recomp or bulking. Different people will find success with it depending on several factors (stats, bodyfat%, goals, etc)

    I am currently 130lbs. My ultimate goal is to be 140lbs with the same bodyfat%. .. recomp would not be for me that case (unless you consider really slow bulking over many years recomping) but why the hate on bulk/cut? It works for many people... it has been the best thing I ever did for my physique.

    I am glad that bulk and cut worked for you. Why is it that when someone suggests that they gained only muscle that they must be a liar? I don't suggest that you are lying.

    My fat is different from most folks. My fat is quick to add, slow to burn. My muscles are slow to add and quick to loose. I did not win the genetic lottery.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,514 Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    e123b123 wrote: »
    I put on a nice amount of muscle, but when i started cutting, it was getting tuff to even lift the same weight i used to.

    Its extremely tuff to gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time.

    So my answer would be No.
    In general I would agree with you. However,
    everyone is different. I know that I struggle to not get fat. Some are luckier than others. Back in the day of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane, I doubt they did this yoyo stuff of bulking and cutting. They just knew how to train and eat. Of course they also have a genetic advantage. Life ain't fair! Deal with it nay sayers!

    To all the nay-sayers, did you ever consider that maybe the OP is genetically gifted?

    @OP, ignore the negative comments. They're just jealous.

    Be sure to read:. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet

    There are multiple ways to do things of course. Nothing wrong with choosing recomp or bulking. Different people will find success with it depending on several factors (stats, bodyfat%, goals, etc)

    I am currently 130lbs. My ultimate goal is to be 140lbs with the same bodyfat%. .. recomp would not be for me that case (unless you consider really slow bulking over many years recomping) but why the hate on bulk/cut? It works for many people... it has been the best thing I ever did for my physique.

    I am glad that bulk and cut worked for you. Why is it that when someone suggests that they gained only muscle that they must be a liar?...

    Because it's basically physiologically impossible to gain muscle without fat.

    Even steroid users gain fat along with muscle, and the drugs give them far better partitioning than any natural trainer could ever hope for, genetic outlier or not.

    People who claim they're gaining exclusively muscle are getting their "measurements" from faulty sources.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,953 Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    e123b123 wrote: »
    I put on a nice amount of muscle, but when i started cutting, it was getting tuff to even lift the same weight i used to.

    Its extremely tuff to gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time.

    So my answer would be No.
    In general I would agree with you. However,
    everyone is different. I know that I struggle to not get fat. Some are luckier than others. Back in the day of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane, I doubt they did this yoyo stuff of bulking and cutting. They just knew how to train and eat. Of course they also have a genetic advantage. Life ain't fair! Deal with it nay sayers!

    To all the nay-sayers, did you ever consider that maybe the OP is genetically gifted?

    @OP, ignore the negative comments. They're just jealous.

    Be sure to read:. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet

    There are multiple ways to do things of course. Nothing wrong with choosing recomp or bulking. Different people will find success with it depending on several factors (stats, bodyfat%, goals, etc)

    I am currently 130lbs. My ultimate goal is to be 140lbs with the same bodyfat%. .. recomp would not be for me that case (unless you consider really slow bulking over many years recomping) but why the hate on bulk/cut? It works for many people... it has been the best thing I ever did for my physique.

    I am glad that bulk and cut worked for you. Why is it that when someone suggests that they gained only muscle that they must be a liar? I don't suggest that you are lying.

    My fat is different from most folks. My fat is quick to add, slow to burn. My muscles are slow to add and quick to loose. I did not win the genetic lottery.

    Because physiology. You can minimize fat gains with a minimal surplus but you can't have none. The body just doesn't work that way.
  • donkey9512
    donkey9512 Posts: 60 Member
    edited September 2017
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    e123b123 wrote: »
    I put on a nice amount of muscle, but when i started cutting, it was getting tuff to even lift the same weight i used to.

    Its extremely tuff to gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time.

    So my answer would be No.
    In general I would agree with you. However,
    everyone is different. I know that I struggle to not get fat. Some are luckier than others. Back in the day of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane, I doubt they did this yoyo stuff of bulking and cutting. They just knew how to train and eat. Of course they also have a genetic advantage. Life ain't fair! Deal with it nay sayers!

