Fasting & muscle gain/loss
jordan_bowden
Posts: 90 Member
A few weeks ago, I joined gym again. This time, I decided to challenge myself and face my gym phobia of using machines/weights and that everyone was watching me.
I've been IF for about a year now and do 16:8 with 5:2 however sometimes I do extended fasts.
I'm starting to notice that my glutes in particular are getting smaller, even though I'm targeting them.
When you lose muscle mass from fasting, surely it would be evenly distributed on the body, rather than from one specific area?
Could I still maintain/lean out if I upped my calories but still fasted the same ?
I've been IF for about a year now and do 16:8 with 5:2 however sometimes I do extended fasts.
I'm starting to notice that my glutes in particular are getting smaller, even though I'm targeting them.
When you lose muscle mass from fasting, surely it would be evenly distributed on the body, rather than from one specific area?
Could I still maintain/lean out if I upped my calories but still fasted the same ?
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Replies
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are you eating at maintenance?1
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If you are leaning out and carry fat on the glutes, it is normal for them to get smaller. However, if you think you are losing muscle in that area, then ya, that is not good. I am not sure how fasting would affect that unless you happen to be undereating overall.
Have you been eating in a deficit? How fast are you losing? How lean are you already? If you are already very lean and have a lower bodyfat%, then it is possible you will lose some muscle unfortunately.
What are your goals?0 -
Your diary shows very very low calorie intakes. Hoping your diary entries are just not completed.
Targeting the glutes if you are eating under maintenance will cause you lose fat and some muscle particularly if the deficit is a little on the aggressive side and perhaps your protein intake is not ample enough to support your calories/lifting/exercise regime.
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jordan_bowden wrote: »When you lose muscle mass from fasting, surely it would be evenly distributed on the body, rather than from one specific area?
When you lose muscle mass from fasting, you are catabolizing it so your body can use it for fuel. It is gone. It is not going to show up somewhere else on your body. You need to eat at a surplus to build muscle.0 -
Your diary shows very very low calorie intakes. Hoping your diary entries are just not completed.
Targeting the glutes if you are eating under maintenance will cause you lose fat and some muscle particularly if the deficit is a little on the aggressive side and perhaps your protein intake is not ample enough to support your calories/lifting/exercise regime.
I log everything I eat into my diary, and I do weigh my food so I know it's not an over/under estimation.
I am vegan, and really battle to eat a lot of food - even calorie dense foods that are clean. I aim for about 30% protein which is more than enough for my height and age x0 -
You are very thin in your picture. Are you sure you are eating enough? If unsure, is there a professional you trust?3
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jordan_bowden wrote: »Your diary shows very very low calorie intakes. Hoping your diary entries are just not completed.
Targeting the glutes if you are eating under maintenance will cause you lose fat and some muscle particularly if the deficit is a little on the aggressive side and perhaps your protein intake is not ample enough to support your calories/lifting/exercise regime.
I log everything I eat into my diary, and I do weigh my food so I know it's not an over/under estimation.
I am vegan, and really battle to eat a lot of food - even calorie dense foods that are clean. I aim for about 30% protein which is more than enough for my height and age x
yesterday you ate 787 cals, the day before 500 odd... if that's what you're eating then no wonder you're losing muscle.9 -
If you are leaning out and carry fat on the glutes, it is normal for them to get smaller. However, if you think you are losing muscle in that area, then ya, that is not good. I am not sure how fasting would affect that unless you happen to be undereating overall.
Have you been eating in a deficit? How fast are you losing? How lean are you already? If you are already very lean and have a lower bodyfat%, then it is possible you will lose some muscle unfortunately.
What are your goals?
I have tried eating at a deficit and gradually lowering but I never saw any results. The only time I lose is when I eat below 500 calories and I find really unsustainable.
My goals are to grow the glutes and lean out everywhere else. I don't know what my body fat percentage is, unfortunately.2 -
jordan_bowden wrote: »Your diary shows very very low calorie intakes. Hoping your diary entries are just not completed.
Targeting the glutes if you are eating under maintenance will cause you lose fat and some muscle particularly if the deficit is a little on the aggressive side and perhaps your protein intake is not ample enough to support your calories/lifting/exercise regime.
I log everything I eat into my diary, and I do weigh my food so I know it's not an over/under estimation.
I am vegan, and really battle to eat a lot of food - even calorie dense foods that are clean. I aim for about 30% protein which is more than enough for my height and age x
I can see why you are losing muscle and fat. Girl you need to eat some food!4 -
If your logging is accurate then you are in no way eating enough protein to build or sustain your muscles, most days you are well under 50 grams of protein. One day I saw 15 grams of protein, you gotta up that. Not to mention your calories are very low as well. You can't run a car without fuel. I would focus on protein. This is a good guy to read, here is an article that might shed some light. http://physiqonomics.com/muscle-strength-loss-diet/2
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jordan_bowden wrote: »If you are leaning out and carry fat on the glutes, it is normal for them to get smaller. However, if you think you are losing muscle in that area, then ya, that is not good. I am not sure how fasting would affect that unless you happen to be undereating overall.
