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Open letter to President of American Heart Association as he recovers from a recent heart attack
Barry7879
Posts: 62 Member
Replies
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This is so ghoulish. We don't know Dr Warner's family history or other risk factors. That Dr Davis would use this to drum up publicity or make points about his theories strikes me as really inappropriate.
Heart disease *can* strike anyone. That doesn't mean that there aren't things we can do to reduce our personal risk, but for Davis to say that AHA's statement is "ridiculous" doesn't make any sense to me.16 -
as someone from outside the US I looked to see what advice you Heart Association is advocating. May be we should consider current scientific knowledge to improve how we care for ourselves.
There is so much more to heart conditions than just eat this and don't eat fat or have this medical intervention. I have been taken to task for bringing up thyroid conditions before but here again is a situation where thyroid function can have devastating impacts regardless of the person concerned being either hyper or hypo or undiagnosed. There are 300 symptoms related to thyroid function! Coronary/repertory issues are only one complicated interrelated aspect.
A thyroid gland is placed discretely between other endocrine glands, it is where an excessive or decreased output from any of those other glands is exposed. The purpose of the thyroid is to ensure the equilibrium of all hormones. My fundamental gripe is, medical professions do not see the need to establish the status of all endocrine glands before simply disregarding or blaming the thyroid, which, if its owner is following much current medical advice is keeping it and our bodies, short of one of its essential building blocs needed for all its job, fat! I do not mean to flood the body with fat but to provide it with enough to function properly so it can make essential hormones.
The thyroid gland produces three hormones, I only recently became aware of calcitonin, this is responsible for controlling/controlling the potassium, calcium and salt levels in a body which contribute to many a bodies conditions. I suggest strongly that where the thyroid is not producing t4 and t3 it is also failing with regard to calcitonin.
As someone who has researched why my father had his heart condition, I believe its time society recognised many hormones are made from fats. Also there are circumstances in which if the body does not have sufficient cholesterol it can make its own given the right ingredients from a good diet because cholesterol also has essential uses. I know many health problems occur where endocrine imbalances are not researched effectively in the patient. This was the situation surrounding my father.
I believe we should continually reassess past scientific information against more current studies to ensure we actually move forward in the care we give our populations so we in the general public all receive the best advice possible.
I feel for any family who has a person struck by any health condition, they cause so much emotional pain for the patient and family. I truly hope before too long we will have open minds to current scientific findings.8 -
Why do you keep posting links but never actually discuss what is in those links?12 -
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Just to sit back and wait for the reactions. There's a word for that.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »
Why do you keep posting links but never actually discuss what is in those links?
Well it certainly doesn't create a debate.
Although maybe it does as we are now debating why the OP just wants reactions
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janejellyroll wrote: »This is so ghoulish. We don't know Dr Warner's family history or other risk factors. That Dr Davis would use this to drum up publicity or make points about his theories strikes me as really inappropriate.
Heart disease *can* strike anyone. That doesn't mean that there aren't things we can do to reduce our personal risk, but for Davis to say that AHA's statement is "ridiculous" doesn't make any sense to me.
Yep, all of this.
OP, if you want to debate the evidence as to what to do to minimize the risk of heart disease, there are ways to do that. Like maybe start a debate thread called "what can you do to minimize the risk of heart disease."3 -
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Awesome! Somebody had a heart attack! What a great opportunity to push diet woo!!16
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NorthCascades wrote: »Awesome! Somebody had a heart attack! What a great opportunity to push diet woo!!
And if I were to hazard a guess (since I refuse to click a link to a "wheat belly" blog), it's a pro-keto propaganda piece.10 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »
Just to sit back and wait for the reactions. There's a word for that.RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »
Why do you keep posting links but never actually discuss what is in those links?
Well it certainly doesn't create a debate.
Although maybe it does as we are now debating why the OP just wants reactions
Not enough cuddles as a child?6 -
@janejellyroll summed this up nicely. It's appallingly gauche of Davis to use this as an opportunity to push his agenda. An agenda which has no proof, I might add. He's making baseless claims.
And then, to further add that Tim Russert might still be alive? Beyond the pale.8 -
A few days ago I learned that getting a coronary calcium score was only a $100 test.
@AnvilHead, there was one sentence which belonged on a 'wheatbelly' site, and in that it was a denunciation of AHA recommendations. The rest of the open letter was a quite thorough summary of current best science about cardiovascular well-being.3 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »A few days ago I learned that getting a coronary calcium score was only a $100 test.
@AnvilHead, there was one sentence which belonged on a 'wheatbelly' site, and in that it was a denunciation of AHA recommendations. The rest of the open letter was a quite thorough summary of current best science about cardiovascular well-being.
