Starting with very high BF % so possible to gain muscle and lose body fat simultaneously
kalyandc
Posts: 12 Member
Hello,
I am 5"8 and 93 kilos (30+% BF). I am currently eating 1500 calories (deficit of 700 calories) and follow stronglifts 5X5 program (squats, bench, military press, deadlift, row; 3 times a week) and doing 3x 30 min cardio per week. I am following this for 9 weeks now and lost 7 kilos. So my question(s) is
- Am I losing fat or losing muscle too (I have a BF scale but it is of no use)?
- Under these conditions can I gain muscle while losing fat?
Btw, I am relatively a beginner when it comes to strength training (I did few months of strength training more than a year ago).
Thank you
I am 5"8 and 93 kilos (30+% BF). I am currently eating 1500 calories (deficit of 700 calories) and follow stronglifts 5X5 program (squats, bench, military press, deadlift, row; 3 times a week) and doing 3x 30 min cardio per week. I am following this for 9 weeks now and lost 7 kilos. So my question(s) is
- Am I losing fat or losing muscle too (I have a BF scale but it is of no use)?
- Under these conditions can I gain muscle while losing fat?
Btw, I am relatively a beginner when it comes to strength training (I did few months of strength training more than a year ago).
Thank you
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Replies
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- Lose not loose. At 30% BF you should lose little to no skeletal muscle, it just wouldn't make any evolutionary sense otherwise.
- Possible, not saying it's going to happen but it's possible.3 -
Possible? Maybe, with the exact right balance. But it'd be much MUCH easier to just choose one (probably dropping to a healthier body fat %) first and then switch goals to building muscle. Doing both at the same time won't actually get you to your end goal faster because I don't believe it isn't nearly as efficient.4
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You're losing mainly fat.
You may get a bit of newbie gains but as long as you maintain your muscle - which you can do as you're lifting and hopefully getting adequate protein - you're good.4 -
Lifting will help you retain the muscle you do have, so you won't lose as much muscle while you're losing fat. You will also get stronger, but unlikely to add "muscle mass". If you lose more fat than muscle, your BF% will go down as you lose weight.
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- Lose not loose. At 30% BF you should lose little to no skeletal muscle, it just wouldn't make any evolutionary sense otherwise.
- Possible, not saying it's going to happen but it's possible.
I'm pretty sure that "loose" is intentional and British. They also "shift" weight. But I'm not sure. British side of MFP, help a gal out?2 -
I've actually been wondering about this. A lot of people BULK before cutting and that's supposed to help with recomp. If we are higher weight, are we not technically "bulked" and should be able to lift and cut?
I think that's OPs question, too.2 -
Leaning out will make you LOOK more muscular, and for a lot of guys (and gals), that's enough. But if you truly want to bulk up, you'll need more calories.
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Cutting is generally easier to do first because bulking up requires you intake more calories than a deficit caloric intake, with high protein content. That said, you're not going to lose muscle by eating 1500 cal/day. It's the minimum recommended intake, for one, so it doesn't make sense for doctors to recommend it if it would cause muscle atrophy. It also doesn't make sense for an overweight body to start eating away at muscle since fat storage is a mechanism specifically for when there is not enough food. Muscle loss only happens with lack of exercise OR once you've depleted your fat stores. Since you're at 30+% BF, that's not gonna happen for a while. [Source, though it focuses on fasting]
It's possible to gain muscle while losing weight, but you won't really bulk up until you start eating more protein.1 -
Yes, you could be adding some muscle. You can build some muscle in a deficit, it's just less than you would at maintenance or above.2
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It is possible to sometimes build muscle and drop fat simultaneously, but at 1500 calories I wouldn't expect much muscle growth, newbie gains or not.I've actually been wondering about this. A lot of people BULK before cutting and that's supposed to help with recomp. If we are higher weight, are we not technically "bulked" and should be able to lift and cut?
I think that's OPs question, too.
I don't really understand what you're asking..?
