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Can diet affect your mental health?
Replies
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Tankiscool wrote: »Diet as what meaning? What someone eats? Or when someone is in a calorie deficit. Either way one could argue there is a very likely chance. When you go on a "diet" meaning you are eating less to loose weight you put stress on your body, top that with a moderate exercise regimen and your stressing it even more. We all know how stress can affect us mentally. The other way of what someones diet is when they eat *kitten*, they feel like *kitten*.
Interestingly, I am far more stressed when I eat like s.h.i.t and don't exercise than when I manage my caloric intake and exercise almost daily.
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Mental health is not one simple issue. For those who have issues there is an individual reason, it may well share factors from this or that wider umbrella but it comes down to what that single person needs.
I find it frightening that here in the UK, NICE, the committee who stays what is and what is not good practice here, goes against what most of the rest of the world sees as good practice. My pet peve is their refusal to permit the testing of a full panel of thyroid hormones. Particullarly the t3 levels. I can't remember the full title of this hormone. In many medical texts t3 is referred to as, the brain hormone, the brain needs it almost more than any other of our organs. Part of the problem is this hormone comes in two variants, t3 as mentioned and revere t3, reversion happens when someone is lacking vitamins and minerals to facilitate conversion of t4 the first stage thyroid hormone into the t3 or if there are any reverse t3 which will not fit into the receptors in each cell. If you read the literature, thyroid support sites, medical papers you can read all this for yourself. Many other illnesses encompass symptoms like those experienced by the hypo person, hyper brings its own issues but I've not researched these.
(being hypothyroid is sub divided into those who are iodine deficient, dietary and those who are experiencing an autoimmune attack on the thyroid and potentially other organs. The general medical principal is not to address thyroid antibodies, in the hypothyroid situation, their causes are complex, when in all other conditions this is the first line of action)
A couple of years ago a London hospital did research into anorexia, one of the outcomes was that where a person is given t3 supplementation their symptoms decreased and many recovered. This was part of a radio programme. I wonder now how those person are getting on now because t3 here is, according to those who know, totally irrelevant. It only has significance in PCOS, Diabetes, liver dysfunction and many more life limiting issues including mental health. I know they are throwing the baby out with the bath water here.
To take up Gale's input on the impact of prenatal maternal health. It is frightening. I consider I was born with a perfectly functioning body, you reading this are of the same opinion, your body a birth was perfect and worked to perfection. Only now scientific research is revealing that we as a species have reduced the microbes in our diet by being selective in our choice of foods and having the species we eat selected for us. One, I hate to call them, Tribe, I have no preferable word, these people are still living in their natural way and have many times the digestive microbes than we do. One of the scientific researchers took it on himself to do a faecal transplant from one from the group. His volume of Microbes were tested daily before and after and it took 3 months for the additional species to reduce because he was not eating the roots the tribe does. The theory behind this is our lack of microbes contributes to IBS and similar health issues. (The food programme, one in 2016 and others 17)
There is research out there which cites the difference in health between C-section and virginal birth children. I doubt any woman would opt for a c-section without strong medical advice, so please, not criticising any one, I'd have done it for mine had it been necessary. Children born by C-section have fewer digestive microbes than the others. It is simply a fact of the situation. Lacking different microbes causes health issues, there are substantial differences one to another. Even mothers who have taken even a few rounds of antibiotics, or used large amounts of over the counter pain relief or even had a restricted diet are also at risk of passing on fewer microbes than our great grandmothers did.
Another thing I have come across in my search for my own health salvation is the role mitochondria plays in our health, tucked away doing their own thing they can be diminished by too little of this or that essential substance. It is such a broad subject. In the UK there has been discussion, replacement of a mothers mitochondria with another's can, in vitro, save the much wanted child from some disabling problem which has devastated the lives of many in that family.
I think someone earlier mentioned vitamin b 12 deficiency. B 12 requires the presence of what the identifying scientists called "the intrinsic factor" because without it, a body is unable to transport this vital vitamin to its point of absorption. Many in the medical profession see a good haemoglobin count and never test the ferritin levels. Many are low in b12 and ferritin, left to suffer. Recent investigations have linked low b12 to dementure in the elderly.
If you add the role chemicals play in our modern lives. All these things can put pressure on the liver and other organs in our elimination systems. At my worst I could not go out for the smells in my environment of others laundry residues, cleaning products, I gave up cosmetics a life time ago. It took me a long time to realise it was the polluted air, from perfumes, laundry residues, news print and more on a bus which was making me ill not the movement of the bus. Many consider sick building syndrome to be fake, the build up of moulds in our buildings can cause a wide spectrum of health issues, (I include mental health problems)
Western medicine separates the systems of our bodies by function it does not consider the interactions of our organs. The growing movement identify these interaction and solutions is improving peoples health, be it general health or mental health.