    To all the nay-sayers, did you ever consider that maybe the OP is genetically gifted?

    @OP, ignore the negative comments. They're just jealous.

    Be sure to read:. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet

    There are multiple ways to do things of course. Nothing wrong with choosing recomp or bulking. Different people will find success with it depending on several factors (stats, bodyfat%, goals, etc)

    I am currently 130lbs. My ultimate goal is to be 140lbs with the same bodyfat%. .. recomp would not be for me that case (unless you consider really slow bulking over many years recomping) but why the hate on bulk/cut? It works for many people... it has been the best thing I ever did for my physique.

    I am glad that bulk and cut worked for you. Why is it that when someone suggests that they gained only muscle that they must be a liar?...

    Because it's basically physiologically impossible to gain muscle without fat.

    Even steroid users gain fat along with muscle, and the drugs give them far better partitioning than any natural trainer could ever hope for, genetic outlier or not.

    People who claim they're gaining exclusively muscle are getting their "measurements" from faulty sources.

    I agree with you but it may be possible for some to gain 75% muscle and 25% fat. Humans would have died off 10000 years ago if there was not a bias to store fat. Biological we would haved died off if we could not store fat for the lean months. Fat has something lile 9 calories per gram versus 4 for protien. So calorie wise maybe we store 75 % in fat and 25% in muscle. Pound per point it could be 50/50. My point is that there are many variables and the science is all over the place.

    I agree, Muscle and Fitness magazine is far from authoritative source. Nevertheless, there is a need for more research and less bro-science.

    Whereas muscle is more expendible therefore the evolution and science supports this notion. However, there are always exceptions. The gene pool is mutating. Sounds like an X-Men story but there is nothing prevent variability in the gains.

    I think it is possible to have mini bulk/ cut cycles coupled with the fact that some have a better capacity for muscle gain. So when taking measurements at two points in time that are within the mini cycles of bulk and cut, it would be the case that you measure only a gain in muscle.

    Debate is great and I enjoy this discussion.

    However, some posters above were expressing categorical views which could be construed as demotivating to the OP. THE OP has a trainer that has given her feed back and her pictures don't lie. Therefore who are we to doubt?
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,514 Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    e123b123 wrote: »
    I put on a nice amount of muscle, but when i started cutting, it was getting tuff to even lift the same weight i used to.

    Its extremely tuff to gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time.

    So my answer would be No.
    In general I would agree with you. However,
    everyone is different. I know that I struggle to not get fat. Some are luckier than others. Back in the day of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane, I doubt they did this yoyo stuff of bulking and cutting. They just knew how to train and eat. Of course they also have a genetic advantage. Life ain't fair! Deal with it nay sayers!

    To all the nay-sayers, did you ever consider that maybe the OP is genetically gifted?

    @OP, ignore the negative comments. They're just jealous.

    Be sure to read:. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet

    There are multiple ways to do things of course. Nothing wrong with choosing recomp or bulking. Different people will find success with it depending on several factors (stats, bodyfat%, goals, etc)

    I am currently 130lbs. My ultimate goal is to be 140lbs with the same bodyfat%. .. recomp would not be for me that case (unless you consider really slow bulking over many years recomping) but why the hate on bulk/cut? It works for many people... it has been the best thing I ever did for my physique.

    I am glad that bulk and cut worked for you. Why is it that when someone suggests that they gained only muscle that they must be a liar?...

    Because it's basically physiologically impossible to gain muscle without fat.

    Even steroid users gain fat along with muscle, and the drugs give them far better partitioning than any natural trainer could ever hope for, genetic outlier or not.

    People who claim they're gaining exclusively muscle are getting their "measurements" from faulty sources.

    I agree with you but it may be possible for some to gain 75% muscle and 25% fat. Humans would have died off 10000 years ago if there was not a bias to store fat. Biological we would haved died off if we could not store fat for the lean months. Fat has something lile 9 calories per gram versus 4 for protien. So calorie wise maybe we store 75 % in fat and 25% in muscle. Pound per point it could be 50/50. My point is that there are many variables and the science is all over the place.

