I'm deciding to end my Vegan journey after 1 year.

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Replies

  • SomebodyWakeUpHIcks
    SomebodyWakeUpHIcks Posts: 3,836 Member
    edited October 2017
    I'm sorry I brought up monkeys. Wasn't trying to bring on a serious biological debate, just trying to irritate @SomebodyWakeUpHIcks by being contrary.
    It's not the monkey debate that irritates me about you. It's your history of movie watching.
  • chrissi_k
    chrissi_k Posts: 175 Member
    chrissi_k wrote: »
    Lavelle, I hardly post (as you can see) in the forum, but as a vegan I would think it a shame for you to giving up a plant based lifestyle (no judging though)
    Have you checked your vitamin d? is your b12 low? B12 is just something you'll have to supplement, it is not bad to do so. And don't forget that even omnivores and vegetarians can have a b12 deficiency.
    If you have any questions you can message me or I can point you in the direction of some awesome groups.

    I hope you'll find whatever works best for you.

    Trust me, I understand that I will upset most vegans. I do supplement with Jarrow B12, also their multi b complex and Garden of Eden Raw multi vitamin (added multi vitamin 2 weeks to see if any improvement)... None helped, and I felt miserable with brain fog. Then I'm thinking. If our ancestors couldn't get B12 from plants then they had to obviously get it from fish or meat. However, they didn't eat meat at a high consumption as we do today. I also understand the ethical reasons as well. I loved the grains but hate the feeling it gave me.

    You have to do what is right for you. Would I prefer that everyone has the same believes as I do, of course, but don't we all?!

    I hope that you'll feel better soon.
  • cee134
    cee134 Posts: 33,762 Member
    ZodFit wrote: »
    Look in the mirror and smile and you'll see two reasons why you should not be vegetarian

    1). Your eyes are in the front of your head. You're a hunter. Plant eating animals have eyes on the side of their heads.

    2). You have canine teeth. Used to bite and tear meat, not plants .



    Monkeys have canines and front eyes and they don't eat meat. Do they?

    Our odontology shows that we actually have a diverse diet. biting, tearing, sheering meat and vegetation.

    Monkeys eat living things if that counts? Much better vision/smell than us humans to hunt.

    Chimpanzees who are wayyyyyy more related to humans do eat meat better comparison.


    I heard oreos are vegan, is this true?

    I'm starting to agree on this as well. I just took a bite from a paleo - frozen chicken meal, 30 mins later, I'm starting to feel energized again. From a logical perspective: we have a sense of taste and we love the way meat and fish taste. It's the reason why dogs do not eat fruit because of the smell and the taste. Why do we have these sense if they do not work for fruits and plants the same. We only use our sense of sight, but then again, there are tons of beautiful berries and plants that will kill us. This too makes me wonder about how we are designed biologically.

    We can smell roast beef from a mile away. I guess my cognitive dissonance is being kicking of what I wanted to be true about veganism. Now I'm questioning the true nature of the human. Maybe it's a balance of life and death, likewise a balance of night & day, and so on.

    Why did I just receive energy after digesting a skinless chicken breast? Maybe both aspects are just as important.

    I'm not saying eat meat and I'm not saying don't eat meat. It seems more likely that is a placebo effect then anything. It's hard for me to believe that, if you were missing anything from not eating meat, that eating one chicken breast would of had that much effect, that soon, on balancing your nutritional levels.

  • Motorsheen
    Motorsheen Posts: 20,459 Member
    chrissi_k wrote: »
    chrissi_k wrote: »
    Lavelle, I hardly post (as you can see) in the forum, but as a vegan I would think it a shame for you to giving up a plant based lifestyle (no judging though)
    Have you checked your vitamin d? is your b12 low? B12 is just something you'll have to supplement, it is not bad to do so. And don't forget that even omnivores and vegetarians can have a b12 deficiency.
    If you have any questions you can message me or I can point you in the direction of some awesome groups.

    I hope you'll find whatever works best for you.