There will never be one simple answer to mental health conditions. I hope there will be additions and alternatives to the prescribed chemicals which are being give to people with limited effect in some/many cases.
It is surprising how many of these problems I have identified are possibly present in autistic people. We are personal health jigsaw puzzles.
I look forward to the woo button being used, if you have read me, an elderly biddy who has gone out to search for her own answers to a broad spectrum of issues, who is in better health than at the age of 40, I've at least given you food for thought.8 -
Tankiscool wrote: »Diet as what meaning? What someone eats? Or when someone is in a calorie deficit. Either way one could argue there is a very likely chance. When you go on a "diet" meaning you are eating less to loose weight you put stress on your body, top that with a moderate exercise regimen and your stressing it even more. We all know how stress can affect us mentally. The other way of what someones diet is when they eat *kitten*, they feel like *kitten*.
Interestingly, I am far more stressed when I eat like s.h.i.t and don't exercise than when I manage my caloric intake and exercise almost daily.
I feel the same, but I would attribute it more to exercise than to diet. The exception might be diet extremes, such as when I haven't been getting adequate nutrition and/or when I severely overeat/binge.
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goldthistime wrote: »Tankiscool wrote: »Diet as what meaning? What someone eats? Or when someone is in a calorie deficit. Either way one could argue there is a very likely chance. When you go on a "diet" meaning you are eating less to loose weight you put stress on your body, top that with a moderate exercise regimen and your stressing it even more. We all know how stress can affect us mentally. The other way of what someones diet is when they eat *kitten*, they feel like *kitten*.
Interestingly, I am far more stressed when I eat like s.h.i.t and don't exercise than when I manage my caloric intake and exercise almost daily.
I feel the same, but I would attribute it more to exercise than to diet. The exception might be diet extremes, such as when I haven't been getting adequate nutrition and/or when I severely overeat/binge.
This is exactly the same for me.
Another factor is that when I'm super stressed or life feels unmanageable and overwhelming my (dysfunctional) response tends to be to let things go. When I stop thinking that the stressful things mean that I cannot live my normal life at all and make room for the things I normally do -- morning prayer or meditation, exercise, doing the dishes, making dinner, so on, I feel way less stressed. I'd include eating decent meals/healthfully as part of that. Basically a minimum of self care and routine and taking control of what can be controlled.
Nothing to do with specific foods making a difference.
Another thought I have is that when I first started I'd been super stressed and anxious and very down (not what I think of as the darkest times, but definitely lots of bad days). I put together a weight loss plan, forced myself to get on the scale (which I'd been scared to do for ages), deal with the number, started including some more activity in my days, journaling some related to my plan, and eating much better in that I was eating regular meals, no snacking, AND cut out added sugar (experiment) and grains (more than that really, as I tried a paleo thing). I was probably low-ish carb (around 100 g), and I was low cal (1200 or so).
I felt immediately great, which I at first attributed to no sugar or lower carbs.
After about a month I added back some grains (more legumes -- I don't care that much about grains) and some added sugar (indeed, I started having dessert occasionally after dinner). I kept up with everything else, and I felt as good or better.
Much, much later, after I had lost most of the weight (and NOT eaten low carb to get there, more like 40%, and not kept added sugar out of my diet, although -- as before I lost weight -- I wasn't really a sugar monster and also always ate lots of vegetables), I started feeling down (the dark days) and anxious and angry and various old bugaboos again (related to past trauma plus the fact I do think I'm just genetically inclined toward depression in that it's common in my family). I actually went through a very bad time about a year (bit more) ago. I tried (among other things) cutting out added sugar and grains again, even though I no longer thought it was really the reason for my positive change before and it did no good. Ultimately I decided to deal with some stuff through therapy.
Once again I find that when I take control of small things I can, which include eating well and exercising, it helps. But the idea that a specific diet makes all the difference, no, and my attribution of the change back when I started this weight loss to the diet change was clearly, in retrospect, a misattribution.1 -
The study that Gale posted was indeed interesting, however, it shouldn't be viewed as he's thinking it should.
You won't eradicate "the dark days of the past" with good maternal nutrition.
My mother had perfectly fine maternal nutrition while she was pregnant with me.
Mental illness has existed for millennia. Granted, there were times of poverty and people had poor diets then. But wealthy people whose mothers had access to perfectly fine diets have had fallen victim to it.
Those of you who think the answer to it is to be found in proper diet really, really have no clue.
Perhaps there might be fewer people dealing with it, but then maybe, just maybe, the root cause of their issues is nutritional and the symptoms are those usually displayed by those having mental illness. In other words, it's not the same disease pathology.
I can give a personal example where I had the symptoms of one disease, but the cause was one of my autoimmune conditions, for example.
