Keto and Calorie Deficit
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Scarlett_S
Posts: 467 Member
I have lost 100 lbs, 40 lbs, 20 lbs, etc...at different junctures in my life. I have waves of motivation, I've had periods of time where I exercised twice a day for an hour at a time vs. barely making myself work out 30 minutes three times a week. Right now I am currently 30 lbs heavier than I'd like to be but still 65 lbs less than my "high" weight five years ago. I've done Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, Atkins, extreme (500 calories a day for a month with an hour of cardio daily, ugh) and honestly....they've all worked if I am truly diligent and log my food and stick with the program. I'm miserable with the 30 extra pounds right now. Its taken me from a size 8 to a size 12 and I'm very unhappy with it, it overshadows everything I think, feel, do, every day. But I've also lost and gained the same 10 lbs three times over the last year so I could've easily shed it by now.
I'm seeing absolutely phenomenal, fast results with people who are doing keto. Like faster than weight loss surgery results. Yet I can't wrap my head around the fact that you basically lose weight if you are in a calorie deficit even if you are eating a quarter pounder a day or 27 tootsie rolls. I understand the concept of ketosis, certainly, but don't really understand how it differs from eating at a deficit as far as how your body rids itself of the extra weight. I ask because I've tried it and cannot really tolerate the high fat; and while I can get my carbs pretty low, getting them under 18 per day is pretty darn hard. Its much easier for me to eat all my calories in a 7-8 hour window; not eat at night, abstain from alcohol 90% of the time, and work out M-F....and try to eat low carb but not restrict myself from any one food.
Is there anyone that believes or can support that fact that keto works better/faster and is better long term for you?
I'm seeing absolutely phenomenal, fast results with people who are doing keto. Like faster than weight loss surgery results. Yet I can't wrap my head around the fact that you basically lose weight if you are in a calorie deficit even if you are eating a quarter pounder a day or 27 tootsie rolls. I understand the concept of ketosis, certainly, but don't really understand how it differs from eating at a deficit as far as how your body rids itself of the extra weight. I ask because I've tried it and cannot really tolerate the high fat; and while I can get my carbs pretty low, getting them under 18 per day is pretty darn hard. Its much easier for me to eat all my calories in a 7-8 hour window; not eat at night, abstain from alcohol 90% of the time, and work out M-F....and try to eat low carb but not restrict myself from any one food.
Is there anyone that believes or can support that fact that keto works better/faster and is better long term for you?
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Replies
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You lose quite a bit of water weight at first with keto because of eating very low carb but long term there isn't any significant differences between keto and non keto calorie deficits12
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Being in ketosis the body uses fat for its primary fuel source, not carbs. I did keto for 4.5 months whilst training for (and running) a marathon. I knew at the time that it would not be a sustainable diet for me long-term because of the amount of prep needed and the lack of wine (which I enjoy, and life is too short not to have the things you enjoy every now and then), and my sweat smelt funny (normal on keto). However, this was something I wanted to experiment with so that I wasn't using high sugar gels during the race (because they give me a bad tummy).
I did lose weight over this period but not all that was fat, I lost some muscle mass as well which I am still working on gaining back. Initially, the weight loss was rapid (water weight) but eventually, it was around 2 lb a week consistently but the quantity I ate was eeeeenormous (which I loved). However, had I been on CICO, the weight loss would have been the same over that same period and I wouldn't have lost as much muscle mass. Whilst I was lighter (perfect for endurance running), my body shape was not as it had been previously and not to my liking. Back to CICO for me. Apart from the marathon training I still weight trained and did circuits.
IF I wanted to lose a few pounds to get into a dress or for a special occasion, I would go seriously low carb for a week or so but it can take 3-4 weeks to get into ketosis and a few more weeks thereafter to become fat adapted.
