Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Do you think there is any nutritional advantage to eating organic foods to justify the higher cost?
Replies
-
Long, but awesome booklet on organic agriculture, what it is and history of it.
http://orgprints.org/14043/1/14043.pdf0 -
@Tacklewasher
I'm sure the yield per acre is lower for organic but everything has its pros and cons. All we can do is make the best choices we can
As far as gmo foods go I think most all foods have been modified in one way or another. If I have a choice between organic,conventional or a gmo that has a pesticide built into it I'll go with organic...if I can't get organic conventional will do because the end product isn't hugely different. I think for now I'll walk away from built in pesticides....imo the jury is still out on that one4 -
I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.
even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.
I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.
I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.0 -
I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.
even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.
I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.
I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.
I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.0 -
@Tacklewasher
Yes, for most crops organic produces lower yields ( but not all, for example organic hay production outstrips conventional). But crop yields alone cannot be used to determine a "winner" in farming techniques.
Organic farming aims to be sustainable whereas conventional farming aims to maximise crop yields. Sustainable agriculture is the production of food, fiber, or other plant or animal products using farming techniques that protect the environment, public health, human communities, and animal welfare. This form of agriculture aims to produce healthful food without compromising future generations' ability to do the same.4 -
@Tacklewasher
Yes, for most crops organic produces lower yields ( but not all, for example organic hay production outstrips conventional). But crop yields alone cannot be used to determine a "winner" in farming techniques.
Organic farming aims to be sustainable whereas conventional farming aims to maximise crop yields. Sustainable agriculture is the production of food, fiber, or other plant or animal products using farming techniques that protect the environment, public health, human communities, and animal welfare. This form of agriculture aims to produce healthful food without compromising future generations' ability to do the same.
anything you didn't copy-paste from the pamphlet?2 -
In new zealand it is very expensive to get an organic certification so I don't bother as I only produce for myself and a small local market once a month.
I'm technically organic aside from fact I use a weed killer. I do notice a difference in my free range eggs to non free range or even commercial free range. My yolks are more yellow and the eggs are bigger and tastier. The big difference is the fact they have grass available to them all day every day and there are only 50 of them.
I don't use sprays as it is less efficient than simply growing plants that do the job for me. Why spray for bugs when you can attract other bugs to take care of the problem. Marigolds are awesome they are my number one go to. But even the pittosporums I have grown for shelter attract useful insects.
I had a couple pigs, they are now in the freezer along side a lot of lamb, I know everyone does not get the luxury of space but it kicks as when you can. We are growing a large amount of pumpkins this year so we don't have to buy pig food, it brings down the cost tenfold. Although with pigs, a few months before butchering it is best to feed the specific things to get a great taste, anyone that has hunted wild bore can contest to that!
Not sure what it's like overseas, but we can hit the mountains and hunt and come back with a pack for of wild meat from thar, shami, deer, pig... can't get more free range than that!3 -
Modern "factory" farming techniques have more than doubled the amount of food produced in the last 50 years, despite the energy and material inputs (seed, fertilizer, water, etc) being almost unchanged over the same time period.
1 -
-
@Tacklewasher
Yes, for most crops organic produces lower yields ( but not all, for example organic hay production outstrips conventional). But crop yields alone cannot be used to determine a "winner" in farming techniques.
Organic farming aims to be sustainable whereas conventional farming aims to maximise crop yields. Sustainable agriculture is the production of food, fiber, or other plant or animal products using farming techniques that protect the environment, public health, human communities, and animal welfare. This form of agriculture aims to produce healthful food without compromising future generations' ability to do the same.
anything you didn't copy-paste from the pamphlet?
None of the above was copy/pasted from the pamphlet I posted.1 -
@meganpettigrew86 I completely agree! NZ vegetables are expensive. In fact foods in general are expensive in NZ. I'm surprised how much of my monthly budget now goes to groceries... It never used to be that much! We've had to work strategically to get it down.
That's essentially why I started growing vegetables here as well. We are getting 3 hens this spring also, which should more than keep us in free range eggs. I don't eat meat but I'm looking forward to getting back to fishing this summer too. It saved me another small fortune last summer and MY GOD is easy to catch fish here lol! Mind you in saying that I'm not bothering to surf cast anymore... using a little inflatable to get out on the deeper quiet water seems to work where I live.
0 -
tiffaninghs wrote: »JustRobby1 wrote: »Or is it mainly just marketing and advertising?
this is really the worst site ever to pose anything health related. you'll get so many ppl ignorant to health.. keep the posts to carbs and calories.. anything else and their heads will explode..