Have you been eating in a deficit? How fast are you losing? How lean are you already? If you are already very lean and have a lower bodyfat%, then it is possible you will lose some muscle unfortunately.
What are your goals?
I have tried eating at a deficit and gradually lowering but I never saw any results. The only time I lose is when I eat below 500 calories and I find really unsustainable.
My goals are to grow the glutes and lean out everywhere else. I don't know what my body fat percentage is, unfortunately.
If that is your goal you need to eat at maintenance at least and lift with a progressive program (ideally with focus on the glutes). Growing glutes in a deficit especially if you are already very lean is just gonna be spinning your wheels.
What are your stats and bodyfat%? I think if you are already very lean you would probably benefit from gaining weight as recomp works best if you have more fat to start. If you don't have a sufficient muscle base you will likely not be happy with the results as you cut lower and lower.
You really need to fuel your body though.6 -
Setting aside the red flags, fasting can make it harder to gauge progress as normal swings in scale weight can be greater than for people who eat more consistently. I'm not saying it's harder to make progress, I'm saying it harder to measure that progress. Trend weight apps can be VERY helpful in this case, but you ABSOLUTELY HAVE to be emotionally detached from the number on the scale.
And yes, 500 cals per day is not and should not be sustainable.5 -
It's not the eating patterns that's the problem - it's the lack of food overall.6
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If your lifts are going up you are not losing muscle, you are losing fat.5
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BigNorthernBear wrote: »If your lifts are going up you are not losing muscle, you are losing fat.
If her lifts are going up, especially as a new lifter who's humongously underfeeding herself, it's neuromuscular adaptation. She's not doing anything beneficial for her strength or her body on a diet like that.9 -
I hope OP is still reading, even if she's not replying any more.3
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If calories are too low muscle loss is inevitable regardless of what work you think you are doing to build and maintain it. The body will use what it has for fuel0
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BigNorthernBear wrote: »If your lifts are going up you are not losing muscle, you are losing fat.
If her lifts are going up, especially as a new lifter who's humongously underfeeding herself, it's neuromuscular adaptation. She's not doing anything beneficial for her strength or her body on a diet like that.
If she is humongously underfeeding the newby gains will vanish quite quickly, yes its neural, but an underfed nervous system does not adapt and becomes fatigued in no time. This will rapidly show in lack of motivation, listlessness, craving sleeping in etc..
And judging by her picture she doesnt need to worry about weight loss she should be eating BMR + exercise calories plus a little extra.1 -
jordan_bowden wrote: »Your diary shows very very low calorie intakes. Hoping your diary entries are just not completed.
Targeting the glutes if you are eating under maintenance will cause you lose fat and some muscle particularly if the deficit is a little on the aggressive side and perhaps your protein intake is not ample enough to support your calories/lifting/exercise regime.
I log everything I eat into my diary, and I do weigh my food so I know it's not an over/under estimation.
I am vegan, and really battle to eat a lot of food - even calorie dense foods that are clean. I aim for about 30% protein which is more than enough for my height and age x
To even consider keeping what muscle you have, before you even think about gaining any, you need to be eating sufficient protein, and not having a massive deficit. If you struggle to eat enough food, perhaps consider stopping the IF and fasting thing.... At least then you'd have more opportunity to fuel your body properly.
30% protein might be fine if you were eating enough calories, but as others have pointed out, it seems your calorie intake is way too low.1 -
jordan_bowden wrote: »If you are leaning out and carry fat on the glutes, it is normal for them to get smaller. However, if you think you are losing muscle in that area, then ya, that is not good. I am not sure how fasting would affect that unless you happen to be undereating overall.
Have you been eating in a deficit? How fast are you losing? How lean are you already? If you are already very lean and have a lower bodyfat%, then it is possible you will lose some muscle unfortunately.
What are your goals?
I have tried eating at a deficit and gradually lowering but I never saw any results. The only time I lose is when I eat below 500 calories and I find really unsustainable.
My goals are to grow the glutes and lean out everywhere else. I don't know what my body fat percentage is, unfortunately.
You need to eat more, and if you can't you need to see a doctor. You look to already be quite thin, you are undereating, and you are eating dangerously low protein and fat. If your diary is correct, you are harming yourself.
When you eat (or fast) does not directly affect weight loss. Your problem is how little you are eating. I hope your logging is inaccurate, but if not, please see a doctor and print your food log to bring with you.2 -
jordan_bowden wrote: »If you are leaning out and carry fat on the glutes, it is normal for them to get smaller. However, if you think you are losing muscle in that area, then ya, that is not good. I am not sure how fasting would affect that unless you happen to be undereating overall.
Have you been eating in a deficit? How fast are you losing? How lean are you already? If you are already very lean and have a lower bodyfat%, then it is possible you will lose some muscle unfortunately.
What are your goals?
I have tried eating at a deficit and gradually lowering but I never saw any results. The only time I lose is when I eat below 500 calories and I find really unsustainable.
My goals are to grow the glutes and lean out everywhere else. I don't know what my body fat percentage is, unfortunately.