Depression, for example, is a side-effect of some diseases like chronic migraine.
It can become pretty bad. That doesn't mean that a person with chronic migraines is clinically depressed.
Clinical depression is its own disease state. The root cause of a person suffering from clinical depression is different from someone suffering from depression due to chronic pain.
Likewise, someone who has nutritional deficiencies that bring on depression would be suffering from a different disease state than someone who has genuine clinical depression.9 -
I've had an additional thought I'd like to add. I didn't go looking at the linked studies, but I'd be interested to see the confounding factors in the women who had poor diets while pregnant.
Correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, and those confounders could just as likely play a role.
Given that the main thrust of the argument was built on a cohort study, all you have are correlative findings, and there will be a whole host of confounding variables at play.
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Tankiscool wrote: »Diet as what meaning? What someone eats? Or when someone is in a calorie deficit. Either way one could argue there is a very likely chance. When you go on a "diet" meaning you are eating less to loose weight you put stress on your body, top that with a moderate exercise regimen and your stressing it even more. We all know how stress can affect us mentally. The other way of what someones diet is when they eat *kitten*, they feel like *kitten*.
Interestingly, I am far more stressed when I eat like s.h.i.t and don't exercise than when I manage my caloric intake and exercise almost daily.
I am just the opposite. I eat like *kitten* when I am stressed, not the other way around.3 -
As someone who has struggled with mental health issues AND with weight issues I firmly believe that my depression causes me to eat poorly and too much, not the other way around. I was at a healthy weight and ate well before the depression first hit in college. After that, I have struggled with both.
I have my own depression scale:- Even keel. Doing well, in control, able to just glide over whatever waves come my way.
- My eating habits go south. This is the first indicator that I am at the top of a spiral. If I can get my eating back on track, I often am able to halt an oncoming depressive episode
- My housekeeping goes south
- My personal care (showering, getting dressed, etc) goes bad
- I spend all day in bed with books and food.
Yes, my eating and exercise habits are firmly entwined with my mental health but it is a symptom, not a cause of depression.
Yup, this is me. I still haven't learned to catch it when the eating habits go south. It's usually about the time I go looking for a clean dish and notice the sink is full and I have a slice of pizza in my hand that I realize all is not well in Siegfriedland5 -
So someone was telling me the other day about how mentally unwell people tend to have bad diets and a higher risk for obesity. I looked this up and it's somewhat true. However, this person claimed that these people were mentally unwell BECAUSE they had a bad diet. This didn't make sense to me. I always thought that the mental illness came first and because of the illness, the person then has zero energy or motivation to shop, cook, etc and so often just eats crisps, microwave meals, takeaways/fast food etc which then leads to comorbid factors like obesity. What do you think?
I haven't read through all the pages of comments, so I don't know if someone mentioned Vitamin D.
Low Vitamin D can result in many problems, including depression or a down in the dumps mood. Here's one article, but there are thousands more online: http://www.prevention.com/health/symptoms-of-vitamin-d-deficiency/slide/5
(Low Vitamin D also increases the risk of colon polyps, the major cause of colon cancer, plus a higher risk of fractures and many other problems. A simple blood test can tell whether you have the deficiency).3 -
I'm schizophrenic. Diet doesn't affect that at all. I also suffer from anxiety and depression, which gets WAY better when I am eating healthier and not overeating, and exercising.
So some mental illnesses are 100% how the brain is wired, and anxiety and depression can very much be affected or brought on by what and how much food you eat. That's just from my personal experience and from others who have been hospitalized and in treatment with me. 6 -
Vitamin deficiencies can definitely have an effect on your mental health. I was diagnosed a few years back as having a serious Vitamin D deficiency. I also fought chronic depression. After I was told to take 2,000 units of D3 a day, within a week, the depression started to lift, I had more energy and just generally felt like myself again for the first time in years. If you are eating poorly (lots of processed foods, sugar, etc.) it can deplete your body of vitamins and minerals and that can definitely result in fatigue, poor mood, etc.5
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Bwah hahaha, hallucinations. What an idea lol. Man, let's go to Mickey D's, I hear you can trip for hours! ....( and that's about the only way I'd eat McD's, but that's neither here nor there because it doesn't work like that.) I can just imagine someone passing out dollar value meals at a rave. XD0
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Iamnotasenior wrote: »Vitamin deficiencies can definitely have an effect on your mental health. I was diagnosed a few years back as having a serious Vitamin D deficiency. I also fought chronic depression. After I was told to take 2,000 units of D3 a day, within a week, the depression started to lift, I had more energy and just generally felt like myself again for the first time in years. If you are eating poorly (lots of processed foods, sugar, etc.) it can deplete your body of vitamins and minerals and that can definitely result in fatigue, poor mood, etc.