Low carb/keto/paleo and any calorie restriction diet can really mess with your head. I am currently working on just making sure I get enough protein and workout reguarly and had my TDEE calculated and now following CICO. I don't have to pre-think going out for meals or family get togethers, carry cream around with me or ingest large quantities of sodium and can enjoy fruit again without the guilt. I am far more aware of the quantity of sugar in foods now though which isn't a bad thing.8 -
Scarlett_S wrote: »I have lost 100 lbs, 40 lbs, 20 lbs, etc...at different junctures in my life. I have waves of motivation, I've had periods of time where I exercised twice a day for an hour at a time vs. barely making myself work out 30 minutes three times a week. Right now I am currently 30 lbs heavier than I'd like to be but still 65 lbs less than my "high" weight five years ago. I've done Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, Atkins, extreme (500 calories a day for a month with an hour of cardio daily, ugh) and honestly....they've all worked if I am truly diligent and log my food and stick with the program. I'm miserable with the 30 extra pounds right now. Its taken me from a size 8 to a size 12 and I'm very unhappy with it, it overshadows everything I think, feel, do, every day. But I've also lost and gained the same 10 lbs three times over the last year so I could've easily shed it by now.
I'm seeing absolutely phenomenal, fast results with people who are doing keto. Like faster than weight loss surgery results. Yet I can't wrap my head around the fact that you basically lose weight if you are in a calorie deficit even if you are eating a quarter pounder a day or 27 tootsie rolls. I understand the concept of ketosis, certainly, but don't really understand how it differs from eating at a deficit as far as how your body rids itself of the extra weight. I ask because I've tried it and cannot really tolerate the high fat; and while I can get my carbs pretty low, getting them under 18 per day is pretty darn hard. Its much easier for me to eat all my calories in a 7-8 hour window; not eat at night, abstain from alcohol 90% of the time, and work out M-F....and try to eat low carb but not restrict myself from any one food.
Is there anyone that believes or can support that fact that keto works better/faster and is better long term for you?
Well... You can't eat the bun of the quarter pounder... and the tootsie rolls are absolutely forbidden!4 -
Hi , there are lots of 'pro-LCHF and keto' posts on the community site below and a lot of good tips and experiences too.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/394-low-carber-daily-forum-the-lcd-group2 -
As others said, you tend to lose a bit more water weight more quickly when you cut carbs. It seems 1-5 lbs is pretty normal.
Others lose faster because the diet dampens their appetite and cravings. They just naturally lower their calories and lose faster.
Some will naturally increase protein when ketogenic which can create a small weight loss advantage, and help preserve lean mass.
Those who are insulin resistant (with T2D, prediabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, or Alzheimer's) seem to lose slightly faster when carbs are restricted but it works out to around 5-6 lbs more lost in a year. Not a lot.
If you are an athlete who is ketogenic, your fat oxidation levels will increase over time so it may make it easier to tap into fat stores for energy during exercise.
I lose slightly faster when ketogenic. If I aim for a 1.5 lb loss per week, at 1420 kcals, and I eat more than that (~1500kcal), I lose 2-3 lbs a week. I do have IR though so that may be a factor. I also have autoimmune issues that may respond better to low carb. It's a small difference but I'll take it.
For me, keto is best and I have stuck with it for most of the last few years.
I think the main thing for those who have success with keto is that losing weight starts to be easier and they feel better. Under eating is no longer hard. After years of struggling to lose weight, or keep it off, keto almost feels like magic even if it isn't.
For those who don't like a lot of fats, or are very insulin sensitive, the ketogenic diet does not offer a lot of benefits. Those people won't stick to it, nor do they need to.0 -
As others said, you tend to lose a bit more water weight more quickly when you cut carbs. It seems 1-5 lbs is pretty normal.
Others lose faster because the diet dampens their appetite and cravings. They just naturally lower their calories and lose faster.
Some will naturally increase protein when ketogenic which can create a small weight loss advantage, and help preserve lean mass.
Those who are insulin resistant (with T2D, prediabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, or Alzheimer's) seem to lose slightly faster when carbs are restricted but it works out to around 5-6 lbs more lost in a year. Not a lot.
