What your opinion on the keto diet?
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People with certain conditions are likely to respond well to a keto diet and this is an advantage for this way of eating.
Based on results enjoyed by close relatives in the past, I don't doubt that I would respond well to it too, and even more so when I was 280lb and tipping into type 2 (Dr: "come back in six months and if your results are the same we will start you on medication" Solution! Keep gaining weight and don't show up till 6 months and 40lbs down... four years later)
So Keto can be effective.
BUT, I've just lived around too many people who tried Atkins on and off for multiple years. All of them with great results and enthusiasm while "on".
Something happened to knock them off. Greater and greater reluctance to go back on while back-sliding followed. Then the inevitable happened and it was all quietly buried till a return to previous weight, or higher, and the next round of weight loss a few years later. Again, and again, and again.
So my unrelenting focus from day one was to pick "solutions" I think I can follow long term and which are "low barrier" for me to go back to whenever I slip.
Low barrier so that I do not have an excuse for waiting for TOMORROW to get back on track.
Anytime the words "I'll get back on track tomorrow" are uttered, the safe answer is "I am going to get back on track as of the next decision point I am faced with. i.e. right **kitten** now!"
And the less barriers there are to doing that, the more likely I am to follow through.
Keto has barriers.
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You want my opinion?
I think it needlessly complicates CICO for the vast majority of people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, some people who've been doing it a short time SAY they can do it for life. Funny how there's just a handful who've done it barely 2 years (see my first point).
/IMHO
This could be. I have only been doing it for about 14 months. I am not only doing it for weight loss. I am a T2D, and it keeps my glucose levels low. I brought my A1C down to 5.5, and my doctor reduced my metformin dose. Lipid panels improved and I am off my statin. BP is teetering on the edge of my doctor taking me off my BP med. Liver enzymes are at the low end of the normal range after 20 years of being too high. It has worked well for me. So far it has looked pretty sustainable, and the results have encouraged me to stick with it. Maybe all that will change, but I don't think so.
Most of the long term keto/LC folks on MFP are in the low carb forum.
Congrats on the improved health stats! You didn’t mention if you lost weight. Did keto help you maintain enough of a calorie deficit to lose weight?
ETA: nm—just saw your later post about the 105
Pounds lost. Again, congrats. While keto is obviously the way for you to lose weight, how do you know if it was the diet or weight loss that contributes to your improved health? If you had done keto and maintained your weight, do you think your health markers would have improved like they did with your weight loss?
This is the reason I always emphasize the calorie deficit as being key for weight loss and not how I achieved it. Because that will vary for each person. there’s nothing magical about the food combinations I eat or the supplements I take.1 -
Congrats on the improved health stats! You didn’t mention if you lost weight. Did keto help you maintain enough of a calorie deficit to lose weight?
I lost 40 lbs in 10 months counting calories with a diet composed of about 50% carbs, and I was hungry all the time. I switched to LC 14 months ago and have lost another 65 lbs. For me, the appetite went way down when I cut the carbs, and it was very easy to maintain a caloric deficit. Energy and sense of well-being have been excellent for me with the lower carbs.
Initially I was at 50 carb grams, but my glucose readings were better on the days I was well under on the carbs. I cut the carbs to 20 to see if it made a significant difference with the glucose over time, and it did. I have been keto for about 14 months, and I am very happy with the diet. Hunger is well controlled for me. I enjoy the foods I am eating, and it seems pretty natural.
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While keto is obviously the way for you to lose weight, how do you know if it was the diet or weight loss that contributes to your improved health? If you had done keto and maintained your weight, do you think your health markers would have improved like they did with your weight loss?
This is the reason I always emphasize the calorie deficit as being key for weight loss and not how I achieved it. Because that will vary for each person. there’s nothing magical about the food combinations I eat or the supplements I take.
I think we were posting at the same time. The glucose responded to the keto 65 lbs ago. That one is easy.
I suspect the cholesterol is a combination of the keto and the wieght loss, but there are too many variables.
Who knows with the liver enzymes? It is probably a combination, although I lost weight 20 years ago with exercise and a high carb diet, and the enzymes were first high then.
The BP is probably a function of the weight loss. That has come down slowly as I have lost weight.
Throughout the process from calorie counting to keto, I was trying to determine my caloric needs and stay under that number by 500 calories a day. I am trying to lose a pound a week and have been more or less on target. For me, I think the keto diet has made that easier. I would do it just for the improved glucose readings if I were not losing weight with it too. It is my hope to get completely off the metformin and control the glucose with diet. I intend to stick with the keto when I hit my goal weight for that reason.
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My opinion:
There seems to be a lot of peer reviewed research that supports the idea that eating a lot of fruits and vegetables and limiting dairy and meat intake decreases the risk of cancer, T2 diabetes, and heart disease and the Keto diet is sort of the opposite. So personally I’m skeptical that it’s healthy in the long run.
I for sure believe you can be successful losing weight with Keto though and obesity is definitely not healthy!
So if Keto is the only way a person is able to successfully lose weight go for it! But if you can do it with more fruits and vegetables I think it’s probably better.6 -
This is my own personal experience. Last year, I tracked my blood glucose levels and blood pressure and watched my caloric intake over a 2 month period. I didn't stop eating bread or pasta, just ate less. I'm not much of a cookie/cake/ice cream eater. Carbs for me was mainly bread and pasta. My weight loss was slow despite eating at a 400 calorie deficit. My bg levels did not drop. My bp remained the same or was higher. Eventually after 2 months of that, I quit because I didn't see much difference in any aspect.
So this year, a couple of friends started the Keto woe. I was impressed with their results. But still skeptical. I finally decided to give it a try on October 1st. Within the first week, I dropped 5 pounds. I couldn't do that last year in two weeks! My blood glucose dropped down to around 120 mg/dl range. My blood pressure remained higher though.
The second week, I lost another 4 pounds. My blood glucose dropped down to an avg of 105 most mornings. My blood pressure came down to within a normal range. After a month, I had lost 16 pounds and 4 inches off my waist. Today, I am down 23 pounds. My morning bg reading is below 100, my blood pressure was 110/65. I am not hungry all the time. I don't have cravings for sugar. I had blood work done last week. Everything is within normal range. I do have a little bit higher than normal LDL. But until I see my doctor again in two weeks, I don't know if it's lower than last year. But everything else is now normal, including my HbA1c. I still have a ways to go with that, but it's no longer in the high range.
Do I miss being able to eat pasta and bread? Sure, of course. But considering that my blood sugar would hit over 200 before, I guess I prefer having healthy kidneys and not going on dialysis until they can find a donor kidney for me. I still have a long way to go before I reach a healthy BMI, but for me this time? That goal is reachable. I can see it.4 -
My opinion:
There seems to be a lot of peer reviewed research that supports the idea that eating a lot of fruits and vegetables and limiting dairy and meat intake decreases the risk of cancer, T2 diabetes, and heart disease and the Keto diet is sort of the opposite. So personally I’m skeptical that it’s healthy in the long run.
I for sure believe you can be successful losing weight with Keto though and obesity is definitely not healthy!
So if Keto is the only way a person is able to successfully lose weight go for it! But if you can do it with more fruits and vegetables I think it’s probably better.
Fruits are very high in sugar. I eat plenty of vegetables and get all the daily requirements from them. You do not NEED to eat fruit. Non-diabetics should just consider fruit a treat every now and again, like cake and ice cream. Just because they have "natural" sugar, does not mean it's better for you than any other kind of sugar.
Also, as a diabetic, my blood work has come a long way to being normal finally. Keto actually supports all that you've written above and not "sort of the opposite."5 -
I couldn't lose weight on it (in fact gained a bit) because it didn't feel satisfying physical or mentally so I ended up overeating. It also triggered depression and messed with my hormones, among other things. The food choices were mostly unappealing and the volume felt lacking. So, my opinion: it may be for some, but it's not for me. Just like any diet in the world, its efficacy depends on its sustainability.6
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TheDevastator wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »TheDevastator wrote: »I'd recommend low carbs. I like fruit too much to go full keto. Grains are unnecessary for everyday foods. Fruits, veggies, grass fed meat, eggs, cheese, fish, seafood, nuts, seeds, seaweeds, and mushrooms are most of the foods I eat. Exercise is very important as well, like walking and weightlifting.
Just to point out, no specific food is necessary for everyday foods.
I guess that's true. I'm pretty much against grains most of the time but I do eat them when traveling.
Fair enough. I eat them daily because the fiber helps satiate me and good for GI health.
Lettuce, kale, and other greens also avocados, berries, walnuts, and sunflower seeds all have fiber as well and they are very satiating especially lots of greens. They can take some time getting used to though.
I eat probably more twice the amount of non starchy vegetables as the average person out of preference, yet nothing satisfied my hunger as well as grains/starchy vegetables. Meat has to be paired with grains or potatoes for my meal to be satisfying. Eggs without bread have me rummaging the fridge an hour later. No one food is necessary, but for my personal calorie control grains are necessary (and tasty).1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I couldn't lose weight on it (in fact gained a bit) because it didn't feel satisfying physical or mentally so I ended up overeating. It also triggered depression and messed with my hormones, among other things. The food choices were mostly unappealing and the volume felt lacking. So, my opinion: it may be for some, but it's not for me. Just like any diet in the world, its efficacy depends on its sustainability.
Yes, any diet works as long as it is sustainable to the individual. For me, its keto. But it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle. I still miss bread and pasta, but I am so addicted to them, I know if I go back to eating them I'll be right back to where I was. Spaghetti squash is ok, but so not pasta! And I've yet to try keto friendly bread. I miss grapefruit but not as much as I thought I would. I still eat strawberries and other berries.
I am looking ahead. When my weight drops down to an acceptable level for me, I am going to try just eating low carb. I'll up my carbs like 10 grams a week and see how it goes. If I start to gain weight, then I'll know what my body responds to. I know I'll never be able to eat a huge plate of spaghetti with 2 helpings of bread again. A small portion of spaghetti with no bread? Maybe. But that might be a trigger and I can't go back to the black hole again.2 -
Jigglypuff00 wrote: »My opinion:
There seems to be a lot of peer reviewed research that supports the idea that eating a lot of fruits and vegetables and limiting dairy and meat intake decreases the risk of cancer, T2 diabetes, and heart disease and the Keto diet is sort of the opposite. So personally I’m skeptical that it’s healthy in the long run.
I for sure believe you can be successful losing weight with Keto though and obesity is definitely not healthy!
So if Keto is the only way a person is able to successfully lose weight go for it! But if you can do it with more fruits and vegetables I think it’s probably better.
Fruits are very high in sugar. I eat plenty of vegetables and get all the daily requirements from them. You do not NEED to eat fruit. Non-diabetics should just consider fruit a treat every now and again, like cake and ice cream. Just because they have "natural" sugar, does not mean it's better for you than any other kind of sugar.
Also, as a diabetic, my blood work has come a long way to being normal finally. Keto actually supports all that you've written above and not "sort of the opposite."
There's no evidence that non-diabetics benefit from limiting fruit. In the context of a diet where nutritional needs are met, where's the evidence that people do better when they limit fruit?
Saying that nobody *needs* to eat fruit (which is true) doesn't mean that it should only be eaten as an occasional treat.6 -
Well, there is a rise in diabetes in the past 20 years, it has nearly doubled. For sure, fruit is not the sole cause of it, but thinking that as long as you are consuming fruit you will be fine is not right. A medium apple has around 25 grams of carbs. Yes, there is fiber in that apple, but at least 19 grams of it is sugar. A banana has around 27 grams of carbs. 14 of those are sugar. An orange has 11 grams of carbs, 9 of those are sugar. A donut has an average of 25 grams of carbs, and an average of 9 grams of sugar. Going by those numbers alone, a donut appears to be the healthier choice!
I could go on and on. Fruits are delicious little packages filled with sweet goodness. But just as pre-diabetes, I wouldn't eat donuts in large quantities, I shouldn't have assumed that fruit is safe because it has "natural" sugar. There are so many healthier options to get your daily nutrition requirements in.6 -
Jigglypuff00 wrote: »My opinion:
There seems to be a lot of peer reviewed research that supports the idea that eating a lot of fruits and vegetables and limiting dairy and meat intake decreases the risk of cancer, T2 diabetes, and heart disease and the Keto diet is sort of the opposite. So personally I’m skeptical that it’s healthy in the long run.
I for sure believe you can be successful losing weight with Keto though and obesity is definitely not healthy!
So if Keto is the only way a person is able to successfully lose weight go for it! But if you can do it with more fruits and vegetables I think it’s probably better.
Fruits are very high in sugar. I eat plenty of vegetables and get all the daily requirements from them. You do not NEED to eat fruit. Non-diabetics should just consider fruit a treat every now and again, like cake and ice cream. Just because they have "natural" sugar, does not mean it's better for you than any other kind of sugar.
Also, as a diabetic, my blood work has come a long way to being normal finally. Keto actually supports all that you've written above and not "sort of the opposite."
Fruit contains many micro-nutrients as well as anti-oxidants. There is no reason to avoid fruit in an otherwise balanced diet just because it contains some sugar. To compare fruit to cake and ice cream is beyond ridiculous.9 -
Jigglypuff00 wrote: »Well, there is a rise in diabetes in the past 20 years, it has nearly doubled. For sure, fruit is not the sole cause of it, but thinking that as long as you are consuming fruit you will be fine is not right. A medium apple has around 25 grams of carbs. Yes, there is fiber in that apple, but at least 19 grams of it is sugar. A banana has around 27 grams of carbs. 14 of those are sugar. An orange has 11 grams of carbs, 9 of those are sugar. A donut has an average of 25 grams of carbs, and an average of 9 grams of sugar. Going by those numbers alone, a donut appears to be the healthier choice!
I could go on and on. Fruits are delicious little packages filled with sweet goodness. But just as pre-diabetes, I wouldn't eat donuts in large quantities, I shouldn't have assumed that fruit is safe because it has "natural" sugar. There are so many healthier options to get your daily nutrition requirements in.
If you are diabetic or pre-diabetic, watching fruit makes sense. If you are not, it is not an issue in an otherwise balanced diet. Fruit has not been a large factor in the rise in T2D in the last 20 years. Overeating has been though.7 -
Jigglypuff00 wrote: »Well, there is a rise in diabetes in the past 20 years, it has nearly doubled. For sure, fruit is not the sole cause of it, but thinking that as long as you are consuming fruit you will be fine is not right. A medium apple has around 25 grams of carbs. Yes, there is fiber in that apple, but at least 19 grams of it is sugar. A banana has around 27 grams of carbs. 14 of those are sugar. An orange has 11 grams of carbs, 9 of those are sugar. A donut has an average of 25 grams of carbs, and an average of 9 grams of sugar. Going by those numbers alone, a donut appears to be the healthier choice!
I could go on and on. Fruits are delicious little packages filled with sweet goodness. But just as pre-diabetes, I wouldn't eat donuts in large quantities, I shouldn't have assumed that fruit is safe because it has "natural" sugar. There are so many healthier options to get your daily nutrition requirements in.
My personal experience: I was just a couple of points away from being officially diagnosed with diabetes, lost weight, now my blood sugar is in the low normal range, did not reduce my carbs during the process, and ate fruits nearly daily. The increase in diabetes is not caused by fruit consumption, it's caused by more people being obese which increases the risk for diabetes.
Here is my dinner today, 97 grams of carbs in one meal, and this is typical of how I eat. My A1C is perfect
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Jigglypuff00 wrote: »Well, there is a rise in diabetes in the past 20 years, it has nearly doubled. For sure, fruit is not the sole cause of it, but thinking that as long as you are consuming fruit you will be fine is not right. A medium apple has around 25 grams of carbs. Yes, there is fiber in that apple, but at least 19 grams of it is sugar. A banana has around 27 grams of carbs. 14 of those are sugar. An orange has 11 grams of carbs, 9 of those are sugar. A donut has an average of 25 grams of carbs, and an average of 9 grams of sugar. Going by those numbers alone, a donut appears to be the healthier choice!
I could go on and on. Fruits are delicious little packages filled with sweet goodness. But just as pre-diabetes, I wouldn't eat donuts in large quantities, I shouldn't have assumed that fruit is safe because it has "natural" sugar. There are so many healthier options to get your daily nutrition requirements in.