Of course everyone can "lift and cut", and I'd say it's generally recommended to lift if a person wants to maintain muscle mass while losing weight/fat.
Most bodybuilders are not bulking to the point of 30%+ before cutting though, and they are not a newbie lifter.
I've heard many different things about being overweight vs lean, but for most over weight people I wouldn't really worry about it. Focus on lifting and getting your BF down for now.1 -
Your calorie intake is very low.I am a female, and at 185 pounds, and my calorie intake is close to 1900 a day, and for past 12 weeks have been losing but have also been lifting (Started at 220). The key has been how my macronutrients have been divided. 145 protein, 175 carbs, 64 fats. This is all measured, and that precision really makes all the difference. As I am losing fat, the muscles I have been working on in the gym are slowly beginning to appear. so, to answer your question, yes you can do both. I see trainer once a week, and got the biggest compliment of him saying I was getting jacked. You can totally do this, too!!! Go get it!!0
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You're probably building some muscle. Not much but some. Between newbie gains and your high fat content, you're an exception to the rule about no new muscle in a deficit. You won't be forever though and it's going to come on slower this way, but slower is better than not at all.2
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Some noob gains...they aren't going to be substantial and they don't last that long. The good thing is that you're preserving muscle mass with your lifting. You're losing fat.0
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I have lost weight and fat from 300lbs to 245lbs. I have gained strength going from not lifting to 956lbs combined on powerlifting lifts. I think I have gained size on chest, arms, traps, and legs. If not size I am lifting a lot more with same muscles I had covered in fat.
I did all this with a minimum of cardio, heavy compound lifts, and a calorie deficit. It took 5 months before I had to increase calories to maintenance and continue to progress on lifts.
Don’t take it as easy. I left everything in gym on average 4 days a week in that time. I got a lifting coach early and learned to do it right. I had to sleep at least 8 hours and still felt a bit beat up almost everyday. Recovery was hard, some days really hard.
I don’t know if it will work for you. I am just letting you know what I have done. I think the fatter you are the longer you can push the deficit before it hurts strength gains. I also think getting .8 protein per lbs of body weight helped. I believe that my body used stored fat for energy and used the protein I ate to stop muscle loss and maybe to build a bit. Then again this is personal “ bro science” type stuff and I can’t point to a study that supports my beliefs.0 -
Get a caliper measurement test done. This will give you your answer.0
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I wouldn't worry about it. You're likely losing some muscle but when you lose fat you don't need as much muscle to move your fat around. The end result is that you will probably feel stronger even if you lose some muscle.1
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in a single word no. In reality you have more muscle on your frame than someone else of your same age and an average build simply from moving around all your extra weight. The best you can hope for is not to loose this muscle as you try to diet away the pounds. A very small deficit is best for this. At your weight you could easily lose a few pounds per week but would be better served to take it slow and try to maintain whatever muscle mass you do have.3
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Your calories deficit takes care of fat loss. Are you getting stronger in your lifts? If you are, you're doing it right.0
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I've actually been wondering about this. A lot of people BULK before cutting and that's supposed to help with recomp. If we are higher weight, are we not technically "bulked" and should be able to lift and cut?
I think that's OPs question, too.
Oversimplifying:
"Bulking" refers to following an intense, structured weight training program while eating excess calories, because the best conditions for adding muscle mass include eating at a surplus. That means some fat will be added, too.
"Cutting" refers to continuing with weight training at an intensity that will retain as much muscle mass as possible, while eating at a deficit to lose fat and reveal the muscle built during bulking.
"Bulking" is not just gaining fat while doing whatever. Lots of us do that. When we lose weight, we have less fat, but there's no notable muscle mass to reveal.
Commonly, people repeat cycles of bulking and cutting, adding more muscle mass with each bulk period, and losing fat back to a target weight (or body fat percent) while maintaining muscle mass with each cut period. Over time, total muscle mass increases.
Recomp is a whole other strategy from bulking and cutting. In recomp, one eats approximately at maintenance calories, and follows an intense weight training program designed to add muscle mass. Because conditions for adding muscle mass are suboptimal (no calorie surplus), muscle mass is built more slowly. No cycles in this process, though: They just keep going.
