Protein is a pain in the *kitten*

30% on that amount of calories is not much of a stretch. A pound of chicken (2 servings of 8 ounces each) is 100 grams. Add in some yogurt, eggs, jerky, and maybe a protein shake and you're golden. I hit 165 grams on Sundays with 1700 calories. I also have higher fat on Sunday, so hamburgers or steaks fits well.

marcusarand wrote: »

Upon the advice of my personal trainer I'm at 30% protein on a 2500 calorie diet. Comes out to 188g according to this handy app.
You can read 10 different articles and get 10 completely different recommendations as to how much protein to consume. I'm not dying when I don't hit the goal that's been set for me. It's mostly just the fact that someone programmed this app to tell me how much protein to eat and if I'm going to do it then I should do it "right". That's maybe not the right way to be looking at it. I dunno.

Protein requirements are based on a range of lean body mass. The amount you needs depends on a variety of factors (such as leanness, activity level, etc..), but unless you are jacked, you probably don't need 180g. The range is 1.5-2.2g/kg of body weight.

usmcmp wrote: »

How much protein are you trying to eat daily? If it's really that difficult for you to hit your goal maybe it's too high. The general suggestion is .8 to 1.0 grams of protein per pound of lean body mass. If you want to eat more than that knock yourself out, but eating a bit lower than that is still not detrimental.

People losing weight (at risk of losing muscle) and adults over the age of 50 would seem to benefit from a much higher protein intake than the RDA. I keep seeing advice on MFP that high protein recommendations (anything where a person’s goals are higher than RDA) are just bro-science but never any back up to that claim. (Would really like to find out sources that back up the low RDA amount b/c I personally am not happy having to reach my protein goals, would be happier eating the low RDA amount).

My research ( weight loss and adult over 50) comes up with at least 2x RDA for older adults. Unfortunately that is about 40% of my weight loss calorie allowance.

Protein

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/articles/2015/02/13/older-adults-double-your-protein-intake-for-better-health?context=amp

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170523095019.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-blog/seniors-beef-it-up-to-prevent-muscle-loss/bgp-20136508

http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/040715p16.shtml

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/daily-protein-needs-seniors-still-unsettled-201406117208

ryenday wrote: »

People losing weight (at risk of losing muscle) and adults over the age of 50 would seem to benefit from a much higher protein intake than the RDA. I keep seeing advice on MFP that high protein recommendations (anything where a person’s goals are higher than RDA) are just bro-science but never any back up to that claim. (Would really like to find out sources that back up the low RDA amount b/c I personally am not happy having to reach my protein goals, would be happier eating the low RDA amount).

My research ( weight loss and adult over 50) comes up with at least 2x RDA for older adults. Unfortunately that is about 40% of my weight loss calorie allowance.

2x the RDA for non-pregnant, non-breastfeeding women would be 92 grams. 40% of 1200 would be 120 grams. What's your calorie allowance?

Here's the WHO report on protein needs if you want to see the science behind "the RDA is adequate protein for 98% of everybody" comments. Pages 114-115 discuss the protein needs of the elderly.

This PubMed article recommends at least 1.0 grams per kilogram of body weight for older adults. "Body weight" means ideal weight when discussing protein since excess body fat does not need to be supplied with protein.

This American Journal of Clinical Nutrition article discusses a study where they find that protein needs for healthy older adults isn't statistically different from the RDA.

ETA: There's a difference between adequate and optimal protein intake. The RDA for adequate is 0.8 g/kg for non-pregnant, non-breastfeeding adults. The most common recommendation for optimal protein intake in the MFP forums that I see posted is generally around 0.8 g/pound of lean body mass (note the different unit) or about 1 g/pound of goal weight.

ryenday wrote: »

seska422 wrote: »

ryenday wrote: »

People losing weight (at risk of losing muscle) and adults over the age of 50 would seem to benefit from a much higher protein intake than the RDA. I keep seeing advice on MFP that high protein recommendations (anything where a person’s goals are higher than RDA) are just bro-science but never any back up to that claim. (Would really like to find out sources that back up the low RDA amount b/c I personally am not happy having to reach my protein goals, would be happier eating the low RDA amount).

My research ( weight loss and adult over 50) comes up with at least 2x RDA for older adults. Unfortunately that is about 40% of my weight loss calorie allowance.

2x the RDA for non-pregnant, non-breastfeeding women would be 92 grams. 40% of 1200 would be 120 grams. What's your calorie allowance?

Here's the WHO report on protein needs if you want to see the science behind "the RDA is adequate protein for 98% of everybody" comments. Pages 114-115 discuss the protein needs of the elderly.

This PubMed article recommends at least 1.0 grams per kilogram of body weight for older adults. "Body weight" means ideal weight when discussing protein since excess body fat does not need to be supplied with protein.

This American Journal of Clinical Nutrition article discusses a study where they find that protein needs for healthy older adults isn't statistically different from the RDA.

ETA: There's a difference between adequate and optimal protein intake. The RDA for adequate is 0.8 g/kg for non-pregnant, non-breastfeeding adults. The most common recommendation for optimal protein intake in the MFP forums that I see posted is generally around 0.8 g/pound of lean body mass (note the different unit) or about 1 g/pound of goal weight.

Thanks for those links, since I can not know my lean mass, and 1g / pound goal weight is close to the 2x RDA amount therefore I am hopeful I’m getting a good amount, but sad to see it is still ridiculously high percentage. Yes, my calorie allowance for weight loss is 1200. Currently on maintenance at 1450 so protein is slightly less onerous at the moment - but will be going back to 1200 soon ( on a break.)

The RDA is adequate and "optimal" isn't that optimal for you if it doesn't work comfortably with your way of eating. Why not experiment and find an amount between those two extremes? I like to aim for ~70-80 grams of protein per day no matter where my calorie intake is set.

MFP used to have a default of 15% of calories from protein and bumped it up to 20% because some studies were showing that a bit more protein might be helpful when losing weight. 20% of 1200 calories is 60 grams of protein per day, which is 1.3 times the RDA.

ryenday wrote: »

seska422 wrote: »

ryenday wrote: »

People losing weight (at risk of losing muscle) and adults over the age of 50 would seem to benefit from a much higher protein intake than the RDA. I keep seeing advice on MFP that high protein recommendations (anything where a person’s goals are higher than RDA) are just bro-science but never any back up to that claim. (Would really like to find out sources that back up the low RDA amount b/c I personally am not happy having to reach my protein goals, would be happier eating the low RDA amount).

My research ( weight loss and adult over 50) comes up with at least 2x RDA for older adults. Unfortunately that is about 40% of my weight loss calorie allowance.

2x the RDA for non-pregnant, non-breastfeeding women would be 92 grams. 40% of 1200 would be 120 grams. What's your calorie allowance?

Also confused where you got 92 g. The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for protein is a modest 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. I guess a 115ish pound woman? Lol not me then. Ah well, got my hopes up that I could lower my protein intake.

Excess body fat doesn't need to be provided with protein so, even though they say body weight, they mean ideal body weight. That's why people say to look at your lean body mass when deciding how much protein you need. 46 grams is the RDA amount for adult non-pregnant, non-lactating, "ideal" height women. Taller and shorter women can use the middle normal BMI-weight for their height and the 0.8 g/kg multiplier to tweak that number but it's still in the 46-gram neighborhood. The RDA Dietary Reference Intakes: Macronutrients says that "RDAs and AIs may both be used as goals for individual intake."

ryenday wrote: »

seska422 wrote: »

ryenday wrote: »

People losing weight (at risk of losing muscle) and adults over the age of 50 would seem to benefit from a much higher protein intake than the RDA. I keep seeing advice on MFP that high protein recommendations (anything where a person’s goals are higher than RDA) are just bro-science but never any back up to that claim. (Would really like to find out sources that back up the low RDA amount b/c I personally am not happy having to reach my protein goals, would be happier eating the low RDA amount).