Why are you even trying to eat at a deficit since in an earlier post you say you struggle to eat enough food. Please see a doctor about your eating habits.5 -
Thank you for all your advice, I know that I need to eat more and am trying to work on it! I do not think I need to see anybody, as I am perfectly sound minded and nowhere near being underweight or anything like that.
Really appreciate all the input xx3 -
Just for average muscle maintenance, you need 1 gram per kilo, more if you are doing gym work. You are in a catabolic state, for lack of calories and by definition energy. Your body won't care, about building or maintaining muscle when is starving.0
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jordan_bowden wrote: »Thank you for all your advice, I know that I need to eat more and am trying to work on it! I do not think I need to see anybody, as I am perfectly sound minded and nowhere near being underweight or anything like that.
Really appreciate all the input xx
is there a reason you choose to fast?1 -
jordan_bowden wrote: »Thank you for all your advice, I know that I need to eat more and am trying to work on it! I do not think I need to see anybody, as I am perfectly sound minded and nowhere near being underweight or anything like that.
Really appreciate all the input xx
given that you have had this problem since February at least, i think you really do need to get some help before you do yourself some serious damage.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/38960709#Comment_389607097 -
16:8 and 5:2 have nothing to do with muscle loss. IF is designed to eat your calories within a Time window, not starve yourself.5
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Between the two types of fasting and eating vegan.. if your way of eating is causing unhealthy eating habits, you need to rethink how you are doing things before you cause some serious damage to your body (if not already). Maybe try extending your eating window or not fast at all. If you have been having this problem for months now, I do agree it is time to talk to someone. If you don't change what you are doing you will cause problems for yourself, not to mention you won't be making any progress and will likely be in the same place you are now months and even years from now.5
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OP -
So... I don't know you at all. I don't know what you're good at and I don't know where you struggle. I don't know what your real goals are, or if you even know what they are. I don't know what your triggers are, what you respond well to, or what sends you into a tailspin, so I apologize if I'm overstepping. But speaking very generally....
Recovering from poor habits, and especially poor relationships with food, can be hard. REALLY hard. It's hard mentally. It's hard emotionally. And it's hard pragmatically. Sometimes success is trading a really bad habit for a slightly less bad habit... at least it is for me.
From your post, it seems like you've got a lot going on. You're vegan. You fast. You IF. You're trying to get into lifting. You're hoping to grow your glutes. You're hoping to drop weight/fat/lean out/I'm not exactly sure. That's a lot.
IMO, I'd take a couple of days and really think about your goals. Then prioritize them. Pick 1 or 2 as the most important, then put look at the rest as tertiary. Then, once you have some focus, I'd work on building good habits that contribute to those goals, that set you up for success, that put you in a good place mentally to work towards those goals. If you need help figuring out the best ways to grow your glutes or to lean out or to stick to cals or whatever else, certainly ask -- there are some really helpful, really knowledgable people here. But ultimately, it sounds to me like you need to take a step back, see the bigger picture, and get a bit of focus.
Just my $.02. Take it for what it's worth.5 -
TavistockToad wrote: »jordan_bowden wrote: »Thank you for all your advice, I know that I need to eat more and am trying to work on it! I do not think I need to see anybody, as I am perfectly sound minded and nowhere near being underweight or anything like that.
Really appreciate all the input xx
is there a reason you choose to fast?
I used to fast without even realizing it and then one day I heard of IF did more research about it. I have it a shot and I find I feel way more energetic in a prolonged fasted state
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OP -
So... I don't know you at all. I don't know what you're good at and I don't know where you struggle. I don't know what your real goals are, or if you even know what they are. I don't know what your triggers are, what you respond well to, or what sends you into a tailspin, so I apologize if I'm overstepping. But speaking very generally....
Recovering from poor habits, and especially poor relationships with food, can be hard. REALLY hard. It's hard mentally. It's hard emotionally. And it's hard pragmatically. Sometimes success is trading a really bad habit for a slightly less bad habit... at least it is for me.
From your post, it seems like you've got a lot going on. You're vegan. You fast. You IF. You're trying to get into lifting. You're hoping to grow your glutes. You're hoping to drop weight/fat/lean out/I'm not exactly sure. That's a lot.
IMO, I'd take a couple of days and really think about your goals. Then prioritize them. Pick 1 or 2 as the most important, then put look at the rest as tertiary. Then, once you have some focus, I'd work on building good habits that contribute to those goals, that set you up for success, that put you in a good place mentally to work towards those goals. If you need help figuring out the best ways to grow your glutes or to lean out or to stick to cals or whatever else, certainly ask -- there are some really helpful, really knowledgable people here. But ultimately, it sounds to me like you need to take a step back, see the bigger picture, and get a bit of focus.
Just my $.02. Take it for what it's worth.
I guess I never really looked at things from that perspective. I tend to challenge myself and if I enjoy it, I will stick to it. I never thought it was too much but I am sure I could re-evaluate everything altogether.
Thanks again, for all your input everybody it is so appreciated! Definitely got a long way to go 1
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