If you are an athlete who is ketogenic, your fat oxidation levels will increase over time so it may make it easier to tap into fat stores for energy during exercise.
I lose slightly faster when ketogenic. If I aim for a 1.5 lb loss per week, at 1420 kcals, and I eat more than that (~1500kcal), I lose 2-3 lbs a week. I do have IR though so that may be a factor. I also have autoimmune issues that may respond better to low carb. It's a small difference but I'll take it. For me, keto is best and I have stuck with it for most of the last few years.
I think the main thing for those who have success with keto is that losing weight starts to be easier and they feel better. Under eating is no longer hard. After years of struggling to lose weight, or keep it off, keto almost feels like magic even if it isn't.
For those who don't like a lot of fats, or are very insulin sensitive, the ketogenic diet does not offer a lot of benefits. Those people won't stick to it, nor do they need to.
Interesting. If it could up my loss even 1/2 a pound a week I'd be willing to try it. I'm finding, for some reason, losing 30 lbs is harder than the 100 I lost previously.
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marthafox1 wrote: »Being in ketosis the body uses fat for its primary fuel source, not carbs. I did keto for 4.5 months whilst training for (and running) a marathon. I knew at the time that it would not be a sustainable diet for me long-term because of the amount of prep needed and the lack of wine (which I enjoy, and life is too short not to have the things you enjoy every now and then), and my sweat smelt funny (normal on keto). However, this was something I wanted to experiment with so that I wasn't using high sugar gels during the race (because they give me a bad tummy).
I did lose weight over this period but not all that was fat, I lost some muscle mass as well which I am still working on gaining back. Initially, the weight loss was rapid (water weight) but eventually, it was around 2 lb a week consistently but the quantity I ate was eeeeenormous (which I loved). However, had I been on CICO, the weight loss would have been the same over that same period and I wouldn't have lost as much muscle mass. Whilst I was lighter (perfect for endurance running), my body shape was not as it had been previously and not to my liking. Back to CICO for me. Apart from the marathon training I still weight trained and did circuits.
IF I wanted to lose a few pounds to get into a dress or for a special occasion, I would go seriously low carb for a week or so but it can take 3-4 weeks to get into ketosis and a few more weeks thereafter to become fat adapted.
Low carb/keto/paleo and any calorie restriction diet can really mess with your head. I am currently working on just making sure I get enough protein and workout reguarly and had my TDEE calculated and now following CICO. I don't have to pre-think going out for meals or family get togethers, carry cream around with me or ingest large quantities of sodium and can enjoy fruit again without the guilt. I am far more aware of the quantity of sugar in foods now though which isn't a bad thing.
Thanks for the input. I think your last paragraph is kind of where I am at. Its much less stressful for me to know I can get lunch on the fly if I need to or go to someone's birthday celebration and have a vodka soda once in awhile. I also like wine (although I've given it up for the next 90 days) and frequently do winery tours, etc., with my boyfriend and don't want to give up the wine tasting. I'm actually going to try keto this week and try to keep the carbs under 25 a day and see how my body responds to it. I'm already shocked at the hidden carbs in everything, even though I knew this was the case all along. I've only had lunch and a snack and I'm at 15 carbs already.0 -
Scarlett_S wrote: »As others said, you tend to lose a bit more water weight more quickly when you cut carbs. It seems 1-5 lbs is pretty normal.
Others lose faster because the diet dampens their appetite and cravings. They just naturally lower their calories and lose faster.
Some will naturally increase protein when ketogenic which can create a small weight loss advantage, and help preserve lean mass.
Those who are insulin resistant (with T2D, prediabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, or Alzheimer's) seem to lose slightly faster when carbs are restricted but it works out to around 5-6 lbs more lost in a year. Not a lot.
If you are an athlete who is ketogenic, your fat oxidation levels will increase over time so it may make it easier to tap into fat stores for energy during exercise.
I lose slightly faster when ketogenic. If I aim for a 1.5 lb loss per week, at 1420 kcals, and I eat more than that (~1500kcal), I lose 2-3 lbs a week. I do have IR though so that may be a factor. I also have autoimmune issues that may respond better to low carb. It's a small difference but I'll take it. For me, keto is best and I have stuck with it for most of the last few years.