Quite possibly the most ironic post I've seen today.0 -
Modern "factory" farming techniques have more than doubled the amount of food produced in the last 50 years, despite the energy and material inputs (seed, fertilizer, water, etc) being almost unchanged over the same time period.
You are forgetting that organic farming is within those charts along with conventional farming. Organic farming is actually pretty high tech.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.5 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.
even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.
I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.
I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.
I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.
I like grass fed, but it's really common to think grain-finished tastes better (the marbling thing), and no doubt the difference pales in comparison to other differences between quality and cut of beef.
Here's a good article (that basically agrees with your point on omega 3 and talks about some other issues): https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/is-grass-fed-beef-really-better-for-you-the-animal-and-the-planet/2015/02/23/92733524-b6d1-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?utm_term=.65c9a6c67b78
I find a bigger difference with pork, but I think it has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with different breeds that are often common at farms appealing to the market of those who buy local, small farm, organic, etc.
IMO, this kind of pork is often from a fattier breed (grocery store pork tends to be breeds that are bred to be leaner), so probably not "healthier" as that is often discussed, but delicious.0 -
? People are still starving to death even though the world population is 7 billion and we produce enough food to feed 10 billion. Food production is no longer the problem. Access and distribution is.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.
3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.
even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.
I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.
I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.
I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.
I like grass fed, but it's really common to think grain-finished tastes better (the marbling thing), and no doubt the difference pales in comparison to other differences between quality and cut of beef.
Here's a good article (that basically agrees with your point on omega 3 and talks about some other issues): https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/is-grass-fed-beef-really-better-for-you-the-animal-and-the-planet/2015/02/23/92733524-b6d1-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?utm_term=.65c9a6c67b78
I find a bigger difference with pork, but I think it has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with different breeds that are often common at farms appealing to the market of those who buy local, small farm, organic, etc.
IMO, this kind of pork is often from a fattier breed (grocery store pork tends to be breeds that are bred to be leaner), so probably not "healthier" as that is often discussed, but delicious.
I don't think it is the marbling with beef because I rarely eat beef other than tenderloin or occasionally a burger. I have never liked beef fat. The grass fed just has a weird almost rotten taste to me. I've tried it more than once so I don't think what I was eating actually was rotten. Everyone else seemed to like it. If I want red meat I usually go for pork or venison.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.
Was that a big problem 50 years ago?
I mean it's a problem in some areas still, but not so much in the US.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.
even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.
I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.
I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.
I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.
I like grass fed, but it's really common to think grain-finished tastes better (the marbling thing), and no doubt the difference pales in comparison to other differences between quality and cut of beef.
Here's a good article (that basically agrees with your point on omega 3 and talks about some other issues): https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/is-grass-fed-beef-really-better-for-you-the-animal-and-the-planet/2015/02/23/92733524-b6d1-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?utm_term=.65c9a6c67b78
I find a bigger difference with pork, but I think it has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with different breeds that are often common at farms appealing to the market of those who buy local, small farm, organic, etc.
IMO, this kind of pork is often from a fattier breed (grocery store pork tends to be breeds that are bred to be leaner), so probably not "healthier" as that is often discussed, but delicious.
I don't think it is the marbling with beef because I rarely eat beef other than tenderloin or occasionally a burger. I have never liked beef fat. The grass fed just has a weird almost rotten taste to me. I've tried it more than once so I don't think what I was eating actually was rotten. Everyone else seemed to like it. If I want red meat I usually go for pork or venison.
Hmm. I haven't noticed anything off about grass fed (unsurprising in that I said I like it and usually get it), but tastes are obviously different.
(I also love cilantro.) ;-)0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »I am not an expert and have no desire to hash anything out. I just wanted to throw out a perspective. I went to a cont Ed course a few years ago and the speaker said that our food is not the same as it was a few generations ago. She gave example of beef. Cows are meant to eat grass. They get certain nutrients from it. When they are fed on corn they are missing some of nutrients they need. When we eat beef missing those nutrients we are missing nutrients as well. Made sense to me. I recently had the opportunity to purchase a half a cow that was grass fed/finished - wow! You can taste the difference.
even bad cuts of grass fed beef put good cuts of grain-fed beef to shame. I buy these super lean, cheap, sirloin cuts (just had one for dinner 5 minutes ago actually) from my butcher, and they're better than the best new york strip I ever got from the grocery store. Night and day.
I fully FULLY agree with you. Organic free range chickens / pork and grass fed beef is where its at. Ditto for the fish, wild cought over anything farmed. Both taste and texture are just too good.