I want to add my own experiences with vitamin D. I started taking vit D last year regularly for the first time and found my SAD was quite decreased in the winter. A few weeks ago I stopped taking my pills (it's summer and they were always annoyingly stuck in my throat), but soon after found myself gloomier on cloudy days than I had been for a while. Maybe all coincidental, maybe not.
I can't recall if this was mentioned upthread already, but vit D can get "trapped" in fat cells as you gain weight, reducing available levels in your bloodstream. If I ever encounter a time again when life becomes overwhelming and I start to take care of myself less and gain weight, I hope to at least increase my vit D intake.
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goldthistime wrote: »Iamnotasenior wrote: »Vitamin deficiencies can definitely have an effect on your mental health. I was diagnosed a few years back as having a serious Vitamin D deficiency. I also fought chronic depression. After I was told to take 2,000 units of D3 a day, within a week, the depression started to lift, I had more energy and just generally felt like myself again for the first time in years. If you are eating poorly (lots of processed foods, sugar, etc.) it can deplete your body of vitamins and minerals and that can definitely result in fatigue, poor mood, etc.
I want to add my own experiences with vitamin D. I started taking vit D last year regularly for the first time and found my SAD was quite decreased in the winter. A few weeks ago I stopped taking my pills (it's summer and they were always annoyingly stuck in my throat), but soon after found myself gloomier on cloudy days than I had been for a while. Maybe all coincidental, maybe not.
I can't recall if this was mentioned upthread already, but vit D can get "trapped" in fat cells as you gain weight, reducing available levels in your bloodstream. If I ever encounter a time again when life becomes overwhelming and I start to take care of myself less and gain weight, I hope to at least increase my vit D intake.
Nature's Way (and other "natural" brands) has tiny gel tabs that I take, much easier than the chalky regular tabs 3 -
goldthistime wrote: »Iamnotasenior wrote: »Vitamin deficiencies can definitely have an effect on your mental health. I was diagnosed a few years back as having a serious Vitamin D deficiency. I also fought chronic depression. After I was told to take 2,000 units of D3 a day, within a week, the depression started to lift, I had more energy and just generally felt like myself again for the first time in years. If you are eating poorly (lots of processed foods, sugar, etc.) it can deplete your body of vitamins and minerals and that can definitely result in fatigue, poor mood, etc.
I want to add my own experiences with vitamin D. I started taking vit D last year regularly for the first time and found my SAD was quite decreased in the winter. A few weeks ago I stopped taking my pills (it's summer and they were always annoyingly stuck in my throat), but soon after found myself gloomier on cloudy days than I had been for a while. Maybe all coincidental, maybe not.
I can't recall if this was mentioned upthread already, but vit D can get "trapped" in fat cells as you gain weight, reducing available levels in your bloodstream. If I ever encounter a time again when life becomes overwhelming and I start to take care of myself less and gain weight, I hope to at least increase my vit D intake.
Nature's Way (and other "natural" brands) has tiny gel tabs that I take, much easier than the chalky regular tabs
I went looking for them and found D3 gel tabs. Thanks for the tip!
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Yes - Vitamin D was a game-changer for me, too. I used to be almost bed-bound in the long winters here. Now I feel pretty darn good and I'm able to exercise all winter long. I think Vit D helped me with weight loss too. Purely anecdotal, but without the depression I feel like eating well and getting out more.4
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I think for some it has a direct effect. Some people just have chemical imbalances that cause mental illness. But in this case that you are talking about, I say diet can directly affect mental well being. For example, myself, I was eating crap food and was miserable all the time. I had no energy, I was not in a good place. I wanted to play with my kid but I just couldn't. Then I would start being miserable, and food made me feel better. I would eat until I was even more miserable. Its a vicious cycle that takes a toll on your mental being. Now, that I am eating a better diet, I exercise every day, I feel great. I have more energy. I still get down some days, but a gym visit makes it better. Those good endorphins are rolling!4
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As someone who has struggled with mental health issues AND with weight issues I firmly believe that my depression causes me to eat poorly and too much, not the other way around. I was at a healthy weight and ate well before the depression first hit in college. After that, I have struggled with both.
I have my own depression scale:- Even keel. Doing well, in control, able to just glide over whatever waves come my way.
- My eating habits go south. This is the first indicator that I am at the top of a spiral. If I can get my eating back on track, I often am able to halt an oncoming depressive episode
- My housekeeping goes south
- My personal care (showering, getting dressed, etc) goes bad
- I spend all day in bed with books and food.
Yes, my eating and exercise habits are firmly entwined with my mental health but it is a symptom, not a cause of depression.
This is great. I love your scale.3 -
Anecdotal evidence alert - however, my experience is pretty easy to explain scientifically.