No, he goes beyond any "best science" with this nonsense:But there are many non-drug strategies to identify, then correct, such causes: Removal of all dietary factors that provoke formation of small LDL particles, insulin resistance, and glycation; restoration of vitamin D to a 25-hydroxy vitamin D level of 60-70 ng/ml that exerts anti-inflammatory effects such as reduction of abnormal activation of matrix metalloproteinase; a dose of omega-3 fatty acids sufficient to generate an RBC omega-3 index of 10% or greater associated with dramatic reduction in cardiovascular events, reduction in small LDL, and subdued postprandial atherogenic lipoprotein patterns; restoration of ideal thyroid status, given the extravagant increase in risk with TSH values even in the high “normal” range; cultivation of healthy bowel flora to correct the common dysbiosis caused by sugar consumption, chlorinated water, antibiotic exposure, pesticide/herbicide exposure, and common drugs such as H2-blockers and PPIs for acid reflux.
Additionally, his idea on the dietary interventions needed don't wash with an interesting tidbit that niggles: Otzi the iceman had CAD.4 -
Otzi the iceman had CAD, but he didn't have vodka.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »This is so ghoulish. We don't know Dr Warner's family history or other risk factors. That Dr Davis would use this to drum up publicity or make points about his theories strikes me as really inappropriate.
Heart disease *can* strike anyone. That doesn't mean that there aren't things we can do to reduce our personal risk, but for Davis to say that AHA's statement is "ridiculous" doesn't make any sense to me.
Agree 100%!!
The guy that started the jogging craze back in the day and made a pretty penny with his books touting exercise as the way to stay healthy died of a heart attack while jogging. That does not mean jogging won't lower your risk for heart disease.4 -
I'm not a troll. There seems to be a rigorous debate at the highest levels about nutrition, CVD, diabetes and I'm interested in this conversation.
I don't have an opinion. I just fly large airplanes for a living so I don't know enough to have one. There seem to be a growing number of doctors and scientists who think CVD is related to hyperinsulinemia rather than eating saturated fat. It's a question that deserves rigorous study and debate.
In aviation we are a pioneering profession in terms of always being ready to re-evaluate mental models, risk factors and avoiding shutting down contrarian opinions. These are some of the factors that have led to major improvements in safety that the medical field is now emulating. It's called CRM if anyone is interested.
But I do wonder why so many resort to ad-hominen attacks and get so emotional in an area that's supposedly a question of science not religion or politics.
What happened to "play to the ball not the man"?22 -
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Claiming the arguments as coming from "the highest levels" is an "appeal to authority". We can't have discussions with said persons from "the highest levels", so what do you think, and why? I can discuss with you.6
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I'm not a troll. There seems to be a rigorous debate at the highest levels about nutrition, CVD, diabetes and I'm interested in this conversation.
I don't have an opinion. I just fly large airplanes for a living so I don't know enough to have one. There seem to be a growing number of doctors and scientists who think CVD is related to hyperinsulinemia rather than eating saturated fat. It's a question that deserves rigorous study and debate.
In aviation we are a pioneering profession in terms of always being ready to re-evaluate mental models, risk factors and avoiding shutting down contrarian opinions. These are some of the factors that have led to major improvements in safety that the medical field is now emulating. It's called CRM if anyone is interested.
But I do wonder why so many resort to ad-hominen attacks and get so emotional in an area that's supposedly a question of science not religion or politics.
What happened to "play to the ball not the man"?
And think the point is that you're not playing either...5 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »I'm not a troll. There seems to be a rigorous debate at the highest levels about nutrition, CVD, diabetes and I'm interested in this conversation.
I don't have an opinion. I just fly large airplanes for a living so I don't know enough to have one. There seem to be a growing number of doctors and scientists who think CVD is related to hyperinsulinemia rather than eating saturated fat. It's a question that deserves rigorous study and debate.
In aviation we are a pioneering profession in terms of always being ready to re-evaluate mental models, risk factors and avoiding shutting down contrarian opinions. These are some of the factors that have led to major improvements in safety that the medical field is now emulating. It's called CRM if anyone is interested.
But I do wonder why so many resort to ad-hominen attacks and get so emotional in an area that's supposedly a question of science not religion or politics.
What happened to "play to the ball not the man"?
And think the point is that you're not playing either...
Place a ball on the street then go home. Wonder why people ask you why you put a ball down.13 -
stevencloser wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I'm not a troll. There seems to be a rigorous debate at the highest levels about nutrition, CVD, diabetes and I'm interested in this conversation.
I don't have an opinion. I just fly large airplanes for a living so I don't know enough to have one. There seem to be a growing number of doctors and scientists who think CVD is related to hyperinsulinemia rather than eating saturated fat. It's a question that deserves rigorous study and debate.
In aviation we are a pioneering profession in terms of always being ready to re-evaluate mental models, risk factors and avoiding shutting down contrarian opinions. These are some of the factors that have led to major improvements in safety that the medical field is now emulating. It's called CRM if anyone is interested.
But I do wonder why so many resort to ad-hominen attacks and get so emotional in an area that's supposedly a question of science not religion or politics.
What happened to "play to the ball not the man"?
And think the point is that you're not playing either...
Place a ball on the street then go home. Wonder why people ask you why you put a ball down.
Good analogy. OP is like a guy in the stands who tosses a ball into the crowd below and sits back to watch the fun, only to wonder why the people aren't playing the game for his entertainment.
And yeah - the premise for this letter is vile.5 -
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I'm not a troll. There seems to be a rigorous debate at the highest levels about nutrition, CVD, diabetes and I'm interested in this conversation.
I don't have an opinion. I just fly large airplanes for a living so I don't know enough to have one. There seem to be a growing number of doctors and scientists who think CVD is related to hyperinsulinemia rather than eating saturated fat. It's a question that deserves rigorous study and debate.
In aviation we are a pioneering profession in terms of always being ready to re-evaluate mental models, risk factors and avoiding shutting down contrarian opinions. These are some of the factors that have led to major improvements in safety that the medical field is now emulating. It's called CRM if anyone is interested.
But I do wonder why so many resort to ad-hominen attacks and get so emotional in an area that's supposedly a question of science not religion or politics.
What happened to "play to the ball not the man"?
So if someone in your industry was piloting a plane and it crashed and you didn't know much about the cause, their flying history, or the particulars of the plane, would you consider using them as an example in a published "open letter" to get attention for your pet theories about aviation?
Dr Davis seems to be "playing the man" pretty hard here, I can't imagine having hearing my name bandied about like this when I was recovering or hearing about this if it was my husband, brother, or father in the hospital recovering.12 -
Could always compromise and play with men's balls instead.
Is it just me or is this analogy getting weird.13 -
That article is full of kinda truths and massive jumps in reaching conclusions.
Riskfactors for coronary artery disease are just that. Risk factors.
Some, like non familial cholesterol issues, obesity, smoking and the oxidative/inflammatory effects of each, some kinds of hypertension etc are modifiable.
Others, like age, gender, familial hypercholestemia, some types of hypertension, genetic predisposition, diabetes, clotting disorders etc etc are not.
This article is some guys muddied science with a dash of pseudoscience opinion.
I will concede though, there is some evidence that statins lower your cholesterol but not your risk of heart attack, necessarily. There is still s greater base of evidence that they help though, thus they are part of the goldstandard pharmaceutical management of coronary artery disease.
...........
I write this from the perspective of the nurse that deploys the stents in the blocked arteries of people having heart attacks.4 -
That article is full of kinda truths and massive jumps in reaching conclusions.
Riskfactors for coronary artery disease are just that. Risk factors.
Some, like non familial cholesterol issues, obesity, smoking and the oxidative/inflammatory effects of each, some kinds of hypertension etc are modifiable.
Others, like age, gender, familial hypercholestemia, some types of hypertension, genetic predisposition, diabetes, clotting disorders etc etc are not.
This article is some guys muddied science with a dash of pseudoscience opinion.
I will concede though, there is some evidence that statins lower your cholesterol but not your risk of heart attack, necessarily. There is still s greater base of evidence that they help though, thus they are part of the goldstandard pharmaceutical management of coronary artery disease.
...........
I write this from the perspective of the nurse that deploys the stents in the blocked arteries of people having heart attacks.
Thanks for your thoughts. What do you think about calcium scoring MRIs as in his point 3? If they are as conclusive as the author states, I don't understand why the AHA would resist them?1 -
https://www.heart.org/idc/groups/heart-public/@wcm/@adv/documents/downloadable/ucm_437479.pdf
AHA explanation of the position that they are taking.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/high-tech-heart-tests-and-procedures-you-may-not-need-and-why
Discussion of why it does not make sense to require various tests for asymptomatic adults (this is similar to the discussions over when to start recommending people get routine mammograms or prostate checks).
http://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2014/05/20/14/40/cover-story-coronary-artery-calcium
Discussion of the issue.3 -
There's a story about Jim Fixx, a running guru, who died at age 52 of a heart attack (1984).
Nathan Pritkin, diet and fitness guru, died of leukemia (1985). He died with excellent cardiovascular health however.
I admit to casting these messages in doubt because of the cause of death.0
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