    Trust me, I understand that I will upset most vegans. I do supplement with Jarrow B12, also their multi b complex and Garden of Eden Raw multi vitamin (added multi vitamin 2 weeks to see if any improvement)... None helped, and I felt miserable with brain fog. Then I'm thinking. If our ancestors couldn't get B12 from plants then they had to obviously get it from fish or meat. However, they didn't eat meat at a high consumption as we do today. I also understand the ethical reasons as well. I loved the grains but hate the feeling it gave me.

    You have to do what is right for you. Would I prefer that everyone has the same believes as I do, of course, but don't we all?!

    I hope that you'll feel better soon.

    So, you're a vegan?

    2 quick questions:

    1 why?
    2 Is it difficult?

    no judging (promise) / just curious
  • chrissi_k
    chrissi_k Posts: 175 Member
    Look in the mirror and smile and you'll see two reasons why you should not be vegetarian

    1). Your eyes are in the front of your head. You're a hunter. Plant eating animals have eyes on the side of their heads.

    2). You have canine teeth. Used to bite and tear meat, not plants .



    Humans are plant eating animals. The fact that we eat meat doesn't change the fact that we eat plants.

    I always think of this picture when someone says humans have canine teeth used to tear meat. I honestly couldn't chase a cow and then rip it apart with my teeth.




  • Lavelle1980
    Lavelle1980 Posts: 374 Member
    Well, one of the benefits of meta-cognition is that we don't have to act like our evolutionary ancestors and cousins.

    We can do whatever we want. We can have diets for philosophical reasons, or not...

    It sounds like you are doing the right thing to make a change, though. Being tired all of the time must wear on you...I would want a really REALLY good philosophical reason to make myself be tired all of the time if you suspect diet is the culprit.

    Thanks. I was preaching this Vegan lifestyle to a lot and it has actually helped with a few I known to reverse diabetes. But I couldn't fake it any longer and pretend I felt like a super hero. I still believe in plants as this optimum source, but omega 3's from fish and complete proteins are essential as well as b12 from animals instead of relying on a pill to take each day. Why take pills if it was all natural anyways.

    Here's the thing: there are alternate sources for Omega 3 (I get mine from algae) and you can get complete proteins from plants (a few plants are complete and your body can easily combine the proteins in other foods).

    I'm not sure why you are convinced that veganism has to be all natural. We do tons of things that aren't natural (you're having a discussion on a computer right now) and I don't know relevance "natural" has for your actions in 2017.

    If you no longer wish to be vegan, I don't think there is anything anyone can say to convince you otherwise. But I hope when you explain your reasons why, you keep it factual.

    Point taken. I guess when I refer to natural, I'm referring to eating habits and availability. In most cultures they eat what is relatively available in their region, such as in Thailand, India, China, etc... I live in a western culture, (Texas), which is mostly red meat, BBQ brisket, and little to no greens. Now I know for a fact this is not healthy. So I'm referring to what is naturally available for their culture.

    I understand the mixing of foods to get a complete protein. My daily foods(mostly) were chickpeas and quinoa as a base. Most of the foods are needed to be mixed with some time of grain (rice, spelt, rye, etc.. ) to get a complete protein with the exception of Quinoa. But these grains are what's causing my digestive issues and chronic fatigue.

    I've tried the raw fruits/foods for about 6 weeks, which gave energy, but honestly it was not practical and forcing myself to pretend to enjoy these foods felt more of a burden and a sacrifice. During that 6 weeks I loss some muscle mass and didn't really care how I was looking in mirror. So I went back to beans, grains and greens.

    I'm just starting to believe that I should be able to get all my key nutrients from nature instead of a laboratory or whatever is in my region in order to be self sufficient for the long term. Just a thought though.

    But yes, I can be convinced to stay vegan because that's where my heart is, but my body is not agreeing with it.
  • Lavelle1980
    Lavelle1980 Posts: 374 Member
    Do what feels right for you, boo.

    Thank you. I figured, Vegan is not a religion lol
  • SomebodyWakeUpHIcks
    SomebodyWakeUpHIcks Posts: 3,836 Member
    I'm sorry I brought up monkeys. Wasn't trying to bring on a serious biological debate, just trying to irritate @SomebodyWakeUpHIcks by being contrary.
    It's not the monkey debate that irritates me about you. It's your history of movie watching.

    I watched Monkey Trouble does that help?