Overall, bulk and cut should build more muscle faster, but the body weight management can be more difficult, annoying, or inconvenient. With recomposition, the weight management is less complicated, but muscle mass is gained more slowly.
More or less.
But I don't think that's OP's question. I think OP has heard that some very obese people who weight train at sufficient intensity can gain some muscle mass even while losing weight, if also new to weight lifting. I think his question is whether his BF% and newness to lifting are enough to put him in that position. More or less.
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What is your daily protein intake?
When in a calorie deficit, the 2 greatest factors in maintaining/building muscle are adequate protein and strength training. You are more likely to build muscle as a noon lifter, but only if you eat enough protein.
Many people debate about what the minimum is, or what range is optimal. The most consistent range I have heard is 0.8-1.2 grams per lb. of lean body mass or about 1.8-2.6 g/ kg LBM. So for you that would be about 120-170g of protein/ day. I tend to stay near the high end because extra protein helps me not feel as hungry.0 -
Oversimplifying:
"Bulking" refers to following an intense, structured weight training program while eating excess calories, because the best conditions for adding muscle mass include eating at a surplus. That means some fat will be added, too.
"Cutting" refers to continuing with weight training at an intensity that will retain as much muscle mass as possible, while eating at a deficit to lose fat and reveal the muscle built during bulking.
"Bulking" is not just gaining fat while doing whatever. Lots of us do that. When we lose weight, we have less fat, but there's no notable muscle mass to reveal.
Commonly, people repeat cycles of bulking and cutting, adding more muscle mass with each bulk period, and losing fat back to a target weight (or body fat percent) while maintaining muscle mass with each cut period. Over time, total muscle mass increases.
Recomp is a whole other strategy from bulking and cutting. In recomp, one eats approximately at maintenance calories, and follows an intense weight training program designed to add muscle mass. Because conditions for adding muscle mass are suboptimal (no calorie surplus), muscle mass is built more slowly. No cycles in this process, though: They just keep going.
Overall, bulk and cut should build more muscle faster, but the body weight management can be more difficult, annoying, or inconvenient. With recomposition, the weight management is less complicated, but muscle mass is gained more slowly.
Thank you for posting this. I've been wondering what the differences are and this is very helpful.0 -
You're losing about 1.8 pounds a week, if getting stronger and maintaining/building muscle is your biggest concern/goal, then you're probably going to want to scale that back to .5 - 1 pound eventually. When you start failing lifts will probably be a sign that it's time to reduce your deficit, which is fairly aggressive.0
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I've actually been wondering about this. A lot of people BULK before cutting and that's supposed to help with recomp. If we are higher weight, are we not technically "bulked" and should be able to lift and cut?
I think that's OPs question, too.
Oversimplifying:
........Overall, bulk and cut should build more muscle faster, but the body weight management can be more difficult, annoying, or inconvenient. With recomposition, the weight management is less complicated, but muscle mass is gained more slowly......
@AnnPT77 Thank you for this.0 -
So many people seem obsessed with how much muscle they might be adding while dieting and working out. You can add some muscle eating at a deficit, but even starting out you aren't adding more than a pound or two a month... which is hard to even tell due to normal fluctuations.
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain/
...How Fast Can You Build Muscle… REALLY?
So, that’s how much you can gain total. The question now is, how long does it take to build it and how fast can it be done?
Well, once again, I’m going by various trainers/coaches I’ve heard discuss the true rate of muscle growth among their clients, the few studies that have looked at this as well, and my own 10+ years of first hand experience and observation.
Based on all of this, here’s how fast you can expect to build muscle on average:
Average Natural MAN: between 0.25 and 0.5 pounds of muscle per week (or about 1-2 pounds of muscle gained per month).
Average Natural WOMAN: between 0.12 – 0.25 pounds of muscle per week (or about 0.5-1 pound of muscle gained per month).0
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