Do you include/count calories from fruits &a veggies?
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »Who knew my little comment would get such a reaction.
So your goal is 1,700 calories. At dinner, other than the salad, you're at 1,625 calories. God forbid you don't count the lettuce and spinach and whatever, and go over and eat 1,725 calories that day. Guess what? You're not gaining weight!
Like I said, enjoy life!
You are smart enough to realise some track for more than just calories aren't you? You know, I really like to know how much iron, magnesium, potassium, fibre etc I am getting in a day and how can I know without weighing and correctly logging? Especially spinach which is low calorie wise but high nutrition wise. You do what you want if it works for you but to accuse others of having eating disorders because they track things like that is just wrong on so many levels.
Especially ironic from a guy who uses "nutrition" in his username...14 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »Who knew my little comment would get such a reaction.
So your goal is 1,700 calories. At dinner, other than the salad, you're at 1,625 calories. God forbid you don't count the lettuce and spinach and whatever, and go over and eat 1,725 calories that day. Guess what? You're not gaining weight!
Like I said, enjoy life!
Accurate logging doesn't mean that one isn't enjoying life though. It's a false dichotomy you're setting up there.
If accurate logging keeps someone from enjoying their life, they may need another method to control their weight. But for people who find it is useful, it can actually make life more enjoyable.8 -
yup - only takes 2 secs!2
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Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weight yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
Letting people know that counting calories tends to work better when you actually count calories isn't the same thing as telling people that they have to do it for the rest of their lives. Many people here have transitioned away from daily logging/calorie counting and they find they are able to maintain their weight loss.
I don't think anyone is saying that someone *must* log spinach and lettuce, they're just sharing that it's absolutely possible to eat vegetables -- even low calorie ones -- in quantities than can impact their results. Looking at my log, I see I had at least 200 calories of low calorie vegetables yesterday and if I was shooting for a deficit, that would be important to know.
In at least some cases, people conclude that calorie counting isn't working for them because they're either not logging everything they eat or they aren't accurately measuring quantities. We see it here virtually every day. While for many people, not logging fruits and vegetables can work (either because their deficit is large enough to allow for it or because they simply aren't eating very many fruits and vegetables), for others it's going to lead to frustration with lack of progress.12 -
I log it all, but I don't weigh salad greens (or greens in general, actually). I eyeball those and use a generous estimate. The difference that even a cup of baby spinach or even kale makes is so small, compared to the difference a tablespoon vs. two tablespoons of oil makes.
Fruit is almost all worth logging, because it really can add up fast.0 -
Yes and no.
If I forget to weigh a handful of spinach or like a lettuce leaf, I'm not going to stress it. But they do still have calories and some more than others. A banana can easily be over 100 calories, forget to do that x 7 and thats an extra 700 calories in the week just from a seemingly innocent banana.2 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.6 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
OP asked how important it is to log fruits and veggies when using MFP. We are all telling her it's important enough that we do log fruits & veggies. No one has said that MFP won't work unless you count every morsel of food, or that you have to weigh out salad leaves for the rest of your life. Not sure who you are arguing with, but no one in this thread has said any of that.6 -
Tomatoes have a surprisingly high amount of calories. Bananas aren't necessarily low calorie either.1
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Agent_Freckles wrote: »Tomatoes have a surprisingly high amount of calories. Bananas aren't necessarily low calorie either.
Huh? 20 calories for an average tomato. I'm not sure what entry you've been using.2 -
If they're made with Aspartame then no... If they have no added sugar definitely...2
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Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, they will tell you that doing that will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Since veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation, it should be pretty understandable why vegans aren't telling people to eat steak and chicken.
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Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Why do you keep bringing up vegans?9 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
So what you are saying is that you don't know what a vegan is. That is really the only useful information I got from that. Because even though you quote a book, you still said that people here tell "plant based vegans" (opposed to what other kind) that eating eggs, steak, grilled chicken, and fish will kill them.
4 -
Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, will tell you that eating that food will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
So what you are saying is that you don't know what a vegan is. That is really the only useful information I got from that. Because even though you quote a book, you still said that people here tell "plant based vegans" (opposed to what other kind) that eating eggs, steak, grilled chicken, and fish will kill them.
Breathetarians.
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Ericnutrition wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Ericnutrition wrote: »The problem with calorie counting for life, like a plant-based vegan diet, is that when it is suggested to people trying to lose weight, they will either refuse to do it, or try it and fail. That is the reality, like it or not. Just because most posters here have succeeded (like most posters on a plant-based vegan page have succeeded), doesn't mean you are going to get more than a tiny fraction of the population to try it and/or succeed.
Calorie counting is actually a great concept, because most overweight people have absolutely no clue how many calories they are eating. The lack of awareness is frightening. But again, the idea of counting calories for life is a total turnoff for most.
You could get a lot more people to count calories if it was suggested as a short-term solution. So let's say you count calories for two months and are successful in meeting your goals. But your sick of counting calories. So you just stop counting. Or, if you like counting, you can be a calorie counter for life.
And because you stop counting, it doesn't mean you are going to start eating 1,300-calorie fast-food lunches, and giant pieces of cheesecake for desert at dinner. In those two months, you have learned what you can eat, and what you can't eat to meet your goals.
Make sure you weigh yourself every few days. If for some reason you gain a couple of pounds, you can start counting again.
Stating that they have to count every morsel of food (including lettuce and spinach) they eat for the rest of their lives is not exactly going to bring lots of newbies onto the calorie counting bandwagon, no matter how easy it is to count.
So I am actually pro-calorie counting. But I am also looking at reality.
I'm puzzled by the intention behind your posts. Saying that one weighs and logs fruits and veggies *while actively calorie counting* doesn't mean that person intends to calorie count for life. I completely agree with you that many people would do fine logging for a while and then just watching the scale. I think among active posters here, it's most common to calorie count while maintaining a deficit, then stop while in maintenance, but I've never seen a bunch of people arguing that everyone needs to do this exactly the same way for success. I know that I personally find it easiest to maintain a deficit though calorie counting because the amount I eat varies throughout the week, which can make it hard to know if I'm on track from day to day. But hey, whatever works.
Newbies post here and are told by many posters to log absolutely everything. 100%. I believe that is counterproductive.
Plant based vegans would have much more success with newbies if they told them it's OK not be plant based for let's say four or five times a month (eggs, steak, grilled chicken, fish, etc.). But they never suggest that and in fact, they will tell you that doing that will kill you (see the bestselling book "How Not to Die" by Dr. Greger).
And that is just as counterproductive as telling a newbie to calorie counting to weigh all the veggies in a typical salad.
Just my opinion.
Since veganism is an ethical position on animal exploitation, it should be pretty understandable why vegans aren't telling people to eat steak and chicken.
A plant-based diet does not have to mean you are a vegan. You can have a plant-based diet strictly for health reasons, and therefore wear leather. Vegans don't wear leather. They don't even eat honey.
I have no problem with vegans. But the internet vegan gurus lie and say that a plant-based diet is the only way to be healthy. Nothing could be further from the truth.
But what does any of this have to do with what the OP is asking? She never once said she was vegan or plant based or vegetarian or a raging meat eater. She asked if she should log fruit and veggies. Never asked about if she should be vegan or plant-based either. I'm not sure what your agenda is but maybe starting your own post about it rather than hijacking the OPs would be a better route.14
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