Vegan Debate - Are we truly Herbivores or Omnivores.

We're omnivores -- we obviously have the ability to meet our nutritional needs on a wide variety of dietary patterns, those that include meat and those that don't have meat.

Are you a ruminant animal? Unless you are a mutant and lack the digestive system of homo sapiens, then no - you are an omnivore.

Due to the advancement of civilization we have the opportunity to supplement diet and choose any variety of diet.

Our teeth and our stomach tell the story. How many stomachs does a cow have compare to ours? Those extra stomachs are required to eke out sufficient nutrition from the grasses. We don't have them.

Humans are an amazingly adaptable species....although we need a balanced diet to thrive, we can survive on almost any diet, at least long enough to pass on our genes. If you consider eskimoes eating mainly whale/seal/fish , the isolated Amazonian tribes still hunting and gathering, fruitarians, fussy kids who live on nothing but yogurt for months, the sailors who were at sea for months on end centuries ago.....it is truly incredible what the human body can put up with.

In answer to the original question, I suspect we adapted to eat what was available. In some regions that could well have been vegan (I'm thinking of vegetarian buddhists in countries like China where dairy isn't part of the diet). I suspect though that for most of the world, what was available included meat.

Glad to see reason here and not pseudoscience; not only is B12 an issue, but getting adequate amounts of all amino acids, vitamins, and minerals requires a wide range of foods, not all of which would be available in the same geographic region. We shouldn't overestimate the AMOUNT of meat our ancestors ate; we are not carnivores (as I understand it the dietary breakdown of ancestral hominids was mostly plants with some meat). But there are exactly zero human civilizations that are vegan, and those who come close eat meat/animal products every once in a while. Even other primates eat meat; at least in the form of insects. And the ability to control fire and cook meat was crucial to the development of the human brain (as, for that matter, was agriculture and the ability to grow grains/tubers/legumes/other plant stuffs). We can't exist on the extreme of keto, nor can we exist on the extreme of veganism, without supplements.

I'm a big proponent of a plant-based diet if you can hack it. I just think we shouldn't make the argument that it's how we were designed to get 100% of our nutrition.

P.S. super interesting about wolves!! I didn't know that!

timtam163 wrote: »

Glad to see reason here and not pseudoscience; not only is B12 an issue, but getting adequate amounts of all amino acids, vitamins, and minerals requires a wide range of foods, not all of which would be available in the same geographic region. We shouldn't overestimate the AMOUNT of meat our ancestors ate; we are not carnivores (as I understand it the dietary breakdown of ancestral hominids was mostly plants with some meat). But there are exactly zero human civilizations that are vegan, and those who come close eat meat/animal products every once in a while. Even other primates eat meat; at least in the form of insects. And the ability to control fire and cook meat was crucial to the development of the human brain (as, for that matter, was agriculture and the ability to grow grains/tubers/legumes/other plant stuffs). We can't exist on the extreme of keto, nor can we exist on the extreme of veganism, without supplements.

I'm a big proponent of a plant-based diet if you can hack it. I just think we shouldn't make the argument that it's how we were designed to get 100% of our nutrition.

P.S. super interesting about wolves!! I didn't know that!

Not true - all of the nutrients that the human body needs can be accessed by eating a carnivorous diet without the inclusion of plants. We eat plants simply because they are plentiful and easier to obtain than meat in most cases (plants don't run away from you or try to kill you when you are hunting them).

Nony_Mouse wrote: »

AnvilHead wrote: »

Maybe we could get an archaeologist in on the discussion. Is @Nony_Mouse anywhere around?

Half asleep archaeologist says omnivore. It's not even a debate.

Right. It's pretty clear cut. We're obviously omnivores. All kinds of unrelated evidence all points to that fact.

But we're not living in the world our ancestors lived in. We can choose to eat beef or broccoli or both. We have things like refrigeration and medicine and grocery stores and heated indoor homes that our distant ancestors did not have access to. Whatever diet you choose, don't put too much thought into how people lived a million years because while it has some relevance to people in modern society, it only has so much.

NorthCascades wrote: »

@Nony_Mouse

I didn't think you were suggesting we should eat meat because cavemen did. I think it's kind if built into the question.

I didn't really think you were @NorthCascades, clarifying for the masses. Anyone who remembers the raging debates I used to have with the paleo dieters knows my thoughts on that! That whole 'man the hunter' thing was debunked yonks ago, anyway. And even if we could eat the way our Palaeolithic ancestors did (which was obviously remarkably varied depending on When and Where), doesn't mean we should.

Basically, being omnivores gives us the awesome ability to meet our nutritional requirements from a wide variety of sources. As my profile tag lines says, anything that you can ingest that doesn't kill you, whilst avoiding anything that might kill you if it gets the chance

Lavelle1980 wrote: »

jjpptt2 wrote: »

OK, stupid guy asking stupid question... but where did the idea that we were herbivores come from? That seems ridiculous to me...

Well it's a debate. Just like there are a group of people that believe the earth is flat. I'll refrain from calling you names though. Thanks for the comment.

I believe he was referring to himself, not you. Saying he was stupid and asking you a stupid question...not that you were stupid and asking us a stupid question.

Carlos_421 wrote: »

3bambi3 wrote: »

Lavelle1980 wrote: »

jjpptt2 wrote: »

OK, stupid guy asking stupid question... but where did the idea that we were herbivores come from? That seems ridiculous to me...

Well it's a debate. Just like there are a group of people that believe the earth is flat. I'll refrain from calling you names though. Thanks for the comment.

No one called you names. Saying an idea seems ridiculous isn't the same as saying you are ridiculous. And this, much like the question of whether the Earth is flat, isn't a debate. There are facts, and people who choose to ignore those facts.

I think there was a misunderstanding on who was being referred to in the "stupid guy asking a stupid question" part...seems @jjpptt2 was referring to himself while it came across that he meant the OP.

Correct - I was referring to myself as the stupid guy who was asking a stupid question. Sorry if it seemed like that was directed at OP - not my intent at all.