can i build muscle on a calorie deficit?

psuLemon · October 2017

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

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psuLemon wrote: »

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

CWShultz27105 wrote: »

A recomp is a "mixing" of a cut (to lower the body fat to a level that would then support a bulk) and a bulk (where you add muscle and body fat). It is slower but it likely spares you the "pleasure" of being hangry for the better part of your cut. You just have to figure out your maintenance caloric intake (likely using a calculator - which is only the starting point) and then playing to find YOUR number.

And, you are most welcome.

how is it a mixing? if you are eating at maintenance you wont gain fat in a recomp if you do you are in a slight surplus. recomp you eat maintenance calories to lose fat and gain some muscle. a bulk you gain fat along with muscle and a cut you lose fat and may or may not gain muscle depending on several factors including genes.

Technically, during a recomp, you will naturally have days in a surplus and days in a cut. It just so happens overtime, you won't have a net gain or loss impact.

I get that but it evens out and you should not gain fat correct?

Correct.

LiftHeavyThings27105 · October 2017

Okay.....by my use of the term "mixing" I meant, naturally, that you are combining the two different and separate concepts - cutting first and then bulking - into one time frame.

sijomial · October 2017

CWShultz27105 wrote: »

A recomp is a "mixing" of a cut (to lower the body fat to a level that would then support a bulk) and a bulk (where you add muscle and body fat). It is slower but it likely spares you the "pleasure" of being hangry for the better part of your cut. You just have to figure out your maintenance caloric intake (likely using a calculator - which is only the starting point) and then playing to find YOUR number.

And, you are most welcome.

No it's not "mixing". It's losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time.
It's also happens in a range either side of maintenance.

Nothing remotely complex or needing anything beyond a decent training program and an adequate diet.

tlanger251 · October 2017

i love that you guys are still posting about this.. I just keep learning more and more. going off keto has been kind of a flop. I cut my fat, and upped my carbs.. but finding it difficult to eat over 50-80g carbs.this recipe = low energy. if anyone wants to add me to be able to view/critique my diet, please do.. i'll trade you for love life or parenting advice or something haha... i have been eating more calories..but that is hard too. i've been low energy and not feelings like cooking which is some kinda catch 22..

ps. how many days a week do i have to lift to recomp?? let me guess.. it depends on the age/weight/height/bf/current everything specific to the individual..

tlanger251 · October 2017

psuLemon wrote: »

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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

tlanger251 wrote: »

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

tlanger251 wrote: »

CWShultz27105 wrote: »

So, I might chime in......

There are a couple of concepts involved here.

First and foremost, and I am very much simplifying things, it is "essentially" Calories In vs. Calories Out. So, you have to consume the number of Calories that matches your goal.

Generally speaking, when you want to "bulk" you need to be in a Caloric Surplus. Bulking is lifting heavy and often to gain muscle and strength and eating such that you feed the machine (translation - you are eating a lot of carbs, generally speaking). You are typically lifting heavy (so, think 5 x 5 or 8 x 3 or similar) and your intensity is high (read: you are lifting at weights closer to your 1 Rep Max). You will also gain some body fat along this path. You typically want to bulk when you have lower body fat (typically, if we were to put numbers to this, 13% for dudes and 20% for the ladies.....roughly.....very very roughly). To put it the other way, if you have higher body fat and are considering a bulk then you might consider doing some sort of cut before otherwise you would not necessarily be happy with the results (read: have more body fat at the end than you might like).

Generally speaking, when you want to "cut" you need to be in a Caloric Deficit. Generally speaking, you need to know your maintenance Caloric intake for that. You then - depending on your goal - reduce that number. So, generally you need to consume 500 Calories a day (or, 3,500 Calories a week) under your maintenance total to loose 1 lbs in that week. You might train heavy and have a high intensity but those two things subside - generally speaking - as you progress into your cut. Your carb intake is going to - generally speaking - be lower in a cut (and your protein is likely going to be a tad bit higher than usual) so training heavy and with intensity becomes a challenge.

A recomp is when you eat at your Maintenance Number but lift heavy. Well, likely heavy for one of the training sessions and then maybe more "hypertrophy" for the other training session that week (assuming that you are doing a body part twice a week....which may or may not be accurate).

If you are "skinny fat" then it might not be a bad idea to do a recomp.