    You give me tired head. :(
  • chrissi_k
    chrissi_k Posts: 175 Member
    edited October 2017
    Motorsheen wrote: »
    chrissi_k wrote: »
    chrissi_k wrote: »
    Lavelle, I hardly post (as you can see) in the forum, but as a vegan I would think it a shame for you to giving up a plant based lifestyle (no judging though)
    Have you checked your vitamin d? is your b12 low? B12 is just something you'll have to supplement, it is not bad to do so. And don't forget that even omnivores and vegetarians can have a b12 deficiency.
    If you have any questions you can message me or I can point you in the direction of some awesome groups.

    I hope you'll find whatever works best for you.

    Trust me, I understand that I will upset most vegans. I do supplement with Jarrow B12, also their multi b complex and Garden of Eden Raw multi vitamin (added multi vitamin 2 weeks to see if any improvement)... None helped, and I felt miserable with brain fog. Then I'm thinking. If our ancestors couldn't get B12 from plants then they had to obviously get it from fish or meat. However, they didn't eat meat at a high consumption as we do today. I also understand the ethical reasons as well. I loved the grains but hate the feeling it gave me.

    You have to do what is right for you. Would I prefer that everyone has the same believes as I do, of course, but don't we all?!

    I hope that you'll feel better soon.

    So, you're a vegan?

    2 quick questions:

    1 why?
    2 Is it difficult?

    no judging (promise) / just curious

    I am vegan, my husband isn't. We live in peace ;)

    Edit: Sorry half my reply got deleted on my phone

    1. I am for ethnical reasons and the environment
    2. it is easy for me. I was a vegetarian for a really long time and was never a big meat or fish eater. I loved yogurt and cheese though. Now I make my own yogurt and when I feel like it cheese. I love to cook, make bread and bake. A lot of things are vegan anyways. There are a lot of things I make that my non-vegan family members, friends etc. love and ask for.

    The important thing to remember is though that vegan doesn't mean eating only healthy. You can eat healthy/unhealthy as a vegan, omnivor or vegetarian.

  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    Well, one of the benefits of meta-cognition is that we don't have to act like our evolutionary ancestors and cousins.

    We can do whatever we want. We can have diets for philosophical reasons, or not...

    It sounds like you are doing the right thing to make a change, though. Being tired all of the time must wear on you...I would want a really REALLY good philosophical reason to make myself be tired all of the time if you suspect diet is the culprit.

    Thanks. I was preaching this Vegan lifestyle to a lot and it has actually helped with a few I known to reverse diabetes. But I couldn't fake it any longer and pretend I felt like a super hero. I still believe in plants as this optimum source, but omega 3's from fish and complete proteins are essential as well as b12 from animals instead of relying on a pill to take each day. Why take pills if it was all natural anyways.

    Here's the thing: there are alternate sources for Omega 3 (I get mine from algae) and you can get complete proteins from plants (a few plants are complete and your body can easily combine the proteins in other foods).

    I'm not sure why you are convinced that veganism has to be all natural. We do tons of things that aren't natural (you're having a discussion on a computer right now) and I don't know relevance "natural" has for your actions in 2017.

    If you no longer wish to be vegan, I don't think there is anything anyone can say to convince you otherwise. But I hope when you explain your reasons why, you keep it factual.

    Point taken. I guess when I refer to natural, I'm referring to eating habits and availability. In most cultures they eat what is relatively available in their region, such as in Thailand, India, China, etc... I live in a western culture, (Texas), which is mostly red meat, BBQ brisket, and little to no greens. Now I know for a fact this is not healthy. So I'm referring to what is naturally available for their culture.

    I understand the mixing of foods to get a complete protein. My daily foods(mostly) were chickpeas and quinoa as a base. Most of the foods are needed to be mixed with some time of grain (rice, spelt, rye, etc.. ) to get a complete protein with the exception of Quinoa. But these grains are what's causing my digestive issues and chronic fatigue.

    I've tried the raw fruits/foods for about 6 weeks, which gave energy, but honestly it was not practical and forcing myself to pretend to enjoy these foods felt more of a burden and a sacrifice. During that 6 weeks I loss some muscle mass and didn't really care how I was looking in mirror. So I went back to beans, grains and greens.