I was diagnosed with clinical depression when I was 19. I had a BMI of <14 and I'm not going to say how little I was eating. Four years later, and I am off the anti-depressants. I am nearly 20kg heavier, eating 5x the amount, and my diet is comprised of 80% wholesome nutritious foods rather than low-calorie processed crap. I exercise regularly. I am no longer diagnosed with depression. It took significant weight gain and improved intake before my mental health began to improve too.
The doctor and psychiatrist explained it pretty simply. While malnourished, your body becomes far more efficient with its calories. Your brain stops working properly. Endorphins could no penetrate what my doctor described metaphorically as a "layer" over my brain. Your brain also needs fuel - carbs - to function. While clinical depression is, for many, a genetic condition - for other such as myself, it was a direct consequence of physical health caused by malnourishment.3 -
To respond to the original question:
Can diet affect mental health?
Sure. In fact, I'd say 'obviously.' Because firstly, our mind is simply part of our body, and it requires certain nutrients to function properly, because they are required to make certain neurochemicals, for certain processes to work, and so on. That's a no brainer.
Second, for SOME people, diet has a bigger impact on their body. Celiac disease is known for causing depression and anxiety, so a dietary change for a celiac is going to have a huge impact. Some people have problems processing sulfur due to a metabolic pathway issue so need a low sulfur diet. Some people can't process fats well, or protein, or whatever...so for all of these folks, diet is going to be more impactful than for the general population.
Not the SAME diet, mind you. A SPECIFIC diet. Just 'eating better' is not going to do anything other than make a person healthier in general. And for those with illnesses or conditions that involve special diets, 'eating better' may be different than for the general population, anyway, and actually cause harm.
That said...
Are these people mentally unwell BECAUSE they had a bad diet?
No. Just no. Because the question here is NOT whether or not people who, say, have celiac disease are mentally unwell because they have a bad diet. It's implying that any average Joe who eats a bad diet would develop mental problems.
First, that could be disproven just taking a look around the block. The general population has SO MANY with crap diets, and yet huge numbers of them do not have mental illnesses. If diet alone was the cause of mental illness, we'd have a lot more of it, would we not? It's one of those lovely correlation vs. causation issues. There may be studies showing that people with mental illness are more likely to HAVE crap diets, but the REAL question is: are people with crap diets more likely to develop mental illnesses? And I have seen little evidence of THAT sort of clustering of mental illness and poor diets, in studies.
Second, this belief of poor diet causing mental illness REALLY smacks of a problem that has been in our society for a long, long time. The idea that people with mental illnesses could get better 'if they just tried harder.' It is what causes a lot of bigotry and prejudice against those who are mentally ill (and many of the physically disabled, too, actually). 'You're depressed/schizophrenic/bipolar because you didn't exercise, didn't eat right, didn't do enough yoga, didn't do SOMETHING right.' (seriously, this sort of crap is so prevalent among those with ongoing physical and mental illnesses, there are joke bingo cards on it - https://myheartsisters.org/2014/11/23/chronic-illness-bingo/ )
Seriously, the attitude falls in line with old beliefs that presume if you are rich, healthy, etc... it's always because YOU did something right (or pleased God). And if someone else is poor, sick, etc.., well, it's because they didn't do what YOU did. They did something wrong (or pissed off God). Genetics, mother nature, accidents, vicissitudes of fate - they are all completely ignored as even possible causes.
That doesn't mean that some people didn't work hard for their good health. I am very aware that some people found what was their problem and worked their butt off to fix it, and it paid off. But assuming this works for everyone ignores the fact that some people worked JUST AS HARD and did not get the same results. Some people ate just as well, did just as much meditation, just as much yoga, and it DID NOT HELP THEM.
I admit, this is a hot button for me. I and my daughter both have the same disease: celiac disease. For me, the change to gluten free completely cured my depression of over 20 years. Bam, it was gone. Nothing else needed, because the disease had been the underlying cause all along. My daughter? Yeah, it helped a little. She was less tired, but it didn't eliminate her mental illness. NOTHING eliminated that, not meditation, not vitamins, not a better diet that involves organic foods, and is almost entirely made from scratch with veggies and fruits and so on. She. needed medication, and even with that, she still struggles.
And I have heard SO MANY people give her advice about how to 'make it better.' As though it is obvious that ANYONE suffering from mental illness just needs to do X exercises or eat Y foods and they'd be completely cured. And aren't we so silly for not realizing that and taking no measures at all to try and help her, all this time. :-/
I think what it boils down to, and people who say 'poor diet is causing it all' aren't getting, is that people are complicated. What goes wrong in the human body can be complicated. And there we're all unique, on top of that. So assuming that we KNOW why something is happening to the entire population is entirely too simplistic of a view.
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To respond to the original question:
Can diet affect mental health?
