5k training pace vs race pace help?

One way to figure this out is what Jeff Galloway calls the “magic mile.” Run a mile or two with the amount of effort you would utilize in a race and calculate from there. It’s usually not a good idea to calculate race pace based on training runs alone because of not knowing how your body will react to increased effort and other new factors at race time (adrenaline causing you to speed out too quickly and later crashing). That isn’t to say that in the end the estimation isn’t correct, but I wouldn’t base a goal on it without some form of race effort to base my data off of.

Once you have that data, then yes, most of your training runs should be slower. But no one can tell you for sure what a realistic improvement would be. Some people progress very quickly at running, some do not. As long as you’re seeing some form of improvement, that’s progress. If you’re not after a couple of months, then it’s time to look at your training habits.

Lizzypb88 wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

One way to figure this out is what Jeff Galloway calls the “magic mile.” Run a mile or two with the amount of effort you would utilize in a race and calculate from there. It’s usually not a good idea to calculate race pace based on training runs alone because of not knowing how your body will react to increased effort and other new factors at race time (adrenaline causing you to speed out too quickly and later crashing). That isn’t to say that in the end the estimation isn’t correct, but I wouldn’t base a goal on it without some form of race effort to base my data off of.

Once you have that data, then yes, most of your training runs should be slower. But no one can tell you for sure what a realistic improvement would be. Some people progress very quickly at running, some do not. As long as you’re seeing some form of improvement, that’s progress.

My 5k race average min/mile trying my hardest was 12:24/mile, so I'm trying to figure out how fast I should go when doing normal runs to at least build up my stamina

If you were trying your hardest, then no, your race pace is not to 11:30 yet. So your runs should be around the ~13:30-14:30min/mi range for most your training. Stamina first, speed later.

Lizzypb88 wrote: »

I know I have another question, but I want to ask because it's more simple...
If I train at around 13:15~13:45min/mile running 3.5-4 miles twice a week, is it accurate to say (from what I've read) that your training pace should be 2min per mile SLOWER than your race pace?

I've just answered your other threads, but essentially the logic is sound. If you can establish your forecast race pace, the majority of your training volume should be undertaken more slowly. The proportion depends on your race distance.

The challenge for many runners, myself included, is that the training pace can feel too slow. Getting the training value depends on disciplining oneself to run at that pace. It doesn't hold true that the pace one is comfortable training at points to the preferred race pace, because one might be training too quickly.

It also depends on how much training volume, and how the plan is structured. As an example my forecast 5K time is 20:15. That would need me to be running about 50-60 miles per week, aimed at 5K performance improvement. My actual 5K PB is 24:25, and with most of my training being aimed at marathon and ultra running I'm not doing the type of work that will improve that.

Lizzypb88 wrote: »

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

Lizzypb88 wrote: »

I know I have another question, but I want to ask because it's more simple...
If I train at around 13:15~13:45min/mile running 3.5-4 miles twice a week, is it accurate to say (from what I've read) that your training pace should be 2min per mile SLOWER than your race pace?

I've just answered your other threads, but essentially the logic is sound. If you can establish your forecast race pace, the majority of your training volume should be undertaken more slowly. The proportion depends on your race distance.

The challenge for many runners, myself included, is that the training pace can feel too slow. Getting the training value depends on disciplining oneself to run at that pace. It doesn't hold true that the pace one is comfortable training at points to the preferred race pace, because one might be training too quickly.

It also depends on how much training volume, and how the plan is structured. As an example my forecast 5K time is 20:15. That would need me to be running about 50-60 miles per week, aimed at 5K performance improvement. My actual 5K PB is 24:25, and with most of my training being aimed at marathon and ultra running I'm not doing the type of work that will improve that.

What's a realistic goal then for my next 5k so I don't get ahead of myself? If I run 13min miles comfortably, what's a good goal to hope for in the next couple months with adding a 3rd day a week? What should my race pace actually be?

If you run 13 minute miles comfortably, stick with 13 minute miles for the majority of your training. A common guideline is 80% of your training easy, though different systems disagree on whether it's 80% of the distance or 80% of the time running. Most systems agree that "easy" means you can carry on a conversation while running, without having to gasp for air in the middle of long sentences. If that doesn't describe your 13 minute mile pace, you're still running too fast.

From what you've said about your training, the big deal for you right now is stamina, i.e. ability to last for 5K at a race pace. To improve that you primarily need to run more volume. Others have already commented on how to do that, so I won't rehash that subject.

A reasonable goal? How about running the entire 5K, faster than your training runs? Don't attach a time goal to this one, just a goal to keep running at a pace faster than you usually run. Then if you achieve that goal, you have a baseline 5K race pace to use for planning future training.

The drills you do for speed will help teach your body to run faster, but you must first have the proper base. The best advice I have is to gradually build your distance until you can easily run a 10k. Finish out the year with this and your races and then you can work on speed.

FWIW, since I am trying to really race (not win, I have no shot at that ) I am always 'in pain' at the end of a race. If I have anything left in my tank I didn't give it my best shot.

Good luck.