Essentially, when you do a recomp you are doing - at the risk of sounding like a mart kitten - a recomp. You are redistributing your body....adding some muscle and loosing some body fat. Your weight might not change, but your body will look different and your clothes will fit slightly differently. Roughly.....

Does this make sense?

yes, thank you! I want to do a recomp.. didn't know the name.. I think my body fat is around 25%

get a dexa scan or hydrostatic weight thing to see how much body fat you have. it may be lower than you think but it may not be.those things are more accurate than other ways(like calipers and so on)

since I've never been in shape, is it really a "recomp" or should it just be "comp."

lol its called a recomp which means recomposition. trust me you will like the results,

And as a noob, they are a prime candidate.

what does prime candidate mean? !!

sijomial · October 2017

How many days depends on the program you choose and the program you chose depends on your goal(s) and training status (how many years training solidly).

However, most beginner programs tend to be 3 days a week full body workouts centred on the big compound lifts to give you a nice balance of working your whole body and recovery periods.

For most of my adult life my rule of thumb has been 1 day a week = loss of strength, 2 days = strength/muscle maintenance or glacial progress, 3 days = good progress.
(Now I'm an old fart 3 days a week = glacial progress though!

psuLemon · October 2017

tlanger251 wrote: »

show previous quotes

psuLemon wrote: »

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

tlanger251 wrote: »

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

tlanger251 wrote: »

CWShultz27105 wrote: »

So, I might chime in......

There are a couple of concepts involved here.

First and foremost, and I am very much simplifying things, it is "essentially" Calories In vs. Calories Out. So, you have to consume the number of Calories that matches your goal.

Generally speaking, when you want to "bulk" you need to be in a Caloric Surplus. Bulking is lifting heavy and often to gain muscle and strength and eating such that you feed the machine (translation - you are eating a lot of carbs, generally speaking). You are typically lifting heavy (so, think 5 x 5 or 8 x 3 or similar) and your intensity is high (read: you are lifting at weights closer to your 1 Rep Max). You will also gain some body fat along this path. You typically want to bulk when you have lower body fat (typically, if we were to put numbers to this, 13% for dudes and 20% for the ladies.....roughly.....very very roughly). To put it the other way, if you have higher body fat and are considering a bulk then you might consider doing some sort of cut before otherwise you would not necessarily be happy with the results (read: have more body fat at the end than you might like).

Generally speaking, when you want to "cut" you need to be in a Caloric Deficit. Generally speaking, you need to know your maintenance Caloric intake for that. You then - depending on your goal - reduce that number. So, generally you need to consume 500 Calories a day (or, 3,500 Calories a week) under your maintenance total to loose 1 lbs in that week. You might train heavy and have a high intensity but those two things subside - generally speaking - as you progress into your cut. Your carb intake is going to - generally speaking - be lower in a cut (and your protein is likely going to be a tad bit higher than usual) so training heavy and with intensity becomes a challenge.

A recomp is when you eat at your Maintenance Number but lift heavy. Well, likely heavy for one of the training sessions and then maybe more "hypertrophy" for the other training session that week (assuming that you are doing a body part twice a week....which may or may not be accurate).

If you are "skinny fat" then it might not be a bad idea to do a recomp.

Essentially, when you do a recomp you are doing - at the risk of sounding like a mart kitten - a recomp. You are redistributing your body....adding some muscle and loosing some body fat. Your weight might not change, but your body will look different and your clothes will fit slightly differently. Roughly.....

Does this make sense?

yes, thank you! I want to do a recomp.. didn't know the name.. I think my body fat is around 25%

get a dexa scan or hydrostatic weight thing to see how much body fat you have. it may be lower than you think but it may not be.those things are more accurate than other ways(like calipers and so on)

since I've never been in shape, is it really a "recomp" or should it just be "comp."

lol its called a recomp which means recomposition. trust me you will like the results,

And as a noob, they are a prime candidate.

what does prime candidate mean? !!

Prime candidate to gain muscle. The less trained a person is, the more likely their body will respond to a given stimulus. So it is not uncommon for a person new to lifting to experience noob gains and easily gain a few lbs of muscle. So doing a recomp while being a new lifter is a lot easier than recomping after 4+ years of lifting experience.

LiftHeavyThings27105 · October 2017

@sijomial - exactly, "mixing".

Everyone seems to be taking issue with that word. Concept is clear. You are doing both a cut and a bulk at the same time. In other words, you are not doing a cut and you are not doing a bulk. Or, presented in another light, you are gaining the rewards of the bulk (bigger and stronger) without the 'side-effect' (body fat). In yet another light, you are not experiencing the potentially unpleasant effects of either (with the bulk you have to eat a lot....which is an issue for some folks....and this *WILL* lead to body fat gains....and with the cut you are eating in a strong caloric deficit....which is really tough on people....and they tend to get hangry....). The recomp is a slow yet effective way to "mix" the good parts of both and to avoid (well, 'avoid' might be too strong a word....mitigate might be a better word) the bad parts of both.

No matter how you slice it, we are "mixing" the two usually very separate and distinct concepts and focuses - which are usually done a different and distinct times - into one focus. We could go round and round and round and round with the word "mixing" but the concept is clear.

Anyway, we are both saying the same thing.

pinzgauer · October 2017

People are loving this thread. Allow me to join

I was in a similar situation: weight was ok-ish, but I had too much of the "wrong weight", i.e. fat. I challenged myself to the following: work out (mainly lifting weights) and eat well (slightly calorie deficient initially) while maintaining my weight. I didn't know the word "recomping" back then

In the graph below you can see measurements taken at 4 different points in time. (All mass units in kg)

Results/Insights:
1.) After half a year I weighed exactly the same (actually, about 2lb more), but looked completely different.
2.) Body fat mass was reduced by 50%(!), and the weight I had lost in fat was replaced with fat-free mass (about half of it being muscle mass).
3.) It requires more patience because changes in the mirror are more difficult to notice and slower than changes on the scale.

As far as nutrition, everyone has their own theory, preference and health factors to consider (e.g. insulin resistance, blood pressure, cholesterol, allergies etc.). I tend to do a bit better with more protein. Most importantly, learn to listen to your body and see what works well for you personally.

(side note: body composition was measured with a professional bioelectrical impedance analysis scale at my local gym. There is a margin of error there. As with body fat calipers, it's advisable to use the tool to measure progress ("things are moving in the right direction"), rather than absolute values ("this is my body fat %")

CharlieBeansmomTracey · October 2017

pinzgauer wrote: »

People are loving this thread. Allow me to join

I was in a similar situation: weight was ok-ish, but I had too much of the "wrong weight", i.e. fat. I challenged myself to the following: work out (mainly lifting weights) and eat well (slightly calorie deficient initially) while maintaining my weight. I didn't know the word "recomping" back then In the graph below you can see measurements taken at 4 different points in time. (All mass units in kg)

Results/Insights:
1.) After half a year I weighed exactly the same (actually, about 2lb more), but looked completely different.
2.) Body fat mass was reduced by 50%(!), and the weight I had lost in fat was replaced with fat-free mass (about half of it being muscle mass).
3.) It requires more patience because changes in the mirror are more difficult to notice and slower than changes on the scale.

As far as nutrition, everyone has their own theory, preference and health factors to consider (e.g. insulin resistance, blood pressure, cholesterol, allergies etc.). I tend to do a bit better with more protein. Most importantly, learn to listen to your body and see what works well for you personally.

(side note: body composition was measured with a professional bioelectrical impedance analysis scale at my local gym. There is a margin of error there. As with body fat calipers, it's advisable to use the tool to measure progress ("things are moving in the right direction"), rather than absolute values ("this is my body fat %")

but you are male so your results will most likely be different compared to a female. you can get down to lower fat percentages where a woman should not get down too low. you also have more testosterone than a female so the gain will probably be quicker and the fat loss possibly a little faster compared to a female due to having more lean mass than a female

DocRootCanal · October 2017

Look at Jeff Cavaliere’s video.

https://youtu.be/Bz3AG-oCXTE. You need to be in nitrogen surplus if you want to gain muscle and calorie deficit to lose fat.

heybales · October 2017

Hate to see that he did what so many others do.

Referenced what the study likely said - gained Lean Body Mass.

But then he let slip the words later - lean muscle mass.

Not the same thing. Creatine would have increased LBM without even lifting - water weight.

Even his ad at the end playing into current incorrect usage - 90 days to 100% lean muscle - huh?

pinzgauer · October 2017

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

but you are male so your results will most likely be different compared to a female. you can get down to lower fat percentages where a woman should not get down too low. you also have more testosterone than a female so the gain will probably be quicker and the fat loss possibly a little faster compared to a female due to having more lean mass than a female

Yes, that's correct - there would definitely be gender differences. I guess my point was that it's possible to lose fat and gain muscle mass at the same time (no matter if it's going from 30%bf to 27%bf or from 15%bf to 12% bf)

CoachJen71 · October 2017

mmapags wrote: »

An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/

Yep. There's a reason why I grab carbs before making ascents while hiking. "Fire hose" for the win!

mjwarbeck · November 2017

Yes you can...but it isn't easy.