Sure. In fact, I'd say 'obviously.' Because firstly, our mind is simply part of our body, and it requires certain nutrients to function properly, because they are required to make certain neurochemicals, for certain processes to work, and so on. That's a no brainer.
Second, for SOME people, diet has a bigger impact on their body. Celiac disease is known for causing depression and anxiety, so a dietary change for a celiac is going to have a huge impact. Some people have problems processing sulfur due to a metabolic pathway issue so need a low sulfur diet. Some people can't process fats well, or protein, or whatever...so for all of these folks, diet is going to be more impactful than for the general population.
Not the SAME diet, mind you. A SPECIFIC diet. Just 'eating better' is not going to do anything other than make a person healthier in general. And for those with illnesses or conditions that involve special diets, 'eating better' may be different than for the general population, anyway, and actually cause harm.
That said...
Are these people mentally unwell BECAUSE they had a bad diet?
No. Just no. Because the question here is NOT whether or not people who, say, have celiac disease are mentally unwell because they have a bad diet. It's implying that any average Joe who eats a bad diet would develop mental problems.
First, that could be disproven just taking a look around the block. The general population has SO MANY with crap diets, and yet huge numbers of them do not have mental illnesses. If diet alone was the cause of mental illness, we'd have a lot more of it, would we not? It's one of those lovely correlation vs. causation issues. There may be studies showing that people with mental illness are more likely to HAVE crap diets, but the REAL question is: are people with crap diets more likely to develop mental illnesses? And I have seen little evidence of THAT sort of clustering of mental illness and poor diets, in studies.
Second, this belief of poor diet causing mental illness REALLY smacks of a problem that has been in our society for a long, long time. The idea that people with mental illnesses could get better 'if they just tried harder.' It is what causes a lot of bigotry and prejudice against those who are mentally ill (and many of the physically disabled, too, actually). 'You're depressed/schizophrenic/bipolar because you didn't exercise, didn't eat right, didn't do enough yoga, didn't do SOMETHING right.' (seriously, this sort of crap is so prevalent among those with ongoing physical and mental illnesses, there are joke bingo cards on it - https://myheartsisters.org/2014/11/23/chronic-illness-bingo/ )
Seriously, the attitude falls in line with old beliefs that presume if you are rich, healthy, etc... it's always because YOU did something right (or pleased God). And if someone else is poor, sick, etc.., well, it's because they didn't do what YOU did. They did something wrong (or pissed off God). Genetics, mother nature, accidents, vicissitudes of fate - they are all completely ignored as even possible causes.
That doesn't mean that some people didn't work hard for their good health. I am very aware that some people found what was their problem and worked their butt off to fix it, and it paid off. But assuming this works for everyone ignores the fact that some people worked JUST AS HARD and did not get the same results. Some people ate just as well, did just as much meditation, just as much yoga, and it DID NOT HELP THEM.
I admit, this is a hot button for me. I and my daughter both have the same disease: celiac disease. For me, the change to gluten free completely cured my depression of over 20 years. Bam, it was gone. Nothing else needed, because the disease had been the underlying cause all along. My daughter? Yeah, it helped a little. She was less tired, but it didn't eliminate her mental illness. NOTHING eliminated that, not meditation, not vitamins, not a better diet that involves organic foods, and is almost entirely made from scratch with veggies and fruits and so on. She. needed medication, and even with that, she still struggles.
And I have heard SO MANY people give her advice about how to 'make it better.' As though it is obvious that ANYONE suffering from mental illness just needs to do X exercises or eat Y foods and they'd be completely cured. And aren't we so silly for not realizing that and taking no measures at all to try and help her, all this time. :-/
I think what it boils down to, and people who say 'poor diet is causing it all' aren't getting, is that people are complicated. What goes wrong in the human body can be complicated. And there we're all unique, on top of that. So assuming that we KNOW why something is happening to the entire population is entirely too simplistic of a view.
OMG I love this!!!! So true. I have crohn's and apparently everyone (who doesn't have it) is a doctor and knows the cure. It's frustrating. The worst I have seen is for cancer patients. I follow a few children with cancer on fb who are in the last stages and on every post someone inevitably asks if they have tried (insert any random alternative medicine or diet). I feel that's very insulting and implies that the parents haven't gone to the end of the earth looking for a cure and are just letting their child die.2 -
singingflutelady wrote: »To respond to the original question:
Can diet affect mental health?
Sure. In fact, I'd say 'obviously.' Because firstly, our mind is simply part of our body, and it requires certain nutrients to function properly, because they are required to make certain neurochemicals, for certain processes to work, and so on. That's a no brainer.
Second, for SOME people, diet has a bigger impact on their body. Celiac disease is known for causing depression and anxiety, so a dietary change for a celiac is going to have a huge impact. Some people have problems processing sulfur due to a metabolic pathway issue so need a low sulfur diet. Some people can't process fats well, or protein, or whatever...so for all of these folks, diet is going to be more impactful than for the general population.
Not the SAME diet, mind you. A SPECIFIC diet. Just 'eating better' is not going to do anything other than make a person healthier in general. And for those with illnesses or conditions that involve special diets, 'eating better' may be different than for the general population, anyway, and actually cause harm.
That said...
Are these people mentally unwell BECAUSE they had a bad diet?
No. Just no. Because the question here is NOT whether or not people who, say, have celiac disease are mentally unwell because they have a bad diet. It's implying that any average Joe who eats a bad diet would develop mental problems.
First, that could be disproven just taking a look around the block. The general population has SO MANY with crap diets, and yet huge numbers of them do not have mental illnesses. If diet alone was the cause of mental illness, we'd have a lot more of it, would we not? It's one of those lovely correlation vs. causation issues. There may be studies showing that people with mental illness are more likely to HAVE crap diets, but the REAL question is: are people with crap diets more likely to develop mental illnesses? And I have seen little evidence of THAT sort of clustering of mental illness and poor diets, in studies.
Second, this belief of poor diet causing mental illness REALLY smacks of a problem that has been in our society for a long, long time. The idea that people with mental illnesses could get better 'if they just tried harder.' It is what causes a lot of bigotry and prejudice against those who are mentally ill (and many of the physically disabled, too, actually). 'You're depressed/schizophrenic/bipolar because you didn't exercise, didn't eat right, didn't do enough yoga, didn't do SOMETHING right.' (seriously, this sort of crap is so prevalent among those with ongoing physical and mental illnesses, there are joke bingo cards on it - https://myheartsisters.org/2014/11/23/chronic-illness-bingo/ )
Seriously, the attitude falls in line with old beliefs that presume if you are rich, healthy, etc... it's always because YOU did something right (or pleased God). And if someone else is poor, sick, etc.., well, it's because they didn't do what YOU did. They did something wrong (or pissed off God). Genetics, mother nature, accidents, vicissitudes of fate - they are all completely ignored as even possible causes.
That doesn't mean that some people didn't work hard for their good health. I am very aware that some people found what was their problem and worked their butt off to fix it, and it paid off. But assuming this works for everyone ignores the fact that some people worked JUST AS HARD and did not get the same results. Some people ate just as well, did just as much meditation, just as much yoga, and it DID NOT HELP THEM.
I admit, this is a hot button for me. I and my daughter both have the same disease: celiac disease. For me, the change to gluten free completely cured my depression of over 20 years. Bam, it was gone. Nothing else needed, because the disease had been the underlying cause all along. My daughter? Yeah, it helped a little. She was less tired, but it didn't eliminate her mental illness. NOTHING eliminated that, not meditation, not vitamins, not a better diet that involves organic foods, and is almost entirely made from scratch with veggies and fruits and so on. She. needed medication, and even with that, she still struggles.
And I have heard SO MANY people give her advice about how to 'make it better.' As though it is obvious that ANYONE suffering from mental illness just needs to do X exercises or eat Y foods and they'd be completely cured. And aren't we so silly for not realizing that and taking no measures at all to try and help her, all this time. :-/
I think what it boils down to, and people who say 'poor diet is causing it all' aren't getting, is that people are complicated. What goes wrong in the human body can be complicated. And there we're all unique, on top of that. So assuming that we KNOW why something is happening to the entire population is entirely too simplistic of a view.
OMG I love this!!!! So true. I have crohn's and apparently everyone (who doesn't have it) is a doctor and knows the cure. It's frustrating. The worst I have seen is for cancer patients. I follow a few children with cancer on fb who are in the last stages and on every post someone inevitably asks if they have tried (insert any random alternative medicine or diet). I feel that's very insulting and implies that the parents haven't gone to the end of the earth looking for a cure and are just letting their child die.
I love this too. I have moderate bipolar disorder, and the only thing that helps my mental illness is a handful of medication twice a day. Including vitamin D, which I supplement rather than going outside in the sun. It's very hot here most of the year, and I don't like the heat.
Good nutrition and exercise help my health, but neither have any bearing on my mood swings.1 -
It definitely can - watch "that sugar film"
Sugar causes a big spike in the "feel good" chems in your brain then drops right down leaving you feeling lethargic and depressed.5 -
debmclernon wrote: »It definitely can - watch "that sugar film"
Sugar causes a big spike in the "feel good" chems in your brain then drops right down leaving you feeling lethargic and depressed.
Nope. You need to stop. Sugar is not the cause of depression in anyone.5 -
singingflutelady wrote: »To respond to the original question:
Can diet affect mental health?