    I agree, Muscle and Fitness magazine is far from authoritative source. Nevertheless, there is a need for more research and less bro-science.

    Whereas muscle is more expendible therefore the evolution and science supports this notion. However, there are always exceptions. The gene pool is mutating. Sounds like an X-Men story but there is nothing prevent variability in the gains.

    I think it is possible to have mini bulk/ cut cycles coupled with the fact that some have a better capacity for muscle gain. So when taking measurements at two points in time that are within the mini cycles of bulk and cut, it would be the case that you measure only a gain in muscle.

    Debate is great and I enjoy this discussion.

    However, some posters above were expressing categorical views which could be construed as demotivating to the OP. THE OP has a trainer that has given her feed back and her pictures don't lie. Therefore who are we to doubt?

    Who are we to doubt? The trainer who's telling her she gained 6 pounds of muscle and zero fat, because that's physiologically impossible.

    Nobody is "demotivating" the OP. Read back through the thread, almost every single person has complimented her on her progress (and rightfully so). But several people have tried to give her realistic expectations, which is much more constructive and educational than blowing smoke up somebody's skirt and WK'ing for unrealistic ideals.
  • donkey9512
    donkey9512 Posts: 60 Member
    edited September 2017
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    e123b123 wrote: »
    I put on a nice amount of muscle, but when i started cutting, it was getting tuff to even lift the same weight i used to.

    Its extremely tuff to gain muscle and lose body fat at the same time.

    So my answer would be No.
    In general I would agree with you. However,
    everyone is different. I know that I struggle to not get fat. Some are luckier than others. Back in the day of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane, I doubt they did this yoyo stuff of bulking and cutting. They just knew how to train and eat. Of course they also have a genetic advantage. Life ain't fair! Deal with it nay sayers!

    To all the nay-sayers, did you ever consider that maybe the OP is genetically gifted?

    @OP, ignore the negative comments. They're just jealous.

    Be sure to read:. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet

    There are multiple ways to do things of course. Nothing wrong with choosing recomp or bulking. Different people will find success with it depending on several factors (stats, bodyfat%, goals, etc)

    I am currently 130lbs. My ultimate goal is to be 140lbs with the same bodyfat%. .. recomp would not be for me that case (unless you consider really slow bulking over many years recomping) but why the hate on bulk/cut? It works for many people... it has been the best thing I ever did for my physique.

    I am glad that bulk and cut worked for you. Why is it that when someone suggests that they gained only muscle that they must be a liar?...

    Because it's basically physiologically impossible to gain muscle without fat.

    Even steroid users gain fat along with muscle, and the drugs give them far better partitioning than any natural trainer could ever hope for, genetic outlier or not.

    People who claim they're gaining exclusively muscle are getting their "measurements" from faulty sources.

    I agree with you but it may be possible for some to gain 75% muscle and 25% fat. Humans would have died off 10000 years ago if there was not a bias to store fat. Biological we would haved died off if we could not store fat for the lean months. Fat has something lile 9 calories per gram versus 4 for protien. So calorie wise maybe we store 75 % in fat and 25% in muscle. Pound per point it could be 50/50. My point is that there are many variables and the science is all over the place.

    I agree, Muscle and Fitness magazine is far from authoritative source. Nevertheless, there is a need for more research and less bro-science.

    Whereas muscle is more expendible therefore the evolution and science supports this notion. However, there are always exceptions. The gene pool is mutating. Sounds like an X-Men story but there is nothing prevent variability in the gains.

    I think it is possible to have mini bulk/ cut cycles coupled with the fact that some have a better capacity for muscle gain. So when taking measurements at two points in time that are within the mini cycles of bulk and cut, it would be the case that you measure only a gain in muscle.

    Debate is great and I enjoy this discussion.

    However, some posters above were expressing categorical views which could be construed as demotivating to the OP. THE OP has a trainer that has given her feed back and her pictures don't lie. Therefore who are we to doubt?