I haven't been able to tell a difference with chicken or pork, and I don't eat much fish. But it makes sense. I was just completely blown away by the obvious difference in beef products.
I think corn finished beef tastes better than grass fed. I'll pay extra for grass fed butter but not beef. Luckily, beef is one of my least favorite meats anyway so we eat very little.
I like grass fed, but it's really common to think grain-finished tastes better (the marbling thing), and no doubt the difference pales in comparison to other differences between quality and cut of beef.
Here's a good article (that basically agrees with your point on omega 3 and talks about some other issues): https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/is-grass-fed-beef-really-better-for-you-the-animal-and-the-planet/2015/02/23/92733524-b6d1-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html?utm_term=.65c9a6c67b78
I find a bigger difference with pork, but I think it has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with different breeds that are often common at farms appealing to the market of those who buy local, small farm, organic, etc.
IMO, this kind of pork is often from a fattier breed (grocery store pork tends to be breeds that are bred to be leaner), so probably not "healthier" as that is often discussed, but delicious.
I don't think it is the marbling with beef because I rarely eat beef other than tenderloin or occasionally a burger. I have never liked beef fat. The grass fed just has a weird almost rotten taste to me. I've tried it more than once so I don't think what I was eating actually was rotten. Everyone else seemed to like it. If I want red meat I usually go for pork or venison.
Grass-fed took off after I went vegan, so I have never had it but my husband hates the taste of it and describes it similarly to how you do.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.
Um, people are starving to death today.2 -
This content has been removed.
-
NorthCascades wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.
Um, people are starving to death today.
What are you doing about it?
I hate when people use this to argue why you shouldn't leave food on your plate, are you going to mail your food scraps overseas?
Go give to a charity or food to a homeless person.
0 -
This content has been removed.
-
suzannesimmons3 wrote: »meganpettigrew86 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.
Um, people are starving to death today.
What are you doing about it?
I hate when people use this to argue why you shouldn't leave food on your plate, are you going to mail your food scraps overseas?
Go give to a charity or food to a homeless person.
How do you know they don't?
I asked what are you doing about it, it's a question, yes insinuating they do nothing but open to be proven otherwise.0 -
meganpettigrew86 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.
Um, people are starving to death today.
What are you doing about it?
I hate when people use this to argue why you shouldn't leave food on your plate, are you going to mail your food scraps overseas?
Go give to a charity or food to a homeless person.
That's not what this post was about.2 -
meganpettigrew86 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.
Um, people are starving to death today.
What are you doing about it?
I hate when people use this to argue why you shouldn't leave food on your plate, are you going to mail your food scraps overseas?
Go give to a charity or food to a homeless person.
Is this going to turn into some kind of virtue signalling competition?4 -
Modern food insecurity is an issue of poverty and ability to afford food that is available, not food scarcity. "Organic" farming does absolutely nothing about either of those, and in fact exacerbates both by making food both more expensive to produce AND more scarce.
Using the environment, sustainability, or even climate change to justify buying organic food is silly nonsense.
If you wanna buy organic food because you can afford it, and you think it tastes better, more power too you. But those are the beginning and end of the reasons to buy it. there's nothing "progressive" about the organic food industry.4 -
Modern food insecurity is an issue of poverty and ability to afford food that is available, not food scarcity. "Organic" farming does absolutely nothing about either of those, and in fact exacerbates both by making food both more expensive to produce AND more scarce.
Using the environment, sustainability, or even climate change to justify buying organic food is silly nonsense.
If you wanna buy organic food because you can afford it, and you think it tastes better, more power too you. But those are the beginning and end of the reasons to buy it. there's nothing "progressive" about the organic food industry.
I can buy organic for any reason I choose. What are you gonna do about it?2 -
meganpettigrew86 wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »meganpettigrew86 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
yeah, it was much better when people were starving to death.
Um, people are starving to death today.
What are you doing about it?
I hate when people use this to argue why you shouldn't leave food on your plate, are you going to mail your food scraps overseas?
Go give to a charity or food to a homeless person.
How do you know they don't?
I asked what are you doing about it, it's a question, yes insinuating they do nothing but open to be proven otherwise.
It's an irrelevant question. The statements we've made about people starving today were response to a post that stated that "it was better when people were starving to death" ( intended with sarcasm). I know my response was merely to state that starvation is not a problem we've overcome and is firmly in the past, but still exists today. There is no need for anyone to prove they're doing anything about a fact they post.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions