sugar my problem
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Food labels are not the same in every country. Where I live I can see the sugar content of a product but it doesn't tell me if it is natural sugar like lactose in dairy or added sugar (fructose). Which makes it very difficult for me to make an informed decision.
We have very common popular "healthy" brands of yoghurt here. But when you really look into it you find that the yoghurt has just as much added sugar as ice cream. Or tomato sauce (ketchup) that has as much sugar as chocolate topping. And the low fat options have heaps more added sugar than full fat options most of the time.
Can you give an example of added sugar in the low fat version of something? With the exception of salad dressing, I haven't found this to be true. It's not true for either the yogurt or the cottage cheese I have in my house right now.2 -
rheddmobile wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »@hale03071
Ohhhhh you said the f word (fructose)...you're going to get it ....j/k
I posted a link to how the body metabolized fructose differently and got it good. Then I backed it up with a few links,all of them saying fruits and vegetables are good,and they went off.
The problem is you cannot claim fructose is all bad and then that fruit is fine in that fruit has fructose. There's no real difference between the types of sugar in table sugar (sucrose breaks down to glucose and fructose) and fruit (mix of fructose, glucose, and sucrose, in various amounts depending on the fruit).
I eat very little added sugar currently, and have cut it out at times (I found it not that hard, perhaps because when I initially did it I didn't also cut carbs overall quite low, or perhaps because I already mostly cooked for myself with whole foods). So anyway, point is I am not saying there's no value to cutting way down on added sugar if you eat a lot or even cutting it out (or cutting out sweets) entirely. What I AM saying is that it's not accurate to say a cookie is different from an apple because of fructose (or anything to do with sugar). The apple, instead, has a little more fiber, different/more nutrients, and the cookie has more calories because of a lot of fat and might be hard not to overeat for many. (Some say they have just as much trouble not overeating the apple, but I bet that's less common).I'm also trying to eliminate foods with added sugars because they're just empty calories.
This is another thing that's just not true (although as I said I've done it, so I don't think it's a bad thing to do). If I add a little sugar to a rhubarb sauce or some brown sugar and apples to steel cut oats, do they cease having nutrients? And there are foods without any sugar at all that add as many calories with no more nutrients (some of which I happily eat, like olive oil, cheese).
But all this aside, if cutting out added sugar works for you, I think that's great. I just will disagree if you make claims that aren't accurate.
This all sounds very nice in theory - thing is, the same amount of sugar in a cookie versus an apple is metabolized very differently - ask any diabetic. The blood glucose meter doesn't lie!
This is actually for an opposite reason than the poster was talking about, I think. My guess is that the problem with cookies for a diabetic is the flour and glucose, not specifically the fructose, which would not be present in a higher amount in the cookie than the apple, probably.
I also suspect the fiber may play a role. But that's not a difference in the sugar, it's the foods.
I am not sure if you actually are responding to what I said, because I pointed out that cookies and apples are, of course, different, but just question that it's about the sugar.
On the fructiose point, as I understand it, fructose tends to be dealt with better by a diabetic than glucose (it doesn't raise blood glucose to the same extent as glucose). Thus, some fruits might be easier to deal with if they are higher fructose fruits vs. table sugar (which is half glucose). Similarly, some carbs that are not being discussed in this thread (not sugar) can turn to sugar really fast in the body and cause more problems for a diabetic than something with a little actual sugar in it (a bowl of white rice vs. some ribs with a bit of dry rub containing sugar).
But I don't really see that what you are saying is different from what I was -- I happen to agree with your points for diabetics and have been very clear that although it is not true that there is some "fruit sugar" that is digested completely differently from table sugar, and what it is eaten with (what the table sugar is added to) matters too, that it might be a reasonable choice to cut out or limit table sugar (and also you can do something that others don't think is reasonable).lemurcat12 wrote: »I've a question for all of you who have "cut sugar out" obviously that's not technically correct as you do still eat sugar may in a restricted manner.
When you plan your sugar consumption do you count total grams per day or instead only eat foods with no more than "x" grams of sugar?
I started cutting sugar by only eating foods with less than 3 grams of sugar but during the process I was utterly shocked at how much sugar so many of my favorite foods had. Like balsamic vinegar! And bananas! I became disheartened and gradually stopped following it
So which do you do and what amounts do you limit yourself to?
So you were trying to cut all sugar... not just added? Because anything that is fruit/veggie based will contain sugar.. but it's natural and comes with a lot of other beneficial nutrients. And if those foods, like banana's/balsamic vinegar are some of your favorites, why would you restrict them, especially if they keep you on track.
Heck, the whole reason I would never low carb is because I love fruit way too much and fat doesn't satiate me.
No I wasn't trying to cut all sugar because that would mean you could only eat protein (and the fat it contained) just reduce the amount of sugar intake. Which is why I was asking what limits others who are cutting sugar out use. An old program I was on did the 3gram foods restriction which I realize is quite restricted... But I read somewhere that I can't find again about limiting total daily intake to... (I don't remember exactly) around 20 grams per day total intake which again doesn't take very long to get up to when a serving of banana is 16 grams alone and balsamic vinegar is over 20 per tbs!
That's added sugar (or what the WHO calls "free sugar") -- recommended limit is no more than 10% of calories per day, ideally under 5%. It's about calories and having a nutrient dense diet, not sugar being bad inherently. The 25 g comes from 5% of a 2000 calorie diet (100 calories or 25 g from sugar).
So that wouldn't be a reason to worry about bananas (I also can't imagine using so much vinegar that you would get enough sugar to concern yourself with, I use it pretty freely when LCHFing).
I've never seen anything credible saying one needs to worry about non added sugar, and my only check on those is getting enough protein and fat, a balanced overall diet, and, as now, whatever I might be limiting carbs to. That something is on a website doesn't mean it's backed up by good reason or science.
For the record, balsamic vinegar does make a notable difference in my glucose levels. It's very sugary, especially if it's the good, aged stuff, and it's easy to get a lot of sugar, particularly if you make a balsamic reduction for a sauce. It's not anything a healthy person would need to concern themselves with, but it is definitely important to me as a diabetic needing to control my glucose levels.[/quote]
Interesting, and definitely important for a diabetic. I will add that when I said I wouldn't worry about non added sugar, I meant for healthy people (which the poster I was responding to was talking about -- she was talking about generic advice on a website). I would agree that diabetics might have a reason to, or more specifically to focus on total carbs, balancing carbs, and what carbs have what affect on them (which may have some individual differences). But, as I hope you realize, that is a different topic than this advice on a website that people shouldn't have more than 20 g of total sugar (and then some unremembered total number of total sugar) and thus would need to worry about bananas or vinegar.
I don't believe the comment I was responding to was about diabetics and my response was not. If one is diabetic, it might be different -- and presumably you'd focus on carbs besides sugar too and not merely total sugar grams. Indeed, you said just above that fruit wouldn't be a concern for you.
So again, it seems to me that we are in more agreement than you seem to realize, and you would have some of the same arguments (against a blanket total sugar number regardless of source, with the idea that "fructose" is the real sugar problem) that I raised, in fact. (For the record, balsamic vinegar seems to be a bit more glucose than fructose, but quite close to half and half.)
As an aside, I find the argument that sugars are different because fructose odd, because fructose is in both table sugar AND fruit. Whatever the difference is, it's not the presence of fructose. And again, for diabetics glucose is probably a bigger issue, including some refined starches that convert quickly to glucose.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »@hale03071
Ohhhhh you said the f word (fructose)...you're going to get it ....j/k
I posted a link to how the body metabolized fructose differently and got it good. Then I backed it up with a few links,all of them saying fruits and vegetables are good,and they went off.
The problem is you cannot claim fructose is all bad and then that fruit is fine in that fruit has fructose. There's no real difference between the types of sugar in table sugar (sucrose breaks down to glucose and fructose) and fruit (mix of fructose, glucose, and sucrose, in various amounts depending on the fruit).
I eat very little added sugar currently, and have cut it out at times (I found it not that hard, perhaps because when I initially did it I didn't also cut carbs overall quite low, or perhaps because I already mostly cooked for myself with whole foods). So anyway, point is I am not saying there's no value to cutting way down on added sugar if you eat a lot or even cutting it out (or cutting out sweets) entirely. What I AM saying is that it's not accurate to say a cookie is different from an apple because of fructose (or anything to do with sugar). The apple, instead, has a little more fiber, different/more nutrients, and the cookie has more calories because of a lot of fat and might be hard not to overeat for many. (Some say they have just as much trouble not overeating the apple, but I bet that's less common).I'm also trying to eliminate foods with added sugars because they're just empty calories.
This is another thing that's just not true (although as I said I've done it, so I don't think it's a bad thing to do). If I add a little sugar to a rhubarb sauce or some brown sugar and apples to steel cut oats, do they cease having nutrients? And there are foods without any sugar at all that add as many calories with no more nutrients (some of which I happily eat, like olive oil, cheese).
But all this aside, if cutting out added sugar works for you, I think that's great. I just will disagree if you make claims that aren't accurate.
No where did I ever say fructose is bad...I even typed that in caps
You do not know me...do not tell me what I am or am not TRYING to do
Where did she tell you what you were trying to do? Just reread her post and I couldn't find it.
Heh, pretty sure I avoided that. Thanks for noticing! ;-)1 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »
And btw...people quit cocaine cold turkey also...so being able to quit one or the other isn't proof of anything
Yes, and thankfully there are so many detox centers out there to help people going through their sugar withdrawals.
Seriously, I don't understand how people can think these two are even remotely equivalent.
Are you saying I compared them?
I don't recall doing that either
Being able to quit one or the other isn't proof of which is more addictive which is what I said
I personally have never done cocaine so I wouldn't know
Eta: a quick google I came up with this saying sugar can be more addictive then cocaine
http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2015/01/07/sugar-health-research
Did you look at the actual studies that supposedly support this? I've read a couple. They were dodgy in their methodology and the conclusion that sugar is as addictive as cocaine is such a stretch that even Gumby would break. The summary you posted doesn't even link to these articles.
For the record, I think the sugar is addictive thing is a distraction from the OP's post and the person who introduced the concept (saying it was) was really derailing this thread. I'll probably ignore the topic going forward.
However, I do think this might be helpful, so I will make one comment on the study:
What the study seems to show is that cocaine is less addictive in rats than some drugs are in humans when they are hooked on them. The rats in the study act sensibly, really -- rather than consuming something non nutritive, they prefer actual food (and yes, in the context of the study, the sugar is the better choice, it provides nutrients, just consuming drugs would lead to death).
Humans, when they are far gone into drug addiction will choose drugs over what they need to live -- first higher order things like cleanliness, jobs, family, and then even food. That's real addiction. The rats don't seem to be responding that way to the drugs, good for them. Doesn't say anything about humans and sugar that is especially meaningful.
If someone chose sugar over job, family, etc., then I'd think they had a problem on the order of addiction. If they started consuming sugar over all other foods, then perhaps. I think that's extremely rare in reality.
What seems more the case with humans and sugar is NOT a hijacking of the pleasure feedback so that you don't get pleasure from anything else, including normal things like sex and family and earning a living and eating food. It seems like the appropriate reaction of pleasure to consuming high cal (which the body perceives as high nutrient) food (fat AND sugar) gets somewhat distorted, so too much is consumed. We didn't evolve in most cases to have breaks, so this may be someone one needs to use the brain to avoid, like by putting on external breaks, thinking through and eating meals that are balanced, counting calories, breaking bad eating habits and expanding one's palate if one's palate is too narrow.3 -
I think it is harder to avoid sugar as it is added to everything. Things that are advertised as healthy are loaded with sugar.
It's harder to avoid sugar than cocaine (if one lacks a recent past as a cocaine addict), obviously.
But it is NOT added to everything. It is really quite easy, if one wants, to have a diet built on whole foods, and then nothing is added to things, you add it. Also, there are a huge number of processed foods that have no sugar added -- the main processed foods I use (smoked salmon, dried pasta, dried and canned beans, plain dairy, including cheese, tofu and tempeh, so on).
I think why I found it extremely easy to cut out added sugar is that the above is the base of my diet (whole foods plus the kinds of things I listed) and so added sugar is mostly in sweets and some condiments (and I hate ketchup, so not that one).
I get that if one has a habit of cooking using a lot of things with added sugar it might be different and you'd have to change some of the habits or products purchased, but in that I never used most of those even before I paid much attention to my diet or calories or cared about sugar (I'd freely eat various sweets when available, although I still preferred homemade or a good bakery when we aren't talking ice cream), I just find it puzzling when people claim it's all that hard to avoid sugar or that it's in everything.3 -
Soooo.... I never did get an answer
Are all of these health benefits due to cutting out sugar or can some be attributed to eating a more nutritious diet?0 -
Soooo.... I never did get an answer
Are all of these health benefits due to cutting out sugar or can some be attributed to eating a more nutritious diet?
What matters is what your total diet looks like. Getting adequate protein and fiber are key. Fats help with hormomes and carbs can support energy. Getting a wide range of foods is important to get a variety of nutrients.. and following a diet that helps you lose weight and get more fit is key..
Whether or not you cut sugar is up to you. But when science talks sugar, its not from fruits, veggies or whole grains... its from soda, candy and bake goods (which is also fat).
And when i was tracking i was getting around 130 to 150g per day. I have only gotten more fit and improved all metabolic markers.2 -
Ice cream and cookies are more than sugar.. they are also fat and very hyperpalatable. When I cut weight though, i increase fruit consumption and decrease consumption of deserts. For my deserts, I tend to do fruit with some coolwhip on it.
My go to dessert when I am cutting (actually I like it so much I have it regardless) is 1 cup 2% Fage greek yogurt with 2T Ovaltine. Makes an incredible chocolate "pudding..."0 -
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Ice cream and cookies are more than sugar.. they are also fat and very hyperpalatable. When I cut weight though, i increase fruit consumption and decrease consumption of deserts. For my deserts, I tend to do fruit with some coolwhip on it.
My go to dessert when I am cutting (actually I like it so much I have it regardless) is 1 cup 2% Fage greek yogurt with 2T Ovaltine. Makes an incredible chocolate "pudding..."
My son LOVES Ovaltine. I need to introduce him to your dessert.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Ice cream and cookies are more than sugar.. they are also fat and very hyperpalatable. When I cut weight though, i increase fruit consumption and decrease consumption of deserts. For my deserts, I tend to do fruit with some coolwhip on it.
My go to dessert when I am cutting (actually I like it so much I have it regardless) is 1 cup 2% Fage greek yogurt with 2T Ovaltine. Makes an incredible chocolate "pudding..."
My son LOVES Ovaltine. I need to introduce him to your dessert.
In all honesty I could not believe how good it was...0 -
Jazzyjules71 wrote: »Thanks for comments- I feel horrible right now, caught in a sugar/fatigue cycle and appreciate all your Input!
When you lower insulin levels, by cutting some carbs like sugar, you usually lose water weight and electrolytes along with it. Fatigue, headaches, nausea, brain fog and muscle aches are signs that your sodium is low. A cup or two of salty broth may help, or even a half teaspoon of salt with water. You may need 3000-5000 mg of sodium a day to replace lost electrolytes. There is 2300 mg of sodium in a teaspoon of salt.
Good luck.
That's really interesting. I gave up "added (ie not natural) sugar" for September just to try and curb my crazy sweet tooth. Overall I think it's reduced cravings hugely plus it's easier to keep a check on calories when I don't eat sweet stuff. I have felt all the symptoms you describe though and sweet cravings replaced by salty ones (ready salted crisps etc). Will check sodium levels...0 -
Hi everyone. Interesting discussion. I am beginning a structured sugar detox today after several years of trying half-assed to either cut out or regulate sugar. For whatever it's worth, I've been addicted to cocaine and now sugar and they are both incredibly difficult. I'm not sure it matters which is "harder" and I imagine that is different for everyone.
I am looking for input from others who have gone through it successfully to hear what worked best for them. There is an overwhelming amount of information, most of it product marketing. Most importantly, I see consistent recommendations about having some venue for accountability -- a "sponsor" or group for daily check in. Can anyone recommend anything online for that in the way of a chat group or message board like this? -John2 -
Soooo.... I never did get an answer
Are all of these health benefits due to cutting out sugar or can some be attributed to eating a more nutritious diet?
Sorry...I saw your post but didn't reply because I wasn't claiming any health benefits.
Since July I have be "trying" to eliminate foods with ADDED sugar from my diet. The reason I decided to do that is because my blood pressure was 140/100 and I felt I needed to make a change. In the process of "trying" to eliminate ADDED sugars I've reduced my calories,improved my diet and lost 14 pounds. My blood pressure is now 113/75.
IMO It's a domino effect..."trying" to eliminate ADDED sugars helped me pay better attention to my food choices,lower my caloric intake,lose 14 pounds and all these factors together has lowered my blood pressure.
I evaluated my own diet and realized that I was getting way too much sugar. It seems to be working for me but whether or not it would help anyone else would solely depend on their current diet.
0 -
johno90039 wrote: »Hi everyone. Interesting discussion. I am beginning a structured sugar detox today after several years of trying half-assed to either cut out or regulate sugar. For whatever it's worth, I've been addicted to cocaine and now sugar and they are both incredibly difficult. I'm not sure it matters which is "harder" and I imagine that is different for everyone.
I am looking for input from others who have gone through it successfully to hear what worked best for them. There is an overwhelming amount of information, most of it product marketing. Most importantly, I see consistent recommendations about having some venue for accountability -- a "sponsor" or group for daily check in. Can anyone recommend anything online for that in the way of a chat group or message board like this? -John
The Low Carber Daily MFP group is a good place to go for support when cutting sugars and carbs. Many check in daily and there are always challenges. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group1 -
Soooo.... I never did get an answer
Are all of these health benefits due to cutting out sugar or can some be attributed to eating a more nutritious diet?
Some health benefits can be attributed to just cutting sugar. Others result from a more nutritious diet. I think most dieters that remove sugar will usually replace it with a more nutritious food - most foods are more nutritious than sugar, even if they only facilitate hormones and vitamins like a fat would.1 -
Soooo.... I never did get an answer
Are all of these health benefits due to cutting out sugar or can some be attributed to eating a more nutritious diet?
Some health benefits can be attributed to just cutting sugar. Others result from a more nutritious diet. I think most dieters that remove sugar will usually replace it with a more nutritious food - most foods are more nutritious than sugar, even if they only facilitate hormones and vitamins like a fat would.
And many times, the impetus for cutting out or restricting added sugars is related to weight loss - as a person loses weight due to the calorie reduction, they often experience health benefits simply from losing weight. As has been discussed several times on these threads - just losing the weight, without any dietary changes or specific focus on cutting out a particular food/ingredient - often results in improvement in health markers.
So while cutting back on added sugar and replacing it with more nutrient dense foods is something that would benefit many who are consuming a diet high in added sugar, I don't believe it would have a direct and noticeable impact for people who consume added sugar in moderation as part of an otherwise balanced calorie appropriate diet.2 -
emailmehere1122 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »
And btw...people quit cocaine cold turkey also...so being able to quit one or the other isn't proof of anything
Yes, and thankfully there are so many detox centers out there to help people going through their sugar withdrawals.
Seriously, I don't understand how people can think these two are even remotely equivalent.
Are you saying I compared them?
I don't recall doing that either
Being able to quit one or the other isn't proof of which is more addictive which is what I said
I personally have never done cocaine so I wouldn't know
Eta: a quick google I came up with this saying sugar can be more addictive then cocaine
http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2015/01/07/sugar-health-research
Did you look at the actual studies that supposedly support this? I've read a couple. They were dodgy in their methodology and the conclusion that sugar is as addictive as cocaine is such a stretch that even Gumby would break. The summary you posted doesn't even link to these articles.
No I haven't looked at the studies because I really don't care which is more addictive. That was the first article that came up when I googled
All I said was being able to quit one or the other isn't proof of which is more addictive and I stand by that.... because it isn't proof of anything. Then out of the blue you quoted my statement with a snide remark about detox centers and here we are
Using google and the first search result returned is hardly a reliable method of vetting sources and finding evidence based scientific information...2 -
johno90039 wrote: »Hi everyone. Interesting discussion. I am beginning a structured sugar detox today after several years of trying half-assed to either cut out or regulate sugar. For whatever it's worth, I've been addicted to cocaine and now sugar and they are both incredibly difficult. I'm not sure it matters which is "harder" and I imagine that is different for everyone.
I am looking for input from others who have gone through it successfully to hear what worked best for them. There is an overwhelming amount of information, most of it product marketing. Most importantly, I see consistent recommendations about having some venue for accountability -- a "sponsor" or group for daily check in. Can anyone recommend anything online for that in the way of a chat group or message board like this? -John
I have not done (and don't have a good opinion about) any sugar "detox," but as I said above I certainly have given up added sugar for periods of time, and when I'm keeping carbs around 35 g net, I really have room for so little that I might as well have done so.
If you are low carbing, the low carb forum is a good option. If not, there's probably a no sugar challenge somewhere, there usually is. I didn't do that, however, I just focused on all the interesting things I was eating instead of things with added sugar, and on having a healthy diet overall (that was helpful as I was able to continue that with little change when I started eating added sugar again).1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »emailmehere1122 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »
And btw...people quit cocaine cold turkey also...so being able to quit one or the other isn't proof of anything
Yes, and thankfully there are so many detox centers out there to help people going through their sugar withdrawals.
Seriously, I don't understand how people can think these two are even remotely equivalent.
Are you saying I compared them?
I don't recall doing that either
Being able to quit one or the other isn't proof of which is more addictive which is what I said
I personally have never done cocaine so I wouldn't know
Eta: a quick google I came up with this saying sugar can be more addictive then cocaine
http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2015/01/07/sugar-health-research
Did you look at the actual studies that supposedly support this? I've read a couple. They were dodgy in their methodology and the conclusion that sugar is as addictive as cocaine is such a stretch that even Gumby would break. The summary you posted doesn't even link to these articles.
No I haven't looked at the studies because I really don't care which is more addictive. That was the first article that came up when I googled
All I said was being able to quit one or the other isn't proof of which is more addictive and I stand by that.... because it isn't proof of anything. Then out of the blue you quoted my statement with a snide remark about detox centers and here we are
Using google and the first search result returned is hardly a reliable method of vetting sources and finding evidence based scientific information...
As I clearly stated in the post you quoted I DON'T CARE WHICH IS MORE ADDICTIVE2
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