    Who are we to doubt? The trainer who's telling her she gained 6 pounds of muscle and zero fat, because that's physiologically impossible.

    Nobody is "demotivating" the OP. Read back through the thread, almost every single person has complimented her on her progress (and rightfully so). But several people have tried to give her realistic expectations, which is much more constructive and educational than blowing smoke up somebody's skirt and WK'ing for unrealistic ideals.
    I generally agreed and conceded that fat is gained with muscle.

    I allow for the possibility that over the course of 6 months it may be possible to gain 6 lbs of muscle and very little measurable fat gain. I don't want to blow smoke.

    Not likely for most.
    Maybe we should get back to the OP. I did not mean to hijack the thread. Apologies.
  • destinykeith22
    destinykeith22 Posts: 17 Member
    moogie_fit wrote: »
    It has taken a whole year to gain the 6 lbs ladies, so thanks but my trainer does keep track my measurements. It's not mostly fat.. especially since it's my stomach that has gotten flatter.. I have abs now. The gains have mostly been lower body with a little upper body.

    Then ask your trainer for advice...

    Thanks.... take the attitude elsewhere hun
  • destinykeith22
    destinykeith22 Posts: 17 Member
    Thanks everyone!
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,148 Member
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    Everyone is different. The argument s were so polarized that I needed to bring an opposing argument to balance.
    Back to OP, I think it's possible to gain muscle and minimize fat gains.

    nope, we are all the same when it comes go gaining muscle/losing fat..

    calorie surplus + progressive lifting for muscle gains.
    calorie deficit + high protein intake + progressive lifting to lose fat and retain muscle...
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,826 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    Everyone is different. The argument s were so polarized that I needed to bring an opposing argument to balance.
    Back to OP, I think it's possible to gain muscle and minimize fat gains.

    nope, we are all the same when it comes go gaining muscle/losing fat..

    calorie surplus + progressive lifting for muscle gains.
    calorie deficit + high protein intake + progressive lifting to lose fat and retain muscle...

    Shhhh... quit giving away all the secrets!! :p
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,148 Member
    pbryd wrote: »
    The negativity and nit picking int his thread is off the chart, is this supposed to be a support forum or a forum where we jump down peoples throats?

    You've made great progress OP, keep it up.

    everyone said she has made great progress..

    we are just pointing out that it is impossible to have muscle gain without a corresponding fat gain, which is not negative, it is a fact.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,148 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    donkey9512 wrote: »
    Everyone is different. The argument s were so polarized that I needed to bring an opposing argument to balance.
    Back to OP, I think it's possible to gain muscle and minimize fat gains.

    nope, we are all the same when it comes go gaining muscle/losing fat..

    calorie surplus + progressive lifting for muscle gains.
    calorie deficit + high protein intake + progressive lifting to lose fat and retain muscle...

    Shhhh... quit giving away all the secrets!! :p

    I keep wanting to write a book on fitness, but all I have is one page... :(:p
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,739 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    pbryd wrote: »
    The negativity and nit picking int his thread is off the chart, is this supposed to be a support forum or a forum where we jump down peoples throats?

    You've made great progress OP, keep it up.

    everyone said she has made great progress..

    we are just pointing out that it is impossible to have muscle gain without a corresponding fat gain, which is not negative, it is a fact.

    But but but it goes against the fitness industry's assertion that you gain massice amount of pure muscle by just looking at weights so you are just being negative.
  • DancingMoosie
    DancingMoosie Posts: 8,079 Member
    Your progress looks great---did you increase your calories over time continuously while bulking?

    I did not, should I? Would that help?

    If you don't increase your calories, how do you stay in a surplus to bulk?
  • mreichard
    mreichard Posts: 237 Member
    OP, I'm a total novice at all this, but it seems to me that a lot of people are getting a little hung up in talking about bulk/cut cycles as if that's what you had been doing.

    Looking at your pics and hearing that this is progress over the course of a year with minimal weight change, it looks to me like you have basically been successfully recomping. If it were me, I wouldn't do anything different unless you are unsatisfied with the pace of change. To me, what you are doing seems to be working.