Sure. In fact, I'd say 'obviously.' Because firstly, our mind is simply part of our body, and it requires certain nutrients to function properly, because they are required to make certain neurochemicals, for certain processes to work, and so on. That's a no brainer.
Second, for SOME people, diet has a bigger impact on their body. Celiac disease is known for causing depression and anxiety, so a dietary change for a celiac is going to have a huge impact. Some people have problems processing sulfur due to a metabolic pathway issue so need a low sulfur diet. Some people can't process fats well, or protein, or whatever...so for all of these folks, diet is going to be more impactful than for the general population.
Not the SAME diet, mind you. A SPECIFIC diet. Just 'eating better' is not going to do anything other than make a person healthier in general. And for those with illnesses or conditions that involve special diets, 'eating better' may be different than for the general population, anyway, and actually cause harm.
That said...
Are these people mentally unwell BECAUSE they had a bad diet?
No. Just no. Because the question here is NOT whether or not people who, say, have celiac disease are mentally unwell because they have a bad diet. It's implying that any average Joe who eats a bad diet would develop mental problems.
First, that could be disproven just taking a look around the block. The general population has SO MANY with crap diets, and yet huge numbers of them do not have mental illnesses. If diet alone was the cause of mental illness, we'd have a lot more of it, would we not? It's one of those lovely correlation vs. causation issues. There may be studies showing that people with mental illness are more likely to HAVE crap diets, but the REAL question is: are people with crap diets more likely to develop mental illnesses? And I have seen little evidence of THAT sort of clustering of mental illness and poor diets, in studies.
Second, this belief of poor diet causing mental illness REALLY smacks of a problem that has been in our society for a long, long time. The idea that people with mental illnesses could get better 'if they just tried harder.' It is what causes a lot of bigotry and prejudice against those who are mentally ill (and many of the physically disabled, too, actually). 'You're depressed/schizophrenic/bipolar because you didn't exercise, didn't eat right, didn't do enough yoga, didn't do SOMETHING right.' (seriously, this sort of crap is so prevalent among those with ongoing physical and mental illnesses, there are joke bingo cards on it - https://myheartsisters.org/2014/11/23/chronic-illness-bingo/ )
Seriously, the attitude falls in line with old beliefs that presume if you are rich, healthy, etc... it's always because YOU did something right (or pleased God). And if someone else is poor, sick, etc.., well, it's because they didn't do what YOU did. They did something wrong (or pissed off God). Genetics, mother nature, accidents, vicissitudes of fate - they are all completely ignored as even possible causes.
That doesn't mean that some people didn't work hard for their good health. I am very aware that some people found what was their problem and worked their butt off to fix it, and it paid off. But assuming this works for everyone ignores the fact that some people worked JUST AS HARD and did not get the same results. Some people ate just as well, did just as much meditation, just as much yoga, and it DID NOT HELP THEM.
I admit, this is a hot button for me. I and my daughter both have the same disease: celiac disease. For me, the change to gluten free completely cured my depression of over 20 years. Bam, it was gone. Nothing else needed, because the disease had been the underlying cause all along. My daughter? Yeah, it helped a little. She was less tired, but it didn't eliminate her mental illness. NOTHING eliminated that, not meditation, not vitamins, not a better diet that involves organic foods, and is almost entirely made from scratch with veggies and fruits and so on. She. needed medication, and even with that, she still struggles.
And I have heard SO MANY people give her advice about how to 'make it better.' As though it is obvious that ANYONE suffering from mental illness just needs to do X exercises or eat Y foods and they'd be completely cured. And aren't we so silly for not realizing that and taking no measures at all to try and help her, all this time. :-/
I think what it boils down to, and people who say 'poor diet is causing it all' aren't getting, is that people are complicated. What goes wrong in the human body can be complicated. And there we're all unique, on top of that. So assuming that we KNOW why something is happening to the entire population is entirely too simplistic of a view.
OMG I love this!!!! So true. I have crohn's and apparently everyone (who doesn't have it) is a doctor and knows the cure. It's frustrating. The worst I have seen is for cancer patients. I follow a few children with cancer on fb who are in the last stages and on every post someone inevitably asks if they have tried (insert any random alternative medicine or diet). I feel that's very insulting and implies that the parents haven't gone to the end of the earth looking for a cure and are just letting their child die.
I love this too. I have moderate bipolar disorder, and the only thing that helps my mental illness is a handful of medication twice a day. Including vitamin D, which I supplement rather than going outside in the sun. It's very hot here most of the year, and I don't like the heat.
Good nutrition and exercise help my health, but neither have any bearing on my mood swings.
Oh man, when I had my breakdown (and subsequent bipolar 2 diagnosis) EVERYONE had an opinion on how I should treat it and what would definitely help. Completely unsolicited. Drove me absolutely potty and it was very very hard to be polite when telling them where to shove it.3
This discussion has been closed.
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