I think the main thing for those who have success with keto is that losing weight starts to be easier and they feel better. Under eating is no longer hard. After years of struggling to lose weight, or keep it off, keto almost feels like magic even if it isn't.
For those who don't like a lot of fats, or are very insulin sensitive, the ketogenic diet does not offer a lot of benefits. Those people won't stick to it, nor do they need to.
Interesting. If it could up my loss even 1/2 a pound a week I'd be willing to try it. I'm finding, for some reason, losing 30 lbs is harder than the 100 I lost previously.
I don't think I am the norm in ketogenic circles. I think my experience is not an abnormality but I don't think it is a majority. Keto just works very well for me.
Unless you have a medical reason to stay keto (under 20-50g carbs), you may want to think about low carb (under 100-150g carb) if you want the dietary flexibility. Just remember, unless you need high ketones for medical reasons, cycling out of ketosis is not a bad thing - you're just using some metabolic flexibility. Including a higher (well, moderate) carb day here and there, and then going back into ketosis, gets easier the longer one is in ketosis. It does not have to be all or nothing, although starting out that way seems to work well. 0 -
For me, keto is more of a hunger management tool over a weight management tool. I've had the same results weight-loss wise as it all comes down to calories - I do find i'm less snacky on keto.5
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Scarlett_S wrote: »As others said, you tend to lose a bit more water weight more quickly when you cut carbs. It seems 1-5 lbs is pretty normal.
Others lose faster because the diet dampens their appetite and cravings. They just naturally lower their calories and lose faster.
Some will naturally increase protein when ketogenic which can create a small weight loss advantage, and help preserve lean mass.
Those who are insulin resistant (with T2D, prediabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, or Alzheimer's) seem to lose slightly faster when carbs are restricted but it works out to around 5-6 lbs more lost in a year. Not a lot.
If you are an athlete who is ketogenic, your fat oxidation levels will increase over time so it may make it easier to tap into fat stores for energy during exercise.
I lose slightly faster when ketogenic. If I aim for a 1.5 lb loss per week, at 1420 kcals, and I eat more than that (~1500kcal), I lose 2-3 lbs a week. I do have IR though so that may be a factor. I also have autoimmune issues that may respond better to low carb. It's a small difference but I'll take it. For me, keto is best and I have stuck with it for most of the last few years.
I think the main thing for those who have success with keto is that losing weight starts to be easier and they feel better. Under eating is no longer hard. After years of struggling to lose weight, or keep it off, keto almost feels like magic even if it isn't.
For those who don't like a lot of fats, or are very insulin sensitive, the ketogenic diet does not offer a lot of benefits. Those people won't stick to it, nor do they need to.
Interesting. If it could up my loss even 1/2 a pound a week I'd be willing to try it. I'm finding, for some reason, losing 30 lbs is harder than the 100 I lost previously.
I don't think I am the norm in ketogenic circles. I think my experience is not an abnormality but I don't think it is a majority. Keto just works very well for me.
Unless you have a medical reason to stay keto (under 20-50g carbs), you may want to think about low carb (under 100-150g carb) if you want the dietary flexibility. Just remember, unless you need high ketones for medical reasons, cycling out of ketosis is not a bad thing - you're just using some metabolic flexibility. Including a higher (well, moderate) carb day here and there, and then going back into ketosis, gets easier the longer one is in ketosis. It does not have to be all or nothing, although starting out that way seems to work well.