When you say fruit is not the "sole cause" of the rise in diabetes, I'm not sure how you've determined that fruit is even *part of the cause* of the rise in diabetes. Again, what evidence are you drawing on here to determine that consumption of fruit is contributing to any health problems?
You're just rattling off numbers, but there's no evidence that fruit, or the sugar in it, is a problem in the context of a balanced diet. Yes, a banana has 14 grams of sugar. Why is that meaningful to me, a non-diabetic?
Why would grams of sugar be the only nutritional detail I should use to determine whether a banana or a donut is a better choice?11 -
My A1c was pretty perfect too. I never worried about how much carbohydrates I was consuming. Until I became diabetic. Other than potatoes, pasta & bread, my main source of carbs was fruit. I ate a lot of fruit! I love apples, bananas and oranges. Grapefruits were my favorite. I wasn't a big cake/pie/candy eater. Those were treats I reserved for special occasions. Fruits and veggies were a mainstay though. I don't think it was the veggies that pushed me over the edge into diabetes. It could've been the pasta/bread/potatoes maybe. But even those weren't consumed on a daily basis. I had fruit every day because it's healthy. An apple a day keeps the doctor away.
Well, all that sugar made me crave more sugar. Putting limits on certain foods is ok. It really is.5 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Jigglypuff00 wrote: »Well, there is a rise in diabetes in the past 20 years, it has nearly doubled. For sure, fruit is not the sole cause of it, but thinking that as long as you are consuming fruit you will be fine is not right. A medium apple has around 25 grams of carbs. Yes, there is fiber in that apple, but at least 19 grams of it is sugar. A banana has around 27 grams of carbs. 14 of those are sugar. An orange has 11 grams of carbs, 9 of those are sugar. A donut has an average of 25 grams of carbs, and an average of 9 grams of sugar. Going by those numbers alone, a donut appears to be the healthier choice!
I could go on and on. Fruits are delicious little packages filled with sweet goodness. But just as pre-diabetes, I wouldn't eat donuts in large quantities, I shouldn't have assumed that fruit is safe because it has "natural" sugar. There are so many healthier options to get your daily nutrition requirements in.
My personal experience: I was just a couple of points away from being officially diagnosed with diabetes, lost weight, now my blood sugar is in the low normal range, did not reduce my carbs during the process, and ate fruits nearly daily. The increase in diabetes is not caused by fruit consumption, it's caused by more people being obese which increases the risk for diabetes.
Here is my dinner today, 97 grams of carbs in one meal, and this is typical of how I eat. My A1C is perfect
Yep, this is my experience as well. I had 113 grams of carbohydrates in my breakfast today (mostly from beans, teff, and pomegranate seeds). I'm not worried about it because I've been eating this way for a while and I know from how I feel and my blood test results that it works well for me.
When I was overweight, my blood test results were not as good. The difference now isn't my diet (high in carbohydrates then, high in carbohydrates now), the difference is that I'm eating appropriate *quantities* of food and my body weight is now within a healthy range.3 -
Jigglypuff00 wrote: »Well, there is a rise in diabetes in the past 20 years, it has nearly doubled. For sure, fruit is not the sole cause of it, but thinking that as long as you are consuming fruit you will be fine is not right. A medium apple has around 25 grams of carbs. Yes, there is fiber in that apple, but at least 19 grams of it is sugar. A banana has around 27 grams of carbs. 14 of those are sugar. An orange has 11 grams of carbs, 9 of those are sugar. A donut has an average of 25 grams of carbs, and an average of 9 grams of sugar. Going by those numbers alone, a donut appears to be the healthier choice!
I could go on and on. Fruits are delicious little packages filled with sweet goodness. But just as pre-diabetes, I wouldn't eat donuts in large quantities, I shouldn't have assumed that fruit is safe because it has "natural" sugar. There are so many healthier options to get your daily nutrition requirements in.
Diabetes has increased due to the increase in calorie consumption, which is driving obesity. Additionally, sedentary lifestyle are continously increasing.
If you look at the longest living, healthiest nations with almost no cases of diabetes, they are all very high carb, low animal protein eating nations. They also eat about half the calories and do not have sedentary lifestyles.
Its not the sugar, ita obesity and inactivity. That is recognized by every single major organization when it comes to diabetes.12
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