My research ( weight loss and adult over 50) comes up with at least 2x RDA for older adults. Unfortunately that is about 40% of my weight loss calorie allowance.

2x the RDA for non-pregnant, non-breastfeeding women would be 92 grams. 40% of 1200 would be 120 grams. What's your calorie allowance?

Here's the WHO report on protein needs if you want to see the science behind "the RDA is adequate protein for 98% of everybody" comments. Pages 114-115 discuss the protein needs of the elderly.

This PubMed article recommends at least 1.0 grams per kilogram of body weight for older adults. "Body weight" means ideal weight when discussing protein since excess body fat does not need to be supplied with protein.

This American Journal of Clinical Nutrition article discusses a study where they find that protein needs for healthy older adults isn't statistically different from the RDA.

ETA: There's a difference between adequate and optimal protein intake. The RDA for adequate is 0.8 g/kg for non-pregnant, non-breastfeeding adults. The most common recommendation for optimal protein intake in the MFP forums that I see posted is generally around 0.8 g/pound of lean body mass (note the different unit) or about 1 g/pound of goal weight.

Thanks for those links, since I can not know my lean mass, and 1g / pound goal weight is close to the 2x RDA amount ( 61 g for a 170 lb woman)) - therefore I am hopeful I’m getting a good amount, but sad to see it is still ridiculously high percentage. Yes, my calorie allowance for weight loss is 1200. Currently on maintenance at 1450 so protein is slightly less onerous at the moment - but will be going back to 1200 soon ( on a break.)

What I see normally is .6-.8 (or .65-.85) g/lb of a healthy goal weight or .8-1 g/lb of lean mass.

My weight (healthy and not far from my eventual goal of 118-120 or so) is 125, so for me that comes to 81-106 g (based on .65-.85 g/lb). Since I am concerned about muscle loss when at a deficit, I err on the high side (100), which happens to be pretty easy for me and helps with satiety anyway. I would be okay with a bit lower if it were hard for me.

I do have a good LBM estimate from a DEXA, which is 95, so that falls within the range from the other estimate.

At 1200 calories (which I don't do these days), 100 g would be about 33% -- I think I'd probably go with 30% (90 g) and just try to hit or exceed it.

I think 1 lb/g (even of goal weight) is generally well more than anyone needs unless it makes a big difference to satiety.

Here's a pretty reliable site with some studies: https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/

ryenday wrote: »

Yeah, I still see the RDA is .8g protein per kilogram weight. It does suggest obese persons should prob use something other then Bodyweight. I’m not obese, merely overweight. I am over 50. The links I provided say I should probably be 2x RDA and I don’t see anywhere the RDA is based on lean weight or ideal weight.
I’ll read further in the https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/ link, but quickly it looked to say exactly what I’m saying?

The difference is is the RDA calculated off of Bodyweight or off ideal weight. It seems to me everywhere I can find it says body weight - so 120+ G protein for me. When I’m at goal weight, yeah, my protein requirements will be less.

Protein is required to maintain our lean body mass. (That's why recommendations are often - and most precisely/accurately - phrased in terms of LBM. But many of us don't know our LBM. Therefore, the recommendations in terms of body weight are essentially the same recommendations, adjusted via a bit of arithmetic mumbo-jumbo to include an assumption about average body fat percentage.)

But our fat mass doesn't require extra protein to maintain it - just calories. Therefore, we use "healthy goal weight" with the grams-per-bodyweight figures as the basis for calculating protein needs when we're still overweight. Overweight people don't need more protein. People losing weight arguably do, but that's (IMO) already built into the 0.6-0.8g (per pound of healthy goal weight) you often see here.

Obviously, this is a huge subject of debate; this is my understanding/opinion.