Moonshot54 · November 2017

No.

psuLemon · November 2017

Moonshot54 wrote: »

No.

Wrong.

jleitsfisch · November 2017

MKEgal wrote: »

To lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn.
To gain muscle, eat slightly more calories than you burn, with a higher percentage of them coming from protein, and repeatedly lift / put down heavy things. Adjust how many extra calories you're eating, as well as the % from protein, until you start getting the results you want.
Those goals are contradictory.
(And to be healthy, eat a wide variety of foods from various sources.)

Just get into IF and you wont have to worry about calories or anyhing like that - its perfect for bodybuilding, high protien, high fat, low carbs...

trigden1991 · November 2017

jleitsfisch wrote: »

show previous quotes

MKEgal wrote: »

To lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn.
To gain muscle, eat slightly more calories than you burn, with a higher percentage of them coming from protein, and repeatedly lift / put down heavy things. Adjust how many extra calories you're eating, as well as the % from protein, until you start getting the results you want.
Those goals are contradictory.
(And to be healthy, eat a wide variety of foods from various sources.)

Just get into IF and you wont have to worry about calories or anyhing like that - its perfect for bodybuilding, high protien, high fat, low carbs...

Brilliant. Nothing in this statement is factual, or correct.

mmapags · November 2017

trigden1991 wrote: »

show previous quotes

jleitsfisch wrote: »

MKEgal wrote: »

To lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn.
To gain muscle, eat slightly more calories than you burn, with a higher percentage of them coming from protein, and repeatedly lift / put down heavy things. Adjust how many extra calories you're eating, as well as the % from protein, until you start getting the results you want.
Those goals are contradictory.
(And to be healthy, eat a wide variety of foods from various sources.)

Just get into IF and you wont have to worry about calories or anyhing like that - its perfect for bodybuilding, high protien, high fat, low carbs...

Brilliant. Nothing in this statement is factual, or correct.

Lol, you beat me to it! I read it and it was like "whaaaaah??"

RivenV · November 2017

jleitsfisch wrote: »

show previous quotes

MKEgal wrote: »

To lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn.
To gain muscle, eat slightly more calories than you burn, with a higher percentage of them coming from protein, and repeatedly lift / put down heavy things. Adjust how many extra calories you're eating, as well as the % from protein, until you start getting the results you want.
Those goals are contradictory.
(And to be healthy, eat a wide variety of foods from various sources.)

Just get into IF and you wont have to worry about calories or anyhing like that - its perfect for bodybuilding, high protien, high fat, low carbs...

Strong first post.

psuLemon · November 2017

jleitsfisch wrote: »

show previous quotes

MKEgal wrote: »

To lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn.
To gain muscle, eat slightly more calories than you burn, with a higher percentage of them coming from protein, and repeatedly lift / put down heavy things. Adjust how many extra calories you're eating, as well as the % from protein, until you start getting the results you want.
Those goals are contradictory.
(And to be healthy, eat a wide variety of foods from various sources.)

Just get into IF and you wont have to worry about calories or anyhing like that - its perfect for bodybuilding, high protien, high fat, low carbs...

IF is a meal timing thing. It has nothing to do with macro split. It certainly isn't perfect for bodybuilding. It may be perfect for someones dietary preference though.

tlanger251 · December 2017

psuLemon wrote: »

show previous quotes

jleitsfisch wrote: »

MKEgal wrote: »

To lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn.
To gain muscle, eat slightly more calories than you burn, with a higher percentage of them coming from protein, and repeatedly lift / put down heavy things. Adjust how many extra calories you're eating, as well as the % from protein, until you start getting the results you want.
Those goals are contradictory.
(And to be healthy, eat a wide variety of foods from various sources.)

Just get into IF and you wont have to worry about calories or anyhing like that - its perfect for bodybuilding, high protien, high fat, low carbs...

IF is a meal timing thing. It has nothing to do with macro split. It certainly isn't perfect for bodybuilding. It may be perfect for someones dietary preference though.

I forgot about IF, thanks. it's a good tool.