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No medical issues here, just sick of my extra 30 lbs. I did very well on low carb before -- was looking back on my food diary from 2011-2013 and I was about 1200-1600 calories a day, high protein and less than 70 carbs daily. I lost 90 lbs in 9 months; but I was also exercising about ten hours a week. Thanks for the input. I just know I can't stomach a whole lot of high fat without being extremely nauseous, throwing up, and then thirty minutes later being hungry again!!!0
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Do you see the connection between that, and this:Scarlett_S wrote: »I have lost 100 lbs, 40 lbs, 20 lbs, etc...at different junctures in my life. I have waves of motivation, I've had periods of time where I exercised twice a day for an hour at a time vs. barely making myself work out 30 minutes three times a week. Right now I am currently 30 lbs heavier than I'd like to be but still 65 lbs less than my "high" weight five years ago. I've done Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, Atkins, extreme (500 calories a day for a month with an hour of cardio daily, ugh) and honestly....they've all worked if I am truly diligent and log my food and stick with the program. I'm miserable with the 30 extra pounds right now. Its taken me from a size 8 to a size 12 and I'm very unhappy with it, it overshadows everything I think, feel, do, every day. But I've also lost and gained the same 10 lbs three times over the last year so I could've easily shed it by now.
If not: You are starving and exhausting yourself, and you don't understand why you feel miserable? You're expecting fast results, and even expecting different results by doing the same. Of course diets work if you stick to them, but can you stick to them?I'm seeing absolutely phenomenal, fast results with people who are doing keto. Like faster than weight loss surgery results.
That's how it is. Fat can come off faster when you have more of it. You have to be eat less, be more accurate, and more patient, to continue losing.I'm finding, for some reason, losing 30 lbs is harder than the 100 I lost previously.6 -
kommodevaran wrote: »
Do you see the connection between that, and this:Scarlett_S wrote: »I have lost 100 lbs, 40 lbs, 20 lbs, etc...at different junctures in my life. I have waves of motivation, I've had periods of time where I exercised twice a day for an hour at a time vs. barely making myself work out 30 minutes three times a week. Right now I am currently 30 lbs heavier than I'd like to be but still 65 lbs less than my "high" weight five years ago. I've done Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, Atkins, extreme (500 calories a day for a month with an hour of cardio daily, ugh) and honestly....they've all worked if I am truly diligent and log my food and stick with the program. I'm miserable with the 30 extra pounds right now. Its taken me from a size 8 to a size 12 and I'm very unhappy with it, it overshadows everything I think, feel, do, every day. But I've also lost and gained the same 10 lbs three times over the last year so I could've easily shed it by now.
If not: You are starving and exhausting yourself, and you don't understand why you feel miserable? You're expecting fast results, and even expecting different results by doing the same. Of course diets work if you stick to them, but can you stick to them?I'm seeing absolutely phenomenal, fast results with people who are doing keto. Like faster than weight loss surgery results.
That's how it is. Fat can come off faster when you have more of it. You have to be eat less, be more accurate, and more patient, to continue losing.I'm finding, for some reason, losing 30 lbs is harder than the 100 I lost previously.
I'm definitely not starving myself, lol....just finding it hard to stick to a plan motivation wise and was intrigued by keto because I know low carb has worked well in the past. I'm about five days in now and have the initial five pound water weight loss; just trying to stick with low carb, count calories, high protein, exercise in some form or fashion everyday even if I can't get a whole hour in. I got stuck in a rut and hate to use life circumstances as a cop out, but I went through a divorce (after 22 years), my company was sold and subsequently closed (worked there 20 years), moved twice and changed jobs twice in two years, so crazy times, including a nasty custody battle, restraining order, you name it. I'm more on an even keel now and hoping I can motivate myself to have a normal healthy lifestyle again.
1 -
So it's not that plan that helps you lose weight but the one that helps you lose weight and keep it off that is important. Honestly, it seems you are looking to a diet, rather than a method of eating that can be sustainable. You honestly don't need to subscribe to a particular diet (I certainly don't), especially considering you have tried a lot and all have had regain issues.
So why not just play around with foods/macro combinations to figure out what satiates. Also, if you can't eat a lot of fat, than keto is not for you. Personally, I concentrate on adequate protien and fiber. And then I eat foods that will fill be up; I also incorporate refeeds (eating at maintenance for two days straight).0 -
So here's the deal. You say all these specialized programs "work", but they're obviously not working if the weight keeps coming back. What's the common factor? They're not sustainable.
Keto, for MOST people, is not sustainable. You're just applying another band-aid to your weight loss struggles.
To have long-lasting success, you need to find a style of eating that you can use for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. There's no easy short-cut.
The simplest thing you can do is keep enjoying the same foods you already enjoy in smaller portions. Find active pursuits that you enjoy, or don't. There's nothing wrong with being Sedentary, in weight loss/maintenance terms. Exercise is wonderful for keeping your body healthy but not necessary whatsoever for weight loss.
Most people here find sustainable success by counting calories and eating whatever they like to eat as long as it fits within their calorie goal. Setting a modest calorie deficit ensures that you won't burn yourself out by eating too little. For most people, that's 1 lbs a week. Don't try to lose more than 1% of your weight per week.
Another thing to keep in mind is that you need to shift your focus on what "Maintenance" looks like. When you reach your goal, you can't just go back to doing what you did before. You WILL regain the weight. Look at maintenance as a higher calorie goal and nothing more. You may not need to count calories every day, but you do need to monitor your weight by stepping on the scale once and a while. If you find your weight creeping back up, you need to eat smaller portions and potentially start logging your intake again. It's a lifelong commitment. No quick fixes.0 -
What do you call 500 calories a day for a month if not starvation?I'm definitely not starving myself, lol....
What do you mean by "worked well in the past"? You'd want a plan that works now, and in the future. Something you have to "try to stick to" does not fill those criteria.just finding it hard to stick to a plan motivation wise and was intrigued by keto because I know low carb has worked well in the past.
Low carb isn't even high protein, it's high fat.I'm about five days in now and have the initial five pound water weight loss; just trying to stick with low carb, count calories, high protein, exercise in some form or fashion everyday even if I can't get a whole hour in.
Don't expect life to be on even keel for more than a few minutes at a timeI got stuck in a rut and hate to use life circumstances as a cop out, but I went through a divorce (after 22 years), my company was sold and subsequently closed (worked there 20 years), moved twice and changed jobs twice in two years, so crazy times, including a nasty custody battle, restraining order, you name it. I'm more on an even keel now and hoping I can motivate myself to have a normal healthy lifestyle again.
If you need "motivation" for what you're doing, it's not a lifestyle, it's just another diet.2 -
So it's not that plan that helps you lose weight but the one that helps you lose weight and keep it off that is important. Honestly, it seems you are looking to a diet, rather than a method of eating that can be sustainable. You honestly don't need to subscribe to a particular diet (I certainly don't), especially considering you have tried a lot and all have had regain issues.
So why not just play around with foods/macro combinations to figure out what satiates. Also, if you can't eat a lot of fat, than keto is not for you. Personally, I concentrate on adequate protien and fiber. And then I eat foods that will fill be up; I also incorporate refeeds (eating at maintenance for two days straight).
This^ all the way. Based on your original post, you pick a diet, lose weight. But you never learn how to eat for maintenance. So you regain and start the cycle over again. All you need to lose is a calorie deficit (absent and medical issues, which you say you are).
Keto will work. Low carb will work. High carb will work. Anything that keeps you in deficit will work. But what way of eating can you keep doing after you lose the weight to keep it off? And how will you develop that skill by doing a "diet" and then going back to the same old way of eating that puts on the lbs?2 -
I agree with others that you know what works, now it is just a matter of sticking to it for good. if you use a specific diet as a weight loss tool but then go back to what made you gain weight, you know what the outcome will probably be. If a specific diet, like LCHF, helps you stick with better calorie control, you should consider staying with it.
Keto and a low carb "clean eating" (Tosca Reno's books) are the only diets that have worked for me to lose weight. As soon as I leave those diets I start to regain weight, that is why I stick with keto. Some people find they can control calories fine by eating whatever they want so special diets are not needed by them. If you are not good at moderation in everything, you may want to commit to some specific diet (loosely) for the foreseeable future.
Good luck. 1
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