    I'm just starting to believe that I should be able to get all my key nutrients from nature instead of a laboratory or whatever is in my region in order to be self sufficient for the long term. Just a thought though.

    But yes, I can be convinced to stay vegan because that's where my heart is, but my body is not agreeing with it.

    I've never lived in Texas, but I'm from Arkansas and greens are *available* there (it's that many people choose not to eat them). I think there is often a difference between what can easily be grown or cultivated within a region and what people choose to eat. So red meat and brisket aren't "natural" foods for people in Texas, they'e just what many people there tend to eat (note: I'm not saying they're *unnatural* either).

    Grain is optional for a healthy vegan diet, especially if you're eating a variety of nuts and legumes. Many vegans eat a lot of grain because they enjoy it and it's got a lot of nutrients, but there's no reason to eat it if it doesn't make you feel well. Soy is a complete protein, so adding tempeh or tofu to your diet (if you don't eat them already) will help you meet your nutritional needs. Cronometer.com allows tracking of individual amino acids, so if you enter in what you're eating it will help you identify what (if anything) you need more of when you're not eating grains.

    I'm not saying this in an attempt to convince you do to anything you don't want to do, because in the end the decision is just yours and it has to be driven by what you want and what you prioritize. This is directed at you if you want to be vegan and are trying to figure out if you can make it work if you don't feel well eating grains.
  • ZodFit
    ZodFit Posts: 394 Member
    edited October 2017
    chrissi_k wrote: »
    Look in the mirror and smile and you'll see two reasons why you should not be vegetarian

    1). Your eyes are in the front of your head. You're a hunter. Plant eating animals have eyes on the side of their heads.

    2). You have canine teeth. Used to bite and tear meat, not plants .



    Humans are plant eating animals. The fact that we eat meat doesn't change the fact that we eat plants.

    I always think of this picture when someone says humans have canine teeth used to tear meat. I honestly couldn't chase a cow and then rip it apart with my teeth.




    084.png

    You realize we have been eating cooked meat which helped our brain develop to what it is today?

    The canines tear through cooked meat now raw, living cow. PLUS breh, why arnt you picturing yourself with some sort of spear...how are you gunna just leap at a cow?

    *In reference to that image chart



  • Tweaking_Time
    Tweaking_Time Posts: 733 Member
    Points to the OP for trying the plant based diet diet for a year. Points to the OP again for easing back into meat.

    I read all of these posts, and I am glad most were not snarky, because I have trouble understanding why, unless there are medical reasons, people can eliminate entire food groups...like meat. I know some people claim ethical reasons - but ethical reasons regarding consuming meat take on a matter of personal perspective depending if you are a vegan, vegetarian, a cattle rancher, or a hunter or fisherman.

    Good luck to all vegans and vegetarians - although its not for me - but I have to admit I really love the black bean burgers my vegan co-worker introduced me to...but I like it better with cheese.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,878 Member
    edited October 2017
    Points to the OP for trying the plant based diet diet for a year. Points to the OP again for easing back into meat.

    I read all of these posts, and I am glad most were not snarky, because I have trouble understanding why, unless there are medical reasons, people can eliminate entire food groups...like meat. I know some people claim ethical reasons - but ethical reasons regarding consuming meat take on a matter of personal perspective depending if you are a vegan, vegetarian, a cattle rancher, or a hunter or fisherman.

    Good luck to all vegans and vegetarians - although its not for me - but I have to admit I really love the black bean burgers my vegan co-worker introduced me to...but I like it better with cheese.

    The reason we *can* eliminate things like meat is because we're biologically omnivores, capable of getting energy and nutrition from a variety of foods.

    That's why it's possible for humans to do it. I'm not sure if that's what you mean by "can" or if you're asking more why someone *would* choose to do this. If that's what you're asking, then yes -- ethical reasons would be the driver.

    We have a personal perspective on all ethical issues. People hold different positions on war, on sexual morality, on the appropriateness of certain business behaviors, on whether or not it is ever okay to tell a lie. Whether or not it's okay to use animals for pleasure or convenience is just another area where humans can reach different conclusions as to what is truly ethical.