I just proved that unfortunately, I cannot eat carbs AND eat less calories than I burn. I have an addiction to carbs. I went off Keto for two months (gained 6 pounds) and going back on today. Unfortunately this means that it will once again be hard to eat from a wide variety of food sources, but it's better than how I feel now. I never want to go off Keto again. Yes, I want muscle, and yes, I need to do a recomp, and yes it will be harder, and yes I will never be an athlete, but I don't care about athletic performance or being super toned. my new goal is to be somewhat toned, someday. As long as I can get off carbs again, everything will be okay.

jaciejaciexoxo · December 2017

TavistockToad wrote: »

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xaos100 wrote: »

If you are a beginner with alot of extra fat yes but not with walking yoga rock climbing

OP is 5ft4 and 117lbs so she doesn't have a lot of extra fat....

Weight has nothing to do with fat alone. A person can be 150 lbs of muscle, 150 lbs mostly fat, or a combo. Unless you see her you can't say if she does or doesn't have fat deposits based on a number on the scale.

jaciejaciexoxo · December 2017

tlanger251 wrote: »

I've been doing keto for over six months and i've lost 26 pounds but I did not work out so even though i'm 117 pounds, I still have a lot of fat (I'm 5'4"). I am really good about eating the exact amount of macros that I need, but I'm [just now] starting to work out (walking/yoga/pilates/rock climbing is my plan). Right now I eat 900-1100 calories a day. I want to lose my fat, and gain muscle. Can I continue to eat 1000 calories a day and build muscle? I've done a lot of research and the information is very contradictory. The calories I need to maintain is around 1300.00

I'm small like you & Contrary to what some people say, growing while eating deficit is quite possible. I've done it. Earlier this year I started glute training while eating an unintentional deficit. My glutes grew 1.5 inches in no time. I just ate most of my calories after my workout which was late evening. If you workout late in the day and eat pretty much all your calories for dinner and immediately go to sleep it should help as well. That way your metabolism won't be as fast and will process them slower giving your body time to absorb.

It also has more to do with WHAT you eat, not how much. Processed food, saturated fats, and bad carbs contribute to fate on waists. Eating mostly protein while training other muscles pretty much starves the fat but still feeds your muscle. Limit fat intake and focus on good carbs, fiber, and high protein.

My sisters waist went from 27in with caloric deficit to 24in while she ate 2000+ calories in 1 month. She was doing lower body based HIIT and she lost ALL fat on her midsection and her weight started going to her lower body in muscle.

sardelsa · December 2017

jaciejaciexoxo wrote: »

show previous quotes

tlanger251 wrote: »

I've been doing keto for over six months and i've lost 26 pounds but I did not work out so even though i'm 117 pounds, I still have a lot of fat (I'm 5'4"). I am really good about eating the exact amount of macros that I need, but I'm [just now] starting to work out (walking/yoga/pilates/rock climbing is my plan). Right now I eat 900-1100 calories a day. I want to lose my fat, and gain muscle. Can I continue to eat 1000 calories a day and build muscle? I've done a lot of research and the information is very contradictory. The calories I need to maintain is around 1300.00

I'm small like you & Contrary to what some people say, growing while eating deficit is quite possible. I've done it. Earlier this year I started glute training while eating an unintentional deficit. My glutes grew 1.5 inches in no time. I just ate most of my calories after my workout which was late evening. If you workout late in the day and eat pretty much all your calories for dinner and immediately go to sleep it should help as well. That way your metabolism won't be as fast and will process them slower giving your body time to absorb.

It also has more to do with WHAT you eat, not how much. Processed food, saturated fats, and bad carbs contribute to fate on waists. Eating mostly protein while training other muscles pretty much starves the fat but still feeds your muscle. Limit fat intake and focus on good carbs, fiber, and high protein.

My sisters waist went from 27in with caloric deficit to 24in while she ate 2000+ calories in 1 month. She was doing lower body based HIIT and she lost ALL fat on her midsection and her weight started going to her lower body in muscle.

This is unfortunately not true. Excess fat gain will mostly be caused by too high surplus and poor training, the only way a poor diet could lead to excess fat gain if it is so bad that your macros ratios are really out of line (very little protein, little nutrition etc) which could also cause very bad workout performance. Also genetics. Some people gain in their waist first, some gain in their lower half. I am a female who gains fat in the lower body more than upper.

can i build muscle on